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Should GMTM Keep His Job?


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#1 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 12:45 PM.


#2 MattPie

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:48 PM

Maybe. I don't think the D is as bad as HHDCRGDDB's system makes them look. The roster for the system is hopelessly flawed; I'm not ready to hang GMTM until I see these players on a system that works to their strengths.

 

If there's not a new coach by May 1st, and GMTM has a say in it, I'm ready to fire everyone.



#3 Randall Flagg

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:48 PM

For me, this summer is his last remaining rope. 



#4 Robviously

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:50 PM

For me, this summer is his last remaining rope. 

No, but like Flagg says, he will get another chance this summer and the expansion draft should give him an opportunity to fix things.



#5 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:51 PM

Not unless he fires Byslma



#6 Drunkard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:58 PM

I'd need more information to vote either way. I've been speculating for a while now that DB was actually Pegula's pick so I would find it difficult to be ok with firing TM if that's the case. From my understanding the system in Rochester is designed to mimic the system in Buffalo as well so if Pegula did make the decision to hire DB then it's tough to pin Rochester's trouble on Murray either. So for now, I'd vote to keep him based on my assumption.

 

Either way, I hope DB gets canned and TM gets to pick the next coach so TM can sink or swim based on the next hire. Unfortunately the only way to be sure the next coach is actually TM's would be for the coach to be a Satanist, Pagan, or Atheist with nothing impressive on his resume except hockey related things.  



#7 PASabreFan

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:13 PM

Is there a Mormon out there who starred on his high school's rifle team? Tough one for TP.

 

Interesting point about firing Nolan. It's hard to hold that against Murray in any way, except that he did admit that he didn't talk to Nolan and communication had to be better with Dan.

 

I'd have no problem with Murray getting the boot as well, as long as there's a sane succession plan that doesn't involve the Pegulas, Russ and lots of red wine and prayer.



#8 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

 

1. The roster is not hopelessly flawed. This should be about the defensemen he HASN'T brought in yet. Because Franson wasn't signed to be a top 3 solution, and the trade for Bogosian wasn't about Bogosian, it was about Kane. Myers wouldn't be any better on this team than Bogosian. There is nothing wrong with the forwards on this team. After two months into the season of being dead last in scoring, this team has moved to 23rd and on pace to score more than last year. This is considering the poor transition game from the defense and complete lack of possession time. I'm pretty sure the Sabres are near the top 1/3 in scoring since New Years.

 

2. Refer to #1

 

3. Legwand? You really want to criticize Murray because of Legwand? The team had no cap issues, and he played the role he was brought in to play. McNabb? McNabb has been a healthy scratch several times this season, and is usually #7 when their defense is healthy. He would be below Bogosian on the depth chart on this team. This is a non-issue. None of the draft picks that went to the Kings in that trade have even made it to the NHL. So far he won this trade, and that's without seeing what Fasching can do. And you certainly can't grade a trade when the other player coming back has had a messed up back the entire season. We've been down this road before, you don't know anything about Kulikov. If he didn't get injured, this was a fair trade. 

 

4. His inability to inspire a team? Really? He is a GM.......... he is not a coach. If there is any criticism to be thrown at Murray it's the hiring of Goober because it's HIS job to inspire the team. His inability to recruit free agents? That's not his fault. It's Buffalo........... I wouldn't go there either if I had more than one option. Hmmmmm................... Dallas or Buffalo............. Hmmmmmmmm............... New York City or Buffalo.............. Hmmmmm............

 

5. Lehner is SIXTH in the league in save percentage behind what you call one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you seriously expect any better? Miller was routinely well below sixth each season in save percentage yet this place thought he was a god. If you could tell any GM they could have a young, fiery goaltender in the top 1/5 in save percentage for a 1st round pick, 4/5 of the league would take it in a heartbeat. If he has serious flaws, his .921 save percentage says otherwise. 

 

6. THIS is the main problem. You finally got one right.  ;)

 

Replace the coach, work on defensive depth, concentrate on signing Kane, and if you can get another top 3 defenseman without giving up the farm............... do it. Nothing major needs to be done. This team sucks and it's all on Goober's shoulders. Almost half this team moving forward is under 24 years old. 



#9 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

Agreed on all accounts JJ

 

Though I will trade Kane ;)



#10 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:33 PM

Minus gross negligence or an unworkably poisonous atmosphere, it would be counterproductive to fire a guy without giving him a chance to finish what he started. IMO, for a GM, that usually should be five drafts.

