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The Laundry List: The Sabres Problems


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#1 Skurk Liger

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:40 AM

http://www.sportsnet...s-nhl-basement/

 

Hey PA, you might want to get in here.  The first thing on the list is "Kim Pegula does the firing."



#2 Brawndo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:22 AM

I maybe in the minority here, but I cannot find too much to argue with in this article.

Kim Pegula is a co owner, if they decided she will be the one to inform people their services are no longer required so be it.

#3 Marvelo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:42 AM

The self-described "Black Widow" is definitely someone I wouldn't want on my team. It sounds like she creates tension and takes pride in firing personnel. I fhink "most powerful woman in sports" moniker that has been bestowed on her by a couple media outlets (what has she done to deserve it?) has gone to her head.



#4 SwampD

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:46 AM

So, I'm confused here. What's his issue with Kim. Is it because she makes people who suck nervous that they may get fired? Or is it just that fact that she a woman. Would the Sabres be better if Terry did the firing, or Russ because they are men?

 

The rest, sure, but his first point is kinda stupid.



#5 Skurk Liger

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:48 AM

The self-described "Black Widow" is definitely someone I wouldn't want on my team. It sounds like she creates tension and takes pride in firing personnel. I fhink "most powerful woman in sports" moniker that has been bestowed on her by a couple media outlets (what has she done to deserve it?) has gone to her head.

She owns the team. That's what she's done to deserve it. 


So, I'm confused here. What's his issue with Kim. Is it because she makes people who suck nervous that they may get fired? Or is it just that fact that she a woman. Would the Sabres be better if Terry did the firing, or Russ because they are men?

 

The rest, sure, but his first point is kinda stupid.

It is all about her being a woman.  That is what this entire thing has always been about. A powerful woman, exerting that power on men. She "didn't earn it".  



#6 LTS

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:24 AM

This thread is a microsecond away from devolving into a litany of narratives that define the 201x years.

 

The biggest issue everyone SHOULD focus on here is that the locker room is toxic.



#7 PASabreFan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:51 AM

Has anyone heard the rumor about why Murray really got fired?



#8 ubkev

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:01 AM

This thread is a microsecond away from devolving into a litany of narratives that define the 201x years.

The biggest issue everyone SHOULD focus on here is that the locker room is toxic.

Word! I don't care who gives out the walking papers. I care that the team sucks every year. Her being the one who fires people is not a concern of mine.

Edited by ubkev, 23 January 2018 - 11:05 AM.


#9 PASabreFan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:05 AM

http://www.sportsnet...s-nhl-basement/

 

Hey PA, you might want to get in here.  The first thing on the list is "Kim Pegula does the firing."

I guess it depends who she is firing. In my idealistic view of ownership, she'd fire the GM only, not the coach, scouts etc. Otherwise she'd stay in her lane. Terry too. Because they really know nothing about running a hockey team. They never earned the right to do such a thing. She was lucky enough to serve a young Terry at a restaurant in Olean and he liked her. And then he won the lottery with his business. They're not qualified hockey people. Still -- again -- owners do get to decide who runs their team for them.


Word! I don't care who gives out the walking papers. I care that the team sucks every year. Her being the one who fores people is not a concern of mine.

It's a hornets nest, and, yes, sexism is going to play a part in it in the world of hockey. Putting that aside, as GM, would you be happy about Kim firing your staff?



#10 ubkev

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:11 AM

I guess it depends who she is firing. In my idealistic view of ownership, she'd fire the GM only, not the coach, scouts etc. Otherwise she'd stay in her lane. Terry too. Because they really know nothing about running a hockey team. They never earned the right to do such a thing. She was lucky enough to serve a young Terry at a restaurant in Olean and he liked her. And then he won the lottery with his business. They're not qualified hockey people. Still -- again -- owners do get to decide who runs their team for them.

