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2017-18 lineup prediction


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#1 GASabresFan

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:23 PM

Premature? Maybe. But I think it will be interesting to see how opinion evolves as the coach and GM get hired and as we move through the off-season.

Based on our signed players and RFA's we look kind of like this right now.
Ennis ROR KO
Kane Jack Baptiste
Foligno Sam Bailey
Carrier Girgensons Erod
Delo (plus Moulson and Larsson)

McCabe Risto
Guhle ????
???? Bogo
Falk (Gorges)
Nelson Austin

Lehner
Ullmark

Right now I think we'll lose Moulson to expansion in a deal that includes Larsson. Gorges will be sent down or bought out. If I'm the new GM, i'm going young and see what I have. Adding Bailey and Baptiste adds speed plus a phyiscal game. Adding Ennis to ROR creates veteran 1/2 line with 3 guys who can score and pass while a healthy Ennis adds speed. KO and ROR might also give Ennis some physical protection.

The defense needs a LD and a RD. Unless Nelson, RD, learns to play defense in the off-season.

#2 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:31 PM

Shattenkirk is going to be a bidding war, I like Stone from Arizona for RHD.

 

Alzner will be looking for a payday, maybe Washington won't be able to extend him with their cap?



#3 bob_sauve28

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:36 PM

Shattenkirk is going to be a bidding war, I like Stone from Arizona for RHD.
 
Alzner will be looking for a payday, maybe Washington won't be able to extend him with their cap?


Slim pickings in free agency. The new GMs player priority will be finding a defenseman or two probably through trade

#4 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:36 PM

Premature? Maybe. But I think it will be interesting to see how opinion evolves as the coach and GM get hired and as we move through the off-season.

Based on our signed players and RFA's we look kind of like this right now.
Ennis ROR KO
Kane Jack Baptiste
Foligno Sam Bailey
Carrier Girgensons Erod
Delo (plus Moulson and Larsson)

McCabe Risto
Guhle ????
???? Bogo
Falk (Gorges)
Nelson Austin

Lehner
Ullmark

Right now I think we'll lose Moulson to expansion in a deal that includes Larsson. Gorges will be sent down or bought out. If I'm the new GM, i'm going young and see what I have. Adding Bailey and Baptiste adds speed plus a phyiscal game. Adding Ennis to ROR creates veteran 1/2 line with 3 guys who can score and pass while a healthy Ennis adds speed. KO and ROR might also give Ennis some physical protection.

The defense needs a LD and a RD. Unless Nelson, RD, learns to play defense in the off-season.

 

Also I'd like to see Jack make the move to #1 center, Sam #2 center, and ROR on wing. It's bound to happen eventually.



#5 Thorny

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:44 PM

Ennis - O'Reilly - Okposo
Nylander/Acquisition - Eichel - Baptiste
Kane - Reinhart - Bailey
Carrier - Girgensons/Larsson - Fasching

Rodrigues

McCabe - Ristolaien
xxx - xxx
Guhle - Bogosian

Falk, Nelson

Lehner
Ullmark

---

Would like to see Kane with Samson. Agree on needing a LD and RD. At least one, preferrably both, should be of top 4 quality. If Nylander isn't ready to go, I'd like to see them bring in a capable vet for the short term to play on Jack's left, rather than that guy being Foligno.

Odd men out - Moulson, Gionta, Deslauriers, potentially one of Larsson/Girgensons, potentially Foligno, Gorges.

Larsson. Girgensons, and Foligno are the only guys on that list I'd be ok with still being on the opening night roster.

#6 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:54 PM

Carrier > Ennis. Please, no more lineups with Ennis up top, I can't handle it!



#7 Thorny

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:59 PM

Carrier > Ennis. Please, no more lineups with Ennis up top, I can't handle it!


It certainly does seem like if we are adding to the forward ranks, it should be on left wing.

#8 GASabresFan

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:19 PM

It certainly does seem like if we are adding to the forward ranks, it should be on left wing.