So far, Murray seems to acquired an excellent crop of young forwards, done alright in goal, struggled rebuilding the defence and failed on his first coach. He hasn't backed us into any corners with his cap management (yet) and he has a lot of bodies in the pipeline.

I still need time to see how those kids develop and how he balances Kane, Eichel and Reinhart's new deals with the bad contracts of Moulson, Bogosian and Ennis. And I will be watching closely to see how he improves the defence and the coaching situations in the offseason.

So, to answer the question: yes, for now, but what happens next year will be very telling. If we look like we have the past few weeks 12 months from now, he might not get that fifth draft.

#11 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:36 PM

The prospects he's drafted have been pretty great so far, no? Aren't Pu and Estephan killing it? And they were like 6th round draft picks



#12 North Buffalo

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:39 PM

1 more year if and only if DD is fired and based on acquisitions either drafted, signed or traded for this summer plus losing some dead weight, Moulson, Kuli to start Gorges and or Franson.

#13 Murray's Rats

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:47 PM

Yes

#14 Jacque Richard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:17 PM

Get rid of him too. We're worse off now than I expected

#15 Eleven

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:23 PM

1. The roster is not hopelessly flawed. This should be about the defensemen he HASN'T brought in yet. Because Franson wasn't signed to be a top 3 solution, and the trade for Bogosian wasn't about Bogosian, it was about Kane. Myers wouldn't be any better on this team than Bogosian. There is nothing wrong with the forwards on this team. After two months into the season of being dead last in scoring, this team has moved to 23rd and on pace to score more than last year. This is considering the poor transition game from the defense and complete lack of possession time. I'm pretty sure the Sabres are near the top 1/3 in scoring since New Years.

 

2. Refer to #1

 

3. Legwand? You really want to criticize Murray because of Legwand? The team had no cap issues, and he played the role he was brought in to play. McNabb? McNabb has been a healthy scratch several times this season, and is usually #7 when their defense is healthy. He would be below Bogosian on the depth chart on this team. This is a non-issue. None of the draft picks that went to the Kings in that trade have even made it to the NHL. So far he won this trade, and that's without seeing what Fasching can do. And you certainly can't grade a trade when the other player coming back has had a messed up back the entire season. We've been down this road before, you don't know anything about Kulikov. If he didn't get injured, this was a fair trade. 

 

4. His inability to inspire a team? Really? He is a GM.......... he is not a coach. If there is any criticism to be thrown at Murray it's the hiring of Goober because it's HIS job to inspire the team. His inability to recruit free agents? That's not his fault. It's Buffalo........... I wouldn't go there either if I had more than one option. Hmmmmm................... Dallas or Buffalo............. Hmmmmmmmm............... New York City or Buffalo.............. Hmmmmm............

 

5. Lehner is SIXTH in the league in save percentage behind what you call one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you seriously expect any better? Miller was routinely well below sixth each season in save percentage yet this place thought he was a god. If you could tell any GM they could have a young, fiery goaltender in the top 1/5 in save percentage for a 1st round pick, 4/5 of the league would take it in a heartbeat. If he has serious flaws, his .921 save percentage says otherwise. 

 

6. THIS is the main problem. You finally got one right.  ;)

 

Replace the coach, work on defensive depth, concentrate on signing Kane, and if you can get another top 3 defenseman without giving up the farm............... do it. Nothing major needs to be done. This team sucks and it's all on Goober's shoulders. Almost half this team moving forward is under 24 years old. 

 

Well stated.



#16 Robviously

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:23 PM

The prospects he's drafted have been pretty great so far, no? Aren't Pu and Estephan killing it? And they were like 6th round draft picks

Pu was 3rd round.  Estephan was 6th the year before.  Both guys having great seasons but a little below what Nick Baptiste did the year after he was drafted (for comparison).  

 

Our 2015 and 2016 drafts seem promising.  Our 2014 draft is basically a mess.



#17 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:24 PM

Minus gross negligence or an unworkably poisonous atmosphere, it would be counterproductive to fire a guy without giving him a chance to finish what he started. IMO, for a GM, that usually should be five drafts.

 

Shouldn't that also apply to the coach?  Shouldn't DD have been given a complete roster to coach before we show him the door?

 

7) I forgot to add poor cap management.  There is no way with a team this bad we should be bumping up against the cap.  


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 02:25 PM.


#18 Jacque Richard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:25 PM

By the time they get any good eichel will have played out his contract

#19 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:33 PM

Shouldn't that also apply to the coach?  Shouldn't DD have been given a complete roster to coach before we show him the door?


