Jump to content


Photo

Let the Fire Bylsma Watch begin


  • Please log in to reply
1470 replies to this topic

#1441 Eleven

Eleven

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,594 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bobcaygeon, Ontario

Posted 24 March 2017 - 09:51 AM

Ann Veal?

 

Her?



#1442 Sabre fan

Sabre fan

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 140 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Coboconk, Ontario

Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:05 AM

I think it is safe to assume that if we had signed babs instead of Blysma, we'd be in the playoffs and the Leafs would not. babs is getting amazing mileage out of his players and has them playing on the same page. Obviously the same can't be said for Blysma...these days in the NHL a good offense is the best defense, which is to say that puck possession is everything these days. The other team cannot score (or even get many shots or chances) if you have the puck more then them. Our puck possession is awful but that is Blysma's system (Lindy's too over in dallas where it ain't working either). They preach the old try and score early then hang on and allow the other team to keep coming at you...in Lerner's defense he faces alot of rubber as our team allows the opponents to keep firing away at will. We desperately need someone who allows a free-flowing offensive style system...we have the players to play that way and I still think we have more talent the n the Leafs but are not using our players properly



#1443 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,527 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Bobcaygeon, Ontario

Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:09 AM

^

 

good stuff



#1444 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:40 AM

I am confident in saying that the Sabres would not be in the playoffs this season no matter who the head coach was.

 

The roster still has too many glaring holes for that.

 

The Leaves, while better coached, have a roster that is better overall, not by much mind you, than the Sabres right now.  Combine that with a better coach and there you go.



#1445 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 10:56 AM

I don't want to just be in the playoffs. Be better than the playoffs.



#1446 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:03 AM

I don't want to just be in the playoffs. Be better than the playoffs.

And there it is, right out of the suffering playbook. The fans bought it.



#1447 mustacheofgod

mustacheofgod

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 870 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NYC

Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:04 AM

Her?

Egg?



#1448 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:21 AM

And there it is, right out of the suffering playbook. The fans bought it.

Ya lost me



#1449 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:46 AM

Ya lost me

In the postseason presser after the shortened 2013 season, Darcy introduced the idea of "suffering" to the fans. The tank was at hand. He explained the philosophy behind it by saying some franchises only do enough to make the playoffs, then hope to catch fire and make a run. "It's not only about making the playoffs" in Buffalo, he said. They wanted to build a dominant team that would be perennial contenders and win Cups. To do that, fans would have to abandon their hopes of "just" making the playoffs, like fans of almost every other franchise get to do, almost every year, for a period of time (to this day, an undetermined period of time). It might have been noble, but it was a catastrophic mistake, as we're seeing. They won the battle and lost the war, along with their soul. And ours. It was an owner throwing up his hands and saying, "Hey, we tried. There's nothing we can do now except suck and hope to have success handed to us. We're not smart enough to do it any other way." I was thinking the unthinkable just last night — with his burning desire to own something that's unownable, to realize his dream of possessing "his" team, Pegula might very well have extinguished the last best hope of winning a Cup, which was OSP and his team of Quinn, DiPofi, Regier and Ruff. It seems laughable, but at least his ownership made sense. He saved the franchise and got us close. More importantly, he didn't know a puck from a meatball and he admitted as much. Screw Terry and screw the return key.



#1450 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:49 AM

In the postseason presser after the shortened 2013 season, Darcy introduced the idea of "suffering" to the fans. The tank was at hand. He explained the philosophy behind it by saying some franchises only do enough to make the playoffs, then hope to catch fire and make a run. "It's not only about making the playoffs" in Buffalo, he said. They wanted to build a dominant team that would be perennial contenders and win Cups. To do that, fans would have to abandon their hopes of "just" making the playoffs, like fans of almost every other franchise get to do, almost every year, for a period of time (to this day, an undetermined period of time). It might have been noble, but it was a catastrophic mistake, as we're seeing. They won the battle and lost the war, along with their soul. And ours. It was an owner throwing up his hands and saying, "Hey, we tried. There's nothing we can do now except suck and hope to have success handed to us. We're not smart enough to do it any other way." I was thinking the unthinkable just last night — with his burning desire to own something that's unownable, to realize his dream of possessing "his" team, Pegula might very well have extinguished the last best hope of winning a Cup, which was OSP and his team of Quinn, DiPofi, Regier and Ruff. It seems laughable, but at least his ownership made sense. He saved the franchise and got us close. More importantly, he didn't know a puck from a meatball and he admitted as much. Screw Terry and screw the return key.


