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#161 mörksabre

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Posted Yesterday, 10:37 PM

I don’t have a single problem with what we’ve seen from Jack Eichel this year. He’s putting work into developing his two way game, his defence, particularly on the backcheck, while still having room to grow, is miles ahead of last season. His demeanour is vastly more mature in post game interviews compared to previous years. All while putting up a slightly higher points per game, on a terrible team, where last I saw he was leading the league in % of team goals he’s had a hand in.

He’s clearly committed. And he’s speaking the part. He’s walking the walk, and he’s leading; and whether because they are unwillingly, or incapable, many others on the team are apparently unable to follow.


Agreed. I think Eichel turned a corner this year. But other guys haven't followed

#162 Wyldnwoody44

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Posted Today, 12:46 AM

Agreed. I think Eichel turned a corner this year. But other guys haven't followed

He turned that corner too hard and snapped his ankle.... His Jack Ankle


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#163 That Aud Smell

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Posted Today, 05:52 AM

I would like nothing more than for Eichel to be *not* part of the problem. All available information seems to tell me that’s the case.

#164 Kottbullar

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Posted Today, 06:58 AM

I would like nothing more than for Eichel to be *not* part of the problem. All available information seems to tell me that’s the case.

Yeah, but Jack is an Ass...  so there is that...common... this thread was begging for it...



#165 We've

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Posted Today, 06:58 AM

I would like nothing more than for Eichel to be *not* part of the problem. All available information seems to tell me that’s the case.


Agree with your first sentence. I’d say we have zero other than post game platitudes as evidence of the 2nd. I sure hope he isn’t among a group tuning out the coach, but he’s done it once so he doesn’t get my benefit of the doubt.

#166 Thorny

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Posted Today, 08:22 AM

Agree with your first sentence. I’d say we have zero other than post game platitudes as evidence of the 2nd. I sure hope he isn’t among a group tuning out the coach, but he’s done it once so he doesn’t get my benefit of the doubt.


You can’t really prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on your side of the argument. If you think he’s tuning out the coach, where is the evidence?

We don’t need evidence that he’s NOT tuning out the coach. Even if his commitment to a much more well rounded game is not evidence enough.

Are there specific things from this season that suggest Jack is tuning out Housley? If the argument is that he’s for now on “tuning out the coach until proven otherwise” because it’s theorized that he tuned out Bylsma, that seems kinda odd. I’m not sure how anyone can approach that other than to point to the current situation in which there’s literally no smoke where Jack is concerned.

Put another way: What could Jack do in your eyes differently from this season so far to prove he’s not tuning out the coach?

#167 Kottbullar

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Posted Today, 08:33 AM

My take... Phil needs a young team he can grow with.. dump the veterans except maybe Wilson may be a good idea... prob is this year they didnt have enough guys to do that.... so assume purge continues.

#168 LTS

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Posted Today, 08:33 AM

Wow.. this thread is still going?

 

Housley is not the problem.  The core group of players (whoever they are) are not the problem.

 

The problem is the absolute lack of secondary scoring, the sub-par defense, and goaltending.  

 

This team is worse this year because they had to learn a new way to play and it took some time for them to get it.  Whether it was through willfully resisting Housley or just getting everyone up to speed, who knows.  There were also a ton of new faces on the roster in secondary roles.

 

This team, with Eichel, would be winning a few more but we've seen a general uptick in the way they play.  The problem remains their ability to score from the bottom 6 and struggles on the back end that expose a goaltender who lets in soft goals.  There are issues in the locker room I am sure.  I am sure that some of them perhaps have been laid to rest via communication.  Some of them may pertain to Lehner and/or Kane and hopefully those will be removed soon.  Once this team can ice a 3rd line that requires the opposition to pay attention things should change.



#169 That Aud Smell

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Posted Today, 08:37 AM

Agree with your first sentence. I’d say we have zero other than post game platitudes as evidence of the 2nd. I sure hope he isn’t among a group tuning out the coach, but he’s done it once so he doesn’t get my benefit of the doubt.

 

When I referenced evidence being to the contrary, I was thinking of what Thorny talked about:

 

I don’t have a single problem with what we’ve seen from Jack Eichel this year. He’s putting work into developing his two way game, his defence, particularly on the backcheck, while still having room to grow, is miles ahead of last season. His demeanour is vastly more mature in post game interviews compared to previous years. All while putting up a slightly higher points per game, on a terrible team, where last I saw he was leading the league in % of team goals he’s had a hand in.

