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2017-18 lineup prediction (the Original Lineup Thread)


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#41 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

Doohickie, you know we love ya, but this is like when Liger predicted that Robyn Regehr was going to become a force on the power play.


I was not aware of this particular prediction. Holy smokes Liger! :lol: :P

#42 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:26 PM

I was not aware of this particular prediction. Holy smokes Liger! :lol: :P

I don't remember it but I'll trust nfreeman on this one. 



#43 Crusader1969

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:41 PM

I'm one of those guys who isn't a fan of designating guys as #1 or #2 etc.

I think this team's game plan should be built around its three excellent centres and it's lineup designed around chemistry, balance and the ability to give one of those centres a significant mismatch.

It's also hope we will see our new coach give at least two and hopefully more of our young wingers a prime time gig at more than nine minutes a game.

 

 

Agreed 3 balanced lines that can score is what you want. ROR, Eichel and Reinhart are your 3 centres. Larrson or Girgs on the 4th line.



#44 GASabresFan

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:56 PM

Agreed 3 balanced lines that can score is what you want. ROR, Eichel and Reinhart are your 3 centres. Larrson or Girgs on the 4th line.

 

I agree on the first 3, but unless Larsson and Big Z can learn to win a draw, it's time to go out and get a guy who can win a defensive zone faceoff.  Brian Boyle and Jay Beagle head my list.



#45 EichSnipe

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:10 PM

Any thoughts about or interest in Michael Del Zotto? Maybe a second pairing guy if we could get him on a 2-3 year deal??

#46 Saratoga

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:31 PM

Any thoughts about or interest in Michael Del Zotto? Maybe a second pairing guy if we could get him on a 2-3 year deal??


Rangers got rid of him, and now the flyers probably want to as well. He was a frequent healthy scratch and a liability. He seems pretty inconsistent.

#47 Randall Flagg

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:08 PM

Since it was pointed out elsewhere, I'd like to see ROR get 5v5 ice time with Jack this coming season, to make up for the fact that the previous two years he got more 5v5 time with Deslauriers than with Jack. 



#48 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:22 PM

Since it was pointed out elsewhere, I'd like to see ROR get 5v5 ice time with Jack this coming season, to make up for the fact that the previous two years he got more 5v5 time with Deslauriers than with Jack.


Would do wonders for Jack in the defensive zone, that's for sure.

#49 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:45 PM

I agree on the first 3, but unless Larsson and Big Z can learn to win a draw, it's time to go out and get a guy who can win a defensive zone faceoff.  Brian Boyle and Jay Beagle head my list.

Larsson was at 49% and won 223 and lost 233 draws. Not like he is terrible or something and not a good reason to go get Jay Beagle. 



#50 DarthEbriate

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:53 PM

I need an experienced 4th line, a dynamite top line with almost godlike powers, a 2nd line that is always a threat whenever they get in the offensive zone...    A top D-pairing with range and aggression and cockiness. A 2nd D that will always keep me entertained and has two very complimentary players. And a goalie who knows a thing or two about being shot at and not giving up rebounds.

 

Princess Leia – Darth Vader – Ben Kenobi

Biggs Darklighter – Luke Skywalker – Wedge Antilles

Jek Porkins – Garven Dreis – Dutch Vander

Owen Lars – Grand Moff Tarkin – Aunt Beru Lars

 

Han Solo – Chewbacca

R2-D2 – C-3PO

Dr. Evazan – Ponda Baba

 

Greedo

Lt. Pol Treidum

 

Yup. That'll do.



#51 Let's Go B-Lo

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:31 PM

I need an experienced 4th line, a dynamite top line with almost godlike powers, a 2nd line that is always a threat whenever they get in the offensive zone...    A top D-pairing with range and aggression and cockiness. A 2nd D that will always keep me entertained and has two very complimentary players. And a goalie who knows a thing or two about being shot at and not giving up rebounds.

