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TSN: Sabres 2018 Game Plan


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#161 nfreeman

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:32 AM

It does seem like the bottom 6 forwards and bottom 2 D this year should be largely comprised of youth with speed and upside instead of retreads and journeymen.

 

They just need a few of them to flower, plus goaltending, coaching and maturity.



#162 ubkev

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:33 AM

I’m not sure if some of the older guys still qualify for the rookie tournament, but our prospect depth looks surprisingly ripe with guys who might be ready to make the jump this year. Competition from this group bodes well for improving the bottom half of our roster and call-up situation, if we can acquire a couple real NHLers to boost the middle.

Bailey Mittelstadt Baptiste
Nylander Asplund Olafsson
Smith O’Regan Fasching
Pu Malone Oglevie
Guhle Dahlin
Pilut Nelson
Borgen
Ullmark

How many spots should Botterill be leaving open for this group?


None? Force them to kick the door down and announce that they are taking a roster spot with excellent play. If they don't, they can stay in Rochester for a minute, then go elsewhere.

#163 dudacek

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:36 AM

5



Sounds about right to me. Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Ullmark should grab 3, leaving a bloody free-for-all for the last two spots.

None? Force them to kick the door down and announce that they are taking a roster spot with excellent play. If they don't, they can stay in Rochester for a minute, then go elsewhere.

So sign another handful of Pouliots, instead of just letting them fight it out amongst themselves?
I think there is something to be said for dangling a carrot.

Edited by dudacek, 12 June 2018 - 10:37 AM.


#164 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:14 AM

It does seem like the bottom 6 forwards and bottom 2 D this year should be largely comprised of youth with speed and upside instead of retreads and journeymen.
 
They just need a few of them to flower, plus goaltending, coaching and maturity.


..... and that is a huge step forward IMHO.

#165 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:36 AM

Sounds about right to me. Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Ullmark should grab 3, leaving a bloody free-for-all for the last two spots.

So sign another handful of Pouliots, instead of just letting them fight it out amongst themselves?
I think there is something to be said for dangling a carrot.

Yes but instead of signing Pouliot, sign Riley Nash or Derek Ryan!


Edited by Randall Flagg, 12 June 2018 - 11:36 AM.


#166 Alkoholist

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 11:50 AM

Sounds about right to me. Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Ullmark should grab 3, leaving a bloody free-for-all for the last two spots.

So sign another handful of Pouliots, instead of just letting them fight it out amongst themselves?
I think there is something to be said for dangling a carrot.

 

I'd like to sign/trade for someone to play LW who is better than Rodriguez but I'd be perfectly fine with leaving a few spots in the bottom 6 open for some of the young guys to compete and see if anyone is capable to playing well enough to earn it over the others.



#167 Randall Flagg

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:34 PM

Looking at our LWs, I don't see how Olofsson isn't in the NHL this year, at least without having a dreadful camp that makes us regret using an ELC on him. 



#168 dudacek

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 12:46 PM

Looking at our LWs, I don't see how Olofsson isn't in the NHL this year, at least without having a dreadful camp that makes us regret using an ELC on him.


You think there will still be room after Botterill acquires Lucic and Pacioretty?

#169 ubkev

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:04 PM

So sign another handful of Pouliots, instead of just letting them fight it out amongst themselves?
I think there is something to be said for dangling a carrot.


Pouliots are replaceable and expendable when prospects supplant them. Either they win a spot out of camp or they play their way into full time after an injury. But I don't really believe in saving spots for pretty much any of them.

#170 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:04 PM

You think there will still be room after Botterill acquires Lucic and Pacioretty?


Thank you TM.

#171 Thorny

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 06:58 PM

I’m not sure if some of the older guys still qualify for the pre-camp rookie tournament, but our prospect depth looks surprisingly ripe with guys who might be ready to make the jump this year. Competition from this group bodes well for improving the bottom half of our roster and call-up situation, if we can acquire a couple real NHLers to boost the middle.
Bailey Mittelstadt Baptiste
Nylander Asplund Olafsson
Smith O’Regan Fasching
Pu Malone Oglevie
Guhle Dahlin
Pilut Nelson
Borgen
Ullmark
How many spots should Botterill be leaving open for this group?

 

Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Ullmark are already pencilled in. I wouldn’t be opposed to 1 spot at forward, and 1 spot on D being “left open” for competition, carrot purposes, but..

Yes but instead of signing Pouliot, sign Riley Nash or Derek Ryan!


This. I’d first and foremost be looking at any immediate upgrades available at a reasonable cost for any open position. The more young players that have to FORCE their way onto the roster, the better. Plus, the Sabres are seemingly always near the top of the man games lost list. Gotta expect injuries. There will be opportunity.

X - Eichel - Reinhart
X - O’Reilly - Okposo
X - Mittelstadt - Pominville
X - Larsson - X

Scandella - Ristolainen
Dahlin - X
McCabe - Bogosian

Ullmark
X

Not saying these will be the lines necessarily, but I think the players listed are either accurately slotted based on talent (Centre core, Reinhart, the Defence, hopefully Ullmark) or slotted in a likely spot, arguably unfortunately, based on Vet status/contract, at least to start the season (Okposo, Pominville).

The rest of those spots are up for grabs. I think we can expect Rodrigues and Wilson to likely seize two of the LW spots, leaving two still open. Those 2 spots could be seized by youth (Smith? Olofsson?) or by Girgensons, but the priority should be acquisitions if possible (precluding ROR or CM isn’t shifted to LW) that would represent true upgrades at the LW position, particularly when we are so lacking at legit top 6 LW. Make the kids force their way in, if both spots are filled, or at least if only one of the spots is filled, it increases the likelihood the open spot is filled through competition. Same deal with the open RW spot.

