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How much should Kane' s extension be?


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Poll: How much should Kane' s extension be?

How long should the exension be for?

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How much $ should the extension offer be?

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#281 d4rksabre

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:51 PM

I think there is a simpler argument that is being missed. Do you want to keep this team basically the same as it was, blame everything on the coach that was fired and somehow hope that everyone will be magically better under the new coach and stay healthy and exceed their current peaks OR do you think the team was rubbish and needs a bigger overhaul and more new bodies?

There are points that can be made for both sides, but I think it is the latter, and in that scenario you trade a guy who had a peak season while his value is higher than it will be if he gets injured or drops off or has off ice problems ("because he's Kane") and you do it now since GMs have started to wise up to the deadline deals and prices the last two years have started to drop on trade deadline day not rise.

Bottom line is this team was dull rubbish last year. Uninspiring and often lacking. lacking in effort, desire, character, identity, ability etc etc etc. Blame who you want, but I as a fan am sick of losing. We are like the Cleveland Browns of the nhl and I'm sick of it.


This team really isn't "basically the same" but okay

#282 Thorny

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:51 PM

Teams are dumb in UFA every year. Just because some gm is willing to pay him doesn't mean that's smart. The gm lining up statement is a false argument.


Like I said, there might very well be a GM that does. But we don't know that to a certainty. Therefore I'll continue opining on signing Kane to an extension that doesn't involve a 7 million AAV.

Edited by Thorny, 19 September 2017 - 05:53 PM.


#283 ShadowLiger

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:55 PM

Like I said, there might very well be a GM that does. But we don't know that to a certainty. Therefore I'll continue opining on signing Kane to an extension.

Ok but why call out ppl who don't want to sign him but think he'll get paid elsewhere?

#284 Thorny

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:57 PM

Ok but why call out ppl who don't want to sign him but think he'll get paid elsewhere?


When did I do this?

I simply said there are people that think he'll get an amount in FA that I'm not positive he'll get. I didn't call anyone out or challenge them to a duel.

..but I have my slapping glove here beside me, if anyone has the cajones.

Edited by Thorny, 19 September 2017 - 05:59 PM.


#285 ShadowLiger

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 05:59 PM

dudacek has brought forth my favourite point on the matter multiple times: lots of people don't want to pay Kane, but those same people generally think there'll be teams lining up to get him paid.

Maybe there'll be a GM that goes overboard.


Yes I don't want to pay Kane but I can see 2-3 teams lining up to give him 6 years x7 mil or something.

#286 Thorny

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:01 PM

Yes I don't want to pay Kane but I can see 2-3 teams lining up to give him 6 years x7 mil or something.


That's not calling people out. If I call someone out, it usually ends in, "School Yard, Flag pole, 3 O'Clock. Be there or be square."

#287 nfreeman

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:01 PM

I will be somewhat surprised if Kane doesn't get a 5-year offer from someone and very surprised if he doesn't get a 4-year offer -- in each case, at $5.75MM per year or higher.

#288 Thorny

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:04 PM

Yes I don't want to pay Kane but I can see 2-3 teams lining up to give him 6 years x7 mil or something.


Agree on suitors and term. In my view I don't see him getting 7 mil, looking at the contracts handed out to other wingers of his caliber.

Edited by Thorny, 19 September 2017 - 06:05 PM.


#289 qwksndmonster

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:09 PM

I think Kane started off bad with us: showing very little awareness and often wasting possession with low percentage shots. But last year he looked good with skill players and seemed to display increased awareness. He needs to keep trending up in this area to get a big deal with the Sabres. Dudacek has advocated for a Kane-Reinhart pairing for a while now. I'd like to see that.

#290 Thorny

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:16 PM

I agree with all of that.

I'm expecting Michael Bay-Level explosions from your #10,000.

#291 Huckleberry

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:19 PM

I'd still give him 5x6 mil, but doubt he wants to hang around in Buffalo.   

The guy wants to play for the canucks.



#292 dudacek

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:21 PM

What will he get at FA?

