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The Religion Thread (a new one)

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#1 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:17 PM

I don't start many threads on here but I figured I'd throw my hat in the ring and re-start an old topic to give us all something to argue over since politics and that guy who lost a bid to Terry Pegula to buy the Bills is out.

Keep political discussion out (or to an absolute bare minimum) and let's spark a new debate. So what do you believe? Do you swallow the story whole or just take the parts you like and ignore the rest (a guy can't really go to hell just for desiring his neighbor's wife or his jet ski, can he?).

I was raised Roman Catholic and have been an atheist for as long as I can remember (early teens) even though I was sometimes dragged to church and had to go through the motions (baptism, confession, communion, confirmation, sunday school, etc. but lucky enough we probably only attended regular mass 50% of the time on average). I probably had serious doubts even earlier though. Basically not long after hearing/learning that Santa, Leprechauns, the tooth fairy, and the Easter bunny were all bogus that it was a pretty good bet that talking snakes, unlimited fish and breadsticks, virgin births, and one man loading at least 2 of land dwelling every species on earth onto a boat while the earth gave itself a bath.

Despite all that I would love to be wrong because the idea of death just being it for all of us pretty much sucks so I can see why otherwise logical people would want to believe in stuff that basically defies logic.

So what do you believe? Is it the same faith that you were raised? If not why did you convert? A true change in beliefs or did you convert to be with a loved one? Do you ever regret the change? Do you sometimes wish that your spouse had coverted to your religion instead? If my memory serves me correctly NS converted from Christianity to Islam. I'd be curious to learn why.

Modo, are you true to your Viking roots and plan to one day see Odin, Thor, and Loki with all the Valkyrie babes in Vahalla, or are you a Lutheran/Christian like some many converted "heathens" over the centuries?

Any snake charmers? Buddhists, Wiccans, or Hindus? Jehovis Witnesses? Voodoo? Secular Humanists or Pastafarians. I know I've conversed with a Mormon guy on the board who was a pretty solid poster. Anyone believe in anything else interesting or funny?

Have at it, folks.


Edited by spndnchz, 27 December 2016 - 02:30 PM.


#2 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:19 PM

Unlike politics, I doubt anyone wants this here

#3 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:19 PM

Unlike politics, I doubt anyone wants this here


You're no fun. Baptist by any chance?

Edited by Drunkard, 20 December 2016 - 10:20 PM.


#4 d4rksabre

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:19 PM

We had a Theology thread before. It was cool. But I bet this gets closed.

#5 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:21 PM

We had a Theology thread before. It was cool. But I bet this gets closed.


It doesn't necessarily have to. As long as we abide by the rules of the board it should be ok.

#6 Doohickie

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:34 PM

You're no fun. Baptist by any chance?

 

:w00t:



#7 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:39 PM

:w00t:


I knew someone who lives in Texas would understand that joke, ha ha! Quick unrelated question. How many people do you know that go by the name Hoss (excluding the poster here). I'll guess 2.

Edited by Drunkard, 20 December 2016 - 10:40 PM.


#8 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:39 PM

You're no fun. Baptist by any chance?

I always thought he was Bailey

Edited by WildCard, 20 December 2016 - 10:40 PM.


#9 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:41 PM

I always thought he was Bailey


I don't get the reference.

#10 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:42 PM

I don't get the reference.

Prospects

#11 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:46 PM

Prospects


Gotcha. So what do you believe, man? God and heaven, nothing at all, or something in between? What's your voodoo?

#12 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:48 PM

:lol: The Sabres reference goes over heads in the religion thread on the sabres board

 

You're no fun. Baptist by any chance?

Nah I'm like you



#13 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:48 PM

Raised Catholic. My liberal politics come from that upbringing; care for the needy, etc. But even as a youngster I could see the BS of religion. I don't believe in a diety but I remain open to the idea there may be more to existence, scientifically, than we perceive.

Meanwhile the odds are sadly high civilization will end over religion.

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 20 December 2016 - 10:51 PM.


