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#161 mörksabre

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:07 AM

I don't see too many Sabres parked in front of the net at all this year.  Might be a Phil thing.

 

That said, I agree w/ posts above that Reinhart needs some nasty.  Maybe they should take away his action figures or something to make him mad.

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I've posited before that I think Reinhart is the real problem if you want to look for the ring leader of the core who is a bad influence on someone like Eichel. I think Sam is sneaky lazy. 



#162 Falkenate

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:09 AM

I don't see too many Sabres parked in front of the net at all this year.  Might be a Phil thing.

 

That said, I agree w/ posts above that Reinhart needs some nasty.  Maybe they should take away his action figures or something to make him mad.

lose the tandem bike while at it

 

and watch some vintage Andreychuk films


Edited by Falkenate, 15 December 2017 - 10:12 AM.


#163 jsb

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:21 AM

Saw the play and replay, yes Kane should have cleared but it was a good keep in. Both Erod and especially Sam were both there but stopped skating and didnt pick up the open guy. Sam went the wrong way to where other guy who was covered by D and Erod coasted may have been outta gas. Sam needed to make that play... effort issue imo.

That was my take on the play, Kane didn't clear the zone and then after a long shift it appeared (I'd rather take the high road) Sam and ERod were out of gas and couldn't get back. If we score 3-4-5 goals and win the game, I don't think the play is noticeable, but when you score 1 and it's the winning goal and your team is playing like doodoo most of the year, it becomes a highlight play that everyone remembers. 

I also remember the member formerly known as Thorny blamed Bogosian on the play. I agree with him most of the time but in this instance I don't have a clue what he was looking at because Bogo had his man covered IMO

 

As for Reinhart, I'm beginning to think he doesn't work in the offseason on his game enough. I don't see improvements in his game from year to year. 

Having said that his line of Kane and ERod did have the most dangerous chances although he's not leading the charge. I also think it's noteworthy that ERod is the C on that line and Sam is his winger instead of the other way around. I think that says alot about what the organization thinks of him at the Center position.


Edited by JSBeersson, 15 December 2017 - 10:26 AM.


#164 Kottbullar

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:40 AM

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I've posited before that I think Reinhart is the real problem if you want to look for the ring leader of the core who is a bad influence on someone like Eichel. I think Sam is sneaky lazy.

Kinda like the quiet kid who starts all the trouble but it takes a while for the teacher to figure out who is really pulling the strings or instigating the bad behavior.

#165 mörksabre

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:10 AM

Kinda like the quiet kid who starts all the trouble but it takes a while for the teacher to figure out who is really pulling the strings or instigating the bad behavior.

Right. And I'm not going to say that he's like...actively malicious. I just think he's probably not an overwhelmingly positive influence either. I doubt he's putting in the extra work at the gym or on the ice.  I doubt he's religiously studying game tape. Things like that. And since he and Eichel are buds...



#166 Gramps

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:10 AM

lose the tandem bike while at it

 

and watch some vintage Andreychuk films

 

Won't help him - Andreychuk was 6'4" and strong as a bull. 



#167 Falkenate

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:41 AM

then he should ride pine



#168 pi2000

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:19 PM

Right. And I'm not going to say that he's like...actively malicious. I just think he's probably not an overwhelmingly positive influence either. I doubt he's putting in the extra work at the gym or on the ice.  I doubt he's religiously studying game tape. Things like that. And since he and Eichel are buds...

 

If he was a little bit stronger maybe he scores on that giveway by Elliott and puts them up 2-0, and it's a completely different game at that point.  It's those little things this team hasn't figured out how to do yet.   They can't bear down and win a battle to score a timely goal.   Compete level isn't where it needs to be.    I blame Housley, and it's not a system issue, it's a motivation issue, he was a soft player and he's a soft coach.     They're at the bottom of the league and I can't remember him benching anybody in any game even for a single period.    What kind of message does that send?



#169 mörksabre

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:27 PM

If he was a little bit stronger maybe he scores on that giveway by Elliott and puts them up 2-0, and it's a completely different game at that point.  It's those little things this team hasn't figured out how to do yet.   They can't bear down and win a battle to score a timely goal.   Compete level isn't where it needs to be.    I blame Housley, and it's not a system issue, it's a motivation issue, he was a soft player and he's a soft coach.     They're at the bottom of the league and I can't remember him benching anybody in any game even for a single period.    What kind of message does that send?

