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Grading Tim Murray's Job


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#1 bob_sauve28

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:07 PM

I have to give him a D. The only thing that keeps it out of the F zone is Samson and Jack, though we only have them because we sucked so bad.

We are still dead last place.

His trades did not work out. Was he responsible for trading Brayden McNabb??

He hit on no second or third round surprises of note. Where is our Pasternak?

Lehner

#2 pi2000

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:10 PM

A+

He did what he was instructed to do.

#3 Randall Flagg

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:19 PM

I have to give him a D. The only thing that keeps it out of the F zone is Samson and Jack, though we only have them because we sucked so bad.

We are still dead last place.

His trades did not work out. Was he responsible for trading Brayden McNabb??

He hit on no second or third round surprises of note. Where is our Pasternak?

Lehner

Even though I like Samson, Murray had the 2nd pick and the choice of first forward in the draft, and so far there are at least 5 (Ehlers, Nylander, Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Point, maybe Larkin, maybe Arvidsson (2 30G, 60 point campaigns now)) forwards who have performed better to date/are better players right now. I don't count that among Murray's "successes" even though I am not upset with the pick and it was a completely safe/reasonable selection. 

I don't think it was an abject failure of a pick yet either. But he doesn't get my cheerleading for it.



#4 We've

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:39 PM

Strange thread given we are a full season out from his release. 

 

A+

He did what he was instructed to do.

 

Unfortunately, this is likely accurate.  Too bad the ghosts of that duty are still with us.

 

Even though I like Samson, Murray had the 2nd pick and the choice of first forward in the draft, and so far there are at least 5 (Ehlers, Nylander, Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Point, maybe Larkin, maybe Arvidsson (2 30G, 60 point campaigns now)) forwards who have performed better to date/are better players right now. I don't count that among Murray's "successes" even though I am not upset with the pick and it was a completely safe/reasonable selection. 

I don't think it was an abject failure of a pick yet either. But he doesn't get my cheerleading for it.

 

Very reasonable take IMO.  I certainly can't give him much credit for selecting a player that was on many lists as the #2 overall and then doing it again the following season with the consensus #2 overall.  Had he hit at least a double on a player that wasn't on anyone's board at that spot, it would be a noteworthy achievement.  Has he even hit any singles?



#5 Radar

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:42 PM

A+
He did what he was instructed to do.

By who? Then why was he fired? I'm assuming the A+ is a bit of sarcasm toward the organization. I don't believe for a minute he was "instructed" to make all his moves although I have no problems with the idea no one opposed them either.

#6 pastajoe

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:42 PM

Even though I like Samson, Murray had the 2nd pick and the choice of first forward in the draft, and so far there are at least 5 (Ehlers, Nylander, Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Point, maybe Larkin, maybe Arvidsson (2 30G, 60 point campaigns now)) forwards who have performed better to date/are better players right now. I don't count that among Murray's "successes" even though I am not upset with the pick and it was a completely safe/reasonable selection.

I don't think it was an abject failure of a pick yet either. But he doesn't get my cheerleading for it.


Reinhart and Bennett were the consensus top forwards in the draft. So Murray didn’t deviate from the norm by picking Reinhart, it’s what most GMs in that spot would have done.

Most fans liked the ROR and Kane trades. Myers, Stafford, and Gregorinko were failing in Buffalo. The tank to get McDavid or Eichel was a success. And there are some drafted players that will be contributing in the next couple of years.

The trades of Lehner, Psyek, and ignoring Rochester were things I didn’t like.

But I loved GMTMs interviews, it was refreshing to have a GM who said what he thought after years of Darcy. “Slap him on the pee pee”.

So overall I give GMTM a C. Some of the players he acquired haven’t played to their potential, but that could be said about those he traded away.

#7 Randall Flagg

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 03:09 PM

Reinhart and Bennett were the consensus top forwards in the draft. So Murray didn’t deviate from the norm by picking Reinhart, it’s what most GMs in that spot would have done.
 

Right, that is what I meant to imply. I don't think he should get a plus for making the easy/safe choice and then having 5 guys behind that choice become better. But I don't give him a minus for it either. 

So in bobsauve's list of things that keep Murray out of the "f zone", I would remove Samson, but I wouldn't put drafting Samson in his list of failures either. That's all I meant to say.



