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How to Fix the D Both Short and Long-term?


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Poll: Who Should Return

Should Gorges Return (He made 3.9 mill this season)

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Should Kulikov Be Re-Signed? (He made 4.3 mill this season)

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Should Franson Be Re-Signed (He made 3.3 mill this year)

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#121 yse325

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:17 AM

Finally first step is being taken, assuming the Sabres actually sign KHLer Viktor Antipin.

Does this mean we are no longer interested (or they aren't interested in us) In college UFAs Brickley and Bayreuther?

#122 DirtDart

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:36 AM

Personally I think signing Falk and Fedun to shore up defensive depth was a masterstroke. Not top 4 guys, but they've been leaned on heavily and haven't broken.

I think they have been really good. A hell of a lot better than Franson, or Bogo. I know Franson has decent stats this year, but his mistakes are very noticeable.

Edited by DirtDart, 14 March 2017 - 11:36 AM.


#123 Drunkard

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

Finally first step is being taken, assuming the Sabres actually sign KHLer Viktor Antipin.

Does this mean we are no longer interested (or they aren't interested in us) In college UFAs Brickley and Bayreuther?

 

I hope not. We need to stock up on as many young, cheap dmen that we can, especially considering the big raises that are upcoming for Eichel and Reinhart, along with a possible extension for Kane. I'd love to see Rochester stocked up with steady dmen to the extend we can given contract limits. Then it should be that much easier to start moving out the guys who are overpaid for their contributions on the ice.



#124 Doohickie

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 02:17 PM

I think they have been really good. A hell of a lot better than Franson, or Bogo. I know Franson has decent stats this year, but his mistakes are very noticeable.

 

Falk and Fedun made their share of mistakes but I think expectations weren't too high to begin with, and Falk in particular seems to get on his horse and counteract any mistake he makes.  Also, Falk seems to use his size better than Myers ever did.



#125 yse325

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 04:28 PM

I hope not. We need to stock up on as many young, cheap dmen that we can, especially considering the big raises that are upcoming for Eichel and Reinhart, along with a possible extension for Kane. I'd love to see Rochester stocked up with steady dmen to the extend we can given contract limits. Then it should be that much easier to start moving out the guys who are overpaid for their contributions on the ice.

I agree. Baker says we are still in on Bayreuther. I haven't heard anything about Brickley or any other FA D.

EDIT: just saw a story the Brickley is returning to school for another year.

Edited by yse325, 14 March 2017 - 05:04 PM.


#126 dudacek

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 05:05 PM

I agree. Baker says we are still in on Bayreuther. I haven't heard anything about Brickley or any other FA D.


I believe it was TSN that reported Brickley is returning to college next year.

I'm glad we are in on Bayreuther and Antipin. The team needs young mobile defencemen and it's good that we're trying.
Fingers crossed we get lucky — we're due — but after Nelson and Ruhwedel, I refuse to get excited about a late-season free agent signing.

Edited by dudacek, 15 March 2017 - 09:21 AM.


#127 yse325

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:05 AM

Antipin isn't signing here unless he has some NHL guarantees to start the season in the NHL next fall.  So I'm going to assume GMTM has him penned in for at worst the 5.

 

I'm also going to assume Guhle is ready for NHL duty.  Are these the replacements for Kulikov and Franson?  While that could work out, I don't think this is result we are looking for.

 

That said, if he starts with this and then gets one of the many youngish vets we have been talking about, I think that might work.  Certainly is an experienced pro, from a hockey family and having been coached by Mike Keenan for two years he might have a better idea of how to compete in the NHL then most KHL vets.

 

Based on our cap situation, it wouldn't surprise me if Murray also kept Gorges for his last season if he can get rid of Moulson or Ennis to LV.  

 

McCabe Risto

Antipin Vatanen (or DeHaan, Brodin etc..)

Guhle Bogo

Gorges Falk

 

One thing I'd love to see, is for the coaches to tell Bogo to just play D.  No pinching, play phyiscal and be the first D off the line. Etc..  If he just focused on that role he'd be more effective and we could start getting our monies worth from him.  The funny thing, is I think his points would come just by using his shot from the point and getting it on net.


Edited by yse325, 15 March 2017 - 09:09 AM.


