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Lehner, doesn't track pucks well


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#1 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:12 AM

Watch next time a puck goes behind the net. Or defenders make a screened pass. He loses the puck. Major reason he unsealed the post. Discuss.

#2 Sabel79

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:20 AM

Lehner is awful. Nine out of ten times he goes behind the net it's a turnover. He can't, iterally can not stop a shot one-on-one.

He lunges at shots or what he thinks might be shots. He somehow gets smaller in front of the net when he can't see the puck. He can not hold a post. He's actually, when you drill down, literally bad at everything a goalie needs to do.

#3 Kottbullar

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:48 AM

Watch next time a puck goes behind the net. Or defenders make a screened pass. He loses the puck. Major reason he unsealed the post. Discuss.

Exactly, when the puck goes behind the net he has no idea where it went.  When he does pick it up, he has a look on his face of surprise... oh there it went.  Not sure if he needs glasses or wears contacts and his depth perception is thrown off... but if I were the Sabres, I'd get his eyes checked out.



#4 pi2000

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 02:29 AM

Exactly, when the puck goes behind the net he has no idea where it went.  When he does pick it up, he has a look on his face of surprise... oh there it went.  Not sure if he needs glasses or wears contacts and his depth perception is thrown off... but if I were the Sabres, I'd get his eyes checked out.

 

He too aggressive, he attacks the puck; and the league knows this.



#5 Kottbullar

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 02:38 AM

He too aggressive, he attacks the puck; and the league knows this.

Make him a defenseman... team could use this sort of guy.



#6 De Listig Ett

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:44 AM

We'll see him on a different team come March 1st.  Not only did Botterill not extend him long term, but he didn't give him more than a year.  This will be Ullmark's crease next season. 



#7 Jacque Richard

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:09 AM

Call in with Peters and rivet to discuss.

#8 MattiPaj

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:22 AM

At best, he really needs to work on all his fundamentals. At worst, he has worked on them and they're not getting better.



#9 lehner_gives_up_another

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:11 AM

he doesnt track the puck well,

he doesnt move side to side well,

he doesnt protect glove side well,

he doesnt protect blocker side well,

he doesnt cover the posts tightly (well),

he doesnt protect shoot outs well,

he doesnt protect break-aways well,

he doesnt protect pucks not shot directly at him well,

he doesnt prevent soft goals well,

he doesnt read passes well

 

i am very much looking forward to him being another teams problem. I really believe he will not be a starter in the NHL again after this year and within 3 years will be out of the NHL completely


Edited by fettmanlitenkappa, 19 January 2018 - 10:16 AM.


#10 Anordning

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:14 AM

Make him a defenseman... team could use this sort of guy.

 

I bet he wouldn't be half as good as DLo with the puck.



#11 MattiPaj

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:20 AM

I bet he wouldn't be half as good as DLo with the puck.

 

LOL. I'm not sure why people think he'd be good making breakout passes given the way he handles the puck behind the net. :)

 

he doesnt track the puck well,

he doesnt move side to side well,

he doesnt protect glove side well,

he doesnt protect blocker side well,

he doesnt cover the posts tightly (well),

he doesnt protect shoot outs well,

he doesnt protect break-aways well,

he doesnt protect pucks not shot directly at him well,

he doesnt prevent soft goals well,

he doesnt read passes well

 

i am very much looking forward to him being another teams problem. I really believe he will not be a starter in the NHL again after this year and within 3 years will be out of the NHL completely

 

Do be fair, I don't think he's that bad on break-aways. :)



#12 Kottbullar

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:23 AM

I bet he wouldn't be half as good as DLo with the puck.


Hes aggressive! Bet he would clear the front of the net.

#13 MattiPaj

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:34 AM

Hes aggressive! Bet he would clear the front of the net.

 

While the puck slid between his legs for a SOG.



#14 Sabersfläkt i NS

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:37 AM

Hes aggressive! Bet he would clear the front of the net.

