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Toronto takes 2 from Buff


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#1 GASabresFan

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:05 AM

Should we be concerned? A couple of writers said that the team didn't come out ready to play both nights.

This can't happen. I know it's preseason and we still trying to evaluate certain players. However, this teams and its players and prospects can no longer afford to come out slowly now and in the regular season. We need to build on success in the pre-season to hit the ground running once the regular season starts. I see these 2 clunkers against Tor as a bad owen and an indication that Housley isn't getting the buy in he needs to get the system working.

Edited by GASabresFan, 24 September 2017 - 05:39 AM.


#2 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 06:40 AM

No.



#3 We've

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 06:52 AM

The thing I think we should be concerned about is the kids.  Our Big 4 down in Rochester just aren't making much of a roster push.  We need at least one to break through if we aren't going to go through yet another year of losing.

 

It is pretty noteworthy that the Toronto prospects came to play and pushed us hard, but our prospects couldn't do the same.  I don't know if that means they weren't prepared, or if that means they just aren't as close to being NHL players as Toronto's kids are.  I suspect more of the latter than the former.

 

My opinion is, for all the noise being made regarding how deep our prospect pool is (or should be) thanks to 5+ years of suckage, we still don't have much beyond our new core.



#4 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:19 AM

I'm not worried because I fully expected Toronto to be better than us this year, and possibly next year too. They're in the division, but they're not who we're competing against, if you catch my drift. Frankly, unless one of the less-heralded kids truly explodes, we're not going to be on par with Toronto until Nylander and Mittelstadt are ready.

Edited by TrueBlueGED, 24 September 2017 - 08:20 AM.


#5 We've

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:31 AM

I'm not worried because I fully expected Toronto to be better than us this year, and possibly next year too. They're in the division, but they're not who we're competing against, if you catch my drift. Frankly, unless one of the less-heralded kids truly explodes, we're not going to be on par with Toronto until Nylander and Mittelstadt are ready.

 

What was concerning isn't that Toronto took two.  It is that a Toronto squad with just a few NHL regulars looked impressive and beat a Sabres squad of majority NHLers including most of our core.



#6 Radar

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:06 AM

Should we be concerned? A couple of writers said that the team didn't come out ready to play both nights.
This can't happen. I know it's preseason and we still trying to evaluate certain players. However, this teams and its players and prospects can no longer afford to come out slowly now and in the regular season. We need to build on success in the pre-season to hit the ground running once the regular season starts. I see these 2 clunkers against Tor as a bad owen and an indication that Housley isn't getting the buy in he needs to get the system working.

I am not concerned. If this were mid or late November then maybe. Does this show players not "buy-in" to the coaches system? No quite frankly I think it's far to early to speculate on that as well.

#7 qwksndmonster

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:08 AM

I don't think I've ever seen the board go this hard for preseason. Good god we're hockey starved.

#8 ubkev

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:11 AM

I don't think I've ever seen the board go this hard for preseason. Good god we're hockey starved.


We haven't seen good hockey since 2011! It's been over 5 years since my mother first heard me curse, on that fateful Easter afternoon.

###### Ville Leino! ###### him with a jackhammer!

#9 Radar

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 09:12 AM

I'm not worried because I fully expected Toronto to be better than us this year, and possibly next year too. They're in the division, but they're not who we're competing against, if you catch my drift. Frankly, unless one of the less-heralded kids truly explodes, we're not going to be on par with Toronto until Nylander and Mittelstadt are ready.


Good post. Many Buffalo fans overrate our team and underrated Toronto. Toronto never hit the bottom we did and is a few years ahead in that regard. I put very little regard to preseason games at anytime and especially a team having made all the changes this team has made this year.

#10 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:21 AM

I don't think I've ever seen the board go this hard for preseason. Good god we're hockey starved.


Speaking for myself, it's really just about having a pathological hatred for the Leafs :lol:

#11 Randall Flagg

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:24 AM

If we're really going to lean on preseason results,

 

this is definitely an improvement from the 8-1 pasting that the Leafs gave us last preseason in Buffalo :P 



#12 R_dudly

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:30 AM

No. 

