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Is Housley mismanaging the forwards?


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#1 Georgia Flakt

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:32 PM

Admittedly we don't have enough quality depth to roll 4 lines with any success. I also know that Kane/Eichel combo has, besides a recent surge from ROR, been our only offense YTD. However with the team averaging under 2 goals a game Wowie's combo aren't working.

I like that he tried something new against CBJ. However he didn't stick with it. Not surprising, but against a good defensive team like CBJ, he needs to give the new combo more time to gel. Minn also isn't the best opponent to see if the new combo are actually working.

The reason for this thread is I don't understand why he is sticking with Kane/Eichel when the team still isn't scoring. The problem stems from them being our top two trigger men. Pairing them together has enhanced Kane, but diminished Jack. We aren’t paying Jack $10 mill next year for 20 goals. (His current goal pace). We are paying for 40+. He won't get there feeding Kane night in and night out.

If I were building lines, I'd rank certain skills like passing, shooting, speed, size, scoring etc...

Our top scorers are Kane, Jack and then KO ROR, Pommers, Sam and then Pouliot
Our top playmakers are Jack, ROR, Sam and KO and then Pommers and Larsson
Fastest forwards Z, Kane, Jack,
Most physical forwards are Kane, Pouliot, Z, Nolan

At a minimum I want my top 2 scorers on separate lines, and then I want them playing with the 2 best available playmakers. Then I'm looking to slot in players where needed based on their skill set.
Kane ROR ?????
???? Eichel Sam


My initial thought is as follows
Kane ROR Pommers
Pouliot Eichel Sam - I want Pouliot here because he is physical, will create for Jack, and is willing to go the net
Girgensons Larsson Okposo - While this likely won't help KO's production. I like the phyiscal pesky nature of this line.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN, 22 November 2017 - 06:37 PM.


#2 We've

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:37 PM

I think it is pretty obvious why he sticks with Kane/Eichel.  There isn't another LW on the team that has the talent to run with Jack.  Teams are keyingon Jack even with Kane on his line, allowing Kane to light it up.  Imagine Jack with no Evander.  He'd be blanketed even worse.

 

At least Evander has the space to light things up.


Edited by We've, 22 November 2017 - 05:38 PM.


#3 Georgia Flakt

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:47 PM

I think it is pretty obvious why he sticks with Kane/Eichel.  There isn't another LW on the team that has the talent to run with Jack.  Teams are keyingon Jack even with Kane on his line, allowing Kane to light it up.  Imagine Jack with no Evander.  He'd be blanketed even worse.
 
At least Evander has the space to light things up.


You don’t necessarily need an elite LW to play with Jack. With Sam on the other side focused on playmaking for Jack, all you really need is some with decent skill who is willing to dig in the corner, be physical and clear space for Jack. Pouliot is perfectly capable of playing that role. Frankly so is Girgensons and he has the wheels to keep up.

If we move Kane and he plays well with ROR and that line starts scoring, then teams can no longer key solely on Jack.

#4 Taro T

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:12 AM

Admittedly we don't have enough quality depth to roll 4 lines with any success. I also know that Kane/Eichel combo has, besides a recent surge from ROR, been our only offense YTD. However with the team averaging under 2 goals a game Wowie's combo aren't working.
I like that he tried something new against CBJ. However he didn't stick with it. Not surprising, but against a good defensive team like CBJ, he needs to give the new combo more time to gel. Minn also isn't the best opponent to see if the new combo are actually working.
The reason for this thread is I don't understand why he is sticking with Kane/Eichel when the team still isn't scoring. The problem stems from them being our top two trigger men. Pairing them together has enhanced Kane, but diminished Jack. We aren’t paying Jack $10 mill next year for 20 goals. (His current goal pace). We are paying for 40+. He won't get there feeding Kane night in and night out.
If I were building lines, I'd rank certain skills like passing, shooting, speed, size, scoring etc...
Our top scorers are Kane, Jack and then KO ROR, Pommers, Sam and then Pouliot
Our top playmakers are Jack, ROR, Sam and KO and then Pommers and Larsson
Fastest forwards Z, Kane, Jack,
Most physical forwards are Kane, Pouliot, Z, Nolan
At a minimum I want my top 2 scorers on separate lines, and then I want them playing with the 2 best available playmakers. Then I'm looking to slot in players where needed based on their skill set.
Kane ROR ?????
???? Eichel Sam
My initial thought is as follows
Kane ROR Pommers
Pouliot Eichel Sam - I want Pouliot here because he is physical, will create for Jack, and is willing to go the net
Girgensons Larsson Okposo
- While this likely won't help KO's production. I like the phyiscal pesky nature of this line.