Well this is just garbage



#1451 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:52 AM

Well this is just garbage

So is the result.



#1452 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:00 PM

So is the result.

We have the NHL leader in points over the last 3 months, on the worst possession team in the league, and he's 20 years old. This result has nothing to do with the tank

 

As far as not being smart enough, there have been dozens of articles and studies that have proven tanking is the best way to accumulate high end talent and have high end, sustainable winning. If anything they were finally smart enough to realize what they'd been doing for the last 10 years wasn't working. The only issue I have is why they haven't figured the same thing out with the Bills


Edited by WildCard, 24 March 2017 - 12:01 PM.


#1453 That Aud Smell

That Aud Smell

    That Nostalgic Olfactory Blend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,527 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Bobcaygeon, Ontario

Posted 24 March 2017 - 01:44 PM

As far as not being smart enough, there have been dozens of articles and studies that have proven tanking is the best way to accumulate high end talent and have high end, sustainable winning. If anything they were finally smart enough to realize what they'd been doing for the last 10 years wasn't working. 

 

Word to big bird.



#1454 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:26 PM

We have the NHL leader in points over the last 3 months, on the worst possession team in the league, and he's 20 years old. This result has nothing to do with the tank

 

As far as not being smart enough, there have been dozens of articles and studies that have proven tanking is the best way to accumulate high end talent and have high end, sustainable winning. If anything they were finally smart enough to realize what they'd been doing for the last 10 years wasn't working. The only issue I have is why they haven't figured the same thing out with the Bills

Links?



#1455 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:44 PM

Well this is just garbage

I agree with you, but only in so far to say that the only garbage in PA's awesome post was saying that it (I assume the tank) was certainly not noble.

Worst decision in Sabres history was the recent tank.

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 24 March 2017 - 02:45 PM.


#1456 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:45 PM

I agree with you, but only in so far to say that the only garbage in PA's awesome post was saying that it (I assume the tank) was certainly was not noble.

Worst decision in Sabres history was the recent tank.

Curious to know why you think that


Links?

When I have time later tonight



#1457 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:47 PM

Curious to know why you think that

When I have time later tonight


My feelings on the tank are well known. I am not willing to revisit it.

You can search it if you like.

#1458 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:50 PM

My feelings on the tank are well known. I am not willing to revisit it.

You can search it if you like.

I know how you feel about it, I was just wondering if it was an ethical or roster issue



#1459 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted 24 March 2017 - 03:19 PM

I know how you feel about it, I was just wondering if it was an ethical or roster issue


Strictly ethical.

Read ... unethical.

#1460 WildCard

WildCard

    Gunner's Mate First Class: Philip A$$hole

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,271 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in a Supermarket

Posted 24 March 2017 - 03:23 PM

Strictly ethical.

Read ... unethical.

Well I can't really argue with you there, nor would I want to change your mind in that regard.

 

But, if it was a roster complaint  :flirt:  :beer:



#1461 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted 24 March 2017 - 04:56 PM

I agree with you, but only in so far to say that the only garbage in PA's awesome post was saying that it (I assume the tank) was certainly not noble.

Worst decision in Sabres history was the recent tank.

Not the tank, but one reasoning behind it (we're not interested in just making the playoffs etc. etc.).



#1462 kas23

kas23

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 536 posts

Posted Yesterday, 11:13 AM

I agree with you, but only in so far to say that the only garbage in PA's awesome post was saying that it (I assume the tank) was certainly not noble.

Worst decision in Sabres history was the recent tank.


Serious question: would you not tank and not have Eichel or tank and have Eichel?

#1463 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted Yesterday, 02:13 PM

Serious question: would you not tank and not have Eichel or tank and have Eichel?

 

I hated the tank and was steadfastly against it.

 

So, I would rather not have tanked and would be happy not having Eichel.



#1464 Saratoga Sabres Fan

Saratoga Sabres Fan

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 142 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ballston Lake, NY

Posted Yesterday, 03:19 PM

I agree with you, but only in so far to say that the only garbage in PA's awesome post was saying that it (I assume the tank) was certainly not noble.

Worst decision in Sabres history was the recent tank.

Wrong. The result of the tank are Sam and Jack. Nothing unethical about putting out an inferior product to a fanbase that knows full well what and how a tank rebuild works. Every player on the ice was trying nothing unethical or wrong about it. If you would rather have Pomminstein, Vanek, Miller etc then to each their own. They couldn't get past Boston or Philly in the first round and that was over five years ago.


