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Running Miller....Surprise: No Response


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#1 BamBam

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:48 PM

I don't know how all of you feel, but while I get the fact that the points are important it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody reacted to what happened tonight. Part of me wants to feel outraged, but at the same time this team has shown that it historically has not responded to Miller being run.

Its nice to see Lindy say that he was upset after the game, but truth be told, he never tolerated that crap when he was a player for this team. Razor said it best...you don't address stuff like this late in the season. You set the tone during the first 10 games that crap like this won't be put up with.

If Lindy told the players after the play to not go after Gomez, then so be it. He's the head coach, and its his decision.

I feel though...that it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody (on the ice at the time) responded immediately.
That Dog Don't Hunt!

#2 Eleven

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:56 PM

I don't know how all of you feel, but while I get the fact that the points are important it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody reacted to what happened tonight. Part of me wants to feel outraged, but at the same time this team has shown that it historically has not responded to Miller being run.

Its nice to see Lindy say that he was upset after the game, but truth be told, he never tolerated that crap when he was a player for this team. Razor said it best...you don't address stuff like this late in the season. You set the tone during the first 10 games that crap like this won't be put up with.

If Lindy told the players after the play to not go after Gomez, then so be it. He's the head coach, and its his decision.

I feel though...that it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody (on the ice at the time) responded immediately.
That Dog Don't Hunt!


See the GDT. This is being debated actively there.

#3 deluca67

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:07 PM

I don't know how all of you feel, but while I get the fact that the points are important it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody reacted to what happened tonight. Part of me wants to feel outraged, but at the same time this team has shown that it historically has not responded to Miller being run.

Its nice to see Lindy say that he was upset after the game, but truth be told, he never tolerated that crap when he was a player for this team. Razor said it best...you don't address stuff like this late in the season. You set the tone during the first 10 games that crap like this won't be put up with.

If Lindy told the players after the play to not go after Gomez, then so be it. He's the head coach, and its his decision.

I feel though...that it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody (on the ice at the time) responded immediately.
That Dog Don't Hunt!

This does deserve it's own thread. That may be the most important play of the season and the play we look back on as the point the Sabres were eliminated from the playoffs.

Lindy has no right to be upset. Team softness has been a trait since he became head coach. Hasek would be run regularly and now it's Miller's turn.

#4 BamBam

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:22 PM

This does deserve it's own thread. That may be the most important play of the season and the play we look back on as the point the Sabres were eliminated from the playoffs.

Lindy has no right to be upset. Team softness has been a trait since he became head coach. Hasek would be run regularly and now it's Miller's turn.


I had thought so to. I consider this to be a significant game changer that took place tonight.
I'd really like to know if guys like Mair, Rivet, Kaleta wanted to respond tonight. What about Goose? Everyone says this is our Gritty Leader who doesn't wear a letter. What was his take on this whole thing? Why didn't these guys respond.

Watching part of the Leafs/Canucks game, and if someone breaths wrong on Luongo there are guys like Bieska out there that simply do not allow it. Why isn't that the same here?

#5 thesportsbuff

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:25 PM

I had thought so to. I consider this to be a significant game changer that took place tonight.
I'd really like to know if guys look Mair, Rivet, Kaleta wanted to respond tonight. What about Goose? Everyone says this is out Gritty Leader who doesn't wear a letter. What was his take on this whole thing? Why didn't these guys respond.

Watching part of the Leafs/Canucks game, and if someone breaths wrong on Luongo there are guys like Bieska out there that simply do not allow it. Why isn't that the same here?


After Kaleta and Gomez were arguing from the benches, did Kaleta get another shift? I didn't notice him out there at all but I was multi tasking.

#6 tulax

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:40 PM

After Kaleta and Gomez were arguing from the benches, did Kaleta get another shift? I didn't notice him out there at all but I was multi tasking.


I thought after the Naslund penalty released Kaleta was on the ice at the same time as Gomez

#7 Derrico

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:34 AM

This does deserve it's own thread. That may be the most important play of the season and the play we look back on as the point the Sabres were eliminated from the playoffs.

Lindy has no right to be upset. Team softness has been a trait since he became head coach. Hasek would be run regularly and now it's Miller's turn.


Wow DeLuca, way to not over react saying the team will be out of the playoffs because of this one play. For one, it really didn't look like Gomez took a run at Miller in any way and for two, what does it say to run him after? We get a key guy possibly suspended? The Rags score on the 5 on 3 and then the 5 on 4 and take a point or two away from us after we worked so hard? How does Miller's ankle sprain get any better by us taking a run at him after? Just stop posting if u really have no concept of hockey or u just hate the sabres.

#8 carpandean

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:40 AM

I feel though...that it doesn't excuse the fact that nobody (on the ice at the time) responded immediately.

I agree that we should have responded, but the situation, as much as anything, dictated no response at the time. We were on the PK with Tallinder, Lydman, Roy and Pommer on the ice. Miller played the puck to his left with Lydman and Gomez tied up together coming in from his right. In the replay, you can watch Tallinder, Roy and Pommer follow the puck around the boards, basically turning away right as the collision occurred. Only Lydman really saw it happen. He probably thought that they were tied up and it was an accident. The other three turned around after the whistle and had a look like "wait, what just happened?" I'm not sure anyone on the ice other than Lydman had any idea what occurred.

