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Samson the Reinharted: What do you expect of him?


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#41 GoPuckYourself

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 01:06 AM

I just don't think Sam has much more to offer at the wing than what we've seen. His shot is only okay, he doesn't have the speed to fly down the wing, and he's not going to be barreling into the corners to win a bunch of battles physically. I think this is especially true on Eichel's wing--I want Jack with a skilled plumber who can cover defensively, and a finisher. Sam is neither of those things. As Dudacek has outlined, his skills are his smarts and puck distribution, neither of which gets a ton of work when Eichel is flying around with the puck 75% of the time. If Reinhart simply must remain at the wing, I'd rather see him with O'Reilly.

Strawman alert! Strawman alert!

 

You have no credentials to evaluate a player on any type of level other than using the eyeball test which your eyes obviously need to be checked. He isn't the fastest guy on the ice but it's not like he's a snail either. I have no clue what you mean by strawman alert.



#42 JohnnyK

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:31 AM

Sam will be fine



#43 ShadowLiger

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:54 AM

I think Reinhart with ROR and Eichel with Okposo is the best way to go.

#44 qwksndmonster

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:03 PM

You have no credentials to evaluate a player on any type of level other than using the eyeball test which your eyes obviously need to be checked. He isn't the fastest guy on the ice but it's not like he's a snail either. I have no clue what you mean by strawman alert.

lulz

#45 inkman

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:06 PM

I expect tremendous flow, slick sauces and sublime playmaking

#46 WildCard

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:33 PM

You have no credentials to evaluate a player on any type of level other than using the eyeball test which your eyes obviously need to be checked. He isn't the fastest guy on the ice but it's not like he's a snail either. I have no clue what you mean by strawman alert.

Picked one of what? The 5 or so most knowledgeable people on here? :lol:

#47 Leaf Blower

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:50 PM

80GP, 20G, 38A, 58P.

That's first line production at 21.

My prediction is Sam's production is a slow and steady upward trend. A huge jump wouldn't allow him to fly under the radar, and that's what I think he's going to do, throughout his career.


Well said

#48 Thorny

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 11:45 PM

I expect tremendous flow, slick sauces and sublime playmaking


I'm glad you listed the bolded first, as this is of utmost importance. He cut it pretty short during last season. We'll see.

#49 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:11 AM

Paul Hamilton

Botterill said they won't be negotiating with 23 until next year



#50 ShadowLiger

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:13 AM

The #Sabres aren't talking contract extension with Sam Reinhart right now, per Jason Botterill.



#51 WildCard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:14 AM

So Reinhart gets a show-me year. Bad decision from Botterill IMO, it looks like he isn't a big Samson fan



#52 pi2000

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:30 AM

So Reinhart gets a show-me year. Bad decision from Botterill IMO, it looks like he isn't a big Samson fan


I don't get that impression. He's just not on Jack's level. He's not going anywhere.

#53 WildCard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:31 AM

I don't get that impression. He's just not on Jack's level. He's not going anywhere.

Do you believe he'll have a better season than last year?



#54 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:32 AM

To me it just means that right now the focus is signing Eich to an extension, as it should be.  Once done, they will concentrate on Samson and Kane.

 

The Oil focused on whats his name first, right?  I wonder if the fans are all bent out of shape that Leon wasn't signed at the same time as that other guy?


Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 11 July 2017 - 10:32 AM.


#55 pi2000

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:35 AM

Do you believe he'll have a better season than last year?


I think he'll be better, he's still developing. Statistically, depends on his linemates.

Edited by pi2000, 11 July 2017 - 10:35 AM.


#56 WildCard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:36 AM

To me it just means that right now the focus is signing Eich to an extension, as it should be.  Once done, they will concentrate on Samson and Kane.

 

The Oil focused on whats his name first, right?  I wonder if the fans are all bent out of shape that Leon wasn't signed at the same time as that other guy?