Would prefer Girgensons w/ Eichel & believe Reinhart fits better w/ O'Reilly but those lines look better than the ones they've been running.

#5 We've

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 09:08 AM

You don’t necessarily need an elite LW to play with Jack. With Sam on the other side focused on playmaking for Jack, all you really need is some with decent skill who is willing to dig in the corner, be physical and clear space for Jack. Pouliot is perfectly capable of playing that role. Frankly so is Girgensons and he has the wheels to keep up.

If we move Kane and he plays well with ROR and that line starts scoring, then teams can no longer key solely on Jack.

 

Here we go.  this is the same faulty reasoning you guys used to justify Sam being more valuable as a 3rd line center.  It just isn't correct.  Only a small handful of players in this league can excel with lesser talents.  and Jack isn't one of them.  And frankly, given Jack's indifferent play for much of this season, why would you trust him to be the go to guy? 

 

 

 

Girgensons has no hands and gets no respect by the defense. 



#6 Georgia Flakt

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 09:26 AM

Here we go. this is the same faulty reasoning you guys used to justify Sam being more valuable as a 3rd line center. It just isn't correct. Only a small handful of players in this league can excel with lesser talents. and Jack isn't one of them. And frankly, given Jack's indifferent play for much of this season, why would you trust him to be the go to guy?



Girgensons has no hands and gets no respect by the defense.

We are working with what we have for now. I don’t see Sam as a center in this league. I think he is a fine 2nd line RW.

Jack also works fine with lesser talent. Pommers production is where it is because he plays with Jack. His production went to zero when moved off the line. Girgensons limited output came playing with Jack.

Granted this came early in the season when Jack was still engaged, but that is also a reason for this thread. We need to jump start Jack and keep him involved. Clearly the losing is sapped the life out of him, just like it has the fans. He isn’t yet mature enough to work through it. This is why we need a reset. Getting him focused on scoring is that reset.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN, 23 November 2017 - 09:30 AM.


#7 We've

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 09:43 AM

Jack doesn't need new wingers to get him engaged.  He needs a teammate to grab him by the scruff and shake the ###### out of him.



#8 Georgia Flakt

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:17 AM

Jack doesn't need new wingers to get him engaged.  He needs a teammate to grab him by the scruff and shake the ###### out of him.


I agree.

#9 We've

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 12:18 PM

I agree.

 

Well, that is part of the rub though.  He's got to prove he can play hard enough, consistently enough before you can put him with secondary scorers.  Kane and Jack work with Jack going hard for 10 minutes a game because Kane has enough game to cover for Jack's ###### play.  Pouliliot ain't carrying the same load.

 

Imagine Kane playing with an Eichel that is giving 100% nearly every shift.  That could be some Mogilny-LaFontaine stuff right there.


Edited by We've, 23 November 2017 - 12:19 PM.


#10 Crusader1969

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:57 PM

Admittedly we don't have enough quality depth to roll 4 lines with any success. I also know that Kane/Eichel combo has, besides a recent surge from ROR, been our only offense YTD. However with the team averaging under 2 goals a game Wowie's combo aren't working.

I like that he tried something new against CBJ. However he didn't stick with it. Not surprising, but against a good defensive team like CBJ, he needs to give the new combo more time to gel. Minn also isn't the best opponent to see if the new combo are actually working.

