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How much should Kane' s extension be?


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Poll: How much should Kane' s extension be?

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#201 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:49 AM

wow, you guys should be GM's. If only they all had your math skills.

I always thought so



#202 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:54 AM

The Kane argument is never about ability, it's about value for your money in a cap world.
He's a good player.

#203 ShadowLiger

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:55 AM

The Kane argument is never about ability, it's about value for your money in a cap world.
He's a good player.

 

giphy.gif


Edited by ShadowLiger, 18 September 2017 - 10:56 AM.


#204 ericcomposer72

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:56 AM

So, let's sum it up:

 

  • Kane kept his nose clean recently, but he probably will do something crazy off the ice again, because he's Kane.
  • No one has reported any locker room problems with him, but he probably is a problem in the locker room, because he's Kane
  • He's scored on a 30-goal pace last year in a bad system for offense, but he probably won't again this year, because of math and the fact that he's Kane
  • He could probably get 6-7mil on the open market, but we shouldn't give it to him, because he's Kane
  • He and Eichel had their best offensive production when they played together, but that's not called chemistry, because he's Kane
  • Chemistry and a chance to play with one of the best players in the league notwithstanding, he won't want to stay in Buffalo, because he's Kane

Am I finally getting it?


The Kane argument is never about ability, it's about value for your money in a cap world.
He's a good player.

 

Agree 100%

 

But most are diminishing the latter


Edited by ericcomposer72, 18 September 2017 - 10:57 AM.


#205 ShadowLiger

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:58 AM

No you are definitely not getting it. 



#206 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 10:59 AM

So, let's sum it up:

  • He's scored on a 30-goal pace last year in a bad system for offense, but he probably won't again this year, because of math and the fact that he's Kane
  • He could probably get 6-7mil on the open market, but we shouldn't give it to him, because he'll get $7M+ because he's Kane
  • He and Eichel had their best offensive production when they played together, but that's not called chemistry, because they play different styles because he's Kane
  • Chemistry and a chance to play with one of the best players in the league notwithstanding, he won't want to stay in Buffalo, because he is from Vancouver and publicly posts his love for things Buffalo cannot offer; night life, events, etc. because he's Kane

Am I finally getting it?


 

Agree 100%


No you are definitely not getting it. 

because he's Kane



#207 ShadowLiger

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:04 AM

Kane isn't a 30 goal scorer because we can predict he will miss 10-15games in any given year. He is a volume scorer. That means he has to shoot 300times a year to score 30goals roughly. His speed is great and he is physical. I don't think he is great with Eichel but maybe I am wrong. My issue boils down to this, is Evander Kane worth 7mil X6 years and I can't get to that threshold. I put him at 6mil X4 years. 



#208 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:06 AM

Kane isn't a 30 goal scorer because we can predict he will miss 10-15games in any given year. He is a volume scorer. That means he has to shoot 300times a year to score 30goals roughly. His speed is great and he is physical. I don't think he is great with Eichel but maybe I am wrong. My issue boils down to this, is Evander Kane worth 7mil X6 years and I can't get to that threshold. I put him at 6mil X4 years. 

Exactly. I will take the latter. But I do not want to be stuck with a $7M cap hit until Kane is 33 with how inconsistent he is



#209 ericcomposer72

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:07 AM

Evander Kane worth 7mil X6 years and I can't get to that threshold. I put him at 6mil X4 years. 

 

I think he's worth as much as Okposo, although I know they're very different players. The 6mil Okposo got turns into 6.5 or 7 with inflation



#210 ShadowLiger

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:17 AM

I think he is worth less than Okposo. 


To be clear on Okposo, I think the contract he signed was about 2 years to long. 



#211 Randall Flagg

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:49 AM

Kane scored a lot with Eichel but again look at their defensive numbers together

They're not conducive to winning hockey games.



#212 ericcomposer72

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:56 AM

Kane scored a lot with Eichel but again look at their defensive numbers together

They're not conducive to winning hockey games.

 

I agree, neither are strong defensively. I think Wowie can find a better, more balanced line for Kane. I only mentioned it to show that he's capable of chemistry (many people here don't think he is)


Edited by ericcomposer72, 18 September 2017 - 11:56 AM.