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action. 
 



#170 pi2000

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:39 PM

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action. 
 

 

I think Housley is a fine coach.. for a veteran team that's already learned how to work hard every shift.    He's not the right fit for this group at this time... they're still figuring how to bring a consistent effort shift by shift.. .and that requires a disciplinarian, not a tactician.    I just don't think he's demanding enough and it shows on the ice.   

 

Bylsma was a better disciplinarian than Housley, he was more demanding and they had better results (with a worse roster).    Sure, young players may not have liked that style, but it's what's best for their development.... now they've taken a step back in the wrong direction, lazy play, developing bad habits, it's a mess... and that falls on the head coach.  



#171 mörksabre

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:43 PM

I think Housley is a fine coach.. for a veteran team that's already learned how to work hard every shift.    He's not the right fit for this group at this time... they're still figuring how to bring a consistent effort shift by shift.. .and that requires a disciplinarian, not a tactician.    I just don't think he's demanding enough and it shows on the ice.   

 

Bylsma was a better disciplinarian than Housley, he was more demanding and they had better results (with a worse roster).    Sure, young players may not have liked that style, but it's what's best for their development.... now they've taken a step back in the wrong direction, lazy play, developing bad habits, it's a mess... and that falls on the head coach.  

I don't agree with this at all. Bylsma was fired precisely because he didn't do the things with the players that he needed to. And GMTM was fired because he was paying zero attention to it. 

I think you'll find Housley perfectly capable of discipline. But you have to be patient and let him develop a working relationship with the players first. You can't just walk in like John Wayne to your first head coaching job and start throwing haymakers before you even know who to target. 



#172 Kottbullar

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:46 PM

I think Housley is a fine coach.. for a veteran team that's already learned how to work hard every shift.    He's not the right fit for this group at this time... they're still figuring how to bring a consistent effort shift by shift.. .and that requires a disciplinarian, not a tactician.    I just don't think he's demanding enough and it shows on the ice.   
 
Bylsma was a better disciplinarian than Housley, he was more demanding and they had better results (with a worse roster).    Sure, young players may not have liked that style, but it's what's best for their development.... now they've taken a step back in the wrong direction, lazy play, developing bad habits, it's a mess... and that falls on the head coach.

So you are saying a Torts protege.

#173 pi2000

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:52 PM

I don't agree with this at all. Bylsma was fired precisely because he didn't do the things with the players that he needed to. And GMTM was fired because he was paying zero attention to it. 

I think you'll find Housley perfectly capable of discipline. But you have to be patient and let him develop a working relationship with the players first. You can't just walk in like John Wayne to your first head coaching job and start throwing haymakers before you even know who to target. 

 

So basically throw away an entire season just to get to know everybody better?   I disagree strongly with this.    Look what Gallant has done in Vegas.   He's hard on the guys, expects a lot and they play like their hair's on fire because of his leadership.    Housley wouldn't have that team anywhere near a playoff spot, but hey... he'd be "getting to know everybody really well"... right?

 

So you are saying a Torts protege.

 

Not necessarily Torts, but somebody who isn't there to just to make friends.



#174 Kottbullar

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:01 PM

Again probably back to the Chris Taylor discussion, but I get the sense Housley’s patience is wearing thin... He was an arrogant sob as a player but loves to coach up self motivated talent. Itll work once Sabres accumulate enough talent. I still think Id like to see that team better than a Torts team so Im willing to to be patient. Besides I dont want to see Sam cry..

#175 mörksabre

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:03 PM

So basically throw away an entire season just to get to know everybody better?   I disagree strongly with this.    Look what Gallant has done in Vegas.   He's hard on the guys, expects a lot and they play like their hair's on fire because of his leadership.    Housley wouldn't have that team anywhere near a playoff spot, but hey... he'd be "getting to know everybody really well"... right?

 

 

Not necessarily Torts, but somebody who isn't there to just to make friends.

For one thing, this season was never going to be anything other than evaluation and development. That much is obvious now. And I think the results so far are indicative that this process is working. We're 30 games in and players are being shopped, guys are getting benched. Trades are getting made. Given how little real, actual progress Bylsma made in two years, we should probably be realistic about this team being where it is. I don't think things could progress any quicker given the sorry state of the team as a whole. 