No. A coach is judged by how well his players perform relative to their talent and experience, whether the players are motivated and engaged, whether his system works, and how he deals with whatever challenges come his way.

In my view Dan has failed on all counts.

Separate but related, a coach never outlasts the GM.

#20 Jacque Richard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:39 PM

Fires disco and puts Terry Murray behind the bench.

Edited by Jacque Richard, 17 March 2017 - 02:39 PM.


#21 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:39 PM

Fires disco and puts Terry Murray behind the bench.

Please no. 



#22 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:41 PM

No. A coach is judged by how well his players perform relative to their talent and experience, whether the players are motivated and engaged, whether his system works, and how he deals with whatever challenges come his way.

In my view Dan has failed on all counts.

Separate but related, a coach never outlasts the GM.

That's true.  A coach rarely outlasts the GM, but it does happen occasionally.  (Dave Tippett outlasted GM Don Maloney)  The GM usually fires the coach to save his own behind.

 

JJ, the acquisition of Legwand wasn't the problem.  Legwand did just fine for us in his limited role.  It was that his acquisition and the cap hit that went with was a symptom of a greater problem and that problem was the over payment for Lehner.  Ottawa received a better draft pick then the market for Lehner plus we gave them $3 mill in cap relief which they desperately wanted.  We essentially received no compensation for taking Legwand, a player they didn't want any longer and certainly not a $3 mill, off their hands.  Get it now?


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 02:46 PM.


#23 PotentPowerPlay22

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:47 PM

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

There are several good points here. 

 

I get the impression GMTM was so anxious to clear out all the Darcy Regier players and draft picks that he made several significant mistakes doing so. He hated Regier so much he has never even spoken his name aloud since he took over as GM.

 

As a whole (to this point), Tim Murray has largely failed. I don't think he will be fired soon, but Bylsma might be used as his scapegoat and get canned.



#24 tom webster

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

After the team has gone 2-8-2 in their last 12 despite GMTM's pep talk and it's becoming a fait accompli that DD is going to be shown the door for this team's lack of improvement in the standings, the next and only question left is should GMTM keep his job as well?

 

This is highly unlikely but there is growing body of evidence that he may not be the man for the job or at the very least, PSE needs to hire someone to mentor him like Tor did for Shanny.  

 

1) Roster is hopelessly flawed.  This is mostly about the 4 lousy D he acquired, and his failure to properly build D depth, but also the abundance of forwards that aren't really helping the team.

2) Poor professional player evaluation.  Look no further then the D.  

3) Mediocre trades and acquisitions.  Poor trades like the McNabb and Pysyk deals headline the list, but with the except of ROR, all the major trades have some questionable aspects like the taking on Legwand and his cap hit in the Lehner deal.  Add the length and size of the Moulson contract.  Right now the Sabres are saddled with 4 terrible contracts to the tune of 20 mil and all were either given or acquired by GMTM despite only 3 years on the job.  Frankly only FA acquisitions Gionta and Okposo are earning their paycheck.

4) Bombastic personality and attitude.  His pep talk failed to inspire the team, especially when you consider he also recently blamed the players for a bad road trip in the media.  They may not be playing hard for DD anymore, but this may also be a response to playing for GMTM.  This might also be hurting his ability to recruit, especially younger players to Buffalo, such as Vesey, Bayreuther, Caggulia, and now Petersen.  With Eichel and Risto to play with you'd think people would be clamoring to come here.

5) Rebuild plan might also be hopelessly flawed.  He told everyone that he could build a contender in 3 years.  His plan to trade assets for youngish vets to move the team into contention faster has clearly failed, mostly because he done a crappy job of acquiring these youngish vets.  Kane, Bogo, Franson, Kuilkov, ROR, Lehner and Okposo were all part of that plan.  None of the defenders have worked and their is reason to worry that Kane might want out and that Lehner, although much improved, has some significant flaws in his game to keep him from being the anchor for the team long-term.  He has now retreated from his earlier statements.  No surprise, but now if he goes toward the traditional rebuild, he has traded away significant assets that should have been in place.  

6) He hired DD ;) .  

 

Once he pushes DD out the door, the 2nd coach he'll have fired, the focus will be solely on him.  He created this mess and now he has no choice but to own it.  If we don't make significant progress under his new coach, there is no one left to blame is there?

1) He never said 3 years. In fact has never put a time limit on.

