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Which Vets Don't Make It Or Are Sent Down?


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#1 bob_sauve28

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:24 AM

Lots of new faces from drafts, FA and trade. Which players do you think have either played their last game for the Sabres or are in for a demotion? 

 

 

Nick D doesn't seem to fit anywhere

Larsson would seem likely to be on the bubble 

Fedun is not going to play in NHL again baring injury 

 



#2 Randall Flagg

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:25 AM

Those guys barely qualify as vets haha.

I could see Matt and Josh sitting a lot this year, probably not getting sent down though.

#3 d4rksabre

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:27 AM

I really need one of Moulson or Gorges to get demoted. 



#4 Derrico

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:29 AM

If Larsson is fully recovered from the gruesome injury I would think he is good enough to be a regular on the bottom 6.

#5 bob_sauve28

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

If Larsson is fully recovered from the gruesome injury I would think he is good enough to be a regular on the bottom 6.

I agree, but I also think there will be surprises. 



#6 North Buffalo

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:37 AM

I really like Larry, but who knows... hoping its Matty, D-Lo and Josh... Let the younger wheels have a shot.

#7 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:48 AM

Larsson is on the team, definitely.
The others are definitely on the bubble.

Contracts and status make Moulson and Gorges likely to stay; and Deslauriers remains our toughest player.
How much stock Botterill puts into those things is something we'll learn.

#8 Doohickie

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:08 AM

All the usual suspects have been named.  I saw a video discussing the longest tenured Sabres.  They included Risto, McCabe, Larry, DLo and Girgs (amazing what clearing out Foligno and Ennis did in that regard).  The Dmen in that list are locks to make the roster, projected to Top-4 spots. 

 

The status of the forwards is less clear.  Although Girgensons looks to make the roster at least to start the season, Larry and DLo are not locks to make the roster.  In an interview with DLo, he sounds like he's selling himself not so much as an "energy guy" but as a 2-way forward.  He brings value through flexibility in that he can also play D in a pinch since he's a converted defenseman.  I doubt he can raise his game much over what we've seen and will be a depth guy stored away in Rochester.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him called up to cover an injury in the bottom 6, but can't see him playing more than a couple dozen games.  Unless he really Wows Housley though, he may turn into another casualty in the management transition.

 

Larsson is truly on the bubble.  If he fits into the new system he may find a role on the big club.  But he's just one of several players that will be competing for positions.  His advantage is that he's logged significant time in the NHL and looked pretty good at times as a shut-down center.  He could hold down one of the bottom 6 center positions competently, I think.  But even he may turn out to be nothing more than a depth player who starts the season in Rochester.  The forwards brought in by JBot could crowd Larry out of the NHL roster.

 

This may be exactly what JBot has in mind:  Have a few extras, let the younger players and marginal vets compete during training camp, and let the best players play.  Hopefully the players who start the season in Rochester work to keep their games sharp for the event when they do get called up.  I would hope the adopt a Matt Ellis attitude (and display playing ability significantly above Matt Ellis level).  But every team that has aspirations of the playoffs will need good depth players available.  I hope the bubble players who don't make the opening night roster bear than in mind and do what they can to maintain their edge so when they do get called up, they'll be ready.



#9 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:18 PM

I will bet you a chicken hat that Larsson will not start the season in Rochester.

He is on a cheap, two-year contract, was easily in the top nine last year and would have to clear waivers.

 

And he'd have to drop from the 7/8 forward on the depth chart all the way to 15th.

In other words, he'd have to be worse than all of Pouliot, Josefsson, Girgensons, Deslauriers, Moulson, and Rodrigues, plus at least two of Fasching, Baptiste, Bailey, Nylander, or some other minor leaguer - each of whom he outplayed last year.


Edited by dudacek, 18 September 2017 - 12:22 PM.


#10 BRAWNDO

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:22 PM

Larsson will not clear waivers, if there is not a spot for him, I could see Botterill trading him to Pittsburgh who is looking for a third line center.

#11 Amerks8796

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:25 PM

All the vets like Deslauriers, Gorges and Moulson will make Buffalo. Deslauriers is a good 13th forward who can sit in the press box for long stretches and play here and there against a bigger or more physical team.

Just can't see any of them getting waived to Rochester. It doesn't accomplish much and creates a veteran problem in Rochester. Injuries will eventually make all of them necessary and the prospects will get their chance as well.

#12 DirtDart

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:25 PM

Those guys barely qualify as vets haha.

I could see Matt and Josh sitting a lot this year, probably not getting sent down though.

Unfortunately we are stuck with Moulson due to contract, which is a shame considering there are some young guys that could step in and take his place. Georges is a good #7 that we are paying a lot of money to ride the pine.