It's a hornets nest, and, yes, sexism is going to play a part in it in the world of hockey. Putting that aside, as GM, would you be happy about Kim firing your staff?


With the position I work in now, I do the interviews, the auditions, I get to say who gets hired. I also do the firing (it sucks). I also have a boss. A female boss. We disagree on a great many things. Sometimes we are quite vocal about it. But when it comes down to it, my employees do what I say. And I do what she says. If she says she's sick of John Doe's sh!t and he's gotta go, then it's done. Doesn't matter if I like it. She's my boss and I do what I'm told if I want to continue paying my mortgage.

(Really, it's not a bad setup I have. I'm sure I just made it sound horrible.) Bottom line is, do what your boss tells ya and life is pretty easy.

#11 Jacque Richard

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:24 AM

Another worthless piece of trash here. Who do they talk to there. I should talk to my buddy over there who is the chief engineer there

Edited by Jacque Richard, 23 January 2018 - 11:25 AM.


#12 Eleven

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:31 AM

Has anyone heard the rumor about why Murray really got fired?

 

Someone alluded to it a couple of weeks ago, and we discussed it pretty heavily when it happened, so the rumor is that he called Kim a nasty word beginning with C and rhyming with something Doug Marrone likes to do on fourth and short.


Edited by Eleven, 23 January 2018 - 11:31 AM.


#13 josie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:31 AM

 


It's a hornets nest, and, yes, sexism is going to play a part in it in the world of hockey. Putting that aside, as GM, would you be happy about Kim firing your staff?

I don't know how much of it is sexism and how much of it is the spectre of dual leadership over one strong figurehead. Yes, sexism plays into it, as out of two people, she's seen as the weaker, less informed one. Maybe she is just as in the sh!t or more than other "in charge" people. She's never strapped on hockey skates and taken a shift, but has Terry? He assistant coached a Mites team, but was described as a "fish out of water" on skates . I dunno, I don't know the history as well as most of you. I'm probably missing a huge glaring detail, and I apologize for it. 

 

I think what's more telling about that first paragraph is the fearful atmosphere- the walking on eggshells. How could there not be, after the last few years? That ties in with your locker rooms, your marketing gaffes, your whole losing culture persona. 



#14 PASabreFan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:39 AM

With the position I work in now, I do the interviews, the auditions, I get to say who gets hired. I also do the firing (it sucks). I also have a boss. A female boss. We disagree on a great many things. Sometimes we are quite vocal about it. But when it comes down to it, my employees do what I say. And I do what she says. If she says she's sick of John Doe's sh!t and he's gotta go, then it's done. Doesn't matter if I like it. She's my boss and I do what I'm told if I want to continue paying my mortgage.

(Really, it's not a bad setup I have. I'm sure I just made it sound horrible.) Bottom line is, do what your boss tells ya and life is pretty easy.

Would you say your boss is more qualified/experienced/educated/knowledgeable than you in your field?


I don't know how much of it is sexism and how much of it is the spectre of dual leadership over one strong figurehead. Yes, sexism plays into it, as out of two people, she's seen as the weaker, less informed one. Maybe she is just as in the sh!t or more than other "in charge" people. She's never strapped on hockey skates and taken a shift, but has Terry? He assistant coached a Mites team, but was described as a "fish out of water" on skates . I dunno, I don't know the history as well as most of you. I'm probably missing a huge glaring detail, and I apologize for it. 

 

I think what's more telling about that first paragraph is the fearful atmosphere- the walking on eggshells. How could there not be, after the last few years? That ties in with your locker rooms, your marketing gaffes, your whole losing culture persona. 

The idea that she calls herself the Black Widow is a problem.



#15 That Aud Smell

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:41 AM

I thought the topic was more of a "hey - what's our laundry list" - not a hot take type article.

 

Items 1-3 on my laundry list: Speed/quickness. The team lacks the same.