#9 Falstaff

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:48 AM

Wow DeLuca, way to not over react saying the team will be out of the playoffs because of this one play. For one, it really didn't look like Gomez took a run at Miller in any way and for two, what does it say to run him after? We get a key guy possibly suspended? The Rags score on the 5 on 3 and then the 5 on 4 and take a point or two away from us after we worked so hard? How does Miller's ankle sprain get any better by us taking a run at him after? Just stop posting if u really have no concept of hockey or u just hate the sabres.

So you wait until later in the game. What was to be lost if you got after SG with less than a minute to play and a 2 goal lead? Let's say someone even gets suspended which is incredibly unlikely unless they are truly aggregious. It's a game or two, tops.

FWIW, I think the Sabres will miss the playoffs too, partly because they're soft, but mostly because I don't think they can keep going without Vanek and Miller for most of the stretch run. If RM has a high ankle sprain I think we'll be lucky to see him back before April. That kind of injury takes down NFL payers for 4-6 weeks if not longer and they need way less stability and flexibility in their ankles than a goalie needs. When TV comes back he's not going to be the same TV for a long time because he's going to drop a TON of weight while he's out. His strength and stamina are going to suffer and he might not get it back this year. Combine that with the collection of sissy marys they have and my anticipation of nothing coming in by way of trade and the writing is on the wall right now. Barring an act of God or a Jhonas Enroth call-up that evokes memories of Patrick Roy we are in deep deep trouble.

#10 ...

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:06 AM

FWIW, I think the Sabres will miss the playoffs too, partly because they're soft, but mostly because I don't think they can keep going without Vanek and Miller for most of the stretch run. If RM has a high ankle sprain I think we'll be lucky to see him back before April. That kind of injury takes down NFL payers for 4-6 weeks if not longer and they need way less stability and flexibility in their ankles than a goalie needs. When TV comes back he's not going to be the same TV for a long time because he's going to drop a TON of weight while he's out. His strength and stamina are going to suffer and he might not get it back this year. Combine that with the collection of sissy marys they have and my anticipation of nothing coming in by way of trade and the writing is on the wall right now. Barring an act of God or a Jhonas Enroth call-up that evokes memories of Patrick Roy we are in deep deep trouble.


I guess for you, deluca, and others it's time to find a new team. No better time than when your team is down to find something better to hitch your wagon to. You'll spare yourself a lot of duress, and you'll spare the people around you.

I personally would prefer the Sabres did something to spare you, and the rest of us, the heartache of a season cut short by injuries and lack of fortitude. Can they do it? Who knows - I think they COULD - but they have to want to do it. We have seen them want to win games, and we have seen them not give a damn. When they want to win games it looks as though they could beat anyone - so, again, they COULD stay in the top eight. Actually, I don't think it's so much of a stretch having had a chance to watch some of the other contenders.

As I said in the GDT, though, if no one else, Lindy is the one person who won't use Miller and Vanek as excuses for not making the playoffs. He'll say "it's tough, but it's no excuse." If he can get the players to believe then I don't think we're much worse off than we were before the NYR game started. Lalime is not that bad of a goalie - the team just needs to not loose heart in front of him.

So, put on a happy face! It's just entertainment. Why torture yourself and others by fretting and fuming the rest of the season and subsequent off-season? Unless you're into that sort of thing.

#11 Falstaff

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:45 AM

I guess for you, deluca, and others it's time to find a new team. No better time than when your team is down to find something better to hitch your wagon to. You'll spare yourself a lot of duress, and you'll spare the people around you.

Seriously? We can't be objective about our own team? Must we all be fanboys who have pictures of Ryan Miller as Jesus for avatars? Before these two injuries they were IMO a 6-8 seed who would be one and done. Am I wrong, possibly. Have I watched enough hockey in my life to know which teams have a pulse and which ones are floating and waiting to be flushed? You betcha. I would love them to prove me wrong and I will keep watching and hoping they do. But to say that someone is a bandwagon fan because they aren't thrilled that the two best players on a mediocre team will be hurt for most if not all of March is asinine.

I don't like the make-up of this team and I haven't cared for their style of play for a long time. I will continue to pull for them but that doesn't mean I can't pine for a more physical team. #1 I find it to be more entertaining. #2 having a blend of skill and grit is winning hockey, for a while we had way more skill than grit and we had so much skill we could overwhelm most teams. Now our skill level is down but the grit hasn't come up to compensate so you're left with guys on the ice that neither score enough nor hit enough. You'd put up with Kotlik's floating if he was a 35-40 goal scorer. He's not. You'd tolerate his reduced scoring if he were more physical in the corners or went in front of the net more. He doesn't.

Being able to call a spade a spade doesn't make one less of a fan and it doen't mean we should go away. You want some players on the team I like? here ya go. I like Butler, I like Rivet, I love Kaleta, I like Sekera, I like Paille when he plays like he did tonight, I like Gaustad, I like Pominville, I like Ellis a lot, I like Roy when he's not diving, I like Vanek because he stands in front of the net and takes his pounding like a man, I like Miller though I think we overrate him collectively.