Between Nylander, Kane, Ennis, Moulson, Carrier, Delo, and Girgensons we should be able to come up with a couple of LW. If we are going to acquire a forward how about a center who can a friggin faceoff beside ROR?

#9 dudacek

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:44 PM

In my wildest (yet vaguely plausible) dreams?

Okposo ROR Carrier
Fasching Eichel Nylander
Baptiste Reinhart Kane
Gionta Larsson Foligno
Fowler Ristolainen
MCabe Bogosian
Guhle Daley
Falk
Lehner
Ullmark

Bailey, Girgensons and two firsts for Fowler and a first
We roll four lines and cross our fingers Nylander makes a huge leap, pushed by an elite Jack.

Edited by dudacek, 24 April 2017 - 10:45 PM.


#10 jsb

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:45 AM

In my wildest (yet vaguely plausible) dreams?

Okposo ROR Carrier
Fasching Eichel Nylander
Baptiste Reinhart Kane
Gionta Larsson Foligno
Fowler Ristolainen
MCabe Bogosian
Guhle Daley
Falk
Lehner
Ullmark

Bailey, Girgensons and two firsts for Fowler and a first
We roll four lines and cross our fingers Nylander makes a huge leap, pushed by an elite Jack.

I'm not sure that's next years lineup, I'm more for stacking the top 2 lines

ROR-Jack-Baptiste

Kane-Reinhart-Okposo

Foligno-Larsson-Fasching

(who you can't get rid of between Moulson/Ennis) Girgensons-Bailey/Gionta

 

The D has to have 3 guys blown up

???-Risto

Jake-Zach

Guhle-???


Edited by jsb, 25 April 2017 - 07:47 AM.


#11 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:48 AM

We need to bring it down a level with Baptiste. I like him too but he's currently behind Bailey on the call up chart. Putting him as a #1 or #2 rw is very very premature.

#12 dudacek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:00 AM

I'm one of those guys who isn't a fan of designating guys as #1 or #2 etc.

I think this team's game plan should be built around its three excellent centres and it's lineup designed around chemistry, balance and the ability to give one of those centres a significant mismatch.

It's also hope we will see our new coach give at least two and hopefully more of our young wingers a prime time gig at more than nine minutes a game.

Edited by dudacek, 25 April 2017 - 09:00 AM.


#13 Doohickie

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:23 AM

Right now I think we'll lose Moulson to expansion in a deal that includes Larsson. Gorges will be sent down or bought out. If I'm the new GM, i'm going young and see what I have. Adding Bailey and Baptiste adds speed plus a phyiscal game. Adding Ennis to ROR creates veteran 1/2 line with 3 guys who can score and pass while a healthy Ennis adds speed. KO and ROR might also give Ennis some physical protection.

The defense needs a LD and a RD. Unless Nelson, RD, learns to play defense in the off-season.

 

While Ennis adds speed.  Heh.

 

I hope he is truly healthy but I'm not depending on "speed" to the degree he had earlier in his career.  I hope he gets it back, but I'm not counting on it.


Edited by Doohickie, 25 April 2017 - 09:23 AM.


#14 nfreeman

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:38 AM

How 'bout:

 

Ennis-ROR-Okposo
Kane-Eichel-Rodrigues
Nylander-Reinhart-Baptiste/Fasching
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

 

extra:  Carrier, Baptiste/Fasching

 

Fowler/other-Risto
McCabe-Bogo
Guhle-Falk/Austin/Fedun

 

extra:  Falk/Austin/Fedun

 

Lehner
Ullmark

 

Assumptions (some of which are longshots):

 

- Sabres pull off dudacek's proposed trade for Fowler or other premium defenseman

 

- Ennis continues his late-season improvement and makes it all the way back

 

- Sabres bribe Vegas into taking Moulson

 

- Gorges in Rochester/bought out

 

- New coach revives Bogo

 

- New coach realizes that Reino is a center

 

- Nylander makes the leap

 

- Guhle makes the leap

 

- KO's health is OK



#15 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:48 AM

          CF%    GF%    xGF%   SCF%

Carrier   50.55  48.73  52.35  55.57

Ennis     48.46  39.51  47.29  46.82

 

Can we, pretty please with a cherry on top, stop penciling in Ennis on the top line and treating Carrier like some also-ran AHL bum?