He’s clearly committed. And he’s speaking the part. He’s walking the walk, and he’s leading; and whether because they are unwillingly, or incapable, many others on the team are apparently unable to follow.

 

I'll also say: He has exhibited and projected a more mature, serious-minded when addressing the media. Sure, that could be a charade, but it seemed indicative of him moving past the eye rolls and sarcasm and embracing a more professional approach.

 

I'm not saying that Eichel's not part of, the leader of, a coach-killing core. I'm saying I hope he isn't, and that it appears he isn't.

 

In all events, Eichel is here to stay. 



#170 Thorny

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Posted Today, 08:50 AM

Wow.. this thread is still going?
 
Housley is not the problem.  The core group of players (whoever they are) are not the problem.
 
The problem is the absolute lack of secondary scoring, the sub-par defense, and goaltending.  
 
This team is worse this year because they had to learn a new way to play and it took some time for them to get it.  Whether it was through willfully resisting Housley or just getting everyone up to speed, who knows.  There were also a ton of new faces on the roster in secondary roles.
 
This team, with Eichel, would be winning a few more but we've seen a general uptick in the way they play.  The problem remains their ability to score from the bottom 6 and struggles on the back end that expose a goaltender who lets in soft goals.  There are issues in the locker room I am sure.  I am sure that some of them perhaps have been laid to rest via communication.  Some of them may pertain to Lehner and/or Kane and hopefully those will be removed soon.  Once this team can ice a 3rd line that requires the opposition to pay attention things should change.


Agree to an extent, but I’d say this slightly oversimplifies things in the sense that there are issues to be addressed within the core itself, as well. Notably the progression of Ristolainen and Reinhart, and the long term viability of Okposo.

Also, I’d love to say improving the 3rd line will fix things, but there are gaping holes in the top 6 LW, as well.

#171 Mick O’Manly

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Posted Today, 09:15 AM

Before further weakening the culture by firing another coach, or deciding the core is broken, I want to see how this team looks when we’ve actually got eight real middle roster players instead of a lonely Marco Scandella lost in a collection of Benoit Pouliots and Johan Larssons.

Edited by Mick O’Manly, Today, 09:16 AM.


#172 PASabreFan

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Posted Today, 10:10 AM

I'll also say: He has exhibited and projected a more mature, serious-minded when addressing the media. Sure, that could be a charade, but it seemed indicative of him moving past the eye rolls and sarcasm and embracing a more professional approach.

 

I'm not saying that Eichel's not part of, the leader of, a coach-killing core. I'm saying I hope he isn't, and that it appears he isn't.

 

In all events, Eichel is here to stay. 

I've noticed that the interruptory (possibly not a word, but neither is defenestate) "yeahs" are pretty much gone from his interviews. Maybe he got some media training last offseason.


Edited by PASabreFan, Today, 10:10 AM.


#173 That Aud Smell

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Posted Today, 10:12 AM

I've noticed that the interruptory (possibly not a word, but neither is defenestate) "yeahs" are pretty much gone from his interviews. Maybe he got some media training last offseason.

 

Useful word to invent, if it isn't one already.

 

I think he definitely got some training.



#174 mörksabre

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Posted Today, 10:27 AM

Useful word to invent, if it isn't one already.

I think he definitely got some training.


(from Russ...)

#175 That Aud Smell

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Posted Today, 10:44 AM

(from Russ...)

 

no diggity.



#176 LTS

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Posted Today, 11:31 AM

Agree to an extent, but I’d say this slightly oversimplifies things in the sense that there are issues to be addressed within the core itself, as well. Notably the progression of Ristolainen and Reinhart, and the long term viability of Okposo.

Also, I’d love to say improving the 3rd line will fix things, but there are gaping holes in the top 6 LW, as well.

 

I see no problems with Reinhart.  He's been playing as we would expect him to since Jan. 1.  He's looked good and more comfortable with how he's supposed to play and where is supposed to be on the ice.

 

Ristolainen is an interesting case.  I think he's simply trying too hard at this point.  There's no doubt he feels the need to be more than he is and as a result he's placing more pressure on himself and also trying to do more than he's capable of doing.  Frankly I think this plays out in how he wants to get chippy with people.  I think there's a level of frustration in his game that he takes out on the opposition.  He's not mentally sharp because he's still over complicating his game.  These might be things that clear up as the D and goaltending get shored up.  They might not be and he may end up only being a 3/4 D.  I don't think he needs to be moved from the team.