I don't like Afinogenov and I don't think I need to justify that. I don't like Kotalik because IMO he floats way too much and is satisfied to take the shot from the outside when he'd be a better player if he got to the net. I don't like Lydman because he gets run over defensively and his offense doesn't offset his defense, watching Dan Boyle take Toni to the net last week made me ill, we're not talking about Cam Neely here. I don't like Connolly because I think he plays when he wants to and sits out a disproprtionate number of games compared to peers for relatively minor injuries. For example, Vanek will miss fewer games with a broken jaw than Connolly will have missed for a cracked rib. Are cracked ribs fun? Hell no, but having a broken jaw is way worse. I'm excluding the concussions because those are big injuries which i begrudge no one. Here's the list of ailments since the lockout.

Jan 9, 2009: Missed 24 games (broken rib).
Nov 1, 2008: Missed 10 games (back injury).
Apr 5, 2008: Missed the last 12 games of the regular season (hip injury).
Mar 8, 2008: Missed 1 game (hip injury).
Feb 23, 2008: Missed 1 game (groin).
Feb 10, 2008: Missed 13 games (groin).
Dec 26, 2007: Missed 2 games (illness).
Nov 21, 2007: Missed 5 games (strained oblique muscle).
Apr 7, 2007: Missed 80 games (concussion). (I know I'm not counting the concussions but I don't give all 80 to the concussion, he had a "stress fracture" in January when he was supposed to come back that shut him down again.)
Mar 29, 2006: Missed 7 games (knee injury).
Mar 9, 2006: Missed 12 games (knee injury).
Aug 15, 2005: Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Buffalo Sabres to a one-year contract.
Jul 31, 2005: Buffalo Sabres tendered a qualifying offer.

#12 BamBam

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 04:35 AM

I realize that sports are entertainment, and to compare any form of entertainment to "real life" might not be fair but in another thread we all recently spoke about "Why Buffalo (The City) is different from other Cities" and I feel its because we so closely identify with our weather, and sports teams. Typically, when any of those take a bad wrap by others outside of the city, people in WNY come together. Thats the type of town it is.

Its why so many fans like guys like Razor, Goose, Mair, Kaleta, Rivet etc. They remind us of ourselves...our friends, and what its like to be a WNY'er......and its for those reasons that I feel its difficult for many fans to sit back and see our franchise goalie run on several occasions and nobody step up to defend him.

#13 Kristian

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:06 AM

Seriously? We can't be objective about our own team? Must we all be fanboys who have pictures of Ryan Miller as Jesus for avatars? Before these two injuries they were IMO a 6-8 seed who would be one and done. Am I wrong, possibly. Have I watched enough hockey in my life to know which teams have a pulse and which ones are floating and waiting to be flushed? You betcha. I would love them to prove me wrong and I will keep watching and hoping they do. But to say that someone is a bandwagon fan because they aren't thrilled that the two best players on a mediocre team will be hurt for most if not all of March is asinine.

I don't like the make-up of this team and I haven't cared for their style of play for a long time. I will continue to pull for them but that doesn't mean I can't pine for a more physical team. #1 I find it to be more entertaining. #2 having a blend of skill and grit is winning hockey, for a while we had way more skill than grit and we had so much skill we could overwhelm most teams. Now our skill level is down but the grit hasn't come up to compensate so you're left with guys on the ice that neither score enough nor hit enough. You'd put up with Kotlik's floating if he was a 35-40 goal scorer. He's not. You'd tolerate his reduced scoring if he were more physical in the corners or went in front of the net more. He doesn't.


Quoted for truth.

Just because we don't all jump up and down screaming our heads off when Chokin' Jochen finally gets a goal, why does that equate into hating the team?

Couldn't agree more about the make-up of the team, as IMHO it seems as though we're stuck between two chairs. We're not talented enough to play run-and-gun, and we're not strong or good enough defensively to play a grind-it-out defensive type of game.

Seriously, which is it? You need to pick a style of play and then try and run with it, much like you need to pick a field of expertise in which to educate yourself in life.

As said in another thread, I believe the best word to describe this team right now is "vanilla". Not great, not bad, not all finesse, not all muck and grind. Just vanilla.

#14 nucci

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 07:22 AM

I guess for you, deluca, and others it's time to find a new team. No better time than when your team is down to find something better to hitch your wagon to. You'll spare yourself a lot of duress, and you'll spare the people around you.

I personally would prefer the Sabres did something to spare you, and the rest of us, the heartache of a season cut short by injuries and lack of fortitude. Can they do it? Who knows - I think they COULD - but they have to want to do it. We have seen them want to win games, and we have seen them not give a damn. When they want to win games it looks as though they could beat anyone - so, again, they COULD stay in the top eight. Actually, I don't think it's so much of a stretch having had a chance to watch some of the other contenders.

As I said in the GDT, though, if no one else, Lindy is the one person who won't use Miller and Vanek as excuses for not making the playoffs. He'll say "it's tough, but it's no excuse." If he can get the players to believe then I don't think we're much worse off than we were before the NYR game started. Lalime is not that bad of a goalie - the team just needs to not loose heart in front of him.