2) McNabb has been a healthy scratch half the season, no matter how many times you bring up his name all he still can't skate.

3) He's has been through 3 drafts, the first being a historically weak draft. 95% of NHL draft choices take at least two years to make an appearance.

4) None of the defenseman brought in with the exception of Kulikov were part of the long term plan.

5) If the team didn't quit on their coach after break they would be challenging for a playoff spot in spite of missing their two top forwards for the first two months of the season.

6) Finally, hopelessly flawed is just plain ridiculous. They are two defenseman away from being a solid playoff team.


Edited by tom webster, 17 March 2017 - 03:03 PM.


#25 Radar

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

I'd need more information to vote either way. I've been speculating for a while now that DB was actually Pegula's pick so I would find it difficult to be ok with firing TM if that's the case. From my understanding the system in Rochester is designed to mimic the system in Buffalo as well so if Pegula did make the decision to hire DB then it's tough to pin Rochester's trouble on Murray either. So for now, I'd vote to keep him based on my assumption.

Either way, I hope DB gets canned and TM gets to pick the next coach so TM can sink or swim based on the next hire. Unfortunately the only way to be sure the next coach is actually TM's would be for the coach to be a Satanist, Pagan, or Atheist with nothing impressive on his resume except hockey related things.

You know as Christian I'm beginning to be offended by your anti faith comments. I'm not pushing my beliefs on you. I could care less that you're an atheist,pagan or whatever but don't push that agenda then complain about Christians doing it. Seems like belittling Christians is okay but you seem to go off on anyone who mentions the word faith
There are other forums you can use to express you pro or anti religious views.

Edited by Radar, 17 March 2017 - 03:16 PM.


#26 Robviously

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:23 PM

Fires disco and puts Terry Murray behind the bench.

Nooooooooo.



#27 TheCerebral1

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

Nah, I do agree that Bylsma needs to go, but I'm not about Murray being sent out.  He's made far less mistakes than barnfires like Vancouver. 



#28 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

1) He never said 3 years. In fact has never put a time limit on.

2) McNabb has been a healthy scratch half the season, no matter how many times you bring up his name all he still can't skate.

3) He's has been through 3 drafts, the first being a historically weak draft. 95% of NHL draft choices take at least two years to make an appearance.

4) None of the defenseman brought in with the exception of Kulikov were part of the long term plan.

5) If the team didn't quit on their coach after break they would be challenging for a playoff spot in spite of missing their two top forwards for the first two months of the season.

6) Finally, hopelessly flawed is just plain ridiculous. They are two defenseman away from being a solid playoff team.

 Murray said specifically when he was hired.  I do think he said 3 years at one point but can't find the specific quote. Regardless he said this shouldn't take 5 years when he was hired and now he implies it will.

 

Here is what he said then

"This is not going to be a five-year rebuild, not for me anyway. That's not what I want."

"When you tear it down, it doesn't happen overnight," Murray said. "I want to rebuild here properly, which takes time. But it doesn't have to take years."

 

This is what he said 3/1/2017

"… I have a plan. Today was a small, little speed bump to that plan. That's all. We've got lots of picks. We've got lots of good prospects coming and are kids have come up, and some of them have played very well … I'm excited about the direction we're going in. but it takes time. I've given my plan to ownership and my scouting staff. We know our timeline, and it's not an exact timeline. There are things that come up to change it, make it quicker, slow it down, but those are just little things every day."

 

Doesn't sound like the same plan to me.  I started the rebuild thread because I believe and have always believed that the rebuild will take 5 years or longer.  GMTM clearly thought he could do it in less time.  I'm not sure why.  He created the expectations that we should be farther along then we are, and he made the deals to accelerate the rebuild and he should be held responsible when those fail as they did this season.


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 03:26 PM.


#29 Drunkard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:28 PM

You know as Christian I'm beginning to be offended by your anti faith comments. I'm not pushing my beliefs on you. I could care less that you're an atheist,pagan or whatever but don't push that agenda then complain about Christians doing it. Seems like belittling Christians is okay but you seem to go off on anyone who mentions the word faith
There are other forums you can use to express you pro or anti religious views.