The reason for this thread is I don't understand why he is sticking with Kane/Eichel when the team still isn't scoring. The problem stems from them being our top two trigger men. Pairing them together has enhanced Kane, but diminished Jack. We aren’t paying Jack $10 mill next year for 20 goals. (His current goal pace). We are paying for 40+. He won't get there feeding Kane night in and night out.

If I were building lines, I'd rank certain skills like passing, shooting, speed, size, scoring etc...

Our top scorers are Kane, Jack and then KO ROR, Pommers, Sam and then Pouliot
Our top playmakers are Jack, ROR, Sam and KO and then Pommers and Larsson
Fastest forwards Z, Kane, Jack,
Most physical forwards are Kane, Pouliot, Z, Nolan

At a minimum I want my top 2 scorers on separate lines, and then I want them playing with the 2 best available playmakers. Then I'm looking to slot in players where needed based on their skill set.
Kane ROR ?????
???? Eichel Sam


My initial thought is as follows
Kane ROR Pommers
Pouliot Eichel Sam - I want Pouliot here because he is physical, will create for Jack, and is willing to go the net
Girgensons Larsson Okposo - While this likely won't help KO's production. I like the phyiscal pesky nature of this line.

 

 

I don't think there is a line-up that he can put out there that is good enough to compete night in and night out.  There are only 6 forwards that have more than 2 goals all season! 

 

Before last night, had the 4th line scored a goal all season? the depth is beyond bad. 

 

6 players account for over 80% of their goals this season. The D combined has 0 goals and 22 Assists on the season. Morgan Reilly for the Leafs has 17 points alone. If you look at the Team that Housley came from the Preds top 3 Dmen (Subban, Josi and Ekholm) have 14goals and 30A. They have been missing Ryan Ellis all season! 

 

Until the D gets sorted and their is depth on this roster, there is nothing Housley can do. 

 

why is the depth bad? not 1 player drafted by the Sabres from the 2008 to 2011 (guys who should be filling out the lineup in the prime of career) is on the  current roster. In that time frame 21 guys were drafted in the 3rd round or later and only Bradon McNabb and Marcus Foligno have had NHL careers. 

 

Compare that again to the Preds- 2008 Roman Josi 2nd round, 2009  Ryan Ellis Rd 1, Craig Smith round 4, Elkholm Rd 4, 2010 Bitetto 6th rd, 2011 Salomaki.  not to mention in 2014, when they drafted Arvidsson in the 4th round.

 

not to exonerate GMTM, but its not the Tank, its not the trades that have sunk the Sabres, its the drafting from 2008 through 2011 that has kept this team from being competitive.

 

 

 

 

 

Its going to be a long long season. Let us pray for Dahlin!


Edited by Crusader1969, 23 November 2017 - 02:18 PM.


#11 bob_sauve28

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 03:03 PM

I do not like ROR being used as the checking center. He has the worst +- on the team there and it holds back his scoring. We don't have a true checking center on the team. Larrson and Grigs just are not good enough and ROR's faceoff talents help, but he is suited for a different role, imo



#12 Potato

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 03:27 PM

I don't think there is a line-up that he can put out there that is good enough to compete night in and night out.  There are only 6 forwards that have more than 2 goals all season! 

 

Before last night, had the 4th line scored a goal all season? the depth is beyond bad. 

 

6 players account for over 80% of their goals this season. The D combined has 0 goals and 22 Assists on the season. Morgan Reilly for the Leafs has 17 points alone. If you look at the Team that Housley came from the Preds top 3 Dmen (Subban, Josi and Ekholm) have 14goals and 30A. They have been missing Ryan Ellis all season! 

 

Until the D gets sorted and their is depth on this roster, there is nothing Housley can do. 

 

why is the depth bad? not 1 player drafted by the Sabres from the 2008 to 2011 (guys who should be filling out the lineup in the prime of career) is on the  current roster. In that time frame 21 guys were drafted in the 3rd round or later and only Bradon McNabb and Marcus Foligno have had NHL careers. 

 

Compare that again to the Preds- 2008 Roman Josi 2nd round, 2009  Ryan Ellis Rd 1, Craig Smith round 4, Elkholm Rd 4, 2010 Bitetto 6th rd, 2011 Salomaki.  not to mention in 2014, when they drafted Arvidsson in the 4th round.