#8 Wyldnwoody44

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 03:25 PM

He hired Bylsma, who sucked.... That downgrades him to a D

#9 Skurk Liger

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 03:31 PM

I have to give him a D. The only thing that keeps it out of the F zone is Samson and Jack, though we only have them because we sucked so bad.

We are still dead last place.

His trades did not work out. Was he responsible for trading Brayden McNabb??

He hit on no second or third round surprises of note. Where is our Pasternak?

Lehner

You can't grade Murray's late round draft picks yet because there hasn't been enough time. This is a recording.

Murray sucked and I'm glad he's gone.

#10 darksabre

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 04:04 PM

You can't grade Murray's late round draft picks yet because there hasn't been enough time. This is a recording.

Murray sucked and I'm glad he's gone.


Yup.
I should also note that Murray was probably an okay talent evaluator, but a bad GM.

#11 SwampD

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 04:29 PM

Our team was so broken and run so poorly for so long that we think 2nd and 3rd rounders are busts because they aren't playing in the NHL only two years after being drafted.

If we were run properly, this would have/should have been Grigorenko and Zadorov's first year playing for the big club.

#12 Skurk Liger

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:13 PM

Agree with both of you. A 3rd round or later pick probably won't be nhl ready till about age 22. So that's 4 years post draft. That's the minimum. Some you can expect 2 more years of juniors. 3 years of AHL. Or 2 years of college 2 AHL.

#13 Jacque Richard

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:21 PM

Friggin F

#14 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:41 PM

Is there a grade below F.  He is the worst GM is Sabres history.  He has no idea how to manage the cap, manage assets such as picks and prospects, build a roster or manage people.  His drafting was mediocre at best, his trades awful and FA signings nearly as bad.  His strategy to accelerate the rebuild was ill conceived, ill advised and poorly executed.  He destroyed the farm system and ignored the Amerks.  He clearly didn't do what he was hired to do.

 

Isn't it fun many of guys TM traded away because they weren't need here playing in the playoffs.

McNabb LV (after winning 2 Cups in LA)

Armia, Myers and Roslovic (1st rd pick we traded to Wpg) in Wpg

Zadorov and Compher for the Avs.


Edited by GASabresIUFAN, 15 April 2018 - 08:51 PM.


#15 PerreaultForever

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:39 PM

Is there a grade below F.  He is the worst GM is Sabres history.  

Yup. 



#16 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:49 AM

Yup. 

Can you imagine our D if we had just kept the guys we drafted and developed?

 

Risto Zadorov

Myers McCabe

Pysyk McNabb

Nelson Guhle

 

Now think about our D if a competent GM had drafted Sergachev instead of Nylander?  or maybe had TM allowed the team to develop more slowly, maybe we'd have had a top 4 pick in 2016 maybe Laine, Dubois, or Matt Tkachuk would be Sabres.  Add that guy to the defense we should have kept, with the 2 1st rd picks we gave away and we'd be a playoff team this season. 


Edited by GASabresIUFAN, 16 April 2018 - 12:55 AM.


#17 PotentPowerPlay22

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:56 AM

You can't grade Murray's late round draft picks yet because there hasn't been enough time. This is a recording.

Murray sucked and I'm glad he's gone.

He was an arrogant miserable sour puss who thought he was a genius. He squandered all the draft capital that Darcy Regier acquired before him. He overpaid on virtually every trade. He doesn't deserve any credit for drafting Jack Eichel since that was obvious. He gave up a 1st round choice for Lehner which was atrocious. Mark Pysyk was traded for a useless bag of pucks. The team and organization is worse off because of him. And by the way, the team is still in last place.

 

His grade is clearly an "F"


Edited by PotentPowerPlay22, 16 April 2018 - 12:58 AM.


#18 LikeEich

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:17 AM

Reinhart and Bennett were the consensus top forwards in the draft. So Murray didn’t deviate from the norm by picking Reinhart, it’s what most GMs in that spot would have done.

Most fans liked the ROR and Kane trades. Myers, Stafford, and Gregorinko were failing in Buffalo. The tank to get McDavid or Eichel was a success. And there are some drafted players that will be contributing in the next couple of years.

The trades of Lehner, Psyek, and ignoring Rochester were things I didn’t like.