 

Princess Leia – Darth Vader – Ben Kenobi

Biggs Darklighter – Luke Skywalker – Wedge Antilles

Jek Porkins – Garven Dreis – Dutch Vander

Owen Lars – Grand Moff Tarkin – Aunt Beru Lars

 

Han Solo – Chewbacca

R2-D2 – C-3PO

Dr. Evazan – Ponda Baba

 

Greedo

Lt. Pol Treidum

 

Yup. That'll do.

Owen and Beru Lars get burned at home far too frequently for my liking and C3P0 makes Cody Franson look speedy.



#52 GASabresFan

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:55 PM

Larsson was at 49% and won 223 and lost 233 draws. Not like he is terrible or something and not a good reason to go get Jay Beagle. 

No but he isn't good enough to take important defensive zone faceoffs 5on5 or on the pk so that we don't have to over play ROR.



#53 dudacek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:56 PM

Owen and Beru Lars get burned at home far too frequently for my liking and C3P0 makes Cody Franson look speedy.

But Tarkin is sneaky dirty and loaded with veteran savvy (not to mention great at face offs)
He can carry that line.

Edited by dudacek, 25 April 2017 - 09:57 PM.


#54 Let's Go B-Lo

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:06 PM

But Tarkin is sneaky dirty and loaded with veteran savvy (not to mention great at face offs)
He can carry that line.

I think it's fairly well documented that he doesn't make anyone around him better, classic underachiever in the clutch.



#55 dudacek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:08 PM

I think it's fairly well documented that he doesn't make anyone around him better, classic underachiever in the clutch.

 

No way. He built the franchise into a powerhouse and took it to the show.

It was Vader who couldn't shoot straight with the game on the line.



#56 Let's Go B-Lo

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:17 PM

No way. He built the franchise into a powerhouse and took it to the show.

It was Vader who couldn't shoot straight with the game on the line.

Easy to blame the goaltender for having a weak 5 hole but Tarkin was clearly overconfident and took the 8 seed lightly.



#57 Thorny

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:22 AM

I need an experienced 4th line, a dynamite top line with almost godlike powers, a 2nd line that is always a threat whenever they get in the offensive zone...    A top D-pairing with range and aggression and cockiness. A 2nd D that will always keep me entertained and has two very complimentary players. And a goalie who knows a thing or two about being shot at and not giving up rebounds.
 
Princess Leia – Darth Vader – Ben Kenobi
Biggs Darklighter – Luke Skywalker – Wedge Antilles
Jek Porkins – Garven Dreis – Dutch Vander
Owen Lars – Grand Moff Tarkin – Aunt Beru Lars
 
Han Solo – Chewbacca
R2-D2 – C-3PO
Dr. Evazan – Ponda Baba
 
Greedo
Lt. Pol Treidum
 
Yup. That'll do.

  

Owen and Beru Lars get burned at home far too frequently for my liking and C3P0 makes Cody Franson look speedy.

  

But Tarkin is sneaky dirty and loaded with veteran savvy (not to mention great at face offs)
He can carry that line.


Outstanding.

#58 DarthEbriate

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:09 AM

Owen and Beru Lars get burned at home far too frequently for my liking and C3P0 makes Cody Franson look speedy.

I originally had them as a D pairing and scratched that idea for exactly this reason.

 

So now I just like the idea of after a whistle... Walrusman pushes Marchand at the side of the net. The doctor translates, "He doesn't like you."

 

Alas, back to reality. In my world we protect Larsson.

O'Reilly - Eichel - Okposo

Kane - Reinhart - 1 of Carrier/Bailey/Baptiste/Nylander/TBD UFA

Foligno - Larsson - Fasching

 

Defense... still too soon to say on the rest. Depends on what GM/coach style we get.

McCabe - Risto



#59 GASabresFan

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 09:36 AM

What are the honest problems with this team besides vets not pulling their contract weight?

1) Lack of secondary scoring 5 on 5.

2) Defense doesn't support the offense adequately.

3) Defense poor at clearing the zone

4) Centers, outside ROR are mediocre or worse in the faceoff circle

5) Terrible PK

6) Most forwards don't back check well.