I recognize it's a new coaches and system, lots of different combinations with players being tried/moved around to sort out who is going to be playing where. 

 

I think its reasonable to expect it too take some time until they solidify their core lineup and have them playing together in that new system.

 

If they still aren't clicking then I may join the Buffalo blues band  and a worrying..  



#13 d4rksabre

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:00 AM

Didn't Colorado sweep the preseason last year?

#14 GASabresFan

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:44 AM

The thing I think we should be concerned about is the kids.  Our Big 4 down in Rochester just aren't making much of a roster push.  We need at least one to break through if we aren't going to go through yet another year of losing.

 

It is pretty noteworthy that the Toronto prospects came to play and pushed us hard, but our prospects couldn't do the same.  I don't know if that means they weren't prepared, or if that means they just aren't as close to being NHL players as Toronto's kids are.  I suspect more of the latter than the former.

 

My opinion is, for all the noise being made regarding how deep our prospect pool is (or should be) thanks to 5+ years of suckage, we still don't have much beyond our new core.

5 years of drafting because of suckage would only be meaningful if we have smart people drafting.  The evidence beside the Eichel pick has been to the contrary.  Other then McCabe none of our 2nd rd picks since 2012 are NHL ready, with the exception of Bailey (who may earn a 4th line job) none have progressed to being top 9 forwards.  We also have had no players beyond the 2nd rd make an impact, with the exception of Ullmark.  All told, of the 27 picks (outside McCabe) drafted from 2012 to 2015, we have received just 84 games of NHL play from 8 different players. Bailey leads the way with 40.  We can even argue whether Reinhart or Draisaitl was the smarter choice (I would have gone with the bigger faster player) 

 

Bottomline:  We have an incompetent management through the rebuild process and the mess we see today is the result.


Edited by GASabresFan, 24 September 2017 - 11:45 AM.


#15 ShadowLiger

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:57 AM

Draisaitl wasn't faster in 2014 but hey revisionist history is fun.

I would not expect 3-7 round draft picks from 2015 or 2016 to be near nhl ready. That's a 3-5 year development timeline just to make the team and you want impact from them? It's not realistic.

Edited by ShadowLiger, 24 September 2017 - 11:57 AM.


#16 inkman

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 12:56 PM

I don't think I've ever seen the board go this hard for preseason. Good god we're hockey starved.


+1

#17 GASabresFan

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:33 PM

Draisaitl wasn't faster in 2014 but hey revisionist history is fun.

I would not expect 3-7 round draft picks from 2015 or 2016 to be near nhl ready. That's a 3-5 year development timeline just to make the team and you want impact from them? It's not realistic.

I didn't mention 2016, but there are a variety of guys (usually Euros) drafted in the later rounds as late as 2015 already established in the NHL.  Arviddson (4th rd pick in 2014) is an established star.  However the broader point remains, we are getting nothing out of myriad for young forwards beside Sam and Jack.  That doesn't bode well for the rebuild.  



#18 ShadowLiger

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 01:46 PM

I didn't mention 2016, but there are a variety of guys (usually Euros) drafted in the later rounds as late as 2015 already established in the NHL. Arviddson (4th rd pick in 2014) is an established star. However the broader point remains, we are getting nothing out of myriad for young forwards beside Sam and Jack. That doesn't bode well for the rebuild.

Haha so glad you choose Arvidsson. Ardvisson is 24, so you're mad a 24yr old who played pros in Europe looks good compared to 22 year old Bailey who's spent time in a Rochester system that was garbage. Age matters. Age matters. Age, matters. It's why Cliff Pu should excite us. It's why Casey Mittlestadt should really excite us. It's why I'm not worried a 22yr old isn't nhl ready or a 21yr old doesn't look fantastic at center after 2 games there.

#19 inkman

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 04:06 PM

No.


+1

#20 Huckleberry

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 05:55 PM

Good post. Many Buffalo fans overrate our team and underrated Toronto. Toronto never hit the bottom we did and is a few years ahead in that regard. I put very little regard to preseason games at anytime and especially a team having made all the changes this team has made this year.