But their GM didn't come out and say we won't sign Drasaitl until next year. Also, there's a good chance he has a drop in play, whereas Reinhart likely will not. 


I think he'll be better, he's still developing. Statically, depends on his linemates.

Then there's no point in waiting until next year when he'll be able to demand more money. It's the same principle with Jack; if you believe in them and want them here long term, sign them as early as you can, before it will cost you. The Panthers did this with Ekblad, and the Oilers were smart to do it with McDavid 



#57 pi2000

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:37 AM

But their GM didn't come out and say we won't sign Drasaitl until next year. Also, there's a good chance he has a drop in play, whereas Reinhart likely will not.


Leon is an RFA this summer, Reinhart next summer.

#58 WildCard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:37 AM

Leon is an RFA this summer, Reinhart next summer.

Fair enough. The principle still applies to Samson



#59 pi2000

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:39 AM

But their GM didn't come out and say we won't sign Drasaitl until next year. Also, there's a good chance he has a drop in play, whereas Reinhart likely will not.

Then there's no point in waiting until next year when he'll be able to demand more money. It's the same principle with Jack; if you believe in them and want them here long term, sign them as early as you can, before it will cost you. The Panthers did this with Ekblad, and the Oilers were smart to do it with McDavid


He'll be an RFA, he has 0 leverage. JBOT will offer a fair deal. Risto went through the same process.

#60 3putt

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:39 AM

But their GM didn't come out and say we won't sign Drasaitl until next year. Also, there's a good chance he has a drop in play, whereas Reinhart likely will not. 


Then there's no point in waiting until next year when he'll be able to demand more money. It's the same principle with Jack; if you believe in them and want them here long term, sign them as early as you can, before it will cost you. The Panthers did this with Ekblad, and the Oilers were smart to do it with McDavid 

Sam is also one of his predecessor's "guys."  If what we saw today from CM is an indication of the future, and I'm cautious in that claim, GM Bobblehead might be reluctant to commit long term to a winger if he feels his center of the future is a year or two away.  



#61 WildCard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:40 AM

He'll be an RFA, he has 0 leverage. JBOT will offer a fair deal. Risto went through the same process.

If that was true, then why isn't he waiting to talk to Jack?

 

Sam is also one of his predecessor's "guys."  If what we saw today from CM is an indication of the future, and I'm cautious in that claim, GM Bobblehead might be reluctant to commit long term to a winger if he feels his center of the future is a year or two away.  

Wouldn't surprise me. I'm going to continue to think JBot isn't sold on Reinhart yet



#62 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:44 AM

You don't wait to sign 'franchise' players.  Eich is, Samson, as good as he is, isn't.

 

A #2 overall centre will not not be signed to an extension.  I still say it is most likely to happen late this summer.  No distraction heading into the season for Eich, Sam and Kane.



#63 Thorny

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 10:59 AM

So Reinhart gets a show-me year. Bad decision from Botterill IMO, it looks like he isn't a big Samson fan


Generally players don't sign until they are RFAs. Usually only the very best sign after year two of their ELCs, as far as I can remember.

Botterill is just attempting to mitigate risk. Reinhart may (and should) up his stats this season, but Botterill just wants to gather all the information available to him on Sam before he signs him to his next contract. "Worst" case scenario is Sam completely blows up this year, and then really, that's a good problem to have, if we've got another star on our hands.

The risk that happens is likely much outweighed by the benefits of added knowledge for Botterill. You have to believe Reinhart's camp would be trying to work in "expected increase in production" into negotiations, even if they did take place this summer.

Kane situation should be cleared up by then, as well. Sam will get his deal next summer. Let's get Jack done now.

#64 Tondas

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:03 AM

He'll be an RFA, he has 0 leverage. JBOT will offer a fair deal. Risto went through the same process.

 

Agree.  I think JBOT is smart and has a plan.  I like his approach with both Jack and Sam.