#128 Thorny

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:43 PM

I sincerely hope we are able to add a guy like Vatanen or even Brodin, but I think there is a reasonable chance Murray is unwilling or unable to pay the price required to get a guy like that, and Antipin is insurance for such a scenario. Could very well head into next season with:

McCabe - Ristolainen
Antipin - Bogosian
Guhle - Falk

Gorges

#129 Randall Flagg

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:58 PM

I sincerely hope we are able to add a guy like Vatanen or even Brodin, but I think there is a reasonable chance Murray is unwilling or unable to pay the price required to get a guy like that, and Antipin is insurance for such a scenario. Could very well head into next season with:

McCabe - Ristolainen
Antipin - Bogosian
Guhle - Falk

Gorges

:sick:  :sick:  :sick:



#130 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:07 PM

I sincerely hope we are able to add a guy like Vatanen or even Brodin, but I think there is a reasonable chance Murray is unwilling or unable to pay the price required to get a guy like that, and Antipin is insurance for such a scenario. Could very well head into next season with:

McCabe - Ristolainen
Antipin - Bogosian
Guhle - Falk

Gorges


If this comes to pass, I'll have my torch lit and pitchfork sharpened.

#131 Thorny

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:14 PM

If this comes to pass, I'll have my torch lit and pitchfork sharpened.


Oh, me too. But this is what I am preparing myself for, or something very similar.

#132 We've

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:24 PM

Antipin hasn't seen an NHL ice surface yet and we are penciling him in the 2nd pair?

 

Ugh.  We do this every year with these late season FA's.

 

Hope springs eternal, I guess. 



#133 Robviously

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:27 PM

Antipin hasn't seen an NHL ice surface yet and we are penciling him in the 2nd pair?

 

Ugh.  We do this every year with these late season FA's.

 

Hope springs eternal, I guess. 

But Murray is an expert at finding talent (as evidenced by Bogo, Kulikov, etc.).



#134 yse325

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:07 PM

But Murray is an expert at finding talent (as evidenced by Bogo, Kulikov, etc.).

Gorges, Franson.....

I believe (hope) that GMTM is still going after a legit player to help limit Risto's ice time. Brodin, Vatanen, DeHaan etc.... To be satisified with replacing Kulikov and Franson on the cheap with 2 rookies who have almost no NHL experience is foolish and GMTM is no fool. I can think of other adjectives, but decorum prevents me from listing them here.

My hope is the Sabres come to camp with Antipin, Guhle, Bogo, a highend acquisition, Falk and another experienced vet (Quincey, Del Zotto, Seidenberg etc..) even Nelson, Fedun and Bodie and let them battle it out for positions 3-8. I'm keeping 8 in Buffalo, because we'll have the cap space and I never want to see a repeat of what happened this season.

#135 Thorny

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:34 PM

Antipin hasn't seen an NHL ice surface yet and we are penciling him in the 2nd pair?
 
Ugh.  We do this every year with these late season FA's.
 
Hope springs eternal, I guess.


Placing him on the second pair is less a comment on how viable an NHL defenceman he is than it is a comment on how barren our defence corps is. It looks no better substituting Gorges onto the 2nd pair.

#136 yse325

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:14 PM

Placing him on the second pair is less a comment on how viable an NHL defenceman he is than it is a comment on how barren our defence corps is. It looks no better substituting Gorges onto the 2nd pair.


Agreed!

#137 thewookie1

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:58 AM

According to Paul Hamilton, Kulikov is miserable here and seems to be a loner in the locker room.



#138 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

According to Paul Hamilton, Kulikov is miserable here and seems to be a loner in the locker room.

 

I guess he won't be back.  



#139 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:13 AM

According to Paul Hamilton, Kulikov is miserable here and seems to be a loner in the locker room.

Not surprised. It's a shame too, I bet he goes somewhere and becomes a legit 2nd pairing guy



#140 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:16 AM

Not surprised. It's a shame too, I bet he goes somewhere and becomes a legit 2nd pairing guy

In the KHL



#141 d4rksabre

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:26 AM

Not surprised. It's a shame too, I bet he goes somewhere and becomes a legit 2nd pairing guy

Agreed. I think injuries have hurt his tryout here, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he's got a bad attitude and that's why Florida was willing to move him for Pysyk. He might just be one of those guys who doesn't shine until he finds the right team/coach/etc. 