 

There is a need for another top level player.  The question is when does that player arrive?  I would think that we see Botterill go after one of them in the off-season.  I think Mittelstadt is tabbed to be another but not for 2 years.  So, next year improve via a UFA signing (or hoping one of the current prospects pans out) and then the year after you see the top 6 begin to bleed into the top 9 and that's a good problem to have.



#177 pi2000

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Posted Today, 11:47 AM

Wow.. this thread is still going?

 

Housley is not the problem.  The core group of players (whoever they are) are not the problem.

 

The problem is the absolute lack of secondary scoring, the sub-par defense, and goaltending.  

 

This team is worse this year because they had to learn a new way to play and it took some time for them to get it.  Whether it was through willfully resisting Housley or just getting everyone up to speed, who knows.  There were also a ton of new faces on the roster in secondary roles.

 

This team, with Eichel, would be winning a few more but we've seen a general uptick in the way they play.  The problem remains their ability to score from the bottom 6 and struggles on the back end that expose a goaltender who lets in soft goals.  There are issues in the locker room I am sure.  I am sure that some of them perhaps have been laid to rest via communication.  Some of them may pertain to Lehner and/or Kane and hopefully those will be removed soon.  Once this team can ice a 3rd line that requires the opposition to pay attention things should change.

 

You think they've gotten it?   What exactly is "it"?    Because if they've got "it".. then "it" doesn't seem to be working.



#178 LTS

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Posted Today, 02:16 PM

You think they've gotten it?   What exactly is "it"?    Because if they've got "it".. then "it" doesn't seem to be working.

 

C'mon, you know enough about hockey to see a completely different team on the ice now than the beginning of the year.  Just because they aren't winning doesn't mean they aren't playing better.



#179 pi2000

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Posted Today, 02:22 PM

C'mon, you know enough about hockey to see a completely different team on the ice now than the beginning of the year.  Just because they aren't winning doesn't mean they aren't playing better.

 

The assertion was that they're finally playing the way Housley wants them to.    I disagree.   Sure they're playing his system better than the beginning of the year, but IMO they have a long ways to go.   



#180 Gramps

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Posted Today, 04:07 PM

Wow.. this thread is still going?

 

Housley is not the problem.  The core group of players (whoever they are) are not the problem.

 

The problem is the absolute lack of secondary scoring, the sub-par defense, and goaltending.  

 

This team is worse this year because they had to learn a new way to play and it took some time for them to get it.  Whether it was through willfully resisting Housley or just getting everyone up to speed, who knows.  There were also a ton of new faces on the roster in secondary roles.

 

This team, with Eichel, would be winning a few more but we've seen a general uptick in the way they play.  The problem remains their ability to score from the bottom 6 and struggles on the back end that expose a goaltender who lets in soft goals.  There are issues in the locker room I am sure.  I am sure that some of them perhaps have been laid to rest via communication.  Some of them may pertain to Lehner and/or Kane and hopefully those will be removed soon.  Once this team can ice a 3rd line that requires the opposition to pay attention things should change.

 

Good post and I agree with everything except for the bolded. I consider Pominville to be part of the problem now, both 5-on-5 and on the power play. He is relatively useless and I don't know if he's tired and/or just has given up. I know we've got him for one more year, but if he continues on this path, he shouldn't even make the roster next year. 



#181 Sabersfläkt i NS

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Posted Today, 05:02 PM

Pominville is certainly not part of the core, but he is part of the problem, in only that he can't offer much anymore.



#182 We've

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Posted Today, 05:36 PM

You can’t really prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on your side of the argument. If you think he’s tuning out the coach, where is the evidence?

We don’t need evidence that he’s NOT tuning out the coach. Even if his commitment to a much more well rounded game is not evidence enough.

Are there specific things from this season that suggest Jack is tuning out Housley? If the argument is that he’s for now on “tuning out the coach until proven otherwise” because it’s theorized that he tuned out Bylsma, that seems kinda odd. I’m not sure how anyone can approach that other than to point to the current situation in which there’s literally no smoke where Jack is concerned.

Put another way: What could Jack do in your eyes differently from this season so far to prove he’s not tuning out the coach?


I don’t need to prove a damned thing. I’m offering an opinion, not a research paper. And the extent of my opinion was that I’m not inclined towards giving him the benefit of the doubt based on past history. YMMV