 

I bet he'd be a bad person der and be too much time in da bax der.

 



#15 Georgia Blizzard

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:40 AM

He makes the unimportant saves not the important ones, or, at least it seems that way.



#16 Anordning

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:54 AM

LOL. I'm not sure why people think he'd be good making breakout passes given the way he handles the puck behind the net. :)

 

Seriously, EVERY time he handles the puck behind the net, there's a Sabre Dman RIGHT THERE and he rims it around the boards past the Dman to the opposing forward on the half wall.  EVERY.  STINKING.  TIME.  Watch for it; it's infuriating.



#17 Mustasch av gud

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:10 AM

Are there any Lehner supporters on this board? I can't wait until he's off the team, the guy always seems wound up way too tightly. I think I recall some interviews from Ottawa players after he left saying "we can relax on the back end a bit" and reading into that makes you think Lehner's fiery attitude had guys treading lightly.

 

I caught the 3rd last night and watching the 3rd and 4th goals had me rolling my eyes. His positioning was atrocious and my thoughts were "Ullmark would have stopped those". I haven't read the game thread but I'm sure others have had that sentiment.



#18 Anordning

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:53 AM

Are there any Lehner supporters on this board? I can't wait until he's off the team, the guy always seems wound up way too tightly. I think I recall some interviews from Ottawa players after he left saying "we can relax on the back end a bit" and reading into that makes you think Lehner's fiery attitude had guys treading lightly.

 

I caught the 3rd last night and watching the 3rd and 4th goals had me rolling my eyes. His positioning was atrocious and my thoughts were "Ullmark would have stopped those". I haven't read the game thread but I'm sure others have had that sentiment.

 

I had the same thought.


And from that standpoint, I would say the Sabres played a pretty good game.  It's a game they could have won had a bounce or two gone their way.  Instead Lehner couldn't stop them.



#19 Gramps

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

Are there any Lehner supporters on this board? I can't wait until he's off the team, the guy always seems wound up way too tightly. I think I recall some interviews from Ottawa players after he left saying "we can relax on the back end a bit" and reading into that makes you think Lehner's fiery attitude had guys treading lightly.

 

I caught the 3rd last night and watching the 3rd and 4th goals had me rolling my eyes. His positioning was atrocious and my thoughts were "Ullmark would have stopped those". I haven't read the game thread but I'm sure others have had that sentiment.

 

His fiery attitude is not an issue with me. The real problem is that he is an average to below average NHL goaltender with bad fundamentals.



#20 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:11 PM

Until we get a competent blue line group, we won’t ever be satisfied with our goaltending. We don’t score, we play in our own end 65% of the game, our D don’t clear the goal crease, our D don’t get the puck efficiently out of our zone and our forwards stink at back checking. Somehow this is Lehner’s fault?

No one would look good playing behind this D group.

Y’all might not love Lehner, but I suspect Jbot will try to keep him if he’ll accept another year at $4mill. If he’ll move him by the deadline or more likely over the summer if he can get his price.

Rationale: Letting Ullmark backup Lehner to the tune of 35 games would give Ullmark a season to get fully used to the NHL. It would also give Jbot the opportunity to lock him at a top backup prices rather then starter prices when his deal ends after next season.

#21 lehner_gives_up_another

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 02:54 PM

Until we get a competent blue line group, we won’t ever be satisfied with our goaltending. We don’t score, we play in our own end 65% of the game, our D don’t clear the goal crease, our D don’t get the puck efficiently out of our zone and our forwards stink at back checking. Somehow this is Lehner’s fault?

No one would look good playing behind this D group.

Y’all might not love Lehner, but I suspect Jbot will try to keep him if he’ll accept another year at $4mill. If he’ll move him by the deadline or more likely over the summer if he can get his price.

Rationale: Letting Ullmark backup Lehner to the tune of 35 games would give Ullmark a season to get fully used to the NHL. It would also give Jbot the opportunity to lock him at a top backup prices rather then starter prices when his deal ends after next season.

