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Samson the Reinharted: What do you expect of him?


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#1 ShadowLiger

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:45 AM

Sam is often left in Jack's shadow because Jack's shadow is so all encompassing. How many points can Sam have this year? Will he continue to improve? Is 60 points a good target for him?

 

 



#2 North Buffalo

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:47 AM

Think 60 point should be the minimum goal if used correctly 25g + 35a. Would hope higher.

#3 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

25-45-70.

#4 Thorny

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:11 AM

80GP, 20G, 38A, 58P.

That's first line production at 21.

My prediction is Sam's production is a slow and steady upward trend. A huge jump wouldn't allow him to fly under the radar, and that's what I think he's going to do, throughout his career.

#5 Drunkard

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:19 AM

More important than point totals I want to see him get some serious time at center. Give him a good winger like Kane and his spot centering the third line. If everything goes right, I could see him getting 25/35/60 but I'd rather see him score 45 points at center than 60 points on Eichel's wing.



#6 PotentPowerPlay22

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:41 AM

I hope for much more from Sam. However, I am skeptical he will ever achieve his potential. I don't see the fire or ambition necessary to be a great one. I see another Tim Connolly. 



#7 pi2000

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:55 AM

20-25-45 -12



#8 That Aud Smell

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:05 PM

More pictures of him at weddings, with Eichel as his +1.

 

Attached File  samson1.PNG   759.48KB   42 downloads



#9 Thorny

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:06 PM

More pictures of him at weddings, with Eichel as his +1.
 
attachicon.gifsamson1.PNG


That's awesome.

#10 mustacheofgod

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:13 PM

I expect to see growth in all aspects of his game, same with Eichel. They're still so young and each year they're only going to fill out their bodies and have more experience playing at the highest level.

 

If he stays healthy he'll put up 60+ points.

 

I'm hoping HCPH abadons HCDDBs insane philosophy of having "line-pairs" and finds out who works well with who and lets them develop chemistry.



#11 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:25 PM

More pictures of him at weddings, with Eichel as his +1.

samson1.PNG


This is what I like to see. These two are our new core long term. Which is why Samson trade theories annoy me to no end. It's awesome seeing these guys being buds.

#12 SwampD

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:33 PM

23-37-60

#13 ShadowLiger

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:44 PM

More pictures of him at weddings, with Eichel as his +1.

 

attachicon.gifsamson1.PNG

my god jack's legs are rippppped



#14 d4rksabre

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:54 PM

my god jack's legs are rippppped

Dude stole the jorts out of my dresser. 



#15 3putt

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:57 PM

Dude stole the jorts out of my dresser. 

And Josie is very happy.



#16 ShadowLiger

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:39 PM

Kris Baker likes the idea of Reinhart with Kane and I tend to agree. Give them 20 games together and see what actually happens. 



#17 inkman

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:39 PM

my god jack's legs are rippppped


Psssshhht

#18 French Collection

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

Samson is my favourite Sabres player and I hope he gets to play centre. He may match up well with Kane because Sam doesn't seem to be the puck carrier but gets into the right spots and dishes to the open man.
I think the majority of his points would come from being on the #1 PP unit.

23+44=67 pts.

#19 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 04:48 PM

Psssshhht

 

He did say legs ...  :flirt:

 

You're still our one and only calvman.



#20 Taro T

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:03 PM

If he's on Eichel's wing 23-38-61.

3rd C 21-31-52.

The 52 will likely be more valuable. ;)

#21 GoPuckYourself

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:14 PM

What's funny is some people think he should be centering a magical 3rd line and somehow come away with 60-70 points, Who will be his wingers? Pominville? Deslaurier? If he's a 3rd line C we barely have enough good wingers for Eichel and O'Reilly to feed and we expect to put Reinhart on the 3rd line? 



#22 Murray's Rats

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 05:59 PM

I think Sam can score 25g-45a 70 points either on the wing or as a C.

I hold out hope he gets a shot at centering his own line this year. I think he would thrive in that role.

#23 dudacek

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:03 PM

What's funny is some people think he should be centering a magical 3rd line and somehow come away with 60-70 points, Who will be his wingers? Pominville? Deslaurier? If he's a 3rd line C we barely have enough good wingers for Eichel and O'Reilly to feed and we expect to put Reinhart on the 3rd line?


What's funny is how people still think that lines have to work in a rigid hierarchy from best to worst, that those lines don't change from game to game or throughout a game, or how many points are piled up on the power play.

#24 Taro T

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 07:09 PM

What's funny is how people still think that lines have to work in a rigid hierarchy from best to worst, that those lines don't change from game to game or throughout a game, or how many points are piled up on the power play.


