Jump to content


Photo

Post your defenceman trade proposals here


  • Please log in to reply
252 replies to this topic

#201 Thorny

Thorny

    Supreme Mugwump

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo, some day

Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:43 AM

Damn, I just spent some time reading the trade boards on HF and my head hurts.
There are a ridiculous amount of people convinced the price for a good but not great veteran defenceman - think Brodin and Tanev - is the third overall pick.
When has this ever happened?
Has the market really shifted that much?

  

No it is preposterous. I hope Botterill doesn't buy into the hype. I would almost guarantee that a decent scouting team could draft a better defender at #3 then Tanev.  I think the NHL is in the process of shifting again and that is why defenders are such premiums. In 2 years as more mobile defenders permeate the league more and more the prices will drop.


Let's just hope we are at or nearing the "mobile D-man arms race" peak, and that their value, seemingly at an all time high, dips down a bit soon as Liger suggests. I fear we could be waiting till such time to truly upgrade our defence.

#202 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:49 AM

Damn, I just spent some time reading the trade boards on HF and my head hurts.
There are a ridiculous amount of people convinced the price for a good but not great veteran defenceman - think Brodin and Tanev - is the third overall pick.

When has this ever happened?
Has the market really shifted that much?

You can always find a good post in any trade thread on hfboards that teaches you something about a player you didn't know, you just have to wade through the other 90 bad ones to get it. 


And we need to keep our centers and forwards, this stuff always goes in cycles, let's be the guys ahead of a curve for once. It'll bounce back and then we strike 

 

Or we can finish our LA model that Tim started 3 years ago 



#203 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

I think that bounce back will happen sooner rather than later. The Pens didn't win the cup with defense is all I am saying. 



#204 Thorny

Thorny

    Supreme Mugwump

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo, some day

Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:55 AM

You can always find a good post in any trade thread on hfboards that teaches you something about a player you didn't know, you just have to wade through the other 90 bad ones to get it. And we need to keep our centers and forwards, this stuff always goes in cycles, let's be the guys ahead of a curve for once. It'll bounce back and then we strike 
 
Or we can finish our LA model that Tim started 3 years ago


I'm good w/the bolded in general, provided there's still some way Botterill can find to upgrade the defence for next season. It's time to legitimately compete for the playoffs and our current back-end won't get it done.

#205 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:58 AM

I'm good w/the bolded in general, provided there's still some way Botterill can find to upgrade the defence for next season. It's time to legitimately compete for the playoffs and our current back-end won't get it done.

I'm in favor of the "small changes for now" approach - like, sign Russell, trade for De Haan, don't play Gorges, and see what we look like with Housley coaching them. 

I wanted the big move last year, Fowler in particular, I avoid that type of move this offseason. We'll see what it looks like next summer. 



#206 Thorny

Thorny

    Supreme Mugwump

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo, some day

Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:00 PM

I suppose we can attempt it with a McCabe - Ristolainen, Antipin - Bogosian top 4, but to my mind it's a risky proposition to count on both a relative unknown in Antipin and an oft-injured Bogo resurgence to cement our top 4, particularly when some of the load needs to be removed from Risto's shoulders.

I'm in favor of the "small changes for now" approach - like, sign Russell, trade for De Haan, don't play Gorges, and see what we look like with Housley coaching them. 
I wanted the big move last year, Fowler in particular, I avoid that type of move this offseason. We'll see what it looks like next summer.


I wouldn't really consider trading for de Haan a small move. I'm hesitant to think we'll even be able to pull off a trade like that.

#207 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:01 PM

What if we trade Kane for DeHaan and a pick? idk what the value is there but if NYI want a top 6 forward.......



#208 Saratoga

Saratoga

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Adirondacks

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:19 PM

What if we trade Kane for DeHaan and a pick? idk what the value is there but if NYI want a top 6 forward.......

 

Given that it's Garth Snow I bet JB could get him to cough up #15 and DeHaan.



#209 inkman

inkman

    Fledgling Member of TSC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairport

Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:43 PM

I hear Vegas could have an additional 3 first round picks.