7) Need to reduce minutes of ROR and Risto

 

Much of these issues stem from a lack of speed on defense and in some cases upfront, but others come from work ethic and effort such as faceoffs, back checking and PK.  Others certainly can be helped by good coaching and scheme including offensive support of D, the PK, which others, such as the lack of scoring and speed are roster issues.  Roster changes might also rid the team of the guys without the right work ethic and/or who don't put forth the right effort.

 

If I'm the next GM of the Sabres, these are the questions I'm trying to answer with my moves this off-season.  I also think he needs to go young ad get rid of as many big $ contracts as possible.  My one exception to this is at 4th line center.  I want our top 3 centers to be ROR, Jack and Sam, but we need a PK captain and a guy to take D zone faceoffs.  Liger thinks Larsson can do the job.  Maybe, but he was never finished over 50% in his NHL career.  This is a learned skill, just ask Gaustad and Crosby, so if Larsson works and proves he can do it fine, but if this team gets into contention and Larsson can't consistently win those draws, the GM better find someone who can. 

 

 

On defense Guhle and it looks like Antipin as well are coming to add speed and offense and clearing support on the blueline.  Adding Bailey and Carrier add speed, physical games and decent hands that might enhance the secondary scoring.  After reading this thread I'm somewhat convinced to give Carrier a bigger role,  I said he is Foligno's replacement, so why not next season?  I'm also trying a Lindy Ruff line construction of a sniper, playmaker and mucker on each line.  For example Carrier (mucker), ROR (playmaker) and Baptiste (sniper). 

 

I do not want to rush Nylander.  He may be ready by mid season next year, but lets do what Toronto did with his brother and let him come up when fully ready to contribute in a top 6 role. I see him as Ennis's repalcement  I'm also leaving Fasching in Rochester until I know he is healthy.  He can step in for Z or Bailey if they strike out.

 

Ultimately, this off-season may be more about getting rid of vets and fixing the Amerks then bringing stars to Buffalo as we move the kids up from the Amerks to the Sabres.  Still we need a RD a give Risto a break.  

 

 

Ennis Eichel Okposo

Carrier ROR Baptiste

Kane Reinhart Bailey

Foligno Larsson Girgensons

 

Antipin Risto

McCabe (Vatanen)

Guhle Bogo

Falk Nelson(?)



#60 CGorman

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 09:43 AM

I really hope we make a run for Oshie. He's the only FA I think we should aggressively go after. He'd be great with Jack or ROR and would help our abysmal shootout attempts (assuming the league doesn't scrap the SO). Won't come cheap but won't break the bank either. Trade Kane for D and have your forwards look something like this:

Oshie-Eichel-Erod
Okposo-ROR-Ennis
Carrier-Samson-Nylander
Girgs-Larsson-Foligno

#61 Doohickie

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 09:56 AM

Not sure why everyone wants to trade our top goal scorer.


But with your lines I think we have 1a, 1b, 1c, and Line 4.  I could see each of those top 3 doing significant scoring.



#62 CGorman

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:24 AM

Because our top goal scorer is not going to be a part of the team after next year and his value won't get any higher than it is now. If we were in the Caps position, keep him and go for a cup. We aren't going for a cup next year but hopefully will in 3-5. We have some big contracts that are going out to offensive players in the next few years, Kane won't (shouldn't) be getting one. Get a defender that you will give a contract to.

#63 dudacek

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:06 PM

What are the honest problems with this team besides vets not pulling their contract weight?
1) Lack of secondary scoring 5 on 5.
2) Defense doesn't support the offense adequately.
3) Defense poor at clearing the zone
4) Centers, outside ROR are mediocre or worse in the faceoff circle
5) Terrible PK
6) Most forwards don't back check well.
7) Need to reduce minutes of ROR and Risto
 


Good list. I will say the new GM should take into account the coaching strategies of the first quarter of the season and the terrible morale of the last quarter.

