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Duchene to Sabres?


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#1 sweetlou

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

I know the rumor was started on HockeyBuzz who I don't trust. It was also talked about on Instigators by Rivet and Peters, but this morning I began to think why not?

 

So ROR's last year with Colorado he played with Duchene and they both had their best years as pros. 

ROR- 28 goals, 36 assist= 64 points

Duchene- 23 goals, 47 assist= 70 points

 

So who would Buffalo have to give up, and would they be able to keep him long term past the two years he is signed for? Would they be able to keep Kane and Duchene?

 

Colorado is going no where for the next couple of years and wants prospects.

 

Nylander, any D prospect not named Guhle, and conditional pick in 2020 for Duchene?  If he resigns with Buffalo it becomes a first rd pick in 2020, if he is not resigned then it is a third rd pick.

 

 

Lineup-

 

Duchene- Eichel- Okposo

Kane- ROR- Reinhart

Pouliot- Josefson- Pomminstein

Girgensons- Larsson- Bailey

 

 

 

 



#2 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:10 AM

There's a reason Duchene hasn't moved yet, and it's because it would cost us 

 

Nylander + Risto + ??

 

And no, that's not an exaggeration 



#3 d4rksabre

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:12 AM

There's no way Colorado lets us take them to the cleaners again. 



#4 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:12 AM

There's a reason Duchene hasn't moved yet, and it's because it would cost us 

 

Nylander + Risto + ??

 

And no, that's not an exaggeration 

Or Reinhart and Nylander plus a 3rd or something.

 

 

A 1st round pick in 2020 is pretty worthless to a team. At best you could lottery protect your 2018 pick or tell them they get 2019. 3 years out though, I wouldn't do that as a GM. 



#5 jeffismagic

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:12 AM

Please God no.



#6 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

There's no way Colorado lets us take them to the cleaners again. 

That's actually been reported (TSN guys) as a huge reason Colorado wants so much. We fleeced them so bad they don't just not want it to happen again, they want to make up for it. 



#7 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:13 AM

That's actually been reported (TSN guys) as a huge reason Colorado wants so much. We fleeced them so bad they don't just not want it to happen again, they want to make up for it. 

Another reason not to trade with them. 



#8 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:19 AM

They might bite on Nylander + MiddleSEX (we really need to pump up the hype ... maybe tell them that he is a shoe in for the Hobey Baker and a Nobel) and our 1st in 2018, which may be lotto worthy.


Please God no.

 

Turd ... meet punch bowl .........


Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 10 August 2017 - 08:18 AM.


#9 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:21 AM

They might bite on Nylander + MiddleSEX (we really need to pump up the hype ... maybe tell them that he is a shoe in for the Hobey Baker and a Nobel) and our 1st in 2018, which may be lotto worthy.


 

Turd ... meet punch bowl .........

I wouldn't trade 2 sub 20 year olds on a rebuilding team for a 26 year old about to hit UFA status. That is just a bad plan in the cap world. Especially when your star is only 20. 



#10 jeffismagic

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:24 AM

They might bite on Nylander + MiddleSEX (we really need to pump up the hype ... maybe tell them that he is a shoe in for the Hobey Baker and a Nobel) and our 1st in 2018, which may be lotto worthy.


 

Turd ... meet punch bowl .........

 

So you would trade Nylander AND Mittlestadt for Duchene?


I wouldn't trade 2 sub 20 year olds on a rebuilding team for a 26 year old about to hit UFA status. That is just a bad plan in the cap world. Especially when your star is only 20. 

 

Well said.



#11 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:24 AM

I wouldn't trade 2 sub 20 year olds on a rebuilding team for a 26 year old about to hit UFA status. That is just a bad plan in the cap world. Especially when your star is only 20. 

 

Are sign and trades a thing in the NHL like in bouncy ball?



#12 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:25 AM

So you would trade Nylander AND Mittlestadt for Duchene?

 

I wouldn't trade 2 sub 20 year olds on a rebuilding team for a 26 year old about to hit UFA status. That is just a bad plan in the cap world. Especially when your star is only 20. 

 

Pretty sure NS is being sarcastic 



#13 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:26 AM

So you would trade Nylander AND Mittlestadt for Duchene?


 

Well said.

 

Yes.  I would provided he was signed long-term either before, or as part of, the trade (somehow ... see above).



#14 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:27 AM

Yes.  I would provided he was signed long-term either before, or as part of, the trade (somehow ... see above).

Or maybe not :lol:



#15 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:27 AM

Pretty sure NS is being sarcastic 

 

Nope.  Well, maybe the part about the Hobey Baker and Nobel.



#16 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:31 AM

Yes.  I would provided he was signed long-term either before, or as part of, the trade (somehow ... see above).