 

Someone alluded to it a couple of weeks ago, and we discussed it pretty heavily when it happened, so the rumor is that he called Kim a nasty word beginning with C and rhyming with something Doug Marrone likes to do on fourth and short.

 

JFC. See ya , FGMTM.


The idea that she calls herself the Black Widow is a problem.

 

Why? (I'm not saying it is not a problem (or less than good), but am wondering about your take.)


Edited by That Aud Smell, 23 January 2018 - 11:42 AM.


#16 josie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

 


The idea that she calls herself the Black Widow is a problem.

Yeah... that's f*ked up if she's actually proud of that. Not empowering, just sh!tty. Course, could be someone heard her frustrated/jokingly say it and it got blown out of proportion. That never happens in frustrated atmospheres! 



#17 PASabreFan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:48 AM

Yeah... that's f*ked up if she's actually proud of that. Not empowering, just sh!tty. Course, could be someone heard her frustrated/jokingly say it and it got blown out of proportion. That never happens in frustrated atmospheres! 

Here's the nfl.com quote.

 

 

The night before the Oct. 30 rematch, as she dined at a quaint downtown Buffalo restaurant, Pegula jokingly referred to herself as "The Black Widow," a nickname she said she picked up after pink-slipping various Sabres and Bills employees shortly after taking over those franchises. "It's part of running a business," she said, raising both palms for emphasis. It was hard to tell whether the nickname bothered her or not; the smart money was on the latter.



#18 ubkev

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:53 AM

Would you say your boss is more qualified/experienced/educated/knowledgeable than you in your field?


More...
No, yes, no, meh
Equally qualified in certain aspects, her more so in some and me more so in others. Pretty good tandem, actually.

#19 That Aud Smell

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:54 AM

Ugh. 

 

I've come to conclude that it really is a mixed bag with the Pegulas. So I just look around the other major sports leagues and comfort myself knowing that our city's pro sports ownership situation could be worse (maybe even a lot worse).

 

The thing I wanted to touch on: If the interview had been with a man and he was joking that he'd been given the nickname "Atilla the Hun" because he'd walked around the offices, figuratively lopping off heads, it'd be an equally bad thing. 



#20 ubkev

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:57 AM

Ugh.

I've come to conclude that it really is a mixed bag with the Pegulas. So I just look around the other major sports leagues and comfort myself knowing that our city's pro sports ownership situation could be worse (maybe even a lot worse).

The thing I wanted to touch on: If the interview had been with a man and he was joking that he'd been given the nickname "Atilla the Hun" because he'd walked around the offices, figuratively lopping off heads, it'd be an equally bad thing.


Dan Snyder?
The Marlins?
The Pirates?

Sure, could be worse. But we still suck, ya know? Yeah, they all suck with terrible owners, but we suck too.

#21 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:27 PM

I take most articles written by Toronto based journalists regarding the Sabres with a grain of salt. They are so quick in their praise of the Leafs and just as quick to bash on the Sabres. Considering the Leafs utter futility since 1967, maybe they should focus more on the Leafs lack of success then ours.

That said lets address this article.
1) Kim - It’s her team and she wants desperately to field winners. So far so good with the Bills. I also think she got it right this time with Sabres. I take heart when I look at the mess in Colorado and their one year turnaround. I think the same is possible here.

2) The Locker Room - who cares. Really! Winning cures locker room issues. This team’s lack of scoring ability is the real issue. If they score more, they’d win more and the locker room would be a better place. If Jbot can fix the roster and Jack can get everyone on the same page these issues will be a thing of the past.

3 & 4) Point regression. This is the biggest disappointment for this season. We discussed the lousy 3rd and 4th lines before the season started and frankly that is our achilles heel. If we had better secondary scoring, we’d be a much more effective team. That is Jbot’s chief mission this off-season. However, pt regression is not unusual for rebuilding teams. Again just look at Colorado, Dallas and Edm if you want to see three franchises in various stages of rebuilds and look at their results year to year. Fixing a team isn’t a straight line to the top.