#13 d4rksabre

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:32 PM

My hope with Moulson is that Housley pushes him so hard that he gets hurt and ends up on LTIR. 



#14 Doohickie

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:48 PM

My hope with Moulson is that Housley pushes him so hard that he gets hurt and ends up on LTIR. 

 

The ever-famous "phantom sports hernia."



#15 French Collection

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:39 PM

My hope with Moulson is that Housley pushes him so hard that he gets hurt and ends up on LTIR.


Then the league would mount an inquest, find the Sabres guilty and crack down on this loophole. Of course it wouldn't be retroactive, so the Lupul issue would be OK.

#16 Doohickie

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

Then the league would mount an inquest, find the Sabres guilty and crack down on this loophole. Of course it wouldn't be retroactive, so the Lupul issue would be OK.

 

The ever-famous "Lupul loophole."



#17 Thorny

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:10 PM

My hope with Moulson is that Housley pushes him so hard that he gets hurt and ends up on LTIR.


I laughed. Then felt bad.


Then chuckled again.

#18 GASabresFan

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

Sexton and Jbot are smart guys and it is already showing in some very subtle ways.  

 

I looked at our potential roster for the AHL to see who might slot where, thinking this would give me an idea of which vets we could send down to the AHL and play them.  The AHL is a developmental league and has veteran rules.  According to the AHL, each team can dress only 5 players with more then 320 pro game experience (including NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL and other Euro elite league if the player was over 19), 1 player with more then 260 games but less then 320 and 12 players with 260 games or under.

 

The Sabres have 12 prospects that have under 260 games.  Bailey, Fasching, ERod, Baptiste, Cornel, Karabacek, Smtih, Nelson, Stephens, Martin, Guhle, Nylander, plus recent signees Danforth and Criscuolo.  Furthermore, and this is where Sexton and Jbot show their skills, they signed KHL vet Steve Moses.  Moses only has 228 games of pro experience, therefore can be slotted into one of the developmental slots.  Smart.

The Sabres two semi vets that slot into the 260-320 game catagory in Griffith (261) and Tennyson (283).

The Sabres have also inked 4 vets Porter and Paetsch (500 games plus each+), Fedun (331), and Josefson (338). plus have Goloubef (348) on a PTO.  

 

Granted prospects can take up all 18 skater slots each net, but it looks like the Sabres may have room to send 1-2 guys down and give them PT.  However with Paetsch, Fedun and Tennyson already slotted top play in the AHL, if anyone NHL vet gets sent down it will likely be a forward.  Delo maybe, but most likely Josefson if Reinhart is the 3rd line center.  Sorry to say Gorges and Moulson and their 8.9 mill in unproductive cap space are destined for the Sabres.



#19 Amerks8796

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:26 PM

Sexton and Jbot are smart guys and it is already showing in some very subtle ways.

I looked at our potential roster for the AHL to see who might slot where, thinking this would give me an idea of which vets we could send down to the AHL and play them. The AHL is a developmental league and has veteran rules. According to the AHL, each team can dress only 5 players with more then 320 pro game experience (including NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL and other Euro elite league if the player was over 19), 1 player with more then 260 games but less then 320 and 12 players with 260 games or under.

The Sabres have 12 prospects that have under 260 games. Bailey, Fasching, ERod, Baptiste, Cornel, Karabacek, Smtih, Nelson, Stephens, Martin, Guhle, Nylander, plus recent signees Danforth and Criscuolo. Furthermore, and this is where Sexton and Jbot show their skills, they signed KHL vet Steve Moses. Moses only has 228 games of pro experience, therefore can be slotted into one of the developmental slots. Smart.
The Sabres two semi vets that slot into the 260-320 game catagory in Griffith (261) and Tennyson (283).
The Sabres have also inked 4 vets Porter and Paetsch (500 games plus each+), Fedun (331), and Josefson (338). plus have Goloubef (348) on a PTO.

Granted prospects can take up all 18 skater slots each net, but it looks like the Sabres may have room to send 1-2 guys down and give them PT. However with Paetsch, Fedun and Tennyson already slotted top play in the AHL, if anyone NHL vet gets sent down it will likely be a forward. Delo maybe, but most likely Josefson if Reinhart is the 3rd line center. Sorry to say Gorges and Moulson and their 8.9 mill in unproductive cap space are destined for the Sabres.

I would be shocked if Josefson was sent to Rochester. Very unlikely. I also think Deslauriers will make the Sabres as the 13th forward, but he's a little more likely to be waived.

Ultimately, the Amerks veterans to start the season will likely be Griffith, Porter, Fedun, Falk, Tennyson and Paetsch. They also have Andrew MacWilliam and Conor Allen who are both veterans. Sending an additional vet down like Josefson or Deslauriers would create a bad situation and I doubt Botterill does that.