So, put on a happy face! It's just entertainment. Why torture yourself and others by fretting and fuming the rest of the season and subsequent off-season? Unless you're into that sort of thing.

What does this post mean? You should start watching tennis or bowling. This is hockey. If you ever played the game,you would know if the opponent touches your goalie, you drill them. THIS IS HOCKEY!!

#15 billsrcursed

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 07:44 AM

What's funny is some of you guys were calling for Miller to play less, myself included. Looks like we got our wish....

I refuse to stop watching Sabres games because Vanek and Miller are out. I still have faith in this team and will continue cheering for them.

As far as SG goes, well, it would have been nice to see someone go after him, but look who was on the ice at the time <_<

It wasn't really the best time to jump him either, as someone else posted, due to the fact we would be bringing a cold goalie into a 5-3 situation, not only handing them a goal, but momentum as well. BUT.....the guys shouldn't have been thinking about that. They should have been thinking about the fact that one of their teammates, their best player, and friend, just got bumped and is down and all hell shoulda broke loose. That's not today's Sabres, so either deal with it or move on to another team because it ain't gonna change.....

#16 SabresFan526

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:51 AM

As far as SG goes, well, it would have been nice to see someone go after him, but look who was on the ice at the time <_<

It wasn't really the best time to jump him either, as someone else posted, due to the fact we would be bringing a cold goalie into a 5-3 situation, not only handing them a goal, but momentum as well. BUT.....the guys shouldn't have been thinking about that. They should have been thinking about the fact that one of their teammates, their best player, and friend, just got bumped and is down and all hell shoulda broke loose. That's not today's Sabres, so either deal with it or move on to another team because it ain't gonna change.....


I agree here. The time and place to respond to Gomez was not at that time, especially when they were already on the PK. But, this should have never happened in the first place. Dubinsky, Orr, and Callahan were taking runs at Miller all night long much before Gomez injured Miller. But the Sabres didn't respond to any of those guys earlier on. Had they responded, maybe Gomez doesn't make the play. Dubinsky in particular was running Miller all night long. I don't understand why neither Butler nor Rivet responded. Lindy's quote yesterday was he wanted to keep Butler in the lineup for his toughness. Well, where was the toughness? Even if Rivet and Butler were not on the ice at that moment, they had the entire third period to get back at Gomez, Dubinsky, and the rest of the Rangers and they did nothing. That's what bothers me.

They've been letting this happen way too often over the last few years. It's time to get rid of the soft defenseman and replace them with guys who will kill people in front of the crease. I think the makeup of any top 6 should be 3 rough, mean, and nasty guys, and three finesse, skill guys. This team has Rivet and Butler as their "mean/nasty" guys even though I would not consider Butler nasty. They have Lydman and Tallinder who are basically neither good enough offensively to be considered skilled or mean enough to be considered nasty. And then, you have Spacek and Sekera who are offensive. Teppo is considered offensive as well. I'd be willing to get rid of both Lydman and Tallinder to get one more mean SOB to play in front of our goalies because this is ridiculous. You just can't let your goalie get run.

#17 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 09:55 AM

Wow DeLuca, way to not over react saying the team will be out of the playoffs because of this one play. For one, it really didn't look like Gomez took a run at Miller in any way and for two, what does it say to run him after? We get a key guy possibly suspended? The Rags score on the 5 on 3 and then the 5 on 4 and take a point or two away from us after we worked so hard? How does Miller's ankle sprain get any better by us taking a run at him after? Just stop posting if u really have no concept of hockey or u just hate the sabres.

It is apparent that you no idea what we are talking about.

It is shocking to see that the apathy that has taken over this franchise has spilled to some of it's fans. Where is your heart? How can you not care that Miller has been taken out? Before this clown here or any other poster want's to question why I am a fan you better ask yourself. As a fan why don't you care more? Don't question my loyalty when post after post its proven you don't have the passion for this team I do and don't care enough to get angry and expect results when the most important player the Sabres have gets taken out accidentally or not.

#18 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 09:57 AM

I guess for you, deluca, and others it's time to find a new team. No better time than when your team is down to find something better to hitch your wagon to. You'll spare yourself a lot of duress, and you'll spare the people around you.

I personally would prefer the Sabres did something to spare you, and the rest of us, the heartache of a season cut short by injuries and lack of fortitude. Can they do it? Who knows - I think they COULD - but they have to want to do it. We have seen them want to win games, and we have seen them not give a damn. When they want to win games it looks as though they could beat anyone - so, again, they COULD stay in the top eight. Actually, I don't think it's so much of a stretch having had a chance to watch some of the other contenders.

As I said in the GDT, though, if no one else, Lindy is the one person who won't use Miller and Vanek as excuses for not making the playoffs. He'll say "it's tough, but it's no excuse." If he can get the players to believe then I don't think we're much worse off than we were before the NYR game started. Lalime is not that bad of a goalie - the team just needs to not loose heart in front of him.

So, put on a happy face! It's just entertainment. Why torture yourself and others by fretting and fuming the rest of the season and subsequent off-season? Unless you're into that sort of thing.