#65 We've

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:21 AM

What this mostly tells me is that Botteril doesnt yet know what Sams position is on this team.

You can't negotiate with a guy when his role is still undetermined. We're not giving a winger a center contract and Sam isnt accepting winger pay if he expects to be a center. This is his season to define his role.

#66 Thorny

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:26 AM

What this mostly tells me is that Botteril doesnt yet know what Sams position is on this team.
You can't negotiate with a guy when his role is still undetermined. We're not giving a winger a center contract and Sam isnt accepting winger pay if he expects to be a center. This is his season to define his role.


Yup.

#67 pi2000

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:37 AM

If that was true, then why isn't he waiting to talk to Jack?

 

Wouldn't surprise me. I'm going to continue to think JBot isn't sold on Reinhart yet

 

See all the replies above :)

 

I'd rather JBOT not be sold on Reinhart than for him to recklessly offer him a massive deal right now.



#68 dudacek

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:57 AM

So Reinhart gets a show-me year. Bad decision from Botterill IMO, it looks like he isn't a big Samson fan


Why are we all assuming that JBot is the one who doesn't want to discuss a deal?
If I'm Reinhart, I'd rather gamble on a big year this coming season, because I'm not going to get big dollars this summer, not as a 45-point winger.

#69 Tondas

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:06 PM

Why are we all assuming that JBot is the one who doesn't want to discuss a deal?
If I'm Reinhart, I'd rather gamble on a big year this coming season, because I'm not going to get big dollars this summer, not as a 45-point winger.

 

Gamble is a good word.  Maybe Sam is more conservative.  All it would take is an injury (nagging or season-ending) for Sam to lose leverage for next year.



#70 pi2000

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:24 PM

Gamble is a good word.  Maybe Sam is more conservative.  All it would take is an injury (nagging or season-ending) for Sam to lose leverage for next year.

 

So you think he's gonna be pissed if he doesn't get to play on Jack's wing and rack up the points in a contract year?   Or does he want to sacrifice some point production to center a third line?



#71 Tondas

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:33 PM

So you think he's gonna be pissed if he doesn't get to play on Jack's wing and rack up the points in a contract year?   Or does he want to sacrifice some point production to center a third line?

 

I saying it might be a smart move to take great money now more than having the chance for fabulous money next year.  Get some financial security now.  If he suffers a career-ender next year, by signing a bridge today, at least he'll have a great financial start to his life.  If he turns into a stud, money will never be a problem for him.  Take a 2 year deal, make 7-8 million, get yourself peace of mind for life.

 

Now everyone get off my lawn.



#72 Thorny

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 12:59 PM

Even if Reinhart got injured in camp and missed the entire season, he'd be in line for a nice contract next offseason. I don't think he can do much to drop his stock (and thus, his next contract) this season, relative to what it is now, aside from if he completely tanked this season, which won't happen.

Makes sense for both parties to wait and get it done next off-season.

#73 Drunkard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:01 PM

I saying it might be a smart move to take great money now more than having the chance for fabulous money next year.  Get some financial security now.  If he suffers a career-ender next year, by signing a bridge today, at least he'll have a great financial start to his life.  If he turns into a stud, money will never be a problem for him.  Take a 2 year deal, make 7-8 million, get yourself peace of mind for life.

 

Now everyone get off my lawn.

 

I don't think he needs to worry too much about that. He's already earned/guaranteed close to $3 million just from his ELC, not even counting the added incentives, plus half his family has played professionally and I'd assume are wealthy (at least by regular people standards). I don't think he's worried that some freak injury is going to leave him panhandling with a cup in his hand.

 

People seem to think they can lowball these guys and they'll bend to team friendly deals and it's not likely to happen. Winning teams that are challenging for the Cup can sometimes get away with lowballing their blue chip prospects on short term deals with the promise of playoff runs and the chance to win. We haven't made the playoffs in half a decade. Trying to make the case that he should take less to avoid risk and because Murray made the mistake of signing the aging Matt Moulson to a 5 year deal isn't a compelling reason for him to short change himself.