#142 Thorny

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:29 PM

Agreed. I think injuries have hurt his tryout here, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he's got a bad attitude and that's why Florida was willing to move him for Pysyk. He might just be one of those guys who doesn't shine until he finds the right team/coach/etc.


Yup. Whatever we would have guessed the worst case scenario would be with Kulikov this season at the time of the add, this probably surpassed it.

#143 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:50 PM

Agreed. I think injuries have hurt his tryout here, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he's got a bad attitude and that's why Florida was willing to move him for Pysyk. He might just be one of those guys who doesn't shine until he finds the right team/coach/etc. 

 Or he might just be the defensive version of CoHo.  An overpaid young vet who cashed in on one excellent season and has been a diminishing asset ever since.  This same sentence could also apply to Bogo. 



#144 d4rksabre

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

 Or he might just be the defensive version of CoHo.  An overpaid young vet who cashed in on one excellent season and has been a diminishing asset ever since.  This same sentence could also apply to Bogo. 

Good god, please don't compare him to Creamy Hamslime. The only other player I've ever seen come close is Leino. 



#145 Marvelo

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:50 PM

well theres always Slava Voynov.



#146 inkman

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:14 PM

Creamy Hamslime...


Best one yet :lol:

#147 Woods-Racer

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 10:16 PM

well theres always Slava Voynov.

 

How the heck did that get by the filters? 

 

You really need to watch your language young man!

 

 

:nana:



#148 Crusader1969

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:42 PM

Contact the Nashville preds about Ryan Ellis

Currently if preds want to protect all 4 top dmen - subban, josi, ekholm and Ellis. They can only protect 4 forwards. - Johansen, Forsberg, Neal and Arvidsson

Leaving - Fisher, Wilson, Jarnkrok and Smit unprotected.

A lot will depend on where they think there top 2 prospects are Dante Fabbro and Samuel Gerard who are both top 4 potential They also have Carrier and doughertry playing in the AHL

Maybe Sabres can get them to trade Ellis allowing preds to protect 3D and 7F. Rather than 8 skaters.

What would it cost? A young winger not named Nylander and a draft pick? Thoughts?

#149 d4rksabre

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:18 PM

Best one yet :lol:


I vomited in my mouth a bit just writing it.

#150 dudacek

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:20 PM

Ellis/Ekholm are certainly on the list of those worth exploring.

 

Other teams that may be open to offers because of expansion:

Penguins: Maattaa/Schultz/Doumoulin/Pouliot

Ducks: Vatanen/Fowler/Manson/Bieksa

Sharks: Braun, Martin, Dilon, Schlemko

Caps: Orlov, Schmidt, Orpik

Wild: Scandella, Brodin, Dumba

Habs: Benn, Beaulieu, Davidson

Avalanche: Barrie, Weircoch, Zadorov

Rangers: Klein, Holden

Canucks: Gudbranson, Sbisa, Edler

Islanders: Hickey, DeHaan

Jackets: Johnson, Murray

Lightning: Garrison, Coburn, Koekkoek

Jets: Myers Trouba

Panthers: Pysyk, Petrovic

 

Not all of these guys are going to be available and a bunch of them will not be cheap.

But there will be opportunities to trade expansion exempt assets (picks and/or prospects) for someone we'd rather protect than Bogo, if that solves a protection problem for someone else.

 

Using your Preds example, if you are Poile would you rather:

lose Wilson or Jarnkrok and keep Ellis

or lose Ellis and say, Cody MacLeod, keep Wilson and Jarnkrok and add Justin Bailey and a 2nd rounder.

 

Essentially you are trading Ellis and McLeod for Jarnkrok, Bailey a second and the right to skip the expansion draft.

 

You can also say to the Knights: pick Braun and we'll flip you a second for him, or some such prearranged deal.

 

I could see unusual deals like the Ducks saying we'll leave Vatanen exposed for you if you pick Ellis and flip him to us because they think that's better than losing Manson for nothing. McPhee is going to have so many options your head will explode.

 

The Sabres are in a better position than most teams for these creative trades because they only have two defencemen worth protecting and that third slot has value.


Edited by dudacek, 19 March 2017 - 07:38 PM.


#151 Crusader1969

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:45 PM

I was watching a bit of the Jets game today, the commentators made it seem a lock that Trouba is protected. Myers, even with his favourable contract is the big question. I'll assume they expose him and his injury troubles.

