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Reinhart vs RoR: Who do you value more?


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Poll: Battle of Reinos

Reinhart vs RoR

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#1 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:58 PM

Let us debate
 

Not even a little bit. ROR is closer to Bergeron than he is to Reinhart by a fair amount. Every ounce of underlying stats shows that his production stands to increase as the team gets more talented around him, and even WITH that fact he put up 61 points in the most bizarrely tough usage situation I've ever seen a forward go through. He had more defensive zone starts per game than any player since the stat has been tracked, won more faceoffs than any player in the history of the league, and is ferociously smart and tenacious defensively, while also being our second best offensive player by a large margin. Reinhart's chores on the ice were cake compared to ROR and he still barely crept up to 50 points on the last day of the season. 

People get on ROR's contract while forgetting the cap raising. Matthews is about to get 12 million. Kane just got essentially ROR's deal. Johansen is worse than ROR and signed a year ago for 8 mil a year. That contract is perfect now and is going to be a steal in a year. He's got 5 years left, and his game doesn't rely on speed and physicality, it relies on his brain, which means there's a great chance that he's the exact same player 5 years from now when it ends. If we get our head out of our ass and play him as any great coach would, like the 2nd best offensive piece on an offensively starved team, with a dash of Quenneville-creativity to also make use of his defensive abilities, or like Bergeron with a stacked top line, he could easily be a 70 point Selke winner. He is coaching tweaks from winning the Selke. Reinhart is a disaster at center, and a nice cerebral wing who is coming off of a 50 point career-high season. 

ROR has more value and it isn't really close. 5 years of guaranteed elite two way play and very good offense from the most important position on the ice has more value than potential, especially low-ceiling potential from a 22 year old in the case of Reinhart.

 

Fans have been sold hope based on the kids by bad teams for so long they are blinded by shiny new toys and what players could be.
NHL GMs care about two things: winning the cup and keeping their jobs.

For any contender, of course O’Reilly is better than Reinhart.

I laugh at the Blues fans who are dead-set against trading Robert Thomas for O’Reiily.
Really? Thomas’s ceiling is O’Reilly and there is a fairly decent chance he never hits that.

If he does, it will be four or five years from now, when the window of your Tarasenko/Schwartz/Pietrangelo core is closing.
If I was a Blues fan, I would be salivating at a chance to acquire the player the stature and age of O’Reilly to fill my biggest need without giving up a roster player from my pretty good team.

Wayne Simmonds and Brayden Schenn are very good players and Mike Richards is out of hockey.
The LA Kings do not regret that trade for one second.

 

He's also a lot younger, faster, and could easily become RoR. He's already been more consistent than RoR was at this point in his career. Saying he can't play center and implying he therefore may never will is just a bananas take. Or maybe you weren't implying that, but he's not limited to what you call a cerebral winger
 
Is he better now for a contender? Sure. For a team like us? Reinhart has more value


Edited by WildCard, 12 June 2018 - 12:58 PM.


#2 Doohickie

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:16 PM

Right now?  ROR. 

 

For the future?  Reino.

 

Best value?  Reino.

 

I think they're both good players and I like to think JBot won't trade either of them just to "shake up the core."  If either of them go, I want to be impressed with the return.  Otherwise, hang onto both for the time being.



#3 sabresparaavida

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:19 PM

Who's better: RoR
Who would I be more keen on trading: RoR

#4 Skurk Liger

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:38 PM

Well I do like Reinhart, ROR is the better player.

#5 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:47 PM

Analysis says you value both together: https://www.thescree...n-OReilly-Story



#6 Alkoholist

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 01:57 PM

Right now?  ROR. 

 

For the future?  Reino.

 

Best value?  Reino.

 

I think they're both good players and I like to think JBot won't trade either of them just to "shake up the core."  If either of them go, I want to be impressed with the return.  Otherwise, hang onto both for the time being.

 

+1. You saved me some typing.



#7 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:10 PM

Well I do like Reinhart, ROR is the better player.

Right now sure. But you get to keep one for 5 years, how do you go with?


Who's better: RoR
Who would I be more keen on trading: RoR

Same. I value Reinhart more for our team specifically though



#8 Doohickie

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:35 PM

Right now sure. But you get to keep one for 5 years, how do you go with?

 

False dichotomy.



#9 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:36 PM

False dichotomy.