 

 

I think Kane is more or less worth his current contract. And I'd be hesitant to give him more than five years.
I think it is likely someone gives him $6 million over six.

Either total could change though, based on this year.

 

As discussed up thread, $7 million makes him among the highest-paid wings in hockey.

In a world where Okposo got $6 million and Lucic got $6 million as better, safer players, why do you think a baggage-packing 25-goal 40-point man will get $7 million?


Edited by dudacek, 19 September 2017 - 06:30 PM.


#293 ericcomposer72

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:14 PM

I also think this conversation is premature. Like Reinhart, JBOT looks to be taking a wait and see approach to Kane.  I'm sure he wants to gauge his attitude both on and off the ice and wants to see his chemistry with Jack and maybe Sam (if at center) before even beginning contract talks.  

 

If Kane stays healthy and plays well, then it may be an easy choice for Jbot to try to keep him.  It will likely mean that Kane has developed good chemistry with one of the centers and the team is thriving under the new system.   

 

I 100% agree.

 

I also expect this team to make the playoffs. I think those with the "ship him out at the deadline" will be sorely disappointed. I can see him being an asset to us in the playoffs.



#294 Doohickie

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 01:19 PM

And who knows?  Maybe Housley is grooming Bailey to be the next Kane.  If it takes, they can trade Kane at the deadline for picks/prospects.



#295 ShadowLiger

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 04:47 PM

If you can get for 4 years under 6 mil and I see him work well with Jack, I might bite.

#296 ericcomposer72

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 04:54 PM

If you can get for 4 years under 6 mil and I see him work well with Jack, I might bite.

 

count me in. As long as they show chemistry. They looked great last night, from the highlights I saw.



#297 ShadowLiger

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:55 AM

So.... Kane, wonder if he would sign a short term (3-4 year deal at like 6.5) to stay in Buffalo. 



#298 Marions Piazza

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:02 AM

And who knows?  Maybe Housley is grooming Bailey to be the next Kane.  If it takes, they can trade Kane at the deadline for picks/prospects.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, Bailey has showed virtually nothing to prove he belongs in the NHL for anything more than the 3rd line.  I'm not saying that it can't happen, but, chances are he's not coming close to Kane's output at the NHL level.  I do hope i am wrong on that though, I'll gladly eat crow.



#299 Doohickie

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:41 AM

I think that's a bit of a stretch, Bailey has showed virtually nothing to prove he belongs in the NHL for anything more than the 3rd line.  I'm not saying that it can't happen, but, chances are he's not coming close to Kane's output at the NHL level.  I do hope i am wrong on that though, I'll gladly eat crow.

 

That post was also made a couple weeks ago, a couple days into preseason.  It was a thought.  Maybe, just maybe, Bailey will spend some time in Rochester trying to develop that role and if he comes up (when Kane inevitably gets injured) and does well, it could make him an option.

 

I have no problem with signing Kane to an extension, but I'm also okay with moving him for assets.  It doesn't hurt to consider what the backfill plan is.



#300 Marions Piazza

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:47 AM

That post was also made a couple weeks ago, a couple days into preseason.  It was a thought.  Maybe, just maybe, Bailey will spend some time in Rochester trying to develop that role and if he comes up (when Kane inevitably gets injured) and does well, it could make him an option.

 

I have no problem with signing Kane to an extension, but I'm also okay with moving him for assets.  It doesn't hurt to consider what the backfill plan is.

My bad, I didnt realize the date of that, i think we were all hoping to see more improvement from guys like Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching etc. too bad it didnt happen, yet i suppose.

 

I am of the opinion that the Sabres will be on the playoff bubble all season, it'll be a tough pill to swallow considering trading your top LW at the deadline when you are 'in the hunt' or in a playoff position.  



#301 Doohickie

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:28 AM

Tough pill for sure, but if anyone steps up in Rochester during the season that can backfill him, it would be better to get a pick or two for him than to get to next summer and he signs somewhere else and the Sabres get nothing.  I like his play, always skates hard, but if he can't fit into the cap box he will have to go.