#213 DirtDart

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:20 PM

Anyone who thinks Kane should be extended is clearly a moron and shouldn't be allowed to ever post on here

Count me in the extend Kane group. Maybe I will get banned? Is this the TBD board?



#214 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:21 PM

Count me in the extend Kane group. Maybe I will get banned? Is this the TBD board?

Forgot about that post. Out of context, not my best post



#215 DirtDart

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:23 PM

Kane isn't a 30 goal scorer because we can predict he will miss 10-15games in any given year. He is a volume scorer. That means he has to shoot 300times a year to score 30goals roughly. His speed is great and he is physical. I don't think he is great with Eichel but maybe I am wrong. My issue boils down to this, is Evander Kane worth 7mil X6 years and I can't get to that threshold. I put him at 6mil X4 years. 

I agree with those numbers on a 4 year contract. Last thing we want is to get sucked in to a long term contract that will take him into his declining years. Then we end up paying him for 10 years on a buyout like Ehrhoff, or Coney Hotdog.


Forgot about that post. Out of context, not my best post

I figured as much. Was just giving you a hard time. We all have them.



#216 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:27 PM

I agree with those numbers on a 4 year contract. Last thing we want is to get sucked in to a long term contract that will take him into his declining years. Then we end up paying him for 10 years on a buyout like Ehrhoff, or Coney Hotdog.


I figured as much. Was just giving you a hard time. We all have them.

Figured as much, just didn't want someone else to see that and cause a sht storm :lol:



#217 nfreeman

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

One interesting question IMHO is whether any NHL GM would give Kane a 7-year deal. 

 

We can go back and forth on whether the "antics" meme is fair or not, but it's indisputable that Kane is perceived by many to come with baggage. 

 

Will an NHL GM be willing to risk giving him, say, $6MM x 7 years, knowing that if he does, and then Kane skips practice/gets arrested/clashes with teammates, and then the team misses the playoffs -- that is a big honking black mark against that GM? 

 

If another team won't give Kane a long-term deal, does it make it more likely that he re-signs here?  Or, if Kane gets to the point where he learns that other teams won't give him that kind of contract, will it be too late for him to return to the Sabres anyway?



#218 sweetlou

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:00 PM

Let him play LW with Reinhart on third line, and his normal shifts on PK and PP. Then no matter what type of year he is having, trade him at the deadline for some more young assets.



#219 BRAWNDO

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:01 PM

I think Kane will be number one sought after rental at the trade deadline this season and he gets traded for the right offer.

#220 7+6=13

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:07 PM

One interesting question IMHO is whether any NHL GM would give Kane a 7-year deal. 

 

We can go back and forth on whether the "antics" meme is fair or not, but it's indisputable that Kane is perceived by many to come with baggage. 

 

Will an NHL GM be willing to risk giving him, say, $6MM x 7 years, knowing that if he does, and then Kane skips practice/gets arrested/clashes with teammates, and then the team misses the playoffs -- that is a big honking black mark against that GM? 

 

If another team won't give Kane a long-term deal, does it make it more likely that he re-signs here?  Or, if Kane gets to the point where he learns that other teams won't give him that kind of contract, will it be too late for him to return to the Sabres anyway?

 

I don't think he would get $7m in the open market unless it's a team completely desperate for scoring.  If such a team could be identified he has to know he's going to a very bad team and that might just bring him back.  I don't think a healthy organization gives him that kind of money.



#221 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:08 PM

I don't think he would get $7m in the open market unless it's a team completely desperate for scoring.  If such a team could be identified he has to know he's going to a very bad team and that might just bring him back.  I don't think a healthy organization gives him that kind of money.

I think if he plays anything like he did last season, he easily gets $7M



#222 That Aud Smell

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:15 PM

One interesting question IMHO is whether any NHL GM would give Kane a 7-year deal. 

 

We can go back and forth on whether the "antics" meme is fair or not, but it's indisputable that Kane is perceived by many to come with baggage. 

 

Will an NHL GM be willing to risk giving him, say, $6MM x 7 years, knowing that if he does, and then Kane skips practice/gets arrested/clashes with teammates, and then the team misses the playoffs -- that is a big honking black mark against that GM? 