If they do this right, in 5 years they could be a force to reckon with

#210 We've

We've

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,006 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:46 PM

If they do this right, in 5 years they could be a force to reckon with

 

#ThingsDarcysays



#211 Sabres79

Sabres79

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,997 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:52 PM

If they do this right, in 5 years they could be a force to reckon with


They could build something interesting relatively quickly, heck, the Sabres have a shot of making the playoffs five years after, well, we all remember.

I have read otherwise sane (I assume) people suggesting there's a possibility they'll be anything other than hot garbage this coming season though. Even George McPhee giggles at that.

#212 Robviously

Robviously

    What You Don't See

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,547 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:55 PM

If they do this right, in 5 years they could be a force to reckon with

If they do this right, they'll get some of those picks for drafts other than this one.



#213 inkman

inkman

    Fledgling Member of TSC

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fairport

Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:45 PM

If they do this right, they'll get some of those picks for drafts other than this one.


:thumb:

#214 GASabresFan

GASabresFan

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 874 posts

Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:01 PM

Ok, we are inching closer to the expansion, the draft and free agency.  So where do we stand on D?

 

At the end of last season our D looked something like this

McCabe Risto

Kulikov Bogo

Gorges Franson

Falk 

 

Now?

McCabe Risto

Beaulieu Bogo

Gorges Antipin

Falk

 

 

Obviously, Beaulieu and Antipin are cheaper replacements and younger.  Imho they are also better players (certainly better skaters) then the twosome they replace.  Baloo has some size and put up 28 pts last season, which is 4 more pts then Franson and Kulikov combined.  Antipin had 24 pts in 59 KHL games last season  (plus 11 pts (7goals) in 18 playoff games). If he could approach that number in 82 games in the NHL, we'd have to call that a huge win for the Sabres.  

 

The next question is jbot done remaking the group? is Gorges returning?  I think the answer is no to both questions.  Gorges is to slow to play the system Housley and Jbot want.  That means to me he'll be replaced.


Edited by GASabresFan, 18 June 2017 - 09:11 PM.


#215 Tondas

Tondas

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,849 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lincoln, NE

Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:09 PM

Ok, we are inching closer to the expansion, the draft and free agency.  So where do we stand on D?

 

At the end of last season our D looked something like this

McCabe Risto

Kulikov Bogo

Gorges Franson

Falk Fedun

 

Now?

McCabe Risto

Bealieau

 

McCabe   Risto

Beaulieu  Antipin

Falk         Bogo

Gorges



#216 pi2000

pi2000

    The Church of Mouls... er Matthews

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,633 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:51 PM

I still don't see Antipin as a top 6. He's a depth guy at best, most likely starts the season in Rochester. He's undersized and poor in his own end based on what I saw of him in the Worlds.

What exactly does he bring to the table that people are putting him in the top 4?

Edited by pi2000, 18 June 2017 - 09:51 PM.


#217 dudacek

dudacek

    ...browsing the internet

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Listening to offers — eyes and ears

Posted 18 June 2017 - 10:16 PM

I still don't see Antipin as a top 6. He's a depth guy at best, most likely starts the season in Rochester. He's undersized and poor in his own end based on what I saw of him in the Worlds.
What exactly does he bring to the table that people are putting him in the top 4?


Agree that people are overly optimistic in how he is being slotted.
However, he will not be in Rochester according to interview I read: its Buffalo or Russia.

My reading is the Sabres sold him on assurances they believe he is good enough to play in Buffalo and have him pencilled in as a bottom pairing guy.

We won't know until he gets here, but he seems to play the style we are looking for.

#218 Drunkard

Drunkard

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,299 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:08 AM

I think that bounce back will happen sooner rather than later. The Pens didn't win the cup with defense is all I am saying. 

 

They also have Crosby and Malkin. When you have 2 of the (probably) best 5 forwards on the planet it's easier to get away with a weaker defense. The rest of the NHL doesn't have that luxury.