5 & 6) Okposo and prospect development. It has been a strange year for the Sabres. I’m not really surprised after KO’s injury that he has taken half a season to get his game back. Reinhart and Risto have been the biggest surprises to the negative. I think both have struggled with the new system and Wowie has struggled to how to best utilize their talents, but that is changing for all three of late.
Reinhart has 3g 2a in the 9 Jan games, which if he keeps this up would be a 40pt pace. Risto has 3g 7a in his last 10 games and Okposo is actually having a good season if you take away the first 9 games. He has 8g and 17a in his last 36 games. This is a 57pt pace. He also has 9 pts in his last 9 games.

Bottom line is we look very much like Colorado did last year. They had vets who weren’t pulling their weight, some young guys struggling to find their spot in the NHL. Young stars who weren’t playing to their ability. A very suspect D group despite some big name well known players. A couple of locker-room malcontents and a first time 1st year head coach. Sound familiar?

Their former player GM, Joe Sakic, dumped the vets, called up some additional talent, traded away the malcontent opening up PT to a young star and fixed the D. Now they are a playoff team.

The Avs dumped 11 of 21 players who played 50% or more of last season, including 1 goalie and 5 players over 30 years old, but kept most of their core intact. They replaced these 11 with 3 players who received expanded roles from last season plus 8 new players, including 3 prospects.

No reason Jbot can’t do the same thing here Moulson is gone. Kane, our Duchene, will be as well. Gorges as well and hopefully Bogo. Odd are against Antipin, Josefson, Pouliot, Nolan and Falk returning. If Jbot has had enough of Larsson and Girgensons, they are on very tradeable contracts. Young stars are coming and soon. Guhle and Ullmark are almost certainly on the roster next season. CJ Smith could be our answer to Colorado’s Kerfoot. Mittelstadt could also make the team. Maybe one or two of the RW trio also seizes an opportunity in Buffalo next season. Added in the an NHL ready drsft pick, the right FA’s or trades and rebounds by Reinhart and Risto and you could very well have a contending team next season.

#22 Jacque Richard

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:59 PM

Georgia I agree with the first paragraph there.

#23 North Buffalo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:47 PM

I have had female bosses and male bosses. Some were good, some idiots and just plain batshit crazy. Sex had nothing to do with any of that but very easy to stereotype. Dont know KP but my guess is if you have to be the hammer you might as well embrace it. I think they finally found some folks they like Housley and his wife probably fit the mode. As a pure business woman, she sounds straight forward, mess up and you have to go. Communicate and Be respectful and she probably returns the favor no matter the circumstances.

#24 Marvelo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:58 PM

I guess it depends who she is firing. In my idealistic view of ownership, she'd fire the GM only, not the coach, scouts etc. Otherwise she'd stay in her lane. Terry too. Because they really know nothing about running a hockey team. They never earned the right to do such a thing. She was lucky enough to serve a young Terry at a restaurant in Olean and he liked her. And then he won the lottery with his business. They're not qualified hockey people. Still -- again -- owners do get to decide who runs their team for them.


It's a hornets nest, and, yes, sexism is going to play a part in it in the world of hockey. Putting that aside, as GM, would you be happy about Kim firing your staff?

 

:worthy:



#25 inkman

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:12 PM

I guess it depends who she is firing. In my idealistic view of ownership, she'd fire the GM only, not the coach, scouts etc. Otherwise she'd stay in her lane. Terry too. Because they really know nothing about running a hockey team. They never earned the right to do such a thing. She was lucky enough to serve a young Terry at a restaurant in Olean and he liked her. And then he won the lottery with his business. They're not qualified hockey people. Still -- again -- owners do get to decide who runs their team for them.

It's a hornets nest, and, yes, sexism is going to play a part in it in the world of hockey. Putting that aside, as GM, would you be happy about Kim firing your staff?