Because we care. Obviously more than some.

#19 nucci

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:00 AM

Wow DeLuca, way to not over react saying the team will be out of the playoffs because of this one play. For one, it really didn't look like Gomez took a run at Miller in any way and for two, what does it say to run him after? We get a key guy possibly suspended? The Rags score on the 5 on 3 and then the 5 on 4 and take a point or two away from us after we worked so hard? How does Miller's ankle sprain get any better by us taking a run at him after? Just stop posting if u really have no concept of hockey or u just hate the sabres.

You can criticize DeLuca all you want. I don't always agree with him but he is right about this. You do not let the opponent touch your goalie! It is very simple. Even if the response is a shove, push, cross-check, whatever. You let the other team know to stay away from the goalie. What would Korab, Playfair , or Mike Ramsey have done?

#20 SwampD

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:08 AM

I'm glad we chose the 2 points over retribution last night. I'll wait until March 21st to decide whether we responded correctly. If a message isn't sent in that game, then I'll be pissed.

#21 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:16 AM

I'm glad we chose the 2 points over retribution last night. I'll wait until March 21st to decide whether we responded correctly. If a message isn't sent in that game, then I'll be pissed.

Do you really expect them to? Honestly.

And about the two points? Gomez was on the ice as the clock wound down. They could have gone after him then and it wouldn't have cost them anything.

#22 SabresFan526

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:24 AM

I have disagreed with Deluca on many occasions on this board. But, this may be the one, and only time, where I actually agree with him. The lack of response by the Sabres when Miller went down was heartless and gutless. The problem I have is not that they didn't respond, but this should have never happened in the first place. Dubinsky was running Miller all game long and the Sabres did not respond then. How could you expect them to respond after Miller gets hurt when they have been doing nothing all game long? Where is our captain? Where is Kaleta? Where are Mair and Goose? Where are the guys who are supposed to provide the grit on this team when our goalie, leader, and reason for doing so well this year goes down to injury? Why didn't anyone take a run at Lundqvist? This team did absolutely nothing.

I can only hope that the players are angry now and do something about it, but knowing these Sabres, they will pretend like nothing happened, continue not defending their goalie and stay the course and come out flat in the next game. That seems to be how they always react to adversity is to come out flat in the next game. I hope the mentality of the Sabres have changed, but my guess would be no.

#23 carpandean

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:43 AM

Where is our captain?

In the box? :nana:

Seriously, though, I don't question the grit of any of those players. All of them (especially Rivet, Goose and Maire) have shown that they need little reason to drop the gloves, much less a big one like this. If I had to guess, Lindy made a judgment call that, given Miller might be out for a while, those two points were critical and told them not to retaliate. I'm torn on that call, but as others have pointed out, the time to stop this was 30 games ago. Unless they drastically rise or fall in the standings, they will spend the rest of the season on such a fine cusp that every game will be critical.

#24 Eleven

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

I'm still putting my trust in the team and believing that they reacted as they thought they should have. Kaleta, Gaustad, Mair, and Rivet all have demonstrated that they stand up for teammates when they think it's necessary, and certainly, Ruff isn't one to refrain from ordering hits when he thinks it's necessary.

By the way, BamBam--I wasn't discouraging this discussion as a separate thread; I just didn't want you to miss what was being said in the GDT.

DeLuca and a few others, people's thoughts on this incident have nothing to do with whether they're committed fans. And really, aren't most of us grown-ups by now?

#25 SwampD

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:55 AM

In the box? :nana:

Seriously, though, I don't question the grit of any of those players. All of them (especially Rivet, Goose and Maire) have shown that they need little reason to drop the gloves, much less a big one like this. If I had to guess, Lindy made a judgment call that, given Miller might be out for a while, those two points were critical and told them not to retaliate. I'm torn on that call, but as others have pointed out, the time to stop this was 30 games ago. Unless they drastically rise or fall in the standings, they will spend the rest of the season on such a fine cusp that every game will be critical.

Carp, I think you had it right in the GDT. We all had the benefit replays from every angle. The players on the ice were on the PK and didn't see it. And without replays in the arena the rest of them didn't know what happened. When they go back and watch the tape, I believe that they will see what he did and pay back SG in March.

And Miller wasn't getting "run all game", as was stated earlier, any more than any goalie in every game.

#26 BamBam

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:58 AM

I'm still putting my trust in the team and believing that they reacted as they thought they should have. Kaleta, Gaustad, Mair, and Rivet all have demonstrated that they stand up for teammates when they think it's necessary, and certainly, Ruff isn't one to refrain from ordering hits when he thinks it's necessary.

By the way, BamBam--I wasn't discouraging this discussion as a separate thread; I just didn't want you to miss what was being said in the GDT.

DeLuca and a few others, people's thoughts on this incident have nothing to do with whether they're committed fans. And really, aren't most of us grown-ups by now?


I didn't think that... Thank you for the heads up. I went there, and figured that we were all going to want to vent on this.
Thank you though.

#27 SwampD

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:00 AM

And really, aren't most of us grown-ups by now?

:lol:

My Bloody Mary almost squirted out of my nose when I read this.