 

If another team won't give Kane a long-term deal, does it make it more likely that he re-signs here?  Or, if Kane gets to the point where he learns that other teams won't give him that kind of contract, will it be too late for him to return to the Sabres anyway?

 

hey, hey, whoa - hold up there a minute.

 

:bag:



#223 korab rules

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:33 PM

See korab (loved that guy by the way) I don't think we are "ready to contend now" and without more changes we are only marginally better than last year.

 

Duchene I would trade for, and yes I know all his potential pitfalls and that argument can be found in the Duchene thread but I think he'd be a better fit than Reinhart. It wouldn't be a 1 for 1 but Avs want a young potential in the deal make that trade around Sam.

 

I don't know who we get for Kane, don't know who would want him. I would have maybe said Flyers but Hextall's been pretty shrewd now and seems to be looking to his kids so maybe a guy like Kane is no longer on their radar. Still, if they've given up on Goethstisbeher (or whatever you spell it as) I'd look at him as a potential guy Housley could develop into a superstar. No idea who is available though, I don't really follow the rosters of other teams much.

 

Who wants Kane that'd be the first question? 

If you want to trade for duchene with Reinhart as the center piece you are going to have to add a first and Guhle.  You are giving up a cost controlled reinhart who is at worse 5/6 of duchene, for a player about with two years left at a much higher price than reinhart.

 

The flyers just signed Gostisbehere to a 6 year 27 million contract.  I doubt they are looking to move him, but anything is possible.  

 

Who knows what Kane's value is on the trade market. If you think you are going to get back a 28 goal scorer for either Kane or Reinhart, well, you really ought to study past trades across the league.  It will require gutting our prospects taking back a major albatross of a contract, or both.  



#224 korab rules

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:43 PM

I think if he plays anything like he did last season, he easily gets $7M

I agree with this.  Very few players in the league who score 25+ goals a year are as hard to play against as Kane.  He is the kind of guy you want in a playoff series.  His speed and aggression will give the other team's D fits.  When the Sabres make the playoffs, I want a player like him on the team.  I would do 6x6 years.  Assuming he is playing well and no problems, sign him to that contract before the trade deadline.  If not, move him.  Cant let a player like him walk for nothing



#225 North Buffalo

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:15 PM

I agree with this.  Very few players in the league who score 25+ goals a year are as hard to play against as Kane.  He is the kind of guy you want in a playoff series.  His speed and aggression will give the other team's D fits.  When the Sabres make the playoffs, I want a player like him on the team.  I would do 6x6 years.  Assuming he is playing well and no problems, sign him to that contract before the trade deadline.  If not, move him.  Cant let a player like him walk for nothing

I am of this mind too... though still concerned and would rather go with 4 for 7 if that is even an option. Kane has too many ifs to be sure and makes him a gamble either lowering his worth or term. But I'd rather keep him for his playoff as you said agression... ideal for it. Guess we will see as this season plays out and how he buys into the new system.

#226 Thorny

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:22 PM

I agree with this.  Very few players in the league who score 25+ goals a year are as hard to play against as Kane.  He is the kind of guy you want in a playoff series.  His speed and aggression will give the other team's D fits.  When the Sabres make the playoffs, I want a player like him on the team.  I would do 6x6 years.  Assuming he is playing well and no problems, sign him to that contract before the trade deadline.  If not, move him.  Cant let a player like him walk for nothing


Perfection.

#227 7+6=13

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:57 PM

I think if he plays anything like he did last season, he easily gets $7M

 

You could be right but I just don't see a player that has had more goals than assists 5 of his 8 years easily getting 7 mil - and needing that many shots to get the goals. 

 

I like Kane and I'd prefer to sign him but he's not worth 7 mil to me.  He's got some intangibles and I like them but those lack of assists jump off the page to me.

 

I just don't think I can pay that for 20 and 15 then 28 and 15 or I'd have to be 100% sure it's a line mate issue.


Edited by 7+6=13, 18 September 2017 - 08:22 PM.


#228 korab rules

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:06 PM

You could be right but I just don't see a player that has had more goals than assists 5 of his 8 years easily getting 7 mil - and needing that many shots to get the goals.