Pretty sure that doesn't exist in a hypothetical 



#10 Doohickie

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:57 PM

That's usually where it exists.



#11 7+6=13

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:58 PM

ROR and I don't see how it's close.   He has more on ice and trade value.  I could see a scenario that in 3 years Reino could be the better asset if ROR slows down and Reino gets much better.



#12 Skurk Liger

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:58 PM

Right now sure. But you get to keep one for 5 years, how do you go with?

Same. I value Reinhart more for our team specifically though

I'll take both for the next 5 years right now. Team doesn't have enough talent to get rid of 1

#13 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:00 PM

That's usually where it exists.

What?

 

I'll take both for the next 5 years right now. Team doesn't have enough talent to get rid of 1

It's a hypothetical



#14 Doohickie

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:01 PM

We do not accept your hypothesis.



#15 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:08 PM

We do not accept your hypothesis.

Then go to a different thread?



#16 Skurk Liger

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:26 PM

In that scenario, Idk. I can't replace ROR or Reinhart

#17 North Buffalo

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:32 PM

Depends on the return? I am not for throughing out the baby with the bath water... more about developing. If those two are considered good pieces which I think as a developing team they are. Both bring very different things to the table and probably need to think about what happens should one be subtracted. Sabres are not good enough on offense to be subtracting top six talent. Until others step up at their level, Im not for trading either or comparing.

#18 mjd1001

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:36 PM

Reinart more.

 

Younger, cheaper.

 

They are both slow though, both have little transition game, and both rely on the power play for more of their goals/points than a typical NHL player.  Neither are guys I think of as legit top line or great 2nd line guys. But, if I have to choose the one I prefer, it is Reinhart.



#19 nfreeman

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:15 PM

What if you think about the question this way:  Team X offers a really good package for either Reino or ROR, with the Sabres choosing whom to part with?  Which one do you keep?

 

I'd keep ROR, but it's not a slam dunk.



#20 Doohickie

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:40 PM

Then go to a different thread?

 

I'd rather advocate for keeping both players.


Depends on the return? I am not for throughing out the baby with the bath water... more about developing. If those two are considered good pieces which I think as a developing team they are. Both bring very different things to the table and probably need to think about what happens should one be subtracted. Sabres are not good enough on offense to be subtracting top six talent. Until others step up at their level, Im not for trading either or comparing.

 

This.


What if you think about the question this way:  Team X offers a really good package for either Reino or ROR, with the Sabres choosing whom to part with?  Which one do you keep?

 

I'd keep ROR, but it's not a slam dunk.

 

It would depend on what's in the package.  If there's a replacement center or right wing, that will tilt it.  If it's only defense.... don't know.



#21 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:47 PM

Guys I love this place but I feel like this concept really isn't that hard. Like Freeman said you get the same deal for Reinhart or RoR, who do you keep

#22 darksabre

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:53 PM

Guys I love this place but I feel like this concept really isn't that hard. Like Freeman said you get the same deal for Reinhart or RoR, who do you keep


Depends though. ROR is easily worth more than Reinhart. So if someone is offering me the same deal for Reinhart that I would accept for O'Reilly, then I'm obviously trading Reinhart because someone has decided to massively overpay for him.

#23 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:57 PM

Depends though. ROR is easily worth more than Reinhart. So if someone is offering me the same deal for Reinhart that I would accept for O'Reilly, then I'm obviously trading Reinhart because someone has decided to massively overpay for him.

I don't think RoR is necessarily going to fetch you a bigger package. A cap floor team looking for cost controlled youth, like the Hurricanes, would probably prefer Reinhart

#24 darksabre

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:02 PM

I don't think RoR is necessarily going to fetch you a bigger package. A cap floor team looking for cost controlled youth, like the Hurricanes, would probably prefer Reinhart


There's no way anyone is paying for Reinhart what they would pay for O'Reilly. I like Reinhart, but if someone is offering me anywhere close to O'Reilly's return I'm taking that trade and laughing all the way home.

#25 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:05 PM

Fine then let's just say for the sake of it that Gary Bettman says you have to release one guy because I'm Gary Bettman and this is the NHL

#26 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:09 PM

I don't think RoR is necessarily going to fetch you a bigger package. A cap floor team looking for cost controlled youth, like the Hurricanes, would probably prefer Reinhart

In the specific example, though, Carolina would actually prefer ROR probably. After July 1, they owe him 25 mil over 5 years. If Reinhart does eventually become an ROR clone (far from a guarantee) it is almost a certainty that his cap hit and real dollars will end up costing Carolina more by the time it becomes a thing. 