#14 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:49 PM

I don't like religion. I think faith is a curious thing though. I've read some Descartes, Libnez, and others on the creation of the universe and what not. Very interesting stuff

#15 SwampD

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:52 PM

There better be something more than this.

#16 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:53 PM

There better be something more than this.

Don't worry, we have the Bandits

#17 Tondas

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:53 PM

Raised Catholic. My liberal politics come from that upbringing; care for the needy, etc. But even as a youngster I could see the BS of religion. I don't believe in a diety but I remain open to the idea there may be more to existence, scientifically, than we perceive.

 

Well said PTR.  I always hated coming home from school getting ready to play street hockey, and my mother would tell me that it was a Holy Day of Obligation and we had to go to church.  Good name, Holy Day of Obligation and alway had a second collection plate.  Got to keep the money rolling in.



#18 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 10:53 PM

The Mormon poster was Chris in UT, right? Miss that guy.



#19 pastajoe

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:07 PM

This election has shaken my belief that someone is looking out for us.

#20 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:10 PM

:lol: The Sabres reference goes over heads in the religion thread on the sabres board

Nah I'm like you


Interesting. So how old were you when you lost your faith? Was there a single breaking point or did you slowly lose faith until one day you realized you didn't believe any of it anymore?

The Mormon poster was Chris in UT, right? Miss that guy.


I think so. Sounds correct anyway.

#21 Taro T

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:16 PM

This election has shaken my belief that someone is looking out for us.


Funny. It reinforced mine. :)

(Lesser of 2 evils sort of thing. :))

#22 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:16 PM

Interesting. So how old were you when you lost your faith? Was there a single breaking point or did you slowly lose faith until one day you realized you didn't believe any of it anymore?

I was 17, just about to turn 18. Early April, senior year of HS. Funnily enough, I was on Facebook, and saw this blatantly irreligious page, I can't remember what it was called. "Religion Poisons Everything", or something like that. It shocked me pretty bad because while I wasn't super strict, I very strongly believed in the God/heaven/hell that my Catholic church told me about. I clicked through a few posts, dismissed it, and thought I put it out of my mind. The page isn't even very good, it's mostly garbage/nonsense anti-religion arguments compressed into meme form. But I didn't know that having a negative view on religion was a thing until that point. I barely knew atheism existed. 

 

Like I said, I thought it was out of my mind, but I stayed awake at night thinking for a few weeks after that, and then one day I didn't finish the day with a prayer to keep my loved ones healthy like I had every single day for as long as I could remember. I realized the next morning that I didn't really believe in anything religious anymore. I got obnoxious about it, and then simmered down after a year or so of that. Almost got kicked out of my house. all that good stuff. Now I'm just quietly agnostic. Any "what are we, why are we here, what is the universe" discussion I have now is driven by a scientific (Physics-centered, because that is what my degree is) viewpoint and I generally just avoid talking about supernatural/spiritual things.

The only thing I preach hard against is the existence of ghosts and things of that nature. 



#23 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:17 PM

But current event threads get deleted.................................

 

Priceless......................



#24 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:21 PM

Love me some Leibniz

 

Leibniz’s argument is best thought of as beginning with a question which he poses at the end of the first paragraph of our reading for today:

 

Why is there any world at all, and why is it the way that it is?

 

Leibniz’s core thoughts are:

(1) that this question must have an answer

and

(2) that the only satisfactory answer to this question will imply the existence of God

 

 Leibniz thought that there must be some explanation of why there is a world at all because he endorsed a certain principle about explanation, known as the principle of sufficient reason. The basic idea behind the principle is this: Take any feature of the world. If the world could have failed to be that way, then there must be some explanation of why the world is that way. So, for example, we might notice that although the sky is blue,

 

ND lecture on Leibniz. I read his entire book and wrote a long paper on it in college, he was my favorite. 