 

not to exonerate GMTM, but its not the Tank, its not the trades that have sunk the Sabres, its the drafting from 2008 through 2011 that has kept this team from being competitive.

 

 

 

 

 

Its going to be a long long season. Let us pray for Dahlin!

 

Agree completely :thumbsup:

 

Our lineup is really, really bad. Folks are concerned about injuries - rightfully so. But, many of the injured players aren't difference makers. And, as much as we miss Risto (our only defensemen who seems to create offense), he is suspect in his own zone. Always has been. We're just devoid of talent all over the roster. I really don't think there is much Housley (or Bylsma) can do with this collection of garbage.

 

The Preds are my other favorite team and I'm hard pressed to find more than a handful of current Sabres who would even crack the lineup for the Preds. Seriously. The talent differential is that big.



#13 Crusader1969

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 03:45 PM

Agree completely :thumbsup:

 

Our lineup is really, really bad. Folks are concerned about injuries - rightfully so. But, many of the injured players aren't difference makers. And, as much as we miss Risto (our only defensemen who seems to create offense), he is suspect in his own zone. Always has been. We're just devoid of talent all over the roster. I really don't think there is much Housley (or Bylsma) can do with this collection of garbage.

 

The Preds are my other favorite team and I'm hard pressed to find more than a handful of current Sabres who would even crack the lineup for the Preds. Seriously. The talent differential is that big.

 

 

I just went to Nashville last weekend to see them play vs the Avalanche.. What a difference in atmosphere from seeing a game in Buffalo.  If you can get to a game, you will not only see a much better team but its an experience you won't find anywhere else. Well worth the trip.



#14 Vile Vedartad Fyrtiofyra

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 03:51 PM

Of course he's mismanagning the forwards.... If of course you mean, he hasn't built a super genetic generator yet to turn them into different, better players.

This team suckssssssssssss, no coach on the planet will get this year's team to a playoff spot

#15 Potato

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 04:19 PM

I just went to Nashville last weekend to see them play vs the Avalanche.. What a difference in atmosphere from seeing a game in Buffalo.  If you can get to a game, you will not only see a much better team but its an experience you won't find anywhere else. Well worth the trip.

 

I've had Preds season tickets for the past 8 seasons. Front row club level, blue line on the side where the Preds shoot twice (210, D, 7&8). I moved to New Orleans this summer, but my friend took over my seats. Will be there next week for a game. Awesome atmosphere in the arena. They do just about everything right to make it fun for the fans (the good team certainly helps, of course).



#16 ubkev

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 05:50 PM

Good thing the Preds had all those top 3 draft picks in order to get that good.

#17 Crusader1969

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 08:29 PM

Good thing the Preds had all those top 3 draft picks in order to get that good.


You can be good- even really good - but if you want to win the cup you better have at least a couple of top 3 to 5 picks. At least that's what 8 of the last 9 cup winners have shown us.

Penguins - Crosby & Malkin
BLackhawks - Kane & Toews
KIngs - Doughty & Schenn (whom they traded along with Simmons to get Richards & Carter)

#18 Bjorn Borg

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 12:26 AM

We are working with what we have for now. I don’t see Sam as a center in this league. I think he is a fine 2nd line RW.
Jack also works fine with lesser talent. Pommers production is where it is because he plays with Jack. His production went to zero when moved off the line. Girgensons limited output came playing with Jack.
Granted this came early in the season when Jack was still engaged, but that is also a reason for this thread. We need to jump start Jack and keep him involved. Clearly the losing is sapped the life out of him, just like it has the fans. He isn’t yet mature enough to work through it. This is why we need a reset. Getting him focused on scoring is that reset.


There's no question Jack can elevate lesser players. But are those lesser players maximizing Jack's talent, and the production we could get from Jack?

There's a fine line.

I'm good with Girgensons - Eichel - Reinhart because Reinhart as a complimentary RW isn't a lesser talent. He's pretty good. So one "grinder" in Girgensons could work.