Gallant in Vegas is a completely different situation. They're an upstart team of guys who needed to come in and get things going real fast. No history to worry about. No team cultures to break.  No systems to unlearn. No "stars" beyond a couple of aging vets. Every guy there is competing for a job because only a few of them have contracts beyond next season. 

 

Botterill has said that he wants to get some competition going on this team. Too many guys with nice contracts, too many guys not feeling the heat from players in the minors. He's starting to follow through on it now because clearly it is a major problem. This team has had a miserable few years, including the tanks. There are a lot of problems to be solved that a team like Vegas simply doesn't have to deal with. 


Edited by mörksabre, 15 December 2017 - 01:04 PM.


#176 Mick O’Manly

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:07 PM

For one thing, this season was never going to be anything other than evaluation and development. That much is obvious now. And I think the results so far are indicative that this process is working. We're 30 games in and players are being shopped, guys are getting benched. Trades are getting made. Given how little real, actual progress Bylsma made in two years, we should probably be realistic about this team being where it is. I don't think things could progress any quicker given the sorry state of the team as a whole. 
Gallant in Vegas is a completely different situation. They're an upstart team of guys who needed to come in and get things going real fast. No history to worry about. No team cultures to break.  No systems to unlearn. No "stars" beyond a couple of aging vets. Every guy there is competing for a job because only a few of them have contracts beyond next season. 
 
Botterill has said that he wants to get some competition going on this team. Too many guys with nice contracts, too many guys not feeling the heat from players in the minors. He's starting to follow through on it now because clearly it is a major problem. This team has had a miserable few years, including the tanks. There are a lot of problems to be solved that a team like Vegas simply doesn't have to deal with.


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#177 pi2000

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:24 PM

For one thing, this season was never going to be anything other than evaluation and development. That much is obvious now. And I think the results so far are indicative that this process is working. We're 30 games in and players are being shopped, guys are getting benched. Trades are getting made. Given how little real, actual progress Bylsma made in two years, we should probably be realistic about this team being where it is. I don't think things could progress any quicker given the sorry state of the team as a whole. 

Gallant in Vegas is a completely different situation. They're an upstart team of guys who needed to come in and get things going real fast. No history to worry about. No team cultures to break.  No systems to unlearn. No "stars" beyond a couple of aging vets. Every guy there is competing for a job because only a few of them have contracts beyond next season. 

 

Botterill has said that he wants to get some competition going on this team. Too many guys with nice contracts, too many guys not feeling the heat from players in the minors. He's starting to follow through on it now because clearly it is a major problem. This team has had a miserable few years, including the tanks. There are a lot of problems to be solved that a team like Vegas simply doesn't have to deal with. 

 

Wrong.   The expectations were that this team was going to battle for a playoff spot.   Going in with the attitude of "evaluation and deleopment" is a loser mentality.    This is ice hockey were talking about.

 

Other than Moulson getting waived (which should've happened years ago), and the Wilson trade, what else has happened during the season?  Nothing.   

 

The Sabre's improved by 30 points in Bylsma's first year.   They took a step back his second year, but that was because of Eichel's injury.    In fact the 2016-17 team without Eichel is outpacing this current team with Eichel and an improved roster.   Sad.

 

Creating a competitive atmposphere is not something the GM should be responsible for.    The Head Coach needs to make it a competitive environment by challenging guys and handing out ice time to those who've earned it.    That's not happening on this team, and that's Housley's fault.   Just because he's new, doesn't me he can't hold guys accountable.    How many times has Eichel been benched?   Reinhart?   ROR?   none.   

 

You hear it in player interviews as well,  guys talk a lot about holding each other accountable... why?  Because it's not coming from the head coach, so they need to police themselves.   That's a losing environment, it creates a divide in the locker room... I've been there and had coaches like Housley, it's no beuno.    The best coach is a guy all the players fear, and respect, he's not their friend, he's their leader.   You want a friend? Look to the guy sitting next to you on the bench.     That atmosphere brings guys together, and it's lacking on this team.


Edited by paj två tusen, 15 December 2017 - 01:28 PM.