#27 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:09 PM

If we trade ROR we should trade Samson also. They play great together. I’m not sure Samson would be a good fit w Casey or Jack long term.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN, 12 June 2018 - 05:10 PM.


#28 darksabre

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:09 PM

Fine then let's just say for the sake of it that Gary Bettman says you have to release one guy because I'm Gary Bettman and this is the NHL


Oooo interesting.

O'Reilly, purely for salary reasons.

#29 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:11 PM

Oooo interesting.

O'Reilly, purely for salary reasons.

If Sam develops the same impact as ROR he's going to cost more than ROR does



#30 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:11 PM

Oooo interesting.

O'Reilly, purely for salary reasons.


Also we haven’t seen the best of Samson yet and we exactly what ROR is.

#31 darksabre

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:11 PM

If Sam develops the same impact as ROR he's going to cost more than ROR does


Down the road, sure. I'm thinking about right now.

#32 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:12 PM

Down the road, sure. I'm thinking about right now.

Right now I can't imagine preferring Sam on a bridge deal to what ROR brings on his cap hit

Y'all just wait until Phil gets his head out of his ass and/or we finally get enough talent, ROR is going to stay right with Jack in the race to be this team's best player since Drury/Briere if not longer



#33 darksabre

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:14 PM

Right now I can't imagine preferring Sam on a bridge deal to what ROR brings on his cap hit

Y'all just wait until Phil gets his head out of his ass and/or we finally get enough talent, ROR is going to stay right with Jack in the race to be this team's best player since Drury/Briere if not longer


I would just use the salary from being forced to dump ROR to overpay some other center who is faster? It's a weird question.

#34 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:15 PM

I would just use the salary from being forced to dump ROR to overpay some other center who is faster? It's a weird question.

Completely valid, but it pains me so much to toss ROR with how much more he still had to give. 



#35 darksabre

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:16 PM

Completely valid, but it pains me so much to toss ROR with how much more he still had to give.


I agree.

#36 Radar

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:18 PM

Prefer? No contest if just objective observation.......ROR. He is simply the better player at this time. The polls question is much to simple. This is not would you trade one or the other. Who is the better player? ROR hands down. Age,salary etc.are variables but Sam at this point is not close to ROR as a player.

Edited by Radar, 12 June 2018 - 05:22 PM.


#37 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:20 PM

I just imagine what ROR's game looks like if he got to play on ROR's right wing. 

Because I know what lines like 

 

Kane - ROR - Okposo 

 

look like compared to 

Kane - Reinhart - Okposo. 



#38 We've

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:45 PM

One of those two excels at both center and wing.

 

One of those two is widely considered one of the top defensive forwards in the league.

 

One of those two is consistently among the league faceoff leaders.

 

One of those two is regularly selected to represent their country in international play,

 

I don't see how the argument is even close.



#39 EichSnipe

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:47 PM

I’ll take ROR. He’s valauble in all three facets. While I’m left wishing for more ES scoring, his defensive contributions are hard to overlook.

He’s just as productive on the PP as Sam.

He’s our #1 forward on the PK. Sam played all of 56 seconds short handed last year. And ROR doesn’t go to the box ever. He’s always available for the PK.

ROR won more faceoffs than the entire rest of our team combined. Let that sad yet impressive stat sink in.

Hate to say it, but Jack has missed a lot of time. Fingers crossed that two fluke injuries have used up a career’s worth of bad luck and he’s good from here on out. But if my #1 C goes down, I want a #2 C that I’m confident in. That’s ROR.

Oh forgot to mention shootouts- both Sam and ROR suck :P

Edited by EichSnipe, 12 June 2018 - 05:48 PM.


#40 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:27 PM

One of those two excels at both center and wing.

 

One of those two is widely considered one of the top defensive forwards in the league.

 

One of those two is consistently among the league faceoff leaders.

 

One of those two is regularly selected to represent their country in international play,

 

I don't see how the argument is even close.

 

I continue to be flabbergasted by the apparent ease with which people are willing to part with O'Reilly.