#74 MattPie

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:41 PM

I don't think he needs to worry too much about that. He's already earned/guaranteed close to $3 million just from his ELC, not even counting the added incentives, plus half his family has played professionally and I'd assume are wealthy (at least by regular people standards). I don't think he's worried that some freak injury is going to leave him panhandling with a cup in his hand.

 

People seem to think they can lowball these guys and they'll bend to team friendly deals and it's not likely to happen. Winning teams that are challenging for the Cup can sometimes get away with lowballing their blue chip prospects on short term deals with the promise of playoff runs and the chance to win. We haven't made the playoffs in half a decade. Trying to make the case that he should take less to avoid risk and because Murray made the mistake of signing the aging Matt Moulson to a 5 year deal isn't a compelling reason for him to short change himself.

 

$3M is nice money, but he'd still have to work or live lower-middle class if he tried to ride out the rest of his life on that $3M. $3M / 70 years == $42K / yr. Sure there's investing and whatnot, but inflation means he needs another contract to be truly set. Weird world of only getting paid for a short period of your life.



#75 Drunkard

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 01:47 PM

$3M is nice money, but he'd still have to work or live lower-middle class if he tried to ride out the rest of his life on that $3M. $3M / 70 years == $42K / yr. Sure there's investing and whatnot, but inflation means he needs another contract to be truly set. Weird world of only getting paid for a short period of your life.

 

And he's all but guaranteed to get a good second contract no matter what. He could tear his ACL during the first practice, miss every game, and he'll still be in line for a significant pay raise over his ELC. He has talent, potential, and pedigree. Short of dying or getting his arms, legs, hands, or feet chopped off he's not going to have to worry about settling for a lowball offer. All it takes is his agent to get one damn team to float an offer sheet.


Edited by Drunkard, 11 July 2017 - 01:49 PM.


#76 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 02:35 PM

What this mostly tells me is that Botteril doesnt yet know what Sams position is on this team.

You can't negotiate with a guy when his role is still undetermined. We're not giving a winger a center contract and Sam isnt accepting winger pay if he expects to be a center. This is his season to define his role.

This makes sense. 



#77 Doohickie

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 06:36 PM

From WGR online:
 

 

We have him under contract for another year and we’ll see how things play out and go from there.”

 

Of course, Eichel is a different story according to the GM, “I’ve been through some of those discussions before when we did Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin, you’re excited to get an elite player under contract.”

 

Sounds like a solid vote of no-confidence/on the trading block.

 

Or alternately, trying to light a fire under him.


Edited by Doohickie, 11 July 2017 - 06:40 PM.


#78 We've

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 06:55 PM

From WGR online:


Sounds like a solid vote of no-confidence/on the trading block.

Or alternately, trying to light a fire under him.


And that is the right move IMO.

#79 Thorny

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:20 PM

From WGR online:
 

 
Sounds like a solid vote of no-confidence/on the trading block.
 
Or alternately, trying to light a fire under him.


I certainly wouldn't want these to be the case.

The "we have him under contract for another year" phrasing is troubling.

#80 Taro T

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:26 PM

From WGR online:
 

 
Sounds like a solid vote of no-confidence/on the trading block.
 
Or alternately, trying to light a fire under him.

Right now, Reinhart almost certainly expects himself to play well enough to earn more money w/ another season under his belt.

Can't see Botteril offering him today what he'd want. Waaaay too much uncertainty. Is he the 1st line RW, 2nd line RW, 2nd line C, or 3rd C? Each will bring a much different payout most likely. And, as of today he's either 2RW or 3C. Neither of which gets an Eichel-ish deal. He's probably ~2-3 seasons of seasoning away from stepping into 1R or 2C. Give him the bridge after this season & let him earn an O'Reilly-ish deal after the bridge.

None of which says trading block nor no-confidence IMHO.