 

https://www3.nd.edu/...S/5-leibniz.pdf


Btw, there is a massive difference between religion and faith, fwiw



#25 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:22 PM

I should probably mention that I am also an ordained minister with the Universal Life Church or something like that (my wallet is across the room and I don't feel like checking for the card) so if you ever find yourself in eastern NC and you want to get married to a goat or you want me to Baptize you with a squirt gun just let me know. Pretty sure the marriage wouldn't be legally binding even if it was 2 people but the Baptism should probably count in the eyes of God. At least to reach the cusp of heaven.

Edited by Drunkard, 20 December 2016 - 11:38 PM.


#26 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:25 PM

WC, is that the calculus Leibniz?



#27 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:29 PM

WC, is that the calculus Leibniz?

Indeed it is, or I'm 99.9% sure it is. It's a lot of the reason I like him; he was brilliant in everything

 

Him and Spinoza are really good reads. Come to think of it, I think Spinoza was the book I read. Can't recall now

 

Either way, I highly recommend some research on them. They are some of history's most brilliant minds, tackling the toughest question ever asked, in the most logical forms ever deduced. It's a disservice to oneself to not at least read a little on their thoughts, through some lecture or anything. 



#28 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:30 PM

I was 17, just about to turn 18. Early April, senior year of HS. Funnily enough, I was on Facebook, and saw this blatantly irreligious page, I can't remember what it was called. "Religion Poisons Everything", or something like that. It shocked me pretty bad because while I wasn't super strict, I very strongly believed in the God/heaven/hell that my Catholic church told me about. I clicked through a few posts, dismissed it, and thought I put it out of my mind. The page isn't even very good, it's mostly garbage/nonsense anti-religion arguments compressed into meme form. But I didn't know that having a negative view on religion was a thing until that point. I barely knew atheism existed.

Like I said, I thought it was out of my mind, but I stayed awake at night thinking for a few weeks after that, and then one day I didn't finish the day with a prayer to keep my loved ones healthy like I had every single day for as long as I could remember. I realized the next morning that I didn't really believe in anything religious anymore. I got obnoxious about it, and then simmered down after a year or so of that. Almost got kicked out of my house. all that good stuff. Now I'm just quietly agnostic. Any "what are we, why are we here, what is the universe" discussion I have now is driven by a scientific (Physics-centered, because that is what my degree is) viewpoint and I generally just avoid talking about supernatural/spiritual things.

The only thing I preach hard against is the existence of ghosts and things of that nature.


Interesting stuff, man. I always loved science and math but took the easy way out by studying finance and economics. Much simpler concepts, and I was able to ace my way through college without studying, and being drunk/hungover 90% of the time.

I wish I had taken more science courses and the one area where I'm still militanty atheist is when it comes to people trying to pass intelligent design off as science.

Richard Dawkins and some physicist (Krauss I believe had a documentary on Netflix that I really enjoyed.

So what kind of physics do you plan to focus on?

#29 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:33 PM


Interesting stuff, man. I always loved science and math but took the easy way out by studying finance and economics. Much simpler concepts, and I was able to ace my way through college without studying, and being drunk/hungover 90% of the time.

I wish I had taken more science courses and the one area where I'm still militanty atheist is when it comes to people trying to pass intelligent design off as science.

Richard Dawkins and some physicist (Krauss I believe had a documentary on Netflix that I really enjoyed.

So what kind of physics do you plan to focus on?

Astrophysics/Astronomy are what brought me to this point, those are what I wanted to learn. I really enjoyed everything I did as an undergrad though, and so I'm not limiting myself as I apply to places. I'm saying that those are my preferences but that I'm more than willing to do whatever they have an opening in. Relativity, particle physics, high energy, statistical, quantum stuff, whatever. I'm game.

No biophysics though. Can't stand bio. Sorry bio!!

Also, it's never too late to learn physics. I can try and help you out, point you in the right direction, if you're ever interested in trying

#30 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:37 PM

TRUMP!


Let's try to keep it on topic, man. Do you believe Trump is actually a Presbyterian or whatever he claims to be or do you think he does it to pander for votes? I believe Atheist still polls lower than criminals when it comes to the population at large being willing to vote for them.