Edited by Saratoga Sabres Fan, Yesterday, 05:28 PM.


#1465 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted Yesterday, 03:28 PM

Wrong. The result of the tank are Sam and Jack. Nothing unethical about putting out an inferior product to a fanbase that knows full well what and how a tank rebuild works. Every player on the ice was trying nothing unethical or wrong about it. If you would rather have Pomminstein, Vanek, Miller etc then to each their own. They couldn't get past Boston or Philly in the first round and that was over five years ago.

 

A difference of opinion does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

 

I disagree about the ethics of the tank, but I never ever said the pro-tankers were not entitled to their opinion.  There is more than one way to build / rebuild a hockey team.  Was it wrong the way Punch built it back in the early to mid-seventies?

 

Please don't put words in my mouth concerning the failed core of a bygone era.



#1466 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted Yesterday, 03:29 PM

Wrong. The result of the tank are Sam and Jack. Nothing unethical about putting out an inferior product to a fanbase that knows full well what and how a tank rebuild works. Every player on the ice was trying nothing unethical or wrong about it. If you would rather have Pomminstein, Vanek, Miller etc then to each their own. They couldn't get past Boston or Philly in the first round and that was over five years ago.

That's a false choice. It wasn't maintain Status Quo or Tank. There are steps in between. The cupboard was not bare when Terry took over. It would have been a nice spot for a new GM and coach to step into. There might have been a down year or two after that, but no way six years later would we still be bottom-feeders. Imlach had the Sabres from newborns to the finals in five years. Muckler rebuilt on the fly in the mid 90s. Regier got them from down and out to as close to a Cup as this franchise ever got in three or for years. And at no point did it require icing a historically bad team or forcing the fans to root against their team. Eichel's a nice young player, but he wasn't worth it.



#1467 Saratoga Sabres Fan

Saratoga Sabres Fan

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 142 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ballston Lake, NY

Posted Yesterday, 05:21 PM

That's a false choice. It wasn't maintain Status Quo or Tank. There are steps in between. The cupboard was not bare when Terry took over. It would have been a nice spot for a new GM and coach to step into. There might have been a down year or two after that, but no way six years later would we still be bottom-feeders. Imlach had the Sabres from newborns to the finals in five years. Muckler rebuilt on the fly in the mid 90s. Regier got them from down and out to as close to a Cup as this franchise ever got in three or for years. And at no point did it require icing a historically bad team or forcing the fans to root against their team. Eichel's a nice young player, but he wasn't worth it.

I'm really not sure how rebuilding through free agency at the time would have set us up in a better position, long term. If we had less injuries and a better coach, we would have made the playoffs this year. Our core wasn't going to get us anywhere in the playoffs at the time. Reinhart and Eichel were absolutely worth it, imo. 


A difference of opinion does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

 

I disagree about the ethics of the tank, but I never ever said the pro-tankers were not entitled to their opinion.  There is more than one way to build / rebuild a hockey team.  Was it wrong the way Punch built it back in the early to mid-seventies?

 

Please don't put words in my mouth concerning the failed core of a bygone era.

Not putting words in your mouth, which is why I specifically stated "if you would rather". Really don't see any other options back in 2013 and 2014 than tearing it all down and rebuilding. 



#1468 PASabreFan

PASabreFan

    Jack Eichel Construction

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,439 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:South of your border

Posted Yesterday, 05:44 PM

I'm really not sure how rebuilding through free agency at the time would have set us up in a better position, long term. If we had less injuries and a better coach, we would have made the playoffs this year. Our core wasn't going to get us anywhere in the playoffs at the time. Reinhart and Eichel were absolutely worth it, imo.

You had to slip "better coach" in there lol. The injury excuse doesn't really hold up when you look at what they did coming out of the bye. Shoulda been loaded for bear.



#1469 Saratoga Sabres Fan

Saratoga Sabres Fan

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 142 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ballston Lake, NY

Posted Yesterday, 06:04 PM

You had to slip "better coach" in there lol. The injury excuse doesn't really hold up when you look at what they did coming out of the bye. Shoulda been loaded for bear.

I do of course admit that our d is a mess and it needs to be addressed somehow, but I honestly do place a lot of blame on DB. 



#1470 kas23

kas23

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 536 posts

Posted Yesterday, 06:16 PM

I hated the tank and was steadfastly against it.

So, I would rather not have tanked and would be happy not having Eichel.


Interesting. Another question: do you really think we "tanked"? Let's define "tank" as purposely losing. I think we can