I think Garrison is a UFA? Could be wrong

#152 dudacek

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:13 PM

I was watching a bit of the Jets game today, the commentators made it seem a lock that Trouba is protected. Myers, even with his favourable contract is the big question. I'll assume they expose him and his injury troubles.

I think Garrison is a UFA? Could be wrong

 

Garrison has one more year. Like I said, I don't expect all these guys — certainly not guys like Trouba and Fowler — to be exposed. They are just on the list as guys who might be available at the right price because their team has more than three good* defencemen.

 

*For these purposes it means guys who are better than Bogo and significantly better than the guy that their current team will end up losing if they trade him.


Edited by dudacek, 19 March 2017 - 09:33 PM.


#153 WildCard

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:14 PM

Good list dudacek, but, no Ghost, Montour, or Theodore?



#154 dudacek

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:31 PM

Good list dudacek, but, no Ghost, Montour, or Theodore?

 

Flyers will have no trouble protecting Ghost and the other two are exempt from expansion.

Doesn't mean we can't chase them — both teams have great depth in young D and might be open to offers — but there is no special expansion pressure there for their current team to give them up.



#155 WildCard

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:36 PM

Flyers will have no trouble protecting Ghost and the other two are exempt from expansion.

Doesn't mean we can't chase them — both teams have great depth in young D and might be open to offers — but there is no special expansion pressure there for their current team to give them up.

Ah missed that part. Good points



#156 yse325

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:19 AM

Ellis/Ekholm are certainly on the list of those worth exploring.

 

Other teams that may be open to offers because of expansion:

Penguins: Maattaa/Schultz/Doumoulin/Pouliot

Ducks: Vatanen/Fowler/Manson/Bieksa

Sharks: Braun, Martin, Dilon, Schlemko

Caps: Orlov, Schmidt, Orpik

Wild: Scandella, Brodin, Dumba

Habs: Benn, Beaulieu, Davidson

Avalanche: Barrie, Weircoch, Zadorov

Rangers: Klein, Holden

Canucks: Gudbranson, Sbisa, Edler

Islanders: Hickey, DeHaan

Jackets: Johnson, Murray

Lightning: Garrison, Coburn, Koekkoek

Jets: Myers Trouba

Panthers: Pysyk, Petrovic

 

Not all of these guys are going to be available and a bunch of them will not be cheap.

But there will be opportunities to trade expansion exempt assets (picks and/or prospects) for someone we'd rather protect than Bogo, if that solves a protection problem for someone else.

 

 

Thanks for the list.  Who are the righties?  Strange as it may sound, but with McCabe, Guhle, Antipin, Gorges and Falk, we are now LD dominiate.  Risto and Bogo are the righties.  Vatanen is a RD, as is Brodin.  From your list who are the other righties that standout?


Edited by yse325, 20 March 2017 - 12:23 AM.


#157 yse325

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:40 PM

http://www.sportsnet...ion-didnt-work/

 

GMTM says Dmitry Kulikov acquisition didn't work out.  Really?  Says he thought he got a top 3 D.  I really question his judgement.  I'll say this, if he doesn't get a real top 3 D this off-season to spell Risto, we can start the clock on GMTM reign in Buffalo.  If I was a betting man I'd wager that GMTM knows this as well and he will acquire one regardless of cost.  



#158 thewookie1

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:21 AM

http://www.sportsnet...ion-didnt-work/

 

GMTM says Dmitry Kulikov acquisition didn't work out.  Really?  Says he thought he got a top 3 D.  I really question his judgement.  I'll say this, if he doesn't get a real top 3 D this off-season to spell Risto, we can start the clock on GMTM reign in Buffalo.  If I was a betting man I'd wager that GMTM knows this as well and he will acquire one regardless of cost.  

 

That's what worries me.

 

He'd better not trade Reinhart or I'll be absolutely livid



#159 yse325

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:25 AM

That's what worries me.
 
He'd better not trade Reinhart or I'll be absolutely livid


There are 7 players that even GMTM won't be trading away, Lehner, ROR, KO, Risto, McCabe, Jack and last Sam. Everyone else, including Kane is fair game.

#160 North Buffalo

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:46 AM

Oh I think Kane may have made the untradeable list with his goal scoring and finally with knocking out Cindy's chicklets as payback for his swat at OReilly's particulars.   Sorry, and can't believe I am saying this, but I want Kane on this team despite his baggage.