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:02 AM

If last night pissed you off, then you should find a new team because you're not going to get what you seem to think is "heart" out of this Sabres team.

If you listened to the Lindy post game interview, then I think it should be clear that HE is the one who told them to not to respond. What was that prolonged conversation about between Lindy and the ref that Lindy wouldn't comment on? I'll bet dollars to donuts the ref told Lindy that "it was an accident: if you respond I'm throwing your players out of the game."

Who did make an attempt? The Skill. What if The Skill would have been hurt while trying to get "our" revenge? What would you say then? What if the Sabres lost the game, while doing little more than making Gomez chuckle at "our" attempts at payback? Because you know at the first sign of trouble that guy would have been off the ice.

It'd be stupid for Lindy to risk having more players injured in that game when already his #1 goalie and #1 forward are out. He seems to think they have a legit shot and that the playoffs are a more worthwhile goal - now- than anything else they can do.

Remember that this was the culmination of an entire season of being soft, of allowing their goalies to be bumped and run. The book was written long before this game - how much of a point would have been made now that the damage is done; the book is closed?

And what do pissed off fans do? What do you do with this anger of yours? Stop going to games, stop buying product, stop watching or listening to the games, beat your wife and kids - how exactly, other than through incessant bitching and moaning, which goes on all of the time anyway, how exactly do you get your point across to the team? Do you just become that much more miserable?

#29 BamBam

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:03 AM

I have disagreed with Deluca on many occasions on this board. But, this may be the one, and only time, where I actually agree with him. The lack of response by the Sabres when Miller went down was heartless and gutless. The problem I have is not that they didn't respond, but this should have never happened in the first place. Dubinsky was running Miller all game long and the Sabres did not respond then. How could you expect them to respond after Miller gets hurt when they have been doing nothing all game long? Where is our captain? Where is Kaleta? Where are Mair and Goose? Where are the guys who are supposed to provide the grit on this team when our goalie, leader, and reason for doing so well this year goes down to injury? Why didn't anyone take a run at Lundqvist? This team did absolutely nothing.

I can only hope that the players are angry now and do something about it, but knowing these Sabres, they will pretend like nothing happened, continue not defending their goalie and stay the course and come out flat in the next game. That seems to be how they always react to adversity is to come out flat in the next game. I hope the mentality of the Sabres have changed, but my guess would be no.


I said the exact same thing only because as a player Lindy never put up for this. If someone ran our guys Lindy was one of the first to jump in. So I get the fact that he has to tell everyone in his presser that he needs the team to focus on the points, but you could tell that he was pissed, and felt sick about the win, and more importantly the lack of response. Maybe it was his call, maybe he is being a good company man, or maybe he is just trying to protect his guys from the fan/media backlash. Whatever it was...you could tell it was eating him up, and he was sick about it.

#30 nucci

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:32 AM

If last night pissed you off, then you should find a new team because you're not going to get what you seem to think is "heart" out of this Sabres team.

If you listened to the Lindy post game interview, then I think it should be clear that HE is the one who told them to not to respond. What was that prolonged conversation about between Lindy and the ref that Lindy wouldn't comment on? I'll bet dollars to donuts the ref told Lindy that "it was an accident: if you respond I'm throwing your players out of the game."

Who did make an attempt? The Skill. What if The Skill would have been hurt while trying to get "our" revenge? What would you say then? What if the Sabres lost the game, while doing little more than making Gomez chuckle at "our" attempts at payback? Because you know at the first sign of trouble that guy would have been off the ice.

It'd be stupid for Lindy to risk having more players injured in that game when already his #1 goalie and #1 forward are out. He seems to think they have a legit shot and that the playoffs are a more worthwhile goal - now- than anything else they can do.

Remember that this was the culmination of an entire season of being soft, of allowing their goalies to be bumped and run. The book was written long before this game - how much of a point would have been made now that the damage is done; the book is closed?

And what do pissed off fans do? What do you do with this anger of yours? Stop going to games, stop buying product, stop watching or listening to the games, beat your wife and kids - how exactly, other than through incessant bitching and moaning, which goes on all of the time anyway, how exactly do you get your point across to the team? Do you just become that much more miserable?

So we are not allowed to get pissed off anymore? We should not show any passion and just accept the way things are without reacting?

#31 BamBam

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:06 PM

If last night pissed you off, then you should find a new team because you're not going to get what you seem to think is "heart" out of this Sabres team.


I may be pissed or disappointed in a family member from time to time, but I don't go out and start disowning those people, and find new family. Same goes for being a fan. You're a fan of the team, and it comes with the good and the bad. Doesn't mean you can't point out areas of improvement or something that your dissatisfied with.

I think many people are saying is that if we truly are the "Blue Collar" type team that the Execs of the Front Office have been claiming for years on end then start playing like it. Show some toughness, show that like people in WNY you have a spine and that you'll be there for your wingman.
Nuff Said.

#32 cilevel

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:09 PM

I had thought so to. I consider this to be a significant game changer that took place tonight.
I'd really like to know if guys like Mair, Rivet, Kaleta wanted to respond tonight. What about Goose? Everyone says this is our Gritty Leader who doesn't wear a letter. What was his take on this whole thing? Why didn't these guys respond.