Do the antelopes care which lion eats them? Come on. If anyone has a problem with their business structure you have a problem with yourself. If our ###### (meant endearingly owner) wants to embrace being a hatchet (wo)man so be it.

The things we get worked up over.

#26 Kruppstahl

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:48 PM

Someone alluded to it a couple of weeks ago, and we discussed it pretty heavily when it happened, so the rumor is that he called Kim a nasty word beginning with C and rhyming with something Doug Marrone likes to do on fourth and short.

Really?  That's fairly entertaining.  Wonder if it's true or not.



#27 MattPie

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:57 PM

The Sabres got 99 problems, but scoring goals against Edmonton ain't one.



#28 PASabreFan

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:40 PM

The Sabres got 99 problems, but scoring goals against Edmonton ain't one.

:worthy:



#29 Thorny

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:35 AM

So, I'm confused here. What's his issue with Kim. Is it because she makes people who suck nervous that they may get fired? Or is it just that fact that she a woman. Would the Sabres be better if Terry did the firing, or Russ because they are men?
 
The rest, sure, but his first point is kinda stupid.


And the Okposo part, too. One of my biggest pet peeves is when writers leave out assist totals to try and make their argument look better.

Ya, they still count as points.

#30 Thorny

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:51 AM

I take most articles written by Toronto based journalists regarding the Sabres with a grain of salt. They are so quick in their praise of the Leafs and just as quick to bash on the Sabres. Considering the Leafs utter futility since 1967, maybe they should focus more on the Leafs lack of success then ours.
That said lets address this article.
1) Kim - It’s her team and she wants desperately to field winners. So far so good with the Bills. I also think she got it right this time with Sabres. I take heart when I look at the mess in Colorado and their one year turnaround. I think the same is possible here.
2) The Locker Room - who cares. Really! Winning cures locker room issues. This team’s lack of scoring ability is the real issue. If they score more, they’d win more and the locker room would be a better place. If Jbot can fix the roster and Jack can get everyone on the same page these issues will be a thing of the past.
3 & 4) Point regression. This is the biggest disappointment for this season. We discussed the lousy 3rd and 4th lines before the season started and frankly that is our achilles heel. If we had better secondary scoring, we’d be a much more effective team. That is Jbot’s chief mission this off-season. However, pt regression is not unusual for rebuilding teams. Again just look at Colorado, Dallas and Edm if you want to see three franchises in various stages of rebuilds and look at their results year to year. Fixing a team isn’t a straight line to the top.
5 & 6) Okposo and prospect development. It has been a strange year for the Sabres. I’m not really surprised after KO’s injury that he has taken half a season to get his game back. Reinhart and Risto have been the biggest surprises to the negative. I think both have struggled with the new system and Wowie has struggled to how to best utilize their talents, but that is changing for all three of late.
Reinhart has 3g 2a in the 9 Jan games, which if he keeps this up would be a 40pt pace. Risto has 3g 7a in his last 10 games and Okposo is actually having a good season if you take away the first 9 games. He has 8g and 17a in his last 36 games. This is a 57pt pace. He also has 9 pts in his last 9 games.
Bottom line is we look very much like Colorado did last year. They had vets who weren’t pulling their weight, some young guys struggling to find their spot in the NHL. Young stars who weren’t playing to their ability. A very suspect D group despite some big name well known players. A couple of locker-room malcontents and a first time 1st year head coach. Sound familiar?
Their former player GM, Joe Sakic, dumped the vets, called up some additional talent, traded away the malcontent opening up PT to a young star and fixed the D. Now they are a playoff team.
The Avs dumped 11 of 21 players who played 50% or more of last season, including 1 goalie and 5 players over 30 years old, but kept most of their core intact. They replaced these 11 with 3 players who received expanded roles from last season plus 8 new players, including 3 prospects.
No reason Jbot can’t do the same thing here Moulson is gone. Kane, our Duchene, will be as well. Gorges as well and hopefully Bogo. Odd are against Antipin, Josefson, Pouliot, Nolan and Falk returning. If Jbot has had enough of Larsson and Girgensons, they are on very tradeable contracts. Young stars are coming and soon. Guhle and Ullmark are almost certainly on the roster next season. CJ Smith could be our answer to Colorado’s Kerfoot. Mittelstadt could also make the team. Maybe one or two of the RW trio also seizes an opportunity in Buffalo next season. Added in the an NHL ready drsft pick, the right FA’s or trades and rebounds by Reinhart and Risto and you could very well have a contending team next season.