1) part of this can be addressed through coaching: activate the D, preach a tight five-man transition to increase scoring on the rush, move Sam to centre, encourage the attack mentality through three lines, utilize the big, fast wingers collected by XGMTM

2) Has to be addressed through new players: Guhle and Antipin play this style, that might help, but one proven puck-mover should be a target. Also, let Bogosian play high-event hockey. He has shown some ability to carry the puck and join the attack. It will add a few pluses to a game that is currently all minuses. I still have faint hope a new coach can salvage his career.

3) Again, it's about coaching more puck support, and getting better puck handling D. No more forcing our backline to make 75-foot passes.

4) I'm OK with this partly because ROR is so damned good and will continue he taking all the big draws, partly because I am sure the younger guys will improve. I'm willing to be patient with Larsson in this role. If he's traded, then a Legwand type makes sense until Asplund and or Pu (or maybe even Malone) is ready.

5) This is an interesting one. I never got a firm handle why it was so bad for most of the year, or why it got so good (and it was very good) over the last two months. A healthy Gorges maybe. ;-)

6) Less Ennis and Moulson, more Sam and Larry at centre, and a better Eichel is the key here. There's room for improvement, but I don't think it's our biggest issue.

7) Hell yes. Ryan needs to cede a routine minute to Sam, a offensive minute to Jack and a defensive minute to Larry.
Risto is harder. I'd like to see fewer defensive zone starts for him, which is why a Tanev or a Brodin might make more sense than a Vatanen.

#64 Sabre fan

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:17 PM

Rangers got rid of him, and now the flyers probably want to as well. He was a frequent healthy scratch and a liability. He seems pretty inconsiste.

too bad cause he seemed to have the talent and is still young...just afraid he be yet another big bust on our defence and we need sure things, not guys who may or may not be good. Antipin certainly sounds like a step in the right direction...also agree we need another center who can actually win a draw once in a while



#65 TheCerebral1

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:27 PM

As far as I'm concerned, seeing Ennis on any line next year is depressing.  He's a terrible fit in our top 6.  I'd pass him off for next to nothing and it's hard to hope for he or Bogosian more.  (Depending on who has less term in years left.)

 

Kane-O'Reilly-Okposo

Nylander-Eichel-Reinhart

Foligno-Larsson-Bailey

Carrier-Girgensons/Replacement-Gionta

Moulson

 

________-Ristolainen

McCabe-Bogosian

Guhle-_______

Antipin (Not sure where he fits) and Gorges



#66 Doohickie

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:00 PM

Antipin (Not sure where he fits) and Gorges

 

I think Antipin starts next season in the A and after they figure out what they've got and he's adjusted to the North American game, he's probably the first injury callup.



#67 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:04 PM

The way I see next year if I was a new coach coming in would be to identify the centers that will be anchoring their lines and build a line around complementary players to their style. Ditch this silly "pairs" model that Bylsma tried to implement, and provide attack-minded definition around the center's playing style.

 

The clear centers to me are:

A) Eichel

B) O'Reilly

C) Reinhart

D) Larsson

 

After that you think of the remaining forwards/complimentary players you have and assign them to the centers to compliment their strengths and fill in their weaknesses. I don't care too much about Line #1 vs Line #3 comparisons, as I am looking at a top 9 playing an attacking role w/ similar style, and the bottom 3 playing responsible defensively. The reamining forwards as of right now are:

 

Veterans: Okposo, Kane, Girgensons, Foligno

Up & Coming Youth: Nylander, Carrier, Bailey, Baptiste

Extras Not Making my LT Plans: Ennis, Moulson, Deslauriers

 

Given the above 8 forwards, I would assign them as such:

A) Eichel -- Nylander and Baptiste; Pure scoring line with speed, and gives Eichel a finisher in Nylander and speed to keep up with Baptiste (unless Bailey is the faster one, they get mixed up in my mind). I realize this line is very young, but can grow together. Potential for a FA addition here, someone like Oshie?

B) O'Reilly -- Okposo and Carrier; this line will get some tougher assignments and as such has a defensive lean, while still having a scorer (Okposo) and a strong forechecker (Carrier)

C) Reinhart -- Kane and Bailey; Kane provides a forecheck and puck carrying presence for Reinhart, and Bailey can grow into a role here.