#302 Taro T

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 10:34 AM

Tough pill for sure, but if anyone steps up in Rochester during the season that can backfill him, it would be better to get a pick or two for him than to get to next summer and he signs somewhere else and the Sabres get nothing.  I like his play, always skates hard, but if he can't fit into the cap box he will have to go.


Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.

#303 Doohickie

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:06 AM

I hope he isn't.  But I've also gotten attached to players that got sold off at the deadline. I have to consider both options are possible.



#304 Drunkard

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 12:58 PM

So.... Kane, wonder if he would sign a short term (3-4 year deal at like 6.5) to stay in Buffalo. 

 

I think there's almost no chance Kane would sign for such a short term. Why would he? Guys in their 30's get handed 5-8 year deals like it's nothing while he's only 26. Given the fact that he's had injuries just about every season he's the last guy who should look at signing a short term deal.


If you'd rather see him walk rather than offer him an Okposo type deal, that's understandable. Suggesting he should leave 20 or so million on the table is basically saying we should let him walk or trade him though.



#305 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 01:39 PM

Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.


My interpretation (maybe I'm projecting here) is that people aren't saying we *can't* afford him, rather, questioning the wisdom of doing so (for a variety of reasons).

#306 Drunkard

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:29 PM

Why does everyone assume Kane will be unaffordable?

Eichel, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, & McCabe are on good contracts. Gorges contract goes away & Moulson almost definitely will be traded.

 

I don't think he accept a low ball offer on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.


Edited by Drunkard, 04 October 2017 - 02:39 PM.


#307 ShadowLiger

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:29 PM

I don't think he accept a low ball offers on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.

I might try for 6.25 x 5 and see if he bites. 



#308 Drunkard

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:42 PM

I might try for 6.25 x 5 and see if he bites. 

 

He won't. Why would a 26 year old UFA sign only a 5 year deal when guys in their lates 20's and even early 30's sign longer deals? He's not going to leave that much money on the table.



#309 ShadowLiger

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:44 PM

He won't. Why would a 26 year old UFA sign only a 5 year deal when guys in their lates 20's and even early 30's sign longer deals? He's not going to leave that much money on the table.

Depends on how much he likes Buffalo, Jack, and the Sabres. Also we're all living in the parallel universe where because Buffalo means good things... so Because Buffalo. 

 

Why did the Falcons lose? Because Buffalo

Why did the Sabres get Jack for cheaper? Because Buffalo. 



#310 Doohickie

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:47 PM

we're all living in the parallel universe where because Buffalo means good things... so Because Buffalo. 

 

Why did the Falcons lose? Because Buffalo

Why did the Sabres get Jack for cheaper? Because Buffalo. 

 

The dream that becomes a nightmare when you wake up!



#311 Drunkard

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:07 PM

Depends on how much he likes Buffalo, Jack, and the Sabres. Also we're all living in the parallel universe where because Buffalo means good things... so Because Buffalo. 

 

Why did the Falcons lose? Because Buffalo

Why did the Sabres get Jack for cheaper? Because Buffalo. 

 

I don't think the Sabres got Eichel for cheap at all. If he played this season and put up 80+ points and then signed for $10 million per then I'd probably say we got him for a discount. $10 million per season based on the two seasons he has played for us isn't a bargain right now, even though it could potentially become one.

 

You know who's got a bargain of a contract? Mark Schiefele. $6.1 million for a ppg 1st line center who will be in his prime for the duration of the contract. I'm hoping we can lock Reinhart up to a similar deal and he turns out to be just as productive.


Edited by Drunkard, 04 October 2017 - 03:08 PM.


#312 Radar

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:31 PM

I don't think he accept a low ball offer on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.


I think that's what it will take. Still worry about 7years. His off ice stuff still fresh in my mind but maybe by this trade deadline I'll feel more easy about that.

#313 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:37 PM

Again, whether Kane gets an extension from depends on almost to many factors to count such as:

1) is he playing well?  Has he developed real chemistry with Jack (or Sam)

2) Is he staying healthy

3) is the team playing well with him in the lineup and are we a contender for the playoffs

4) How are possible replacements like Nylander and Bailey doing on the farm?