#20 dudacek

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 02:51 PM

The logjam on defence is one reason why I expect Josh Gorges is done with Sabres by opening day, pending a healthy team and newcomers performing to expectations.

#21 shrader

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:36 AM

 

I looked at our potential roster for the AHL to see who might slot where, thinking this would give me an idea of which vets we could send down to the AHL and play them.  The AHL is a developmental league and has veteran rules.  According to the AHL, each team can dress only 5 players with more then 320 pro game experience (including NHL, AHL, ECHL, KHL and other Euro elite league if the player was over 19), 1 player with more then 260 games but less then 320 and 12 players with 260 games or under.

 

This rule has caused them some trouble in recent years.  Would you happen to know if there is a cutoff date for the games played restriction?  Would it be 320 games played as of the start of the season or as of the day of the upcoming game?  It seems like it would be a roster building headache if you had a guy who had played something like 305 games so far.  Depending on how the rule is written, that guy's status would change after 15 games.



#22 Amerks8796

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:53 AM

This rule has caused them some trouble in recent years. Would you happen to know if there is a cutoff date for the games played restriction? Would it be 320 games played as of the start of the season or as of the day of the upcoming game? It seems like it would be a roster building headache if you had a guy who had played something like 305 games so far. Depending on how the rule is written, that guy's status would change after 15 games.

It's based on previous seasons. If someone crosses over midseason, they aren't considered a veteran until he next season.

#23 North Buffalo

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 10:00 AM

Then send Gorges down if he still qualifies, dont want him on bench or stands as first replacement.

#24 shrader

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:48 AM

It's based on previous seasons. If someone crosses over midseason, they aren't considered a veteran until he next season.

 

:thumbsup:



#25 Amerks8796

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 12:40 PM

Then send Gorges down if he still qualifies, dont want him on bench or stands as first replacement.

No. They're already over the vet limit. Gorges would just create an awful situation. He'll be in Buffalo.

#26 GASabresFan

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 12:47 PM

Everytime I look at the Sabres forwards, I find it hard to slot everyone and thus determine who draws the short straw because each adds something we might need. Also it may depend on whether Reinhart plays wing or center.

There are 9 guys who are making the team; Jack, Kane, Sam, KO, ROR, Pommers, Pouliot, Larry and Big Z.

I think Jbot hopes at least two jobs go to kids from a group of Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Griffith or Erod. If I'm correct, that leaves Josefson, Moulson and Delo to battle for 2 jobs. If a 3rd kid steps up, then they could be fighting for one job.

Delo's edge is he is our only fighter left. He can also skate and play D in a pinch. Won't crack the top 12, but as a 13th forward he may have use especially against very physical teams.

Josefson's edge is FO% and Pk ability. Two skills we sorely need, but he brings next to no offense.

Moulson's edge is position, experience, sadly his big contract and most importantly his PP scoring ability. If slashing calls and FO violations continue to be called in the regular season, his PP specialty takes on greater importance.

In theory, all 3 vets could make the club, but I don't this is the best interest of the Sabres long-term.

Where the issue with Reinhart comes in is if he is the 3rd center, that drops Larsson to 4th center and Josefson to 4th LW, movimg Moulson to the bench or Roch. With scoring at a premium and PP's possibly occuring in greater frequency, we just may need Moulson for one more season.

No. They're already over the vet limit. Gorges would just create an awful situation. He'll be in Buffalo.


We aren't over are veteran limit. Josefson, Griffith and Tennyson may make the Sabres and then only Porter and Paetsch count as vets under the rule. Also we have a ECHL team to stock and I think AHL teams can carry at least 26 active players because of NHL callups. Sending Falk or Gorges down shouldn't be an issue.

Yes we have some AHL only vets signed, but is it really an issue if they don't play.

#27 bob_sauve28

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

These quotes from Housley make me think Bailey will be in Rochester to start year: 

 

Justin Bailey has always wanted to be a scoring winger. Once again, he may have to change his mindset.

Just like previous coach Dan Bylsma, Housley envisions Bailey as a hard-charging forechecker who should use his 6-foot-3, 214-pound frame to his advantage.

"He's got to use his speed and physicality," Housley said. "He can be the first on the forecheck, driving a guy out and making his presence being felt."

When the Sabres met Pittsburgh on Tuesday in Pegula Ice Arena at Penn State, Bailey and left wing Seth Griffith were the only two skaters who were also in Monday's lineup. Griffith had a goal on three shot attempts against the Hurricanes. Bailey had one shot in 11:13 of ice time.

"He's got to use his speed," Housley said. "The one thing that I really saw and liked was his tracking. He had a great track back and disrupted a play at our blue line. That's what his speed can do, not only offensively but defensively.

"Getting a lot more time on the penalty kill, I think that's going to help his game."