D) Larsson -- Girgensons and Foligno; I think Girgs and Foligno are known quantities at this point, and fit well complimenting Larsson.

 

Obviously hoping for some additions to fill in the top 9 wings, as this version is very prospect heavy.

 

On defense, just adding Guhle and Antipin, reviving old Bogo with new coaching/scheme and removing UFA Kulikov changes things around. I think we need a 3rd pairing guy to pair with Guhle, but that's found in FA.

 

McCabe-Ristolainen

Antipin-Bogosian

Guhle-_______

Gorges

 

Get to it new GM.



#68 yse325

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:07 PM

What has Nylander shown to prove he is NHL ready? Why rush him? Let him develop properly.

#69 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:09 PM

What has Nylander shown to prove he is NHL ready? Why rush him? Let him develop properly.

Nothing. I just don't want to watch Ennis or Moulson taking up a spot next year. There's only so many options if that is my goal.



#70 Doohickie

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:09 PM

What has Nylander shown to prove he is NHL ready? Why rush him? Let him develop properly.

 

I agree, but I'd also put a fair amount of weight on how he does in training camp.  If it's obvious he belongs, let him play with the big club.



#71 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:11 PM

I agree, but I'd also put a fair amount of weight on how he does in training camp.  If it's obvious he belongs, let him play with the big club.

Also I think you can organically change the culture by bringing in multiple young players all at once. Let them grow and learn together and bring some new energy to the locker room.



#72 Doohickie

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:13 PM

There's also that dynamic of Nylander being the younger brother of an NHL player; I think that accelerates a player's development if they played together when they were younger.  ROR attributed a lot of his game to playing with Cal when he was a kid.  And young Samson has two older NHL brothers.



#73 Doohickie

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:13 PM

Also I think you can organically change the culture by bringing in multiple young players all at once. Let them grow and learn together and bring some new energy to the locker room.

 

That's one approach.  I think that very much depends on the GM, the coach, the system, and what expectations are for the coming season.



#74 dudacek

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:22 PM

I think Antipin starts next season in the A and after they figure out what they've got and he's adjusted to the North American game, he's probably the first injury callup.


I think Antipin agreed to sign on the good faith assurance they think he is ready to step in.
If not, he'd be signing with someone else.

#75 d4rksabre

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

I think Antipin agreed to sign on the good faith assurance they think he is ready to step in.
If not, he'd be signing with someone else.

Agreed. Antipin will be in the NHL. He's not leaving Russia to play in the A. 



#76 GASabresFan

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:25 PM

I think Antipin agreed to sign on the good faith assurance they think he is ready to step in.
If not, he'd be signing with someone else.


Agreed. No reason to make the move unless he is going to play in the NHL. Guhle is much more likely to start in the A.

#77 Sabre fan

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:27 PM

 also thought the Sabre brass (meaning EXGMTM) promised Casey Nelson lots of ice time with the big club too...I thought he looked pretty darn good and at least he's fast but he's buried in Rochester. Cannot see Antipin allowing them to bury him down there too...



#78 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:38 PM

also thought the Sabre brass (meaning EXGMTM) promised Casey Nelson lots of ice time with the big club too...I thought he looked pretty darn good and at least he's fast but he's buried in Rochester. Cannot see Antipin allowing them to bury him down there too...


The only thing Nelson was promised was immediate NHL time to burn a year on his ELC.

#79 Touched by Boyes

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:02 PM

The only thing Nelson was promised was immediate NHL time to burn a year on his ELC.

this is SOP on signing college FA's. Even the middling ones with Ruhweedl got the 10 game end of year in the NHL to burn a year on the contract. That's how you lure these guys.



#80 Sakman

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 03:14 PM

There's also that dynamic of Nylander being the younger brother of an NHL player; I think that accelerates a player's development if they played together when they were younger.  ROR attributed a lot of his game to playing with Cal when he was a kid.  And young Samson has two older NHL brothers.

Like Keith and Brent Gretzky?