But I loved GMTMs interviews, it was refreshing to have a GM who said what he thought after years of Darcy. “Slap him on the pee pee”.

So overall I give GMTM a C. Some of the players he acquired haven’t played to their potential, but that could be said about those he traded away.


That Kane trade was one of the worst trades in the history of the NHL

#19 Wyldnwoody44

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:49 AM

That Kane trade was one of the worst trades in the history of the NHL


Erat.... Forsberg, was maybe the worst trade ever

#20 nucci

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:04 AM

Look at all the ex-Sabres playing well in the playoffs...



#21 Wyldnwoody44

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:11 AM

I hate the argument of ex sabres in thr playoffs..... How many of those guys are driving their team, let alone their own line..... They get to be passengers on a good team (granted they bring a decent supplemental role) but they are slotted where they should be, 3rd/4th line mainly

#22 Cage

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:49 AM

Can you imagine our D if we had just kept the guys we drafted and developed?

 

Risto Zadorov

Myers McCabe

Pysyk McNabb

Nelson Guhle

 

Now think about our D if a competent GM had drafted Sergachev instead of Nylander?  or maybe had TM allowed the team to develop more slowly, maybe we'd have had a top 4 pick in 2016 maybe Laine, Dubois, or Matt Tkachuk would be Sabres.  Add that guy to the defense we should have kept, with the 2 1st rd picks we gave away and we'd be a playoff team this season. 

 

Now that's a depressing post.....



#23 oregelbundet oregelbunden

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:34 AM

A+

He did what he was instructed to do.

Maybe it was what he was instructed to do, but the botched execution is well documented. What a slap in the face after Darcy screwed the pooch. The two of them combined in back to back administrations has left JBots with a huge hole(s) to fill. More than a couple of people are already calling for his head, or at least the head of his coach, after less than a year. At this point it's Go Amerks!!! and lets see a few of those young guys force their way onto the Sabres' roster next October.



#24 PASabreFan

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:52 AM

So terrible. It's so obvious. Show of hands, who wanted him fired?



#25 North Buffalo

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:56 AM

Me, think he and his hockey trade sense was stupid. His first round trades and evals including Nylander and even Sam though it may turn out ok were less than stellar and on top of which he was a drunken arrogant jerk.

#26 R_Dudley

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:02 AM

Yes my vote was Fire Him. And grade is F, for all the reasons mentioned here.



#27 bob_sauve28

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:12 AM

Is there a grade below F.  He is the worst GM is Sabres history.  He has no idea how to manage the cap, manage assets such as picks and prospects, build a roster or manage people.  His drafting was mediocre at best, his trades awful and FA signings nearly as bad.  His strategy to accelerate the rebuild was ill conceived, ill advised and poorly executed.  He destroyed the farm system and ignored the Amerks.  He clearly didn't do what he was hired to do.

 

Isn't it fun many of guys TM traded away because they weren't need here playing in the playoffs.

McNabb LV (after winning 2 Cups in LA)

Armia, Myers and Roslovic (1st rd pick we traded to Wpg) in Wpg

Zadorov and Compher for the Avs.

Instant gratification hockey. I see Myers was hurt again last night, though.

 

McNabb just has me still scratching my head. If I was a GM I'd have a rule that you never trade good defenseman because they are just impossible to replace, but that's just me. 

 

Is Chad Rueedal on the list, or did he just walk away with free agency? 



#28 North Buffalo

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:22 AM

Instant gratification hockey. I see Myers was hurt again last night, though.
 
McNabb just has me still scratching my head. If I was a GM I'd have a rule that you never trade good defenseman because they are just impossible to replace, but that's just me. 
 
Is Chad Rueedal on the list, or did he just walk away with free agency?

Maybe hurt but myers has two goals in 3 games.

#29 Skurk Liger

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:36 AM

 

 

McNabb LV (after winning 2 Cups in LA)

Armia, Myers and Roslovic BROCK BOESER (1st rd pick we traded to Wpg) in Wpg

Zadorov and Compher for the Avs.

FTFY



#30 SwampD

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:40 AM


McNabb LV (after winning 2 Cups in LA)

more fixing



#31 Georgia Blizzard

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:41 AM

F.