 

Its pretty simple though, Toronto had some good drafts.   Their 3C is now Kadri, they have been drafting well much longer than us.

And the one year they did tank they got Rychel and Kapanen.



#21 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:01 AM

Its pretty simple though, Toronto had some good drafts.   Their 3C is now Kadri, they have been drafting well much longer than us.

And the one year they did tank they got Rychel and Kapanen.

Agreed. It appears that the hopes we were not behind Toronto in the rebuild are not true. We are probably a year or so behind them. Part of that is not just drafting by that we got Dan Abysmal instead of Babcock. I think Phil Housley will have to work extra hard this year to get these guys up to speed. Going to take a year to fix the system. 



#22 nfreeman

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 09:35 AM

Well, including 2015 in the list of subpar draft classes is certainly #Hammymath, but GA's point is valid:  the Sabres haven't drafted well.

 

XGMTM's alleged eye for talent could easily prove to be mythical and befitting of the mediocre organization from which he originated. 



#23 (E5)

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 09:37 AM

My reaction to the NHL preseason results?

 

http://www.foxsports...pe=3&grouping=1

 

If the 2016 Preseason showed the NHL fans everything, Detroit, Arizona and Colorado would have been battling for the Top seed in the NHL.

Drops mic.



#24 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 09:50 AM

Well, including 2015 in the list of subpar draft classes is certainly #Hammymath, but GA's point is validthe Sabres haven't drafted well.

 

XGMTM's alleged eye for talent could easily prove to be mythical and befitting of the mediocre organization from which he originated. 

In which drafts? 2015 and 2016 are all GMTM for sure. 2014 was a mixed bag I would guess. He needs 2 players from each draft and 1 player every 3 drafts to be a solid drafter.  We won't know until 2020 how he did. 



#25 GASabresFan

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:32 AM

Haha so glad you choose Arvidsson. Ardvisson is 24, so you're mad a 24yr old who played pros in Europe looks good compared to 22 year old Bailey who's spent time in a Rochester system that was garbage. Age matters. Age matters. Age, matters. It's why Cliff Pu should excite us. It's why Casey Mittlestadt should really excite us. It's why I'm not worried a 22yr old isn't nhl ready or a 21yr old doesn't look fantastic at center after 2 games there.


You realize Arvidsson was drafted at 20. Spent 1 year in the AHL and then at 22 was established in the NHL.
Bailey is now 22, with 2 seasons of AHL experience and he may or may not make the Sabres as a 4th liner.
Baptiste is now also 22 and won't make the Sabres.
Fasching is now 22 and also won't make the Sabres.

At some point we need draft picks to develop into NHL players. Through 2015, only Guhle and maybe Ullmark look to be on a true NHL path of all our picks outside the first rd. Sure there is time for many of these guys to still develop, but no one really stands out. 2014 draft is a disaster so far. Are there any guys there anyone projects as more then a 4th liner or bottom pairing guy? 2013, we lost Petersen, didn't sign Locke and Possler, won't sign Hurley, traded Compher and Zadorov, have Florentino on an AHL deal, and none of the other forwards are set to make an impact this season.

#26 hsif

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:33 AM

The Browns (Cleveland) were undefeated in the preseason!........ and have not won a game so far during the regular season....... so, not to worry wrt the Sabres preseason W/L record.

 

I am a Browns fan, .................... and one of the steps to recovery is to admit it.



#27 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:46 AM

You realize Arvidsson was drafted at 20. Spent 1 year in the AHL and then at 22 was established in the NHL.
Bailey is now 22, with 2 seasons of AHL experience and he may or may not make the Sabres as a 4th liner.
Baptiste is now also 22 and won't make the Sabres.
Fasching is now 22 and also won't make the Sabres.