Well, in fairness, if he's slotted in on the ppg player's wing & gets to play w/ him on the top pp unit there is a very reasonable probability he'll score more than only getting pp time w/ that guy & taking regular shifts w/ Whiskey's favoritest player of all time instead (or even worse, being the centerpiece of the 2nd pp unit rather than the "garbage man" of the 1st unit).

#25 dudacek

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:50 PM

I understand we don't have a lot of proven depth on the wing, but there is not reason why, for example, Jack/Pominville, Sam/Evander and KO/ROR can't be the basis of three balanced lines that skate 8-12 minutes of even strength action a game, with Housley juggling things depending on need

#26 GoPuckYourself

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 08:51 PM

What's funny is how people still think that lines have to work in a rigid hierarchy from best to worst, that those lines don't change from game to game or throughout a game, or how many points are piled up on the power play.

 

So you want Eichel to be feeding Deslaurier while Reinhart gets Kane? PP, PK that is all different I'm talking top 6 should be all your top players on those lines and only the top 6 should be interchangeable.

 

We have a hard time with top 6 let alone a 3rd line with Reinhart, I'd rather see Eichel feeding Sam the puck and vice versa then some bum like Pouliet force feeding Eichel or Reinhart and vice versa.


Edited by GoPuckYourself, 07 July 2017 - 08:54 PM.


#27 We've

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 09:40 PM

I understand we don't have a lot of proven depth on the wing, but there is not reason why, for example, Jack/Pominville, Sam/Evander and KO/ROR can't be the basis of three balanced lines that skate 8-12 minutes of even strength action a game, with Housley juggling things depending on need

 

I'm not of the belief that you can have a center-wing combo and simply fill in for the other wing, so I don't believe that we have enough depth at wing to get away with Sam at center and have enough talent on the wing for him to be effective,  I think that works when you have talents like Crosby and Malkin at center.  I don't think it works with centers several notches below that.



#28 dudacek

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:31 PM

What we need is for Nylander or Baptiste or Bailey or even Girgensons to emerge as a legit top six winger.
I'd like to give them the opportunity.

Edited by dudacek, 07 July 2017 - 10:46 PM.


#29 Taro T

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:32 PM

I understand we don't have a lot of proven depth on the wing, but there is not reason why, for example, Jack/Pominville, Sam/Evander and KO/ROR can't be the basis of three balanced lines that skate 8-12 minutes of even strength action a game, with Housley juggling things depending on need

So, what are you giving the best offensive C besides a 3rd line RW? Does he get the proven 3rd line LW (Pouliot) or one of the kids? Does he at least get the best of the kids, or does Sam get him to keep the lines "balanced?" And you're giving Eichel and O'Reilly 12 minutes 5v5 each max?

If Pominville is the best option for Eichel, this team probably is in trouble. This team really needs 1 more good forward minimum. It could come from the kids, & there is help on the horizon, but right now the only way they have two certain top 6 RWs is playing Reinhart there.

The LW can be a tire fire, but having both wings being trouble except for a possibly shelved Okposo is problematic.

In a year, when either Nylander is ready or another reasonable body has been traded for (or better yet, both) expecting Reinhart's production to not drop appreciably centering his own line is a reasonable expectation. (I'd still expect it to be lower than him playing w/ Jack or Ryan, but it'd be close & having the scoring spread over 3 lines would probably net out positively for the Sabres.) Just don't see it as being realistic w/ the supporting cast currently available.

And getting back to the original point, how do you figure he scores as much playing w/ Kane and ??? than he would w/ Eichel & ??? or O'Reilly & Okposo (even though 1 wing would have to be off-wing on that line)?

#30 dudacek

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:01 PM

People think Jack is worth $9-10 million a year but he still needs wings to prop him up?
O'Reilly is a legit first-line centre. He makes players around him better.
Sam can make players better too.

Three good centres is the strength of the team. Embrace it.

#31 Taro T

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:05 PM

People think Jack is worth $9-10 million a year but he still needs wings to prop him up?
O'Reilly is a legit first-line centre. He makes players around him better.
Sam can make players better too.
Three good centres is the strength of the team. Embrace it.


Again, how do you propose Reinhart scores as many points playing on his own line as he does playing w/ Eichel?

Why are you so afraid to answer that question?

#32 dudacek

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:27 PM

Again, how do you propose Reinhart scores as many points playing on his own line as he does playing w/ Eichel?
Why are you so afraid to answer that question?

Afraid? It seemed entirely rhetorical.

But OK, he gets easier matchups as the "third line" guy and piles up a lot more assists being the hub of his line, as opposed to the sidekick. He gets to take full advantage of his elite distribution skills, getting the puck to guys like Kane, Okposo, Baptiste when and where they need it to take full advantage, not to mention the trailers that will be finding lanes thanks to Housley's attacking defence.