Watching part of the Leafs/Canucks game, and if someone breaths wrong on Luongo there are guys like Bieska out there that simply do not allow it. Why isn't that the same here?


I agree, you watch any other team's games and you see them regularly protect their goaltender. In fact, the only team I know of that does not do this is, unfortunately, our Sabres.

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:47 PM

I may be pissed or disappointed in a family member from time to time, but I don't go out and start disowning those people, and find new family. Same goes for being a fan. You're a fan of the team, and it comes with the good and the bad. Doesn't mean you can't point out areas of improvement or something that your dissatisfied with.

I think many people are saying is that if we truly are the "Blue Collar" type team that the Execs of the Front Office have been claiming for years on end then start playing like it. Show some toughness, show that like people in WNY you have a spine and that you'll be there for your wingman.
Nuff Said.


But at what price? So they "get even" with Gomez, or run Lundqvist and someone else gets hurt, or someone gets a few games suspension, and they lose the game. What do they walk away with then? An injured goalie. THEY COULDN'T MAKE A STATEMENT LAST NIGHT EVEN IF THEY TRIED. THE BOOK WAS WRITTEN LONG BEFORE THE GAME. Any statement last night would have been "piss off the Sabres and they will dig themselves into a deeper hole".

And then the "fans" would howl and moan about that.

This is the team we have this season. Do you want them to make the playoffs? Lindy needed to make a choice and I agree with his decision - why risk the playoffs by doing "something" stupid; he kept his eyes on the prize. What I'm saying is that if these realities aren't acceptable then this Sabres team isn't the team for you. You might want to consider tuning them out until the beginning of next season because you will perpetually be disappointed.

You don't choose family. You do choose the team you follow.

But if you want to use the family member analogy - wouldn't you use a little more reason than people are showing here? How can you expect a family member to make the same decisions that you would make - especially in situations you weren't involved in and can only evaluate in hindsight? I bet you would give that person a lot more leeway. But if you don't, then what do you do - bitch about that family member to everyone else? Do you confront them through third parties (message boards and media) and tell them "what they need to do"? ######. The analogy doesn't work like you want it to.

The way I see it Lindy had to make a choice: he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. He decided to cut his losses and walk away with the points. At this point in the season, with the team that he has, that was the wisest choice to make despite not being the most palatable.

#34 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:14 PM

Carp, I think you had it right in the GDT. We all had the benefit replays from every angle. The players on the ice were on the PK and didn't see it. And without replays in the arena the rest of them didn't know what happened. When they go back and watch the tape, I believe that they will see what he did and pay back SG in March.

And Miller wasn't getting "run all game", as was stated earlier, any more than any goalie in every game.

I call bullzhit on this one. The play happened where the puck was. The other guys on the ice weren't following the play? And if they didn't see the play they certainly saw Miller crawling back to the crease. There will be no pay back in March or at anytime. This team doesn't care enough to.

#35 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:19 PM

But at what price? So they "get even" with Gomez, or run Lundqvist and someone else gets hurt, or someone gets a few games suspension, and they lose the game. What do they walk away with then? An injured goalie. THEY COULDN'T MAKE A STATEMENT LAST NIGHT EVEN IF THEY TRIED. THE BOOK WAS WRITTEN LONG BEFORE THE GAME. Any statement last night would have been "piss off the Sabres and they will dig themselves into a deeper hole".

And then the "fans" would howl and moan about that.

This is the team we have this season. Do you want them to make the playoffs? Lindy needed to make a choice and I agree with his decision - why risk the playoffs by doing "something" stupid; he kept his eyes on the prize. What I'm saying is that if these realities aren't acceptable then this Sabres team isn't the team for you. You might want to consider tuning them out until the beginning of next season because you will perpetually be disappointed.

You don't choose family. You do choose the team you follow.

But if you want to use the family member analogy - wouldn't you use a little more reason than people are showing here? How can you expect a family member to make the same decisions that you would make - especially in situations you weren't involved in and can only evaluate in hindsight? I bet you would give that person a lot more leeway. But if you don't, then what do you do - bitch about that family member to everyone else? Do you confront them through third parties (message boards and media) and tell them "what they need to do"? ######. The analogy doesn't work like you want it to.

The way I see it Lindy had to make a choice: he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. He decided to cut his losses and walk away with the points. At this point in the season, with the team that he has, that was the wisest choice to make despite not being the most palatable.

This is just a another lame excuse for this team unwillingness to protect their own. Of course some will be happy with a team of pu$$ies. Some of us who have been here a lot longer remember the days when this franchise had some sack and the running of their goalie wouldn't have tolerated. What isn't acceptable is having a team unwilling to defend it's self and fans who defend such cowardice. Last night the franchise paid a heavy price for their continued cowardice.

#36 NowDoYouBelieve

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:22 PM

This is just a another lame excuse for this team unwillingness to protect their own. Of course some will be happy with a team of pu$$ies. Some of us who have been here a lot longer remember the days when this franchise had some sack and the running of their goalie wouldn't have tolerated. What isn't acceptable is having a team unwilling to defend it's self and fans who defend such cowardice. Last night the franchise paid a heavy price for their continued cowardice.