This in an excellent post.

But please let us not speak of it again - if we all start seeing it as possible, or even expected, there can be no surprise, and it won’t happen. :(

;)

Edited by Thorny, 24 January 2018 - 12:51 AM.


#31 Brawndo

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:25 PM

Follow Up from the same author regarding the Oilers Loss

http://www.sportsnet...impression=true

#32 rekim

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:29 PM

sabres won 2 in a row. i call the cup win next year 



#33 SwampD

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:47 PM

Follow Up from the same author regarding the Oilers Loss

http://www.sportsnet...impression=true

That first picture is awesome.

 

 

But, man, do I hate reading on a laptop sites that were designed for iPhones.



#34 Skurk Liger

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:20 PM

Follow Up from the same author regarding the Oilers Loss

http://www.sportsnet...impression=true

A little different then the quotes from the Sabres room.

#35 Ogre

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:34 PM

Follow Up from the same author regarding the Oilers Loss

http://www.sportsnet...impression=true

“You can’t afford to lose games, no disrespect to them, against teams like this.” said Lucic.
Hey, Milan. F U. Nice cartoon character name. Miss Boston much? How much do they miss you?

#36 Thorny

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:10 AM

Follow Up from the same author regarding the Oilers Loss
http://www.sportsnet...impression=true


That Draisaitl deal would make me a little nervous as an Oilers fan.

He’s actually had a pretty decent year, just not sure it’s 8.5 million bones/per good.

#37 Taro T

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:13 AM

That Draisaitl deal would make me a little nervous as an Oilers fan.
He’s actually had a pretty decent year, just not sure it’s 8.5 million bones/per good.


For some reason, thought it was $9.5/yr average. $8.5 isn't great, but by the endhe could be worth it.

#38 Darryl Shannon's +/-

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:01 AM

I guess it depends who she is firing. In my idealistic view of ownership, she'd fire the GM only, not the coach, scouts etc. Otherwise she'd stay in her lane. Terry too. Because they really know nothing about running a hockey team. They never earned the right to do such a thing. She was lucky enough to serve a young Terry at a restaurant in Olean and he liked her. And then he won the lottery with his business. They're not qualified hockey people. Still -- again -- owners do get to decide who runs their team for them.


It's a hornets nest, and, yes, sexism is going to play a part in it in the world of hockey. Putting that aside, as GM, would you be happy about Kim firing your staff?

 

Except in this case, the GM and everyone else got canned.  I'm torn on this, as if I were the owner of a team I'd feel the responsibility to do the dirty work myself.  Yes, the ideal is to say that you'd let the hockey ops team take care of all hockey business.  But when you are the one signing each paycheck, I think a level of responsibility exists as well.  Keep in mind that Bucky and Harrington have pulled the tired, "Kim is in the room while men are talking".  And I think that's where a lot of this talk/speculation starts.  

 

The other thing to keep in mind.  While there has been a lot of turnover for both teams over the past few years - I don't know if any of the firings could be categorized as inappropriate.  Murray and his tactics to build a "heavy" team set the team back years.  And they fired him before we all saw that to be true.  

 

It's funny to me how the criticism flows.  Terry was beaten up for not being available to the media, now the problem is that Kim is too involved in firing incompetent staff?



#39 We've

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:27 AM

They got 99 problems, but the Alberta- British Columbia swing ain’t one.