 

 

i think you are thinking a bulk of the people ONLY blame lehner. I think most people here know our entire team is pretty horrible, except a couple of guys. 

 

yes, i agree the defense is horrible, but lehner is a very below average tender. i honestly, honestly think that if this team had ullmark for this entire season that the sabres would have 18 to 20 wins at this point. 

 

yes the defense stinks, the scoring is bad too, but lehner is probably the worst everyday starting goaltender in the league. i truly believe that.


Edited by fettmanlitenkappa, 19 January 2018 - 02:55 PM.


#22 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:09 PM

What's lehners sv% compared to league average?

#23 Jokertecken

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:13 PM

What's lehners sv% compared to league average?

Tied 20th for Quality Start % for goalies who have played over 20+ GP

 

Lehner has 34 GP, and at a 50% level of QS, he basically plays well enough half the time.

 

https://www.hockey-r...18_goalies.html


Edited by Jokertecken, 19 January 2018 - 03:14 PM.


#24 lehner_gives_up_another

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:19 PM

What's lehners sv% compared to league average?

tied for 22 of 32 with people that have at least 20 starts

http://www.quanthock...lies-stats.html

 

he is 27 of 32 for GAA with at least 20 starts.

 

 

so i was wrong, he isnt the worst goalie in the league. there are a couple that are a little worse.

 

 

also, those stats just show a small portion. i still stand behind my statement that he wont stop most shots that isnt hit directly at him


Edited by fettmanlitenkappa, 19 January 2018 - 03:21 PM.


#25 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:37 PM

The Sabres are amongst the worst teams in the league in blocking shots, and takeaways. We give up the 6th most shots a game. Our PK is now 25th. We have the 3rd worst differential between scoring chances for and against and 3rd worst in high danger chances for and against.

While I’ll admit Lehner was certainly better last season, so were Price, Allen and Murray, who all have stats similar to Lehner this season.

Lehner may not be the long-term solution TM envisioned, he is the least of our worries.

#26 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

The Sabres are amongst the worst teams in the league in blocking shots, and takeaways. We give up the 6th most shots a game. Our PK is now 25th. We have the 3rd worst differential between scoring chances for and against and 3rd worst in high danger chances for and against.

While I’ll admit Lehner was certainly better last season, so were Price, Allen and Murray, who all have stats similar to Lehner this season.

Lehner may not be the long-term solution TM envisioned, he is the least of our worries.

I'd agree. We have bigger issues.

#27 Jokertecken

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

The Sabres are amongst the worst teams in the league in blocking shots, and takeaways. We give up the 6th most shots a game. Our PK is now 25th. We have the 3rd worst differential between scoring chances for and against and 3rd worst in high danger chances for and against.

While I’ll admit Lehner was certainly better last season, so were Price, Allen and Murray, who all have stats similar to Lehner this season.

Lehner may not be the long-term solution TM envisioned, he is the least of our worries.

I agree but I hate his attitude.



#28 MattiPaj

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:41 PM

Do be fair, I don't think he's that bad on break-aways. :)

 

And after watching the Rangers game, I'm not sure he's bad at tracking the puck. On the third and fourth goals, he knew exactly where the puck was and was looking right at it. The problem was he was 4-5 feet from where he should have been and the net was empty.



#29 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:59 PM

Anatomy of a bad hockey team
GF - 102 - 31st
GA - 154 -29th
Differential - -52 - 30th

PP - 14% - 30th
Pk - 78.7% - 25th

Shots against - 32.8 - 26th
Shots for - 31.1 20th

Giveaways - 319 - 5th (yeah)
Takeaways - 241 - 30th
Blocks - 619 - 24th
Scoring chances for - 795 - 31st
Differential - 46.44% - 29th
High Danger chances for - 308 - 30th
Differential - 45.90 - 29th

#30 Anordning

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:00 PM

And after watching the Rangers game, I'm not sure he's bad at tracking the puck. On the third and fourth goals, he knew exactly where the puck was and was looking right at it. The problem was he was 4-5 feet from where he should have been and the net was empty.