NHL GM's get really stupid on July 1.

#229 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:09 PM

You could be right but I just don't see a player that has had more goals than assists 5 of his 8 years easily getting 7 mil - and needing that many shots to get the goals. 

I mean Ladd got $5.5 :lol:



#230 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:09 PM

I think if he plays anything like he did last season, he easily gets $7M

 

He's not as good a player — as productive or as safe an investment — as Okposo or Lucic.

They each got $6 million per over seven years. Even allowing for inflation, who is going to invest nearly $50 milion in Kane?

Make him one of the top five highest-paid  LWs in hockey?



#231 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:14 PM

He's not as good a player — as productive or as safe an investment — as Okposo or Lucic.

They each got $6 million per over seven years. Even allowing for inflation, who is going to invest nearly $50 milion in Kane?

Make him one of the top five highest-paid  LWs in hockey?

He scores. People fall in love with goals. He hits 30 goals this year and he's going to get paid



#232 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:17 PM

He scores. People fall in love with goals. He hits 30 goals this year and he's going to get paid

 

He'll get paid. Probably have a lot of teams interested at Okposo numbers.

But that was a serious question: what team is going to pay Kane $50 million in a cap world to be their best winger? That's best winger money.

You won't see many teams paying their number two winger that much, especially if they've already got strong centres and D to pay.


Edited by dudacek, 18 September 2017 - 08:20 PM.


#233 ShadowLiger

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:25 PM

I'm. Not paying that for 7 years. Hell no

#234 Taro T

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:25 PM

NHL GM's get really stupid on July 1.


Yes, they do.

Barring this year's injury being worse than his typical 20-gamish one, wouldn't be surprised to see him get $7 for 6 or 7 years.

#235 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:30 PM

He'll get paid. Probably have a lot of teams interested at Okposo numbers.

But that was a serious question: what team is going to pay Kane $50 million in a cap world to be their best winger? That's best winger money.

You won't see many teams paying their number two winger that much, especially if they've already got strong centres and D to pay.

So right now we have

 

Ovechkin : 9.5

 

Benn: 9.5

 

Nash: 7.5

 

Sedin: 7

 

and for RW

 

Kane: 10.5

 

Pery: 8.6

 

Voracek: 8.2

 

Tarasenko: 7.5

 

Ryan: 7.25

 

 

So indeed it looks like you are right. Appears 6-7 is a much more reasonable prediction for him



#236 ShadowLiger

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:40 PM

You don't overpay wingers unless they are great. Bobby Ryan is a perfect example of why not.

#237 7+6=13

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:06 PM

He scores. People fall in love with goals. He hits 30 goals this year and he's going to get paid

 

If we offered him 6M, I think he'd sign right now.  I don't think we're going even that high.  I think Kane could be in a real corner where the only big money he gets offered is by really bad or aging teams and he'll be faced with having to suck throughout his 20's.

 

If he scores 30 with 15 assists I don't think he's getting paid what you think.



#238 WildCard

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:08 PM

If we offered him 6M, I think he'd sign right now.  I don't think we're going even that high.  I think Kane could be in a real corner where the only big money he gets offered is by really bad or aging teams and he'll be faced with having to suck throughout his 20's.

 

If he scores 30 with 15 assists I don't think he's getting paid what you think.

I don't think he is either, hence my listing of wingers making $7M+ and my conclusion at the end



#239 7+6=13

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:17 PM

I don't think he is either, hence my listing of wingers making $7M+ and my conclusion at the end

 

My fault, I see where you changed your thought on easily getting $7M after your list post.


Edited by 7+6=13, 18 September 2017 - 09:18 PM.


#240 nfreeman

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:53 PM

If we offered him 6M, I think he'd sign right now. I don't think we're going even that high. I think Kane could be in a real corner where the only big money he gets offered is by really bad or aging teams and he'll be faced with having to suck throughout his 20's.

If he scores 30 with 15 assists I don't think he's getting paid what you think.


I don't think you can predict what he would do with a $6MM per year offer unless we also know the term.

I think unless the Sabres offer at least 6 years, his answer is going to be no.