#178 mörksabre

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:32 PM

Wrong.   The expectations were that this team was going to battle for a playoff spot.   Going in with the attitude of "evaluation and deleopment" is a loser mentality.    This is ice hockey were talking about.

 

Other than Moulson getting waived (which should've happened years ago), and the Wilson trade, what else has happened during the season?  Nothing.   

 

The Sabre's improved by 30 points in Bylsma's first year.   They took a step back his second year, but that was because of Eichel's injury.    In fact the 2016-17 team without Eichel is outpacing this current team with Eichel and an improved roster.   Sad.

 

Creating a competitive atmposphere is not something the GM should be responsible for.    The Head Coach needs to make it a competitive environment by challenging guys and handing out ice time to those who've earned it.    That's not happening on this team, and that's Housley's fault.   Just because he's new, doesn't me he can't hold guys accountable.    How many times has Eichel been benched?   Reinhart?   ROR?   none.   

 

You hear it in player interviews as well,  guys talk a lot about holding each other accountable... why?  Because it's not coming from the head coach, so they need to police themselves.   That's a losing environment, it creates a divide in the locker room... I've been there and had coaches like Housley, it's no beuno.    The best coach is a guy all the players fear, and respect, he's not their friend, he's their leader.   You want a friend? Look to the guy sitting next to you on the bench.     That atmosphere brings guys together, and it's lacking on this team.

The expectation was for them to be a cusp team. Cusp teams struggle and are often still developing. A cusp team with a new coach and GM is a lot of variables that can all go upside down. It's not my fault that people's expectations were too high. 

And again, we're 30 games in. Things are coming. 
 

As for the last bolded:  :rolleyes:  kay. Whatever you say bud. 

If you wanna live in a world of oversimplified takes, then have at it. 
 



#179 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:35 PM

I think it is the players responsibility to hold themselves accountable. A coach can only do so much. A room full of accountable ppl are more resilient then a coach forcing accountability on them. 

 

That said, Housley needs to get pissed off a little more. Jesus hell show some freaking emotions. 



#180 pi2000

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:37 PM

The expectation was for them to be a cusp team. Cusp teams struggle and are often still developing. A cusp team with a new coach and GM is a lot of variables that can all go upside down. It's not my fault that people's expectations were too high. 

And again, we're 30 games in. Things are coming. 
 

As for the last bolded:  :rolleyes:  kay. Whatever you say bud. 

If you wanna live in a world of oversimplified takes, then have at it. 
 

 

Hockey is a simple game.    There's a simple reason this team is underperforming... but go ahead and make complicated excuses for everybody if that makes you feel better.     



#181 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:46 PM

Not to interrupt but I think it is obvious why this team is nonperforming. Lack of confidence, lack of coaching, lack of leadership. 


oh and lack of talent



#182 pi2000

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:46 PM

I think it is the players responsibility to hold themselves accountable. A coach can only do so much. A room full of accountable ppl are more resilient then a coach forcing accountability on them. 

 

That said, Housley needs to get pissed off a little more. Jesus hell show some freaking emotions. 

 

Players should hold themselves accountable, but should not have to hold each other accountable.    Accountability starts with yourself, but when the coach doesn't hold the team accountable, then the accountability must come from teammates holding each other accountable.     If you're accountable for yourself, and the coach is holding the team accountable, then you'll have success.    And who's holding Housley accountable?   What is he accountable for?   When does he becoming accountable for this lack of accountability?   



#183 Eleven

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:51 PM

They all need accountabilly-buddies, pi.



#184 Kottbullar

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:03 PM

They all need accountabilly-buddies, pi.


Line for a new thread... Everbody choose a player to hold accountabilly... Evaluate and comment on that nights game... No more than three commenters for a single player.

#185 Iron Crotch

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 02:49 PM

We're the worst team in the East by far. And, we've score the fewest goals in the league. This roster was ###### last year and it is ###### this year. The only difference is last year we had an above average power play and this year it is lousy. We have the fewest 5-on-5 goals this year and only 11 power play goals in 32 games.

 

I don't think any coach in the league could get much out of this pile of ###### roster. I actually have more respect for Bylsma for winning a few games with these guys (mainly on the back of a strong power play). Our "scorers" don't score. The only guy producing is Kane and we're hell bent on running him out of town. I agree with pi partially in that you can overcomplicate it all you want, but the guys who are paid to generate offense need to do so. Period. And, Reinhart is one of those guys (as is Jack). Blaming linemates is a copout.