#219 Drunkard

Drunkard

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,299 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:36 PM

Ryan O'Reilly for Justin Faulk of Carolina. We get a top pair defenseman, they get a top line center. Gives us the added benefit or practically forcing Reinhart into a center role for us and additional cap space since Faulk's cap hit is under $5 million. They'll like how much we front loaded O'Reilly's contract since they are a budget team even though for the next 2 years they'd still have to pay him more than his cap hit but they'd be able to recoup it on the back end of his deal.

 

This would stack our right side compared to our left but it would allow us to play Antipin on the left hand side and slide Bogosian down to the third pairing.

 

McCabe     Faulk

Beaulieu    Ristolainen

Antipin       Bogosian



#220 thewookie1

thewookie1

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,757 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:43 PM

No way Jose, O'Reilly is a core piece and untradable

#221 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 12:52 PM

Ryan O'Reilly for Justin Faulk of Carolina. We get a top pair defenseman, they get a top line center. Gives us the added benefit or practically forcing Reinhart into a center role for us and additional cap space since Faulk's cap hit is under $5 million. They'll like how much we front loaded O'Reilly's contract since they are a budget team even though for the next 2 years they'd still have to pay him more than his cap hit but they'd be able to recoup it on the back end of his deal.

 

This would stack our right side compared to our left but it would allow us to play Antipin on the left hand side and slide Bogosian down to the third pairing.

 

McCabe     Faulk

Beaulieu    Ristolainen

Antipin       Bogosian

Okay, if Carolina includes their 1st and 2nd round picks this year and Hadyn Fluery then sure. 

 

ROR for Faulk, Hadyn Fleury, #12, #42, #52, and #62


Edited by ShadowLiger, 22 June 2017 - 01:00 PM.


#222 Drunkard

Drunkard

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,299 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:00 PM

Okay, if Carolina includes their 1st and 2nd round picks this year and Hadyn Fluery then sure. 

 

That is approaching Roy for Malkin and a 1st type territory. You get more bang for the buck with Faulk at under $5 million than we do with O'Reilly for $7.5 million. Given their glut at defense and ours at center it seems like an even swap to me. O'Reilly does have 3 extra years on his deal though so I can see them adding something, but I highly doubt it would be all of the 3 things you listed.



#223 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:02 PM

That is approaching Roy for Malkin and a 1st type territory. You get more bang for the buck with Faulk at under $5 million than we do with O'Reilly for $7.5 million. Given their glut at defense and ours at center it seems like an even swap to me. O'Reilly does have 3 extra years on his deal though so I can see them adding something, but I highly doubt it would be all of the 3 things you listed.

Says who? 


We have reached insanity level with defenders at this stage. It is like a frenzy. 



#224 TrueBlueGED

TrueBlueGED

    #fancystats

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,071 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:03 PM

Wish we'd have been the team to get Schlemko for a 5th.

#225 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:08 PM

Wish we'd have been the team to get Schlemko for a 5th.

So Montreal traded Baloo and a 5th for Schlemko and a 3rd... Montreal is an odd place. 



#226 Drunkard

Drunkard

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,299 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:24 PM

Says who? 


We have reached insanity level with defenders at this stage. It is like a frenzy. 

 

Says math.

 

Faulk

$4,833,333 in cap hit for 37 points equals $130,630.60 per point

 

O'Reilly

$7,500,000 in cap hit for 55 points equals $136,363.60 per point

 

 

I get that there's a ton more to hockey than scoring points but the fact that Faulk produces more per dollar of cap hit despite being a defenseman while also anchoring Carolina's top pair and playing against the toughest competition the same way O'Reilly does here is kind of tips the scales in his favor.



#227 MattPie

MattPie

    J-Bot, U-Bot, and We-Bot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,351 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Strafing some corners

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:27 PM

Ryan O'Reilly for Justin Faulk of Carolina. We get a top pair defenseman, they get a top line center. Gives us the added benefit or practically forcing Reinhart into a center role for us and additional cap space since Faulk's cap hit is under $5 million. They'll like how much we front loaded O'Reilly's contract since they are a budget team even though for the next 2 years they'd still have to pay him more than his cap hit but they'd be able to recoup it on the back end of his deal.
 