I wouldn't make that trade under any circumstances currently. 


Are sign and trades a thing in the NHL like in bouncy ball?

Doesn't matter if you could sign him to an extension b4 the trade. The fact is he will be paid like a 27 year old UFA with decent career numbers, probably about 7or more million. Or you can have Mittelstadt and Nylander on entry level deals making combined less than that. It is cap economics. 

 

Also his deal is for 2 more years. You can't negotiate or at least have him sign a contract until July 1, 2018. That means we would have to wait until this offseason to make this trade and my gut says we won't make this trade in the offseason or even remotely want to. 



#17 jeffismagic

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:33 AM

Duchene might improve the team next year more than Nylander and Middlestadt but I would expect those players to hold more value longer and the goal is to win a Cup. Duchene does not put us over the top so I would rather roll with players closer in age to our superstar center.



#18 Drunkard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:33 AM

Are sign and trades a thing in the NHL like in bouncy ball?

 

I think they are allowed but no one uses them anyway. It wouldn't be possible for Colorado to do it right now anyway though. By rule you can't start negotiating a contract extension until the final season of their deal so the earliest Duchene can be extended is July 1, 2018.



#19 GASabresFan

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:34 AM

It's such a TM type move.  I hope Jbot is to smart for such a deal.  Why do we want to pick up another $6 mill cap hit for a player from a loser organization?  Enough of these kind of deals.  We can no longer mortgage the future to try to win yesterday.  

 

Also didn't Duchene center for ROR that "great" season?



#20 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 08:36 AM

It's such a TM type move.  I hope Jbot is to smart for such a deal.  Why do we want to pick up another $6 mill cap hit for a player from a loser organization?  Enough of these kind of deals.  We can no longer mortgage the future to try to win yesterday.  

 

Also didn't Duchene center for ROR that "great" season?

Yup, that is what I thought. 



#21 North Buffalo

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:20 AM

Id consider giving up Reinhart and Nylander but not Middlestat... Casey has too much heart, still not sure I'd do it and forget about first rounder.

#22 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:26 AM

It screws our cap if you do it. Better to have the cheap talent. 



#23 Randall Flagg

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:34 AM

This guy gave the same rumor rating to "Kane to Boston" earlier this summer.

#24 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:36 AM

Matt Duchene remains among the more overrated players in the league. He's a prime example of valuing flash over substance.

#25 CallawaySabres

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:50 AM

Worst move ever. Keep our youth and let this team grow into the Cup contender 3 years from now



#26 Drunkard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 09:51 AM

It screws our cap if you do it. Better to have the cheap talent. 

 

This. We need to take advantage of gaining top tier production out of bottom tier salaries if we ever want to make a serious push for the Cup. Bringing in Duchene would essentially cost us Kane next season (2018-2019) and then we wouldn't have any blue chip help coming in from the farm. Sure guys like Pu and Asplund should be able to contribute in the coming years but they don't have the ceilings that Nylander and Mittelstadt do.



#27 We've

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:19 AM

I wouldn't trade 2 sub 20 year olds on a rebuilding team for a 26 year old about to hit UFA status. That is just a bad plan in the cap world. Especially when your star is only 20.


One minor point.... If you are trading for Duchene you arent a rebuilding team. You are a win now team.

I think we should be considered a win now team. Not sure I'd make the trade though.

#28 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:30 AM

One minor point.... If you are trading for Duchene you arent a rebuilding team. You are a win now team.

I think we should be considered a win now team. Not sure I'd make the trade though.

Brand new GM, brand new HC, and #2, #2, #8, #8 picks in the last 4 years, and we're a win now team?



#29 pi2000

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:49 AM

I love his offensive skill, but he's a liability as reflected in his negative TRpm on a BAD team.      Meaning his team was slightly worse with him on the ice than it was with him off the ice. 

 

If BUF needed a boost to their power play, then it might make more sense, but they don't.


Edited by pi2000, 10 August 2017 - 11:50 AM.


#30 Drunkard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:50 AM

Brand new GM, brand new HC, and #2, #2, #8, #8 picks in the last 4 years, and we're a win now team?

 

We need to become one quick. No sense in waiting 3 years to make the push. At that point Okposo will be 32 and in decline, Kane may be long gone, and O'Reilly will be 29 and likely starting to decline.



#31 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:51 AM

We need to become one quick. No sense in waiting 3 years to make the push. At that point Okposo will be 32 and in decline, Kane may be long gone, and O'Reilly will be 29 and likely starting to decline.

I think you need to make the playoffs this year, then you are a win now team in the next 2-3 years



#32 sweetlou

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:59 PM

There's a reason Duchene hasn't moved yet, and it's because it would cost us 

 

Nylander + Risto + ??