We need to add a RHD, particularly if Dahlin ends up playing the left side. But I’d argue either way. Or else we could be counting on Nelson and Bogosian to account for two-thirds of our RHD. Hard pass.

And we need a vet GT to push Ullmark.

#172 dudacek

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:19 PM

I think people might be missing a nuance to what I'm saying.

I want veteran additions. I just want them to be more middle-six, second-pair Scandella level than Pouliot level.

 

 

I don't want the prospects handed jobs.

I want the kids battling with Rodrigues, Larsson, Pominville, Wilson and Girgensons for the last seven forward spots.

But if we can't acquire some real NHL forwards, I'd rather have the likes of Baptiste and Bailey battling with Olafsson and Smith for the last couple spots than with retread veterans like Pouliot, Nolan or Josefsen.


Edited by dudacek, 12 June 2018 - 07:21 PM.


#173 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:46 PM

None? Force them to kick the door down and announce that they are taking a roster spot with excellent play. If they don't, they can stay in Rochester for a minute, then go elsewhere.

 

 

Pouliots are replaceable and expendable when prospects supplant them. Either they win a spot out of camp or they play their way into full time after an injury. But I don't really believe in saving spots for pretty much any of them.

 

If Vegas has taught us anything, it should be that there's value in providing an opportunity to players who haven't "earned it" in the traditional sense. Maybe Baptiste et al. ultimately flop and don't belong in the NHL, but for a team that finished in last place, there isn't a single good reason to not give them a shot.



#174 Thorny

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:56 PM

I think people might be missing a nuance to what I'm saying.
I want veteran additions. I just want them to be more middle-six, second-pair Scandella level than Pouliot level.
 
 
I don't want the prospects handed jobs.
I want the kids battling with Rodrigues, Larsson, Pominville, Wilson and Girgensons for the last seven forward spots.
But if we can't acquire some real NHL forwards, I'd rather have the likes of Baptiste and Bailey battling with Olafsson and Smith for the last couple spots than with retread veterans like Pouliot, Nolan or Josefsen.


It’ll be interesting to see what Botterill does, in the sense that, he did go the retread veteran route last offseason. Hopefully he saw enough last season to realize it’s not the way to go this season, whether they can bring in legit outside talent or not.

#175 We've

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 07:56 PM

If Vegas has taught us anything, it should be that there's value in providing an opportunity to players who haven't "earned it" in the traditional sense. Maybe Baptiste et al. ultimately flop and don't belong in the NHL, but for a team that finished in last place, there isn't a single good reason to not give them a shot.

 

Here's one.  They weren't good enough on a last place team.  Aim higher.



#176 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:00 PM

Here's one.  They weren't good enough on a last place team.  Aim higher.

 

So find me clear upgrades as alternatives. My point was that "Josefson looked 2% better in camp so he gets the spot since he's earned it with his career" is the worst. Obviously we want better vets than Josefson brought in, but if that's what we're left with when camp opens, it should be the vet plug who has to earn the spot. That's the point I was trying (perhaps ineffectively) to make.



#177 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:00 PM

Here's one. They weren't good enough on a last place team. Aim higher.

Agreed. I'm completely done with Bailey

#178 dudacek

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:07 PM

Here's one.  They weren't good enough on a last place team.  Aim higher.

 

Except they were.

Nelson was better than Beaulieu.

Bailey was better than Pouliot

Rodrigues was better than Josefsson

Baptiste was better than Nolan

 

What Ubkev wants is already happening.


So find me clear upgrades as alternatives. My point was that "Josefson looked 2% better in camp so he gets the spot since he's earned it with his career" is the worst. Obviously we want better vets than Josefson brought in, but if that's what we're left with when camp opens, it should be the vet plug who has to earn the spot. That's the point I was trying (perhaps ineffectively) to make.

 

This



#179 We've

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:16 PM

So find me clear upgrades as alternatives. My point was that "Josefson looked 2% better in camp so he gets the spot since he's earned it with his career" is the worst. Obviously we want better vets than Josefson brought in, but if that's what we're left with when camp opens, it should be the vet plug who has to earn the spot. That's the point I was trying (perhaps ineffectively) to make.

 

If we are in win now mode (and we should be) any incremental improvement should be used.  If that means the vet that is 2% better than the AAAA guy gets the ice time, so be it.

 

Granted, I don't have any faith in the Amerks group from last season.  If we're talking young players with real promise (Guhle and really noone else), your argument wins.


Edited by We've, 12 June 2018 - 08:17 PM.


#180 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:17 PM

If we are in win now mode (and we should be) an incremental improvement should be used. If that means the vet that is 2% better than the AAAA guy gets the ice time, so be it.

Granted, I don't have any faith in the Amerks group from last season. If we're talking young players with real promise (Guhle and really noone else), your argument wins.

Guhle, Ulmark, Smith, O'Reagan...

#181 We've

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:20 PM

Guhle, Ulmark, Smith, O'Reagan...

 

One, and a hopefully because we need the goalie to be good.  the last two are hope and a prayer.



#182 Thorny

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:23 PM

Guhle, Ulmark, Smith, O'Reagan...


I have higher hopes for Olofsson than either of Smith or O’Regan.

Edit: We should put together a prospect ranking, like Tank used to do.

Edited by Thorny, 12 June 2018 - 08:23 PM.


#183 Skurk Liger

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:45 PM

I miss Hoss/Tank