He'll pile up points because he will be placed in a role that will take full advantage of his God-given skills that have been wasted by a coach that was too myopic to see what he had.

There will be no change in the amount of PP points he gets and I'm sure he will get more time with Eichel late in games and down a goal.
It least that's what I thought was the plan when we drafted a first-line centre with the second-overall pick.

Edited by dudacek, 07 July 2017 - 11:33 PM.


#33 Taro T

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:31 PM

Afraid? It seemed entirely rhetorical.
But OK, he gets easier matchups as the "third line" guy and piles up a lot more assists being the hub of his line, as opposed to the sidekick, and gets to take full advantage of his elite distribution skills, getting the puck to Kane, Okposo, Baptiste when and where they need it to take full advantage, not to mention the trailers that will be finding lines fthanks to Housley's attacking defence.
He'll pile up points because he will be placed in a role that will take full advantage of his God-given skills that have been wasted by a coach that was too myopic to see what he had.


Kane's getting moved back to Housley's D slot? Oh, my. :P

#34 dudacek

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:34 PM

Kane's getting moved back to Housley's D slot? Oh, my. :P


I do not understand this post.

#35 FuhrFury

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 01:02 AM

This season, I expect Reinhart to play RW on Jack's line and finish with about 60 points (25 goals + 35 assists).

 

In the long term, I expect him to average 25 goals + 45 assists as the center for the second scoring line. And for those who are wondering, by long-term I mean as early as the 2018-19 season with some speculative Sabres forward lineup like the following:

 

Mittelstadt - Eichel - Nylander

Kane - Reinhart - Okposo

Bailey - O'Reilly - Baptiste

Girgensons - Larsson - Fasching

(Davidsson and Asplund still in Rochester, Pouliot and Moulson and Pominville somewhere else)

 

Contrary to many out there, I actually feel that Reinhart is developing nicely. Maybe our expectations for talented young players have been warped from the instant mega-successes of Connor McDavid and Auston Matthews? Sam is barely old enough to buy alcohol, and he has already put together two consecutive pro seasons commensurate with the expectations for a genuine top-6 NHL forward (i.e. finishing within the top 150 in the league for points). And he has done so while playing under an incompetent head coach and at a new position that doesn't optimize the particular elite skill that warranted his 2nd overall draft selection - his hockey IQ (that is to say, his positional awareness and passing ability from the center position).



#36 Scottysabres

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 06:38 AM

I'm hopeful for breakout years for both Jack and Sam. But for Sam, 65 points or there abouts and I would be ecstatic.

#37 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:33 AM

I just don't think Sam has much more to offer at the wing than what we've seen. His shot is only okay, he doesn't have the speed to fly down the wing, and he's not going to be barreling into the corners to win a bunch of battles physically. I think this is especially true on Eichel's wing--I want Jack with a skilled plumber who can cover defensively, and a finisher. Sam is neither of those things. As Dudacek has outlined, his skills are his smarts and puck distribution, neither of which gets a ton of work when Eichel is flying around with the puck 75% of the time. If Reinhart simply must remain at the wing, I'd rather see him with O'Reilly.

So you want Eichel to be feeding Deslaurier while Reinhart gets Kane? PP, PK that is all different I'm talking top 6 should be all your top players on those lines and only the top 6 should be interchangeable.

We have a hard time with top 6 let alone a 3rd line with Reinhart, I'd rather see Eichel feeding Sam the puck and vice versa then some bum like Pouliet force feeding Eichel or Reinhart and vice versa.


Strawman alert! Strawman alert!

#38 Taro T

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 10:34 AM

I do not understand this post.


You'd listed 3 forwards he'd be passing to. As you've got Reinhart in at C, one of the others must be a D, right? ;)

#39 French Collection

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:49 AM

I just don't think Sam has much more to offer at the wing than what we've seen. His shot is only okay, he doesn't have the speed to fly down the wing, and he's not going to be barreling into the corners to win a bunch of battles physically. I think this is especially true on Eichel's wing--I want Jack with a skilled plumber who can cover defensively, and a finisher. Sam is neither of those things. As Dudacek has outlined, his skills are his smarts and puck distribution, neither of which gets a ton of work when Eichel is flying around with the puck 75% of the time. If Reinhart simply must remain at the wing, I'd rather see him with O'Reilly.

Strawman alert! Strawman alert!


Sam's skill set will work well finding Wowie's D joining the rush. He needs to be handling the puck more than he does with Jack to do this.

#40 Randall Flagg

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 02:01 PM

Those two. 

I hope for 60 out of Sam, expect above 50, would be disappointed in anything below that.


Liger, are you going to make one of these for all of our players during the offseason?