5) What are his contract demand both in $ and term.

6) Even if those demands are "reasonable", can Jbot fit him in under the cap?

7) What are contending team offering in trade at the deadline?

 

etc....

 

Until some or all the answers to these questions (and others) become clearer, Jbot is in no hurry to re-sign him.  Also you can forget 7 year term.  Given his history of physical style of play, periodic bad attitude, inconsistent play and injuries, I doubt any sensible GM is going sign a deal to a 26 year old player with his history to a 7 year deal.  I'll be shocked if he get more then a 5 year deal.



#314 MattPie

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:39 PM

 

Until some or all the answers to these questions (and others) become clearer, Jbot is in no hurry to re-sign him.  Also you can forget 7 year term.  Given his history of physical style of play, periodic bad attitude, inconsistent play and injuries, I doubt any sensible GM is going sign a deal to a 26 year old player with his history to a 7 year deal.  I'll be shocked if he get more then a 5 year deal.

 

It only takes one non-sensible GM to offer $7M x 7 years, I think there's at least one out of 31.



#315 nfreeman

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:48 PM

Again, whether Kane gets an extension from depends on almost to many factors to count such as:

1) is he playing well?  Has he developed real chemistry with Jack (or Sam)

2) Is he staying healthy

3) is the team playing well with him in the lineup and are we a contender for the playoffs

4) How are possible replacements like Nylander and Bailey doing on the farm?

5) What are his contract demand both in $ and term.

6) Even if those demands are "reasonable", can Jbot fit him in under the cap?

7) What are contending team offering in trade at the deadline?

 

etc....

 

Until some or all the answers to these questions (and others) become clearer, Jbot is in no hurry to re-sign him.  Also you can forget 7 year term.  Given his history of physical style of play, periodic bad attitude, inconsistent play and injuries, I doubt any sensible GM is going sign a deal to a 26 year old player with his history to a 7 year deal.  I'll be shocked if he get more then a 5 year deal.

 

 

I agree with most of this, although I think the "Bailey as a potential replacement" concept (and you are far from alone in mentioning it) is crazy.  The guy hasn't made an NHL roster yet despite multiple chances -- there is almost zero possibility that he becomes a 25+ goal scorer.



#316 Taro T

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 04:55 PM

I don't think he accept a low ball offer on term or money. I'd offer him something around the Okposo deal ($6m x 7 years) and hope he accepts it. If he wants significantly more than that I trade him at the deadline for the best offer available.


And, especially if the actual $'s are front loaded, that's a reasonable, affordable deal that he can spend years 6 & 7 on LTIR either in Buffalo or elsewhere in a worst case.

#317 dudacek

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:20 PM

I agree with most of this, although I think the "Bailey as a potential replacement" concept (and you are far from alone in mentioning it) is crazy. The guy hasn't made an NHL roster yet despite multiple chances -- there is almost zero possibility that he becomes a 25+ goal scorer.

I'm not a big believer in Bailey, but in Mark Stone's 21-year-old season he had 4 goals in 19 games with Ottawa and 15 in 37 games in the AHL. Mike Hoffman 21 goals in the AHL and played just one game in the NHL . Pretty Bailey-eque numbers.

Stone broke out in the NHL in his third pro season. Hoffman spent most of his in the minors again, but each turned into NHL scorers.

I'm not counting on it, but it does happen.

Edited by dudacek, 04 October 2017 - 08:25 PM.


#318 ShadowLiger

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:23 PM

Im willing to give basically all our prospects another year. 



#319 GASabresIUFAN

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:53 PM

Bailey, Nylander, Mittelstud, or whomever.  It just matters whether or not Jbot thinks he can get similar production or even reasonable production from a cheaper option.  

 

I outlined our Cap situation for 2018-2019 in another thread and if we can't get out from under Bogo and Moulson next season, Jbot maybe forced to let either Lehner or Kane walk after this season.



#320 Pokey Jones

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 12:52 AM

It's all going to depend on how good Kane is this season. If he's great with jack they'll find a way, but if he's not yes, he might be a cap casualty.