#16 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:00 AM

CF% GF% xGF% SCF%
Carrier 50.55 48.73 52.35 55.57
Ennis 48.46 39.51 47.29 46.82

Can we, pretty please with a cherry on top, stop penciling in Ennis on the top line and treating Carrier like some also-ran AHL bum?


Agreed but im really curious to see how Carrier will develop next season with more minutes.

#17 GASabresFan

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:04 AM

          CF%    GF%    xGF%   SCF%
Carrier   50.55  48.73  52.35  55.57
Ennis     48.46  39.51  47.29  46.82
 
Can we, pretty please with a cherry on top, stop penciling in Ennis on the top line and treating Carrier like some also-ran AHL bum?


You make a fair point, but do you ever see Carrier as a top 6 LW? I see Carrier as a Foligno replacement and I'm ok with that. I don't think he has the hands to be a top 6 winger for Jack or ROR. On the other hand, we know Ennis at his best can play that role. Admittedly Ennis ceiling maybe significantly lower then once upon a time, but for what we are paying him we have to hold out hope that he will find his game.

#18 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:07 AM

Agreed but im really curious to see how Carrier will develop next season with more minutes.

 

Yea, I have no idea. He might crumble with more ice time. All I'm saying is he deserves a chance a hell of a lot more than Ennis does.

 

 

You make a fair point, but do you ever see Carrier as a top 6 LW? I see Carrier as a Foligno replacement and I'm ok with that. I don't think he has the hands to be a top 6 winger for Jack or ROR. On the other hand, we know Ennis at his best can play that role. Admittedly Ennis ceiling maybe significantly lower then once upon a time, but for what we are paying him we have to hold out hope that he will find his game.

 

Maybe. If we're going with a lineup where we stuff all the talent possible into two lines, then no. But if we're going with a lineup of balanced lines where each one has say two skill players and a role player, I think he definitely has the potential to be the role player in that formula.

 

What we're paying Ennis shouldn't matter. The only thing that should matter is who produces on the ice. And right now, that sure as ###### isn't Tyler Ennis.



#19 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:09 AM

I feel like I'm the only one who noticed Bailey being called up over baptiste repeatedly last year.

Edited by ShadowLiger, 25 April 2017 - 10:11 AM.


#20 nfreeman

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:24 AM

          CF%    GF%    xGF%   SCF%

Carrier   50.55  48.73  52.35  55.57

Ennis     48.46  39.51  47.29  46.82

 

Can we, pretty please with a cherry on top, stop penciling in Ennis on the top line and treating Carrier like some also-ran AHL bum?

 

You make a fair point, but do you ever see Carrier as a top 6 LW? I see Carrier as a Foligno replacement and I'm ok with that. I don't think he has the hands to be a top 6 winger for Jack or ROR. On the other hand, we know Ennis at his best can play that role. Admittedly Ennis ceiling maybe significantly lower then once upon a time, but for what we are paying him we have to hold out hope that he will find his game.

 

GA beat me to it.  Ennis has been under water due to injury for a long time, but he showed quite a bit of life over the last month of the season.  With a full offseason of training, plus a full training camp under a new coach, he could regain 20-25-45 production.  It would also be nice to add his speed to the ROR-KO combo.

 

Carrier, OTOH, has never scored much at any level (not even the Q!).  I agree that Foligno is his ceiling.



#21 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

GA beat me to it. Ennis has been under water due to injury for a long time, but he showed quite a bit of life over the last month of the season. With a full offseason of training, plus a full training camp under a new coach, he could regain 20-25-45 production. It would also be nice to add his speed to the ROR-KO combo.

Carrier, OTOH, has never scored much at any level (not even the Q!). I agree that Foligno is his ceiling.


Avatar bet on Ennis' point total if he's still here?