 

I'm not belittling religion, at least not in this thread, I have a religion thread for that. I just want the hockey coach to be hired based on his hockey resume and the football coach to be hired based on his football resume. If Terry Pegula is taking people's religious beliefs into account for the hiring process that's just plain stupid, just like it's stupid that he seems to have allowed the Bills coach's wrestling background and religious beliefs to factor into the hiring metrics. I have no real feelings on wrestling whatsoever but I still think it's dumb to factor in McDermott's past wrestling background into his decision making process or the fact that Russ Brandon stacked the deck in favor of Rex Ryan by telling him to bring a bottle of red wine to his interview just so it would make his job of marketing the team easier. The actual religious part isn't where my problem lies. It's in using irrelevant factors into his hiring metrics.


Edited by Drunkard, 17 March 2017 - 03:31 PM.


#30 Jsixspd

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:34 PM

I was looking back to the Sabres, Pre-Pegulas, and the final season was 100 points, 8 games above .500 and a division championship. 

When, realistically, will the Sabres even be back to THAT level?  73 months into Pegulas' era and counting.  

It's easy to forget - while the Sabres had issues, they were a decent team when Terrance Pegula bought them.  

Now?  For all Pegula's lofty talk about the Stanley Cup being the driving 'goal' for the team -  the Sabres now, 7 years later, will be lucky to hit 80 pts this season;  and money is being wasted left and right.  

 


The Pegulas certainly aren't 'all that' as team owners.   The Bills, similarly, have retrograded after 2 years+ of Pegula ownership. 



#31 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:40 PM

It's been 7 years??



#32 Georgia Blizzard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:48 PM

I'm not belittling religion, at least not in this thread, I have a religion thread for that. I just want the hockey coach to be hired based on his hockey resume and the football coach to be hired based on his football resume. If Terry Pegula is taking people's religious beliefs into account for the hiring process that's just plain stupid, just like it's stupid that he seems to have allowed the Bills coach's wrestling background and religious beliefs to factor into the hiring metrics. I have no real feelings on wrestling whatsoever but I still think it's dumb to factor in McDermott's past wrestling background into his decision making process or the fact that Russ Brandon stacked the deck in favor of Rex Ryan by telling him to bring a bottle of red wine to his interview just so it would make his job of marketing the team easier. The actual religious part isn't where my problem lies. It's in using irrelevant factors into his hiring metrics.

 

It's not dumb to factor in a person's values and how they deal with people as part of the hiring process, it would be dumb not to.  Sometimes values are reflected by a person's religious beliefs, sometimes in their non-professional associations, sometimes in the way they interact with their family and friends, in any case, it's a part of every hire any intelligent manager makes, sports is no different.

 

Too often people confuse values with religion because for a lot of people they are one in the same.

 

I don't think the Pegulas are searching for a Christian, they are searching for someone who lives Christian values, it's not a religious test, it's a values test.  Big difference



#33 Radar

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:50 PM

I'm not belittling religion, at least not in this thread, I have a religion thread for that. I just want the hockey coach to be hired based on his hockey resume and the football coach to be hired based on his football resume. If Terry Pegula is taking people's religious beliefs into account for the hiring process that's just plain stupid, just like it's stupid that he seems to have allowed the Bills coach's wrestling background and religious beliefs to factor into the hiring metrics. I have no real feelings on wrestling whatsoever but I still think it's dumb to factor in McDermott's past wrestling background into his decision making process or the fact that Russ Brandon stacked the deck in favor of Rex Ryan by telling him to bring a bottle of red wine to his interview just so it would make his job of marketing the team easier. The actual religious part isn't where my problem lies. It's in using irrelevant factors into his hiring metrics.

Thanks, then your comment about hiring Satanists,pagans etc. had no demeaning purpose in your post. I also want a coach hired on his hockey resume. My problem is that you imply that TP's comments mean he chose the coach not TM and the coaches faith was the reason or a significant reason for Bylsma hiring. I'm not a big supporter of our coach, but I have no reason to think Murray didn't have the say in his hire nor to believe faith was a significant factor.

Edited by Radar, 17 March 2017 - 03:52 PM.


#34 Randall Flagg

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:58 PM

Bylsma had a cup at the time. Faith-based or not, right or wrong, that was going to give him a massive edge over anyone else that remained

#35 Lanny

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

1 more year if and only if DD is fired and based on acquisitions either drafted, signed or traded for this summer plus losing some dead weight, Moulson, Kuli to start Gorges and or Franson.

This is where i'm at, the moves are Murray's to make (coach included), but if there isn't improvement then he's out at seasons end. 



#36 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:08 PM

Yes, but DB shouldn't.



#37 Jsixspd

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:18 PM

It's been 7 years??