You act as if the team has a long history of not standing up for its key players. Give me some other examples. I seem to remember a brawl with Ottawa. I also remember the game when Ovechkin shoved Briere into the boards. Gaustad and Mair got thrown out of that one. Seriously, what incidences besides last night would make you qualify the Sabres as being pu$$ies.

#37 carpandean

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:35 PM

I call bullzhit on this one. The play happened where the puck was. The other guys on the ice weren't following the play? And if they didn't see the play they certainly saw Miller crawling back to the crease. There will be no pay back in March or at anytime. This team doesn't care enough to.

For the guys on the ice, they were definitely following the play, including following the puck when Miller sent it around the boards before being hit. Watch their heads and their reactions when the whistle is blown. They saw Miller crawling in the crease, but not why. Since Lydman, the only one who saw it first-hand wasn't pounding on Gomez, why would they assume that he deserved to be?

For the rest of the guys on the bench, I'm sure most everyone saw the hit. Whether they thought it was intentional/dirty or not, only they know. Whether Lindy told them not to retaliate, again, only they know.

In a two goal game, the only "safe" opportunity that they had would have been to put out Mair, Gaustad, Kaleta, Rivet and, I guess, Butler for the faceoff at 19:05. If they could have kept the Rangers from scoring for 30 or 40 seconds, then Gomez and/or Lundqvist could have been run by Kaleta and/or Mair (don't want anyone else in that group suspended.) Not sure what the Rangers would have done when those five came out to take a faceoff against Drury, Gomez, Dubinsky, Zherdev, Naslund and Redden. No doubt, a brawl would have ensued, but with those guys, that would have been OK for us, even though we would have been outnumbered (assuming Patty Lalime wouldn't have gotten into it against a skater ... actually, somebody probably would have gone after him.)

#38 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:37 PM

You act as if the team has a long history of not standing up for its key players. Give me some other examples. I seem to remember a brawl with Ottawa. I also remember the game when Ovechkin shoved Briere into the boards. Gaustad and Mair got thrown out of that one. Seriously, what incidences besides last night would make you qualify the Sabres as being pu$$ies.

Miller getting run against the Sens the other night and pretty much every other night over the past few seasons. The times this season when teams have taken runs at Vanek. How about after Connolly got knocked out this season? Clean hit or not other teams defend their players. The Sabres don't. The word is out on the Sabres and that's why Gomez went into Miller with no fear.

#39 deluca67

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:45 PM

For the guys on the ice, they were definitely following the play, including following the puck when Miller sent it around the boards before being hit. Watch their heads and their reactions when the whistle is blown. They saw Miller crawling in the crease, but not why. Since Lydman, the only one who saw it first-hand wasn't pounding on Gomez, why would they assume that he deserved to be?

For the rest of the guys on the bench, I'm sure most everyone saw the hit. Whether they thought it was intentional/dirty or not, only they know. Whether Lindy told them not to retaliate, again, only they know.

In a two goal game, the only "safe" opportunity that they had would have been to put out Mair, Gaustad, Kaleta, Rivet and, I guess, Butler for the faceoff at 19:05. If they could have kept the Rangers from scoring for 30 or 40 seconds, then Gomez and/or Lundqvist could have been run by Kaleta and/or Mair (don't want anyone else in that group suspended.) Not sure what the Rangers would have done when those five came out to take a faceoff against Drury, Gomez, Dubinsky, Zherdev, Naslund and Redden. No doubt, a brawl would have ensued, but with those guys, that would have been OK for us, even though we would have been outnumbered (assuming Patty Lalime wouldn't have gotten into it against a skater ... actually, somebody probably would have gone after him.)

The score and time remaining is meaningless. It's always the excuse the Sabres use. There isn't one player on that roster I wouldn't gladly give up to a 10-20 game suspension in order to send a message league wide that running the Sabres goaltender will get your goalie knocked out of the game. You were right earlier, this should have been addressed 30 games ago. I'll go one further and say it should have have been addressed 4-5 years ago. Their unwillingness has cost them their most important player and at the most critical time of the year. They have no one to blame but themselves.

#40 Buffalo Wings

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:50 PM

My 2 cents....

I agree with Deluca and those who think the Sabres should have responded. I don't think they should have "responded" right away (during the PK), but once they went up 4-1, Gomez should have been considered fair game.

I understand why they didn't. I know they usually don't respond to things like this and their "softness" prevails more often than not, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lindy spread the word to the bench to not take a run at Gomez. The Sabres had control of the game and there's no reason to even risk taking a penalty to give the Rags an advantage.

I'd like to see some business taken care of on March 21st, but they probably won't....but not necessarily because they're soft. They may be in a more precarious position in the standings in a month to risk losing a game, so I don't expect it for that reason unless they're leading comfortably in that game.

As for Gomez, I have zero doubt that he intentionally tried to run into Miller, but I doubt he meant to injure him. Outside of names like Chris Neil or Darcy Tucker, I don't know many hockey players who intend to injure another. But because Miller is injured because of this, I'd be calling the league to review the whole thing (yes, I know they wouldn't do anything).