#22 nfreeman

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:38 AM

Avatar bet on Ennis' point total if he's still here?

 

No thank you, unless it's whether Ennis has more pts than Carrier.



#23 Randall Flagg

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:39 AM

I don't think Foligno has ever improved the performance of any line he's on, but Carrier already does that to every line, from a Des line to the ROR line. Brian Rust wasn't finishing in Pittsburgh until this season, but he had great chemistry with Malkin even before that point. I need to see Carrier get the minutes. He was getting like 8-10 per game this season. Give him more to see what we have. 

 

Assuming Dean Lombardi is at the helm: 
ROR - Eichel - Okposo

Kane - Reinhart - Bailey 

Carrier - Larsson - Justin Williams (signed by GMDL to a 5 year, $6 mil contract hahaha)

Foligno - Girgensons - Baptiste 

 

Markov (4 yrs, $4 mi per) - Ristolainen 

McCabe - Bogosian 

Antipin - Stone 

 

Because GMDL signs old people to bad contracts, right? 

 

But really, here's a prediction or something:

Nylander if ready - Eichel - Baptiste 

Girgensons - ROR - Rodrigues

Carrier - Reinhart - Okposo

Foligno - Larsson - UFA or Bailey or something

 

Fowler/Scandella - Ristolainen

McCabe - Stone?

Russell/Daley/Antipin - Bogosian

 

Kane plus stuff gets us Fowler/Scandella/whatever, some UFAs, IDK. I'd rather match lines once I know who we have coming in haha

 

Ennis, Gorges, Moulson are blasted into outer space if we can't get rid of them. Seriously. Send them to Rochester, scratch them.

 

 If Eichel just can't handle those wingers, I give him ROR and fundamentally change the lines, with Larsson and Girgensons as the centers of lines 3&4. 



#24 Doohickie

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:50 AM

I think if Ennis is going to be on the team, they need to tell him to expand his skillset beyond scoring winger.  Put him on a shutdown line.  He's no longer scoring line material but he still has the quickness to be a disruptor.  He can be our next Legwand, our next Gionta.  Both of those guys were top 6-ers who adapted their game to bring value to their team later in their careers.  I would like to see Ennis do the same.



#25 Sabre fan

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:15 AM

Ennis is too small for a defensive shutdown guy...you need size to go up against other players and hold them up and constantly hit and annoy them like Kardi does so well..Ennis is too nice a player to do those things (gotta be a dirtbag). But, Tyler  hopefully will come alive and be totally rejuvenated by a new coach and a new system that allows him to freewheel.

 

I also do not see us making that big  trade for that big defenceman so I am hoping that a new GM/coach will also a nice gain by Bogo especially. I do wish we could re-sign Kulikov who I still think is far better then we saw and still could be a good addition but I think he's gone-dy. Bet he excels next season on a new team under a new coach



#26 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:29 AM

No thank you, unless it's whether Ennis has more pts than Carrier.


Bawk! Bawk bawk bawk bawk!!!

#27 inkman

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:38 AM

Ennis, Moulson and Gorges need to be expansion drafted, bought out and sent down in whatever order makes sense.

#28 Doohickie

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:48 AM

Ennis is too small for a defensive shutdown guy...

 

Gionta is smaller than Ennis and filled that role this year.



#29 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:50 AM

Gionta is smaller than Ennis and filled that role this year.


Ennis is pathetic defensively. I don't think there's any precedent for a guy going from being as bad as he is to useful in a shutdown role. And halfway (or more) through his career? I'm calling no F'n way on that one.

#30 Huckleberry

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 12:24 PM

I want kane - Samson - Bailey as our 3rd line.   They didn't play much together but I liked what I saw when they did.



#31 Doohickie

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 12:29 PM

Ennis is pathetic defensively. I don't think there's any precedent for a guy going from being as bad as he is to useful in a shutdown role. And halfway (or more) through his career? I'm calling no F'n way on that one.

 

He's got the basic hockey skills to do it, if he focuses on it. 

 

He needs to either get his old quickness back or find another role, or he'll be out of the league by the time he's 30.