With the possibility of a D if somehow his three draft classes pan out.



#32 bunomatic

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:52 AM

All this alternate dimension stuff is too much. I'm not supporting GMTM but had Hitler won the war we'd all be speaking German. You can go back on any team in the league in hindsight and find players they could have drafted but didn't. As Georgia Blizzard says wait till his drafts either come through or don't. As for the trades they are easier to actually grade. I give him a D- as a G.M.

 

Really. Who doesn't communicate with his coach ? 



#33 Gramps

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:53 AM

The fact he's not working in the same capacity in another NHL city tells me his what his grade should be.



#34 NNYSABRESMAN

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:22 AM

D

 

 His first 2 drafts the 1st round picks we're pretty much no brainers. His trades for the period of time in which they we're made sense. other than the McNabb, Lehner and Pysyk trades which were lousy. The contracts That He gave to O'Reilly and Okposo were for to much money especially O'Reilly's

 

 Maybe the Best intuitive signing he made was Rodriguez.



#35 (E5)

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:26 AM

By who? Then why was he fired? I'm assuming the A+ is a bit of sarcasm toward the organization. I don't believe for a minute he was "instructed" to make all his moves although I have no problems with the idea no one opposed them either.

 

 

Brandon



#36 Alkoholist

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:30 AM

D

 

 His first 2 drafts the 1st round picks we're pretty much no brainers. His trades for the period of time in which they we're made sense. other than the McNabb, Lehner and Pysyk trades which were lousy. The contracts That He gave to O'Reilly and Okposo were for to much money especially O'Reilly's

 

 Maybe the Best intuitive signing he made was Rodriguez.

 

The Moulson contract was by far the worst one. It should have been a 3 year deal even if he had to pay the guy $7 million per year to get him to sign.



#37 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:34 AM

The fact he's not working in the same capacity in another NHL city tells me his what his grade should be.


Hey Gramps, where do u live in Georgia?

#38 pastajoe

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:44 AM

Instant gratification hockey. I see Myers was hurt again last night, though.

McNabb just has me still scratching my head. If I was a GM I'd have a rule that you never trade good defenseman because they are just impossible to replace, but that's just me.

Is Chad Rueedal on the list, or did he just walk away with free agency?


None of the players traded away have been significant contributors to their teams, compared to ROR and Kane with the Sabres.

McNabb had trouble breaking into the Sabres lineup before the trade, which was for Fasching and Deslaurier, and an exchange of draft picks.

Ruewedal signed with the Pens on a two-way contract as a free agent and started in the AHL before being called up due to injuries.

#39 North Buffalo

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:22 AM

None of the players traded away have been significant contributors to their teams, compared to ROR and Kane with the Sabres.
McNabb had trouble breaking into the Sabres lineup before the trade, which was for Fasching and Deslaurier, and an exchange of draft picks.
Ruewedal signed with the Pens on a two-way contract as a free agent and started in the AHL before being called up due to injuries.

Yeh but he showed signs of developing. Sabres if they didnt make trades could have a monster back line with skaters... hindsight yadda yadda. McNabb, Zadorov, Myers and Risto with Scandella and Ghule, No OReilly, yes that would be a big issue at center, but all the firsts traded away, they could have another young center, a goalie and wingers and traded one of them for a center when they became more valuable. Sabres have been buying high and selling low for years. Between Darcy and TM management has stunk giving away good D just saying JBots plans on developing players good!

Edited by North Buffalo, 16 April 2018 - 11:24 AM.


#40 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:24 AM

McNabb had trouble breaking into the Sabres lineup before the trade, which was for Fasching and Deslaurier, and an exchange of draft picks.


Your first statement is simply wrong, Myers plays 20+ minutes and is a key figure on their PP. Armia anchors their 3rd line. Zadorov plays in their top 4 D and over 20 minutes a night.

As to the McNabb trade you are completely wrong. http://www.thehockey...-shuffle-roster

We gave up McNabb, Parker and 2 2nd rd picks for Fasching (a former 4th rd pick) and Delo (a former 3rd rd pick). The 2 picks given back to LA were the 2 picks LA gave us for Robyn Regher. We have since moved Delo to Montreal for AHLer Redmond. This was a terrible trade then and now that Fasching is looking like a career AHLer, it looking even worse.