 

And no, that's not an exaggeration 

Are you kidding me...it would not take that much to get Duchene.  He clearly is not going to sign an extension with Colorado and he becomes a UFA in two years.  Colorado is rebuilding and they want to save money and build for the future.  

 

Remember last year how Hall got traded from Edmonton to Jersey for Larsson.  

That is like us getting Duchene for McCabe.  

 

So this proposal is a lot better for Colorado then what Edmonton got, and I would argue that Hall is better then Duchene.



#33 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:59 PM

One minor point.... If you are trading for Duchene you arent a rebuilding team. You are a win now team.

I think we should be considered a win now team. Not sure I'd make the trade though.

no we aren't. Win now teams are teams like Washington where their star player is in his mid to late 20's and you are only going to get peak production from them for another 3-5 years so you have to take your shot. Eichel hasn't even reached his peak. We are a rebuilding team. We should take a good step this season that we would have taken last year if Dan Bylsma didn't suck and Jack didn't get Zemgused.

 

In Washington's example, their stars are 29, 31, and thus entering years where their production may start to drop. They are in win now. ROR is only 25 and Jack is 20.  We aren't in win now mode. 


Edited by ShadowLiger, 10 August 2017 - 01:12 PM.


#34 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 01:04 PM

Are you kidding me...it would not take that much to get Duchene.  He clearly is not going to sign an extension with Colorado and he becomes a UFA in two years.  Colorado is rebuilding and they want to save money and build for the future.  
 
Remember last year how Hall got traded from Edmonton to Jersey for Larsson.  
That is like us getting Duchene for McCabe.  
 
So this proposal is a lot better for Colorado then what Edmonton got, and I would argue that Hall is better then Duchene.

 

Darren Dreger this week noted Sakic’s asking price is “definitely the holdup,” and that “the ask depends on the team that Joe Sakic is negotiating with, or the team that has expressed interest. I’ve heard that it’s been as high as a couple of first-round picks, or at least a first-round pick and a former first-round draft pick who’s now a young NHL prospect, and then some and then some.”
 
Dreger indicated that he didn’t blame Sakic for a second, and that the GM was “holding on to a blue-chip asset.”
 
Dreger | Mother lode contract did not materialize for Shattenkirk
 
The most specific description of Sakic’s believed asking price came from Bob McKenzie in February, nearly a month before the trade deadline.
 
“Everybody knows the price of poker,” said McKenzie at the time. “That is either three high-end pieces or four high-end pieces. By high-end pieces we mean this:
 
“If it’s three high-end pieces, we’re talking about a player that’s established in the NHL already – between 20-24 years of age – as well as a first-round pick, as well as a top prospect.
 
“If the young NHL isn’t established, if it’s all prospects, then the price goes up to those four high-end pieces.”


https://www.fanragsp...rade-situation/

 

 

I've been posting these articles for months, the asking price has been very well documented.



#35 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 01:10 PM

Yup. We are talking a roster player, top prospect, and a pick. 



#36 nfreeman

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 01:18 PM

Hmmm...McCabe and their 2018 first-rounder for Duchene?

 

I think the Sabres would need to unload a real salary in the deal, so...

 

McCabe and Kane?

 

McCabe and Okposo?

 

McCabe, Okposo and the 2018 #1?

 

I don't think Colorado would accept any of the above.



#37 sweetlou

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 01:29 PM

And notice how Duchene is still in Colorado?? Until Sakic comes down in his asking price he will be stuck with Duchene until trade deadline of his UFA year. 


Would you be interested in Landeskog?


Edited by sweetlou, 10 August 2017 - 01:30 PM.


#38 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:16 PM

And notice how Duchene is still in Colorado?? Until Sakic comes down in his asking price he will be stuck with Duchene until trade deadline of his UFA year. 


Would you be interested in Landeskog?

Well you're right, he won't be moved until the asking price comes down. But right now, that's what it would cost us.

 

Ultimately I think he comes down just a little, and Duchene is moved before the season starts.

 

And no, I do not want Landeskog. I want nobody from there outside of their top prospect, MacKinnon, and Barrie. 



#39 ShadowLiger

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:22 PM

Well you're right, he won't be moved until the asking price comes down. But right now, that's what it would cost us.

 

Ultimately I think he comes down just a little, and Duchene is moved before the season starts.

 

And no, I do not want Landeskog. I want nobody from there outside of their top prospect, MacKinnon, and Barrie. 

They have Cale Makar and Connor Timmins.... 



#40 WildCard

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 02:26 PM

They have Cale Makar and Connor Timmins.... 

And Tyson Jost, and Rantanen. Though I guess the latter really isn't a prospect any longer