 

BTW - Reinhart has played 200 NHL games now (199). He's not a "kid" just learning the game any more.



#186 Thorny

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:05 PM

He's an RFA, so he's not going to walk away without compensation.
 
I strongly suggest we not give up on Reinhart. He's playing poorly and has regressed from the previous two years. But so has this entire team to varying degrees. He's only 22 years old and can't really maximize his potential on this current team because there are not enough good wingers on the roster for which Reinhart can center a line.
 
He may not be particularly fast or big for NHL standards, but I also wouldn't characterize him as slow or small either.


Part of the reason the team is so poor is because of the regression of a guy like Reinhart. As a #2 overall, he's one of the guys we should be counting on to elevate the play of the team. Instead he's less useful than Pouliot, a scrap heap pick up.

The expectations for Reinhart are too low.

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.
I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 
 
Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 
I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action.


Good post, but I don't think what's holding back Sam is fixable in the offseason: skating ability.

---

Mork and Paj with a great back and forth here with notable points on both sides.

#187 Gramps

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:45 PM

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action. 

 

I'd sign him with the understanding he spends next summer working out with Gary Roberts. 

 

Never mind, Cody Hodgson also worked out with Roberts. 



#188 Sabre1974

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:56 AM

Just announced here that our game against Philly next friday is being shown live on freesports. My friday night is complete.

 

new star wars film at 7.00 then home for our game starting at 12am. The joys of being a fan from europe :)



#189 PASabreFan

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:21 AM

Just announced here that our game against Philly next friday is being shown live on freesports. My friday night is complete.

 

new star wars film at 7.00 then home for our game starting at 12am. The joys of being a fan from europe :)

That's great. Is that pretty much your only shot of seeing a game?



#190 SkuggaLiger

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:07 AM

We're the worst team in the East by far. And, we've score the fewest goals in the league. This roster was ###### last year and it is ###### this year. The only difference is last year we had an above average power play and this year it is lousy. We have the fewest 5-on-5 goals this year and only 11 power play goals in 32 games.

I don't think any coach in the league could get much out of this pile of ###### roster. I actually have more respect for Bylsma for winning a few games with these guys (mainly on the back of a strong power play). Our "scorers" don't score. The only guy producing is Kane and we're hell bent on running him out of town. I agree with pi partially in that you can overcomplicate it all you want, but the guys who are paid to generate offense need to do so. Period. And, Reinhart is one of those guys (as is Jack). Blaming linemates is a copout.

BTW - Reinhart has played 200 NHL games now (199). He's not a "kid" just learning the game any more.

You what, I think I've reached this.

#191 Sabre1974

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:15 AM

That's great. Is that pretty much your only shot of seeing a game?

Seen our 3-1 loss in detroit on freesports and premier sports also show the games so i do see quite a few of them. My wife goes crazy at me when we play as the majority of our games start at 12am here and i am awake most of the night then on weekdays on a 5.45am train to work :).  An enjoyable journey if we win.

 

Saw us in New jersey in February for the first time but next on the bucket list is to do what modo has done and come to Buffalo to see us play.



#192 PASabreFan

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:31 AM

Seen our 3-1 loss in detroit on freesports and premier sports also show the games so i do see quite a few of them. My wife goes crazy at me when we play as the majority of our games start at 12am here and i am awake most of the night then on weekdays on a 5.45am train to work :).  An enjoyable journey if we win.

 

Saw us in New jersey in February for the first time but next on the bucket list is to do what modo has done and come to Buffalo to see us play.

So you're not a transplanted Buffalonian or even American? Sorry if I've asked this before (I feel like I have).



#193 Sabre1974

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 12:02 PM

Not from Buffalo or American.

Fully fledged brit but love hockey and American football

#194 PASabreFan

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 12:46 PM

Not from Buffalo or American.

Fully fledged brit but love hockey and American football

Bills too? I'm sorry. Here, take the colonies back. It's the least we can do.



#195 Sabre1974

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 02:17 PM

Not the bills too. Couldn't cope with that. I'm a colts fan





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