I'm sure he was born and raised that way (Presbyterian I think?), but I don't imagine him asking himself WWJD before he makes a decision or anything like that. I don't imagine he's very religious in general though and I don't think Obama is all that religious either.

#31 WildCard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:38 PM

Raised Catholic. My liberal politics come from that upbringing; care for the needy, etc. But even as a youngster I could see the BS of religion. I don't believe in a diety but I remain open to the idea there may be more to existence, scientifically, than we perceive.

Meanwhile the odds are sadly high civilization will end over religion.

Can't really have a conversation on religion if we're going to completely dismiss one side on the first page ;)

 

 

There are a few ways this thread can go

 

1) Religion

2) Faith

3)Purpose / existence 

 

 

Preferably, I vote on the 3rd, but that's just me


Edited by WildCard, 20 December 2016 - 11:39 PM.


#32 North Buffalo

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:41 PM

Religion or Faith... If this one gets locked... do one on faith.  Not a great fan of religion... but I have seen too many things including the US ability to survive difficult political choices despite every attempt by the chattering classes to do us in, to not have faith in some sort of "Higher Power".



#33 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:41 PM

Can't really have a conversation on religion if we're going to completely dismiss one side on the first page ;)


There are a few ways this thread can go

1) Religion
2) Faith
3)Purpose / existence


Preferably, I vote on the 3rd, but that's just me

Steer it whichever way you prefer. What side of the coin do you side with? Do you believe in fate/pre-destination or do you believe in self determination?

Edited by Drunkard, 20 December 2016 - 11:42 PM.


#34 Randall Flagg

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:46 PM

Interesting stuff, man. I always loved science and math but took the easy way out by studying finance and economics. Much simpler concepts, and I was able to ace my way through college without studying, and being drunk/hungover 90% of the time.

I wish I had taken more science courses and the one area where I'm still militanty atheist is when it comes to people trying to pass intelligent design off as science.

Richard Dawkins and some physicist (Krauss I believe had a documentary on Netflix that I really enjoyed.

So what kind of physics do you plan to focus on?

I thought I answered this, did my post get deleted?



#35 Drunkard

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:48 PM

I thought I answered this, did my post get deleted?


If you did I never saw it. I've been bouncing back and forth between here, the gambling thread, and the Bills one though so I may have just missed it.

#36 beerme1

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:56 PM

Let's try to keep it on topic, man. Do you believe Trump is actually a Presbyterian or whatever he claims to be or do you think he does it to pander for votes? I believe Atheist still polls lower than criminals when it comes to the population at large being willing to vote for them.

I'm sure he was born and raised that way (Presbyterian I think?), but I don't imagine him asking himself WWJD before he makes a decision or anything like that. I don't imagine he's very religious in general though and I don't think Obama is all that religious either.

 

This seemed like the appropriate place to name drop.



#37 Randall Flagg

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 12:02 AM

If you did I never saw it. I've been bouncing back and forth between here, the gambling thread, and the Bills one though so I may have just missed it.

I must have closed before hitting "Post"

 

I did physics because I wanted to study Astrophysics/Astronomy, but I really enjoyed all of my undergrad courses. So I'm not limiting myself while applying to grad schools. I'm placing preference on those, but saying that I'm more than willing to study high energy physics, plasma physics, particle physics, statistical stuff, relativistic stuff, whatever. I'd be happy doing anything.

And, it's never too late to learn! I could try and help point you in the right direction if you ever wanted to start. It's a lot of work but sooooooo fulfilling. It's almost a spiritual experience in itself. 



#38 beerme1

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 12:09 AM

Politics is religion to some people no?


Religion is politics to some people no?



#39 North Buffalo

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 03:32 AM

Politics is religion to some people no?


Religion is politics to some people no?

1st statement politics is the best contact sport in Washington... Tougher than Football or Hockey...  check your ego at the door.



#40 pi2000

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 03:41 AM

Well, The Church of Moulson is in fact accepting new parishioners at this time.

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, ya'll need some serious spiritual healing... the type of healing only your Lord and Savior Matt Moulson can provide.





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