Yup.  The 2009-10 season ended early April, 2010.  Just 2, 3 weeks away from being 7 years.  :(



#38 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:19 PM

Minus gross negligence or an unworkably poisonous atmosphere, it would be counterproductive to fire a guy without giving him a chance to finish what he started. IMO, for a GM, that usually should be five drafts.

So far, Murray seems to acquired an excellent crop of young forwards, done alright in goal, struggled rebuilding the defence and failed on his first coach. He hasn't backed us into any corners with his cap management (yet) and he has a lot of bodies in the pipeline.

I still need time to see how those kids develop and how he balances Kane, Eichel and Reinhart's new deals with the bad contracts of Moulson, Bogosian and Ennis. And I will be watching closely to see how he improves the defence and the coaching situations in the offseason.

So, to answer the question: yes, for now, but what happens next year will be very telling. If we look like we have the past few weeks 12 months from now, he might not get that fifth draft.


I'll go one further: I need him to be able to get out from under at least one of our bad contracts. Moulson, Ennis, Bogo, and Gorges, all on the books is a significant hindrance to improving the team (for example, we can't take Stoner off the Ducks' hands to sweeten a trade). And that's before Eichel and Reinhart get big raises.

I don't really believe in the "Murray overpays" meme, but he did have the assets to beat the market to make some deals happen if he had to. He doesn't anymore, so to really improve the roster without robbing Peter to pay Paul, I think he has to demonstrate a shrewdness he has yet to do. Put a little differently, when has he acquired a player underapprreciated by the market? He's paying sticker price, which isn't inherently a problem, but by swinging and missing on every major blue line move, he's in a spot where he needs two, but can probably only afford to pay sticker for one (and even then, of he has to burn an asset to get out from under a bad contract, maybe he can't pay sticker at all).

I think he's done enough good to get a chance to correct it, but he's made his job harder. And, of course, should be bring Bylsma back...BURN THE WITCH!

#39 Saratoga Sabres Fan

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:21 PM

I was looking back to the Sabres, Pre-Pegulas, and the final season was 100 points, 8 games above .500 and a division championship. 

When, realistically, will the Sabres even be back to THAT level?  73 months into Pegulas' era and counting.  

It's easy to forget - while the Sabres had issues, they were a decent team when Terrance Pegula bought them.  

Now?  For all Pegula's lofty talk about the Stanley Cup being the driving 'goal' for the team -  the Sabres now, 7 years later, will be lucky to hit 80 pts this season;  and money is being wasted left and right.  

 


The Pegulas certainly aren't 'all that' as team owners.   The Bills, similarly, have retrograded after 2 years+ of Pegula ownership. 

 

I feel that way too at times but honestly we wern't ever going to go anywhere back then in the playoffs. Our last playoff appearance in 2011 (I believe) philly bullied us all over the ice. They literally camped out right in front of Miller the entire series. Not to mention the Lucic/ no response incident before that etc. Pominville/ Roy/ Vanek/ Myers etc wern't going to get us anywhere but one-and-done.  



#40 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:24 PM

I'll go one further: I need him to be able to get out from under at least one of our bad contracts. Moulson, Ennis, Bogo, and Gorges, all on the books is a significant hindrance to improving the team (for example, we can't take Stoner off the Ducks' hands to sweeten a trade). And that's before Eichel and Reinhart get big raises.

I don't really believe in the "Murray overpays" meme, but he did have the assets to beat the market to make some deals happen if he had to. He doesn't anymore, so to really improve the roster without robbing Peter to pay Paul, I think he has to demonstrate a shrewdness he has yet to do. Put a little differently, when has he acquired a player underapprreciated by the market? He's paying sticker price, which isn't inherently a problem, but by swinging and missing on every major blue line move, he's in a spot where he needs two, but can probably only afford to pay sticker for one (and even then, of he has to burn an asset to get out from under a bad contract, maybe he can't pay sticker at all).

I think he's done enough good to get a chance to correct it, but he's made his job harder. And, of course, should be bring Bylsma back...BURN THE WITCH!

True I think this is very well said, except we aren't Salem.  And maybe that is my biggest issue with GMTM, we get no bang for our $.  We aren't playing like a $73 million roster.  Other then Jack and Sam, who are on ELC's, the only guys playing above their pay grade are McCabe and Lehner.  Ennis, Gorges, Franson, Kulikov, Bogosian, Moulson, and even ROR to a certain extent take out a lot more then they produce.  Considering that GMTM gave or acquired all those contracts, isn't fair to question his ability to run this team long-term?


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 04:31 PM.