 

Tracking the puck isn't just knowing where it is.  It's doing something with the information.  If he's not reacting to the puck's movement to get to the right position, he's not tracking the puck well.

 

It's hard to say since the puck was deflected prior to hitting the boards, but I envision Ullmark moving with the deflection and upon realizing it was going to miss the net, pushing hard into the post.  Yeah, it's projecting, but he seemed to be much more actively moving in the crease in the game he played last week.  Not needless movement, necessary movement.  Lehner watches the puck fine but then doesn't position himself where the puck would dictate he be.



#31 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:06 PM

Anatomy of a bad hockey team
GF - 102 - 31st
GA - 154 -29th
Differential - -52 - 30th

PP - 14% - 30th
Pk - 78.7% - 25th

Shots against - 32.8 - 26th
Shots for - 31.1 20th

Giveaways - 319 - 5th (yeah)
Takeaways - 241 - 30th
Blocks - 619 - 24th
Scoring chances for - 795 - 31st
Differential - 46.44% - 29th
High Danger chances for - 308 - 30th
Differential - 45.90 - 29th

Yup, we suck. Lehner. Defense. Lack of offense. It's a ###### show.

#32 pi2000

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:12 PM

We'll see him on a different team come March 1st.  Not only did Botterill not extend him long term, but he didn't give him more than a year.  This will be Ullmark's crease next season. 

 

He's a pending RFA tho, not UFA.    I'd expect him to be around and battle Ullmark for the #1 spot.


Yup, we suck. Lehner. Defense. Lack of offense. It's a ###### show.

 

...and who's fault is that? 

 

What is the one thing in common between the goalie, the defense, and the forwards?



#33 Scottysabres

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:35 PM

Lehner doesn't do a lot of things well.

Its like watching someone trying to eat chicken noodle soup with a fork.

#34 Jokertecken

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:52 PM

What is the one thing in common between the goalie, the defense, and the forwards?

Rip Simmonick

#35 We've

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:13 PM

Rip Simmonick

 

The uniforms



#36 Thorny

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:16 PM

He's a pending RFA tho, not UFA.    I'd expect him to be around and battle Ullmark for the #1 spot.
 
...and who's fault is that? 
 
What is the one thing in common between the goalie, the defense, and the forwards?


Lack of talent across the board.

#37 pi2000

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:45 AM

Rip Simmonick


correct

#38 eman

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 09:58 AM

The Sabres are amongst the worst teams in the league in blocking shots, and takeaways. We give up the 6th most shots a game. Our PK is now 25th. We have the 3rd worst differential between scoring chances for and against and 3rd worst in high danger chances for and against.

While I’ll admit Lehner was certainly better last season, so were Price, Allen and Murray, who all have stats similar to Lehner this season.

Lehner may not be the long-term solution TM envisioned, he is the least of our worries.

 

Well said! I agree that while Lehner has some glaring faults, if it wasn't for him, we'd have seen a ton of games like the Dallas one yesterday and then some posters would really acknowledge how brutal this club is under Phil. Lehner has kept us in games we had no business being in. I just hope this club makes serious progress before Ullmark gets here and has his confidence shattered. What has Phil done with the defensive scheme? Risto has totally regressed under Philly and that scares me.



#39 pi2000

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:34 PM

Well said! I agree that while Lehner has some glaring faults, if it wasn't for him, we'd have seen a ton of games like the Dallas one yesterday and then some posters would really acknowledge how brutal this club is under Phil. Lehner has kept us in games we had no business being in. I just hope this club makes serious progress before Ullmark gets here and has his confidence shattered. What has Phil done with the defensive scheme? Risto has totally regressed under Philly and that scares me.


I've said it from day one, Risto just isn't very good defensively. If he isn't contribute offensively he's JAG IMO.