Let me try again. Arvidsson was drafted in 2014 at the age of 20. His bday is in April so we thankfully can count years easily. in 2012/2013 He played the year in the SHL as an 19yr old pro. His draft year he played again a full pro year in the SHL. He had played 99 professional games by the time he was drafted at the age of 20. For his 21st year he played 70ahl games. In his 22nd year he played 56 NHL games and had 16pts. So he was a 4th year pro at 22 and had a 16pt season which is pretty good. At 23 he played 80games and had 61points. This is very good. However he was a 5th year pro and in his 3rd NA year so that breakout shouldn't be considered crazy. Arvidsson is one of those players I wish we had taken. 

 

Now let's compare that to Bailey. Bailey is 22 and his bday is in July making years easier again. He played his 20th and 21st year in Rochester with a split last year (52/32 Roch/Buf).  This is his 3rd year as a pro and should be a bigger year for him. We should expect that. If he makes the Sabres we should expect 30points. If he goes to Rochester we should expect almost a ppg pace but it will probably be closer to .85.9ppg. The point is you can't compare a 5th year pro to a 2nd year pro and expect the same results. Arvidsson going into year 6 whereas Bailey is going into year 3. Arvidsson will probably be the better player yes, but Bailey shouldn't be blowing up the NHL yet, he's 22. 



#28 GASabresFan

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 12:16 PM

You are proving my point. We aren't getting players from our drafts. Why wasn't a proven Euro with an expired contract high on our boards. Where are our later round gems? That is what is missing in this rebuild.

So far our in the rebuild has provided Jack, Sam, Risto, Girgensons and McCabe from our draft picks. 4 1sts and one second. Where are our Arvidsson or Connor Browns or Jake Guentzel or Rust or Matt Murray etc.. to build the depth in this organization so that we don't have to acquire guys like Pouliot?

People keep saying their coming? Maybe, but not so far and from what I've seen in this camp, we may be waiting for Pu, Nylander, Mittelstud and Asplund before we have real depth up front.

#29 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 01:12 PM

You are proving my point. We aren't getting players from our drafts. Why wasn't a proven Euro with an expired contract high on our boards. Where are our later round gems? That is what is missing in this rebuild.

So far our in the rebuild has provided Jack, Sam, Risto, Girgensons and McCabe from our draft picks. 4 1sts and one second. Where are our Arvidsson or Connor Browns or Jake Guentzel or Rust or Matt Murray etc.. to build the depth in this organization so that we don't have to acquire guys like Pouliot?

People keep saying their coming? Maybe, but not so far and from what I've seen in this camp, we may be waiting for Pu, Nylander, Mittelstud and Asplund before we have real depth up front.

Oh then we are having 2 different conversations. I thought your point was why isn't Bailey better like Ardvidsson. I think it has to do with the flux in system and the rebuilding that occurred. I would say in another year we should see those types of players start to emerge from the system, guys like Pu and Asplund. Bailey could jump this year we shall see. 



#30 GASabresFan

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:43 AM

Oh then we are having 2 different conversations. I thought your point was why isn't Bailey better like Ardvidsson. I think it has to do with the flux in system and the rebuilding that occurred. I would say in another year we should see those types of players start to emerge from the system, guys like Pu and Asplund. Bailey could jump this year we shall see. 

Now we are on the same page.  It isn't that I expect Bailey to be a good as Arvidsson, I had hoped that some of the forwards in our organization would have stepped up already to give us depth.  However, I am sadly coming to the conclusion that the depth will have to come from the 2016 and 2017 drafts when guys like Asplund, Nylander, Pu and Mittelstadt are all in fold.  In fact, if Bailey, Baptiste and Fasching don't step up at some point this season; Nylander, Asplund and Mittelstud might all pass them on the depth chart by next camp.  



#31 DarthEbriate

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:57 AM

My reaction to the NHL preseason results?

 

http://www.foxsports...pe=3&grouping=1

 

If the 2016 Preseason showed the NHL fans everything, Detroit, Arizona and Colorado would have been battling for the Top seed in the NHL.

Drops mic.

Exactly. Toronto is peaking too soon.



#32 GASabresFan

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:05 PM

Anyone worried now?

#33 qwksndmonster

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:05 PM

Anyone worried now?

lol I'm a little worried about you