#32 dudacek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:27 PM

I feel like I'm the only one who noticed Bailey being called up over baptiste repeatedly last year.

Pegula noticed, watched him play, watched Baptiste play and fired Murray. 😜

Seriously, they are similar level prospects. Wasn't Baptiste called up once and Bailey twice?

Edited by dudacek, 25 April 2017 - 01:27 PM.


#33 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:34 PM

He's got the basic hockey skills to do it, if he focuses on it.

He needs to either get his old quickness back or find another role, or he'll be out of the league by the time he's 30.


I don't believe this is true. I don't think he has the awareness or vision for it.

#34 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:36 PM

Baptiste played 14 games and Bailey 32. I also noted they had the same number of NHL points. It just seems odd that we are penciling Baptiste in higher than Bailey when right now we don't know who will be better. 

 

ROR - Eichel - Ennis

Kane - Reinhart - Okposo

Foligno - Larsson - Baptiste/Bailey

Moulson/Zemgus - Rodriguez - Carrier/Nylander?



#35 dudacek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:41 PM

I don't think Sabrespace is generally pegging Baptiste higher than Bailey.
That's reading way too much in a handful of scattered roster projections.

#36 nfreeman

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:43 PM

Doohickie, you know we love ya, but this is like when Liger predicted that Robyn Regehr was going to become a force on the power play. 



#37 ShadowLiger

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:48 PM

Doohickie, you know we love ya, but this is like when Liger predicted that Robyn Regehr was going to become a force on the power play. 

And that is why I won't predict Baptiste or Bailey as a force on anything next year.  :flirt:



#38 Randall Flagg

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:02 PM

Baptiste played 14 games and Bailey 32. I also noted they had the same number of NHL points. It just seems odd that we are penciling Baptiste in higher than Bailey when right now we don't know who will be better. 

 

ROR - Eichel - Ennis

Kane - Reinhart - Okposo

Foligno - Larsson - Baptiste/Bailey

Moulson/Zemgus - Rodriguez - Carrier/Nylander?

In my view, just because one is with Jack and the other is written two lines below with Sam, that doesn't mean one is higher on the roster depth chart. I'm just looking at possible stylistic fits. I want Carrier with ROR for the same reason, even if Kane is playing "lower in the lineup" because of it



#39 dudacek

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:02 PM

Both Baptiste and Bailey(and Carrier) were more effective then Moulson and Ennis last year.
There is no reason to expect that to change this year.

#40 Doohickie

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:14 PM

Pegula noticed, watched him play, watched Baptiste play and fired Murray.

Seriously, they are similar level prospects. Wasn't Baptiste called up once and Bailey twice?


And as I recall, Baptiste suffered an injury which kept him out of the Sabres lineup.

 

Doohickie, you know we love ya, but this is like when Liger predicted that Robyn Regehr was going to become a force on the power play.


I know you don't love me, but figure a little flattery before the knife goes in might make it hurt less.

 

I see Ennis as useless:  He's a high speed scoring forward who's lost his speed and without it his scoring ability is gone.  I'm just saying that if I were him, I'd be trying to figure out how to make myself useful.

 

I could be wrong and with some off-season rest he'll come back and be the Ennis of old, but I'm not holding my breath.  I think the rest of the hockey world can see that too.  So we're stuck with him for two more years.  We could either buy him out or try to get something useful out of him.  He no longer has flat out speed but he does have maneuverability and quickness; he could dog other players.

 

If I'm a new coach coming in, he's not in my top 6.  So what value does he hold in a bottom six?  (Moulson, incidentally, is same type of problem).  Even if they're "kind of" top 6 players due to smarts/experience/seniority, I don't want them on my top 6 if they're dragging it down; I'd rather let the youth have an opportunity to grow.


Both Baptiste and Bailey(and Carrier) were more effective then Moulson and Ennis last year.
There is no reason to expect that to change this year.

 

Yes.  This.


Edited by Doohickie, 25 April 2017 - 02:13 PM.