 

http://buffalonews.c...utdoor-tickets/



#28 Amerks8796

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 12:54 PM

Everytime I look at the Sabres forwards, I find it hard to slot everyone and thus determine who draws the short straw because each adds something we might need. Also it may depend on whether Reinhart plays wing or center.

There are 9 guys who are making the team; Jack, Kane, Sam, KO, ROR, Pommers, Pouliot, Larry and Big Z.

I think Jbot hopes at least two jobs go to kids from a group of Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Griffith or Erod. If I'm correct, that leaves Josefson, Moulson and Delo to battle for 2 jobs. If a 3rd kid steps up, then they could be fighting for one job.

Delo's edge is he is our only fighter left. He can also skate and play D in a pinch. Won't crack the top 12, but as a 13th forward he may have use especially against very physical teams.

Josefson's edge is FO% and Pk ability. Two skills we sorely need, but he brings next to no offense.

Moulson's edge is position, experience, sadly his big contract and most importantly his PP scoring ability. If slashing calls and FO violations continue to be called in the regular season, his PP specialty takes on greater importance.

In theory, all 3 vets could make the club, but I don't this is the best interest of the Sabres long-term.

Where the issue with Reinhart comes in is if he is the 3rd center, that drops Larsson to 4th center and Josefson to 4th LW, movimg Moulson to the bench or Roch. With scoring at a premium and PP's possibly occuring in greater frequency, we just may need Moulson for one more season.

We aren't over are veteran limit. Josefson, Griffith and Tennyson may make the Sabres and then only Porter and Paetsch count as vets under the rule. Also we have a ECHL team to stock and I think AHL teams can carry at least 26 active players because of NHL callups. Sending Falk or Gorges down shouldn't be an issue.

Yes we have some AHL only vets signed, but is it really an issue if they don't play.

Josefson is making Buffalo. Tennyson has almost no chance. The Amerks are actually 2 over the vet limit now by my estimation of who gets sent down. Gorges would make them 3 over. Veterans include: Porter, Griffith, Falk, Fedun, Tennyson, Paetsch, MacWilliam and Allen.

#29 GASabresFan

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

Josefson is making Buffalo. Tennyson has almost no chance. The Amerks are actually 2 over the vet limit now by my estimation of who gets sent down. Gorges would make them 3 over. Veterans include: Porter, Griffith, Falk, Fedun, Tennyson, Paetsch, MacWilliam and Allen.


Griffith and Tennyson qualify for the 13th developmental slot. I actually disagree on Tennyson. As a RD i think he could win a 3rd pairing slot, with Antipin on the bench to start the season.

Also if AHL vets like Allen and MacWilliam start in the pressbox so that better players can play is that such a bad thing?

#30 Amerks8796

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 03:32 PM

Griffith and Tennyson qualify for the 13th developmental slot. I actually disagree on Tennyson. As a RD i think he could win a 3rd pairing slot, with Antipin on the bench to start the season.

Also if AHL vets like Allen and MacWilliam start in the pressbox so that better players can play is that such a bad thing?

Goloubef would likely stick over Tennyson. He was signed as depth to start in Rochester.

#31 Pokey Jones

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:00 PM

Who are the slowest of the vets - that's your answer as to who doesn't make it.

 

Moulson and Gorges won't be sent down but I sure hope they don't make the opening night roster. 



#32 dudacek

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:17 PM

Goloubef would likely stick over Tennyson. He was signed as depth to start in Rochester.

You meant Tennyson for Rochester, right?

That was my take: another Fedun and Falk type to fill in in Buffalo in a pinch and be really good for Roch.

I guess he could beat out Gorges and Antipin, but given his NHL career so far I hope not.

 

Goloubef doesnt have a contract.



#33 Amerks8796

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:21 PM

You meant Tennyson for Rochester, right?
That was my take: another Fedun and Falk type to fill in in Buffalo in a pinch and be really good for Roch.
I guess he could beat out Gorges and Antipin, but given his NHL career so far I hope not.

Goloubef doesnt have a contract.

I was referring to Tennyson. Goloubef could earn a contract. The 7 D in Buffalo is pretty set in stone. Ristolainen, McCabe, Scandella, Bealieu, Bogosian, Antipin, Gorges.

#34 ShadowLiger

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:28 PM

Yea but you gotta be happy with the Americans depth. Botterill did a ton for Rochester.

#35 Amerks8796

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:49 PM

Yea but you gotta be happy with the Americans depth. Botterill did a ton for Rochester.

Yes extremely happy. Nice to have a GM actually care about the Amerks. Should be a good team.

#36 ShadowLiger

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 06:50 PM

Yes extremely happy. Nice to have a GM actually care about the Amerks. Should be a good team.

:)