This would stack our right side compared to our left but it would allow us to play Antipin on the left hand side and slide Bogosian down to the third pairing.
 
McCabe     Faulk
Beaulieu    Ristolainen
Antipin       Bogosian


Hey man, not cool. I saw this posted by Interstellar Space Sasquatch over on the Canes board. :)

#228 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:33 PM

I'd shoot for Slavin with ROR, not Faulk. 

Faulk's great in the o-zone and average in the d-zone, but he does a lot of annoying things in transition.



#229 TrueBlueGED

TrueBlueGED

    #fancystats

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,071 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:46 PM

I don't see how we come out ahead in any ROR trade. I'm one of Reinhart's biggest boosters, but he's nowhere near ready to handle the minutes O'Reilly eats. It's not just robbing Peter to pay Paul, but it's burning Peter's house down on top of it.

#230 Drunkard

Drunkard

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,299 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:47 PM

I'd shoot for Slavin with ROR, not Faulk. 

Faulk's great in the o-zone and average in the d-zone, but he does a lot of annoying things in transition.

 

I could get on board with this. Is Slavin generally Faulk's partner on the top pair? If so, that could definitely help to balance out our talent between the left and right side.


I don't see how we come out ahead in any ROR trade. I'm one of Reinhart's biggest boosters, but he's nowhere near ready to handle the minutes O'Reilly eats. It's not just robbing Peter to pay Paul, but it's burning Peter's house down on top of it.

 

Eichel would take O'Reilly's minutes and Reinhart would take Eichel's minutes on the second line.



#231 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:50 PM

What the actual ######

#232 TrueBlueGED

TrueBlueGED

    #fancystats

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,071 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

Eichel would take O'Reilly's minutes and Reinhart would take Eichel's minutes on the second line.


Have you seen Eichel's defense? In no world of the multiverse do I want him our primary checking option against the Crosbys of the world.

#233 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 22 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

I could get on board with this. Is Slavin generally Faulk's partner on the top pair? If so, that could definitely help to balance out our talent between the left and right side.


 

Eichel would take O'Reilly's minutes and Reinhart would take Eichel's minutes on the second line.

He's played 306 minutes with Faulk, over 1000 with Pesce, and trace amounts with the other RHD. 

 

Ultimately I wouldn't go for trading ROR and if I was dead set on one of those guys I'd try to make it work with Samson and something else. 



#234 ShadowLiger

ShadowLiger

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,216 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:00 PM

Have you seen Eichel's defense? In no world of the multiverse do I want him our primary checking option against the Crosbys of the world.

 

exactly 


I could get on board with this. Is Slavin generally Faulk's partner on the top pair? If so, that could definitely help to balance out our talent between the left and right side.


 

Eichel would take O'Reilly's minutes and Reinhart would take Eichel's minutes on the second line.

 

giphy.gif



#235 sabills

sabills

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,926 posts

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

I like that on this same board there are people who are really upset we lost Carrier and also people who want to trade ROR. Very diverse crowd.



#236 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:19 PM

I like that on this same board there are people who are really upset we lost Carrier and also people who want to trade ROR. Very diverse crowd.

You use the word "people", but I only see one person advocating for ROR to be traded.

 

In the summer, in a "post your defensemen trade proposals here" thread.


Edited by Randall Flagg, 22 June 2017 - 02:20 PM.


#237 Thorny

Thorny

    Supreme Mugwump

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo, some day

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:20 PM

ROR is a team Canada, Selke-level centre. I think we probably should.....NOT trade him.

#238 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:21 PM

Eichel + Ristolainen for Hedman + Johnson



#239 Thorny

Thorny

    Supreme Mugwump

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo, some day

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:21 PM

Use the word "people", I one person advocating for ROR to be traded.
 
In the summer, in a "post your defensemen trade proposals here" thread.


Adjusted post for what will actually be inferred.

#240 Randall Flagg

Randall Flagg

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY

Posted 22 June 2017 - 02:24 PM

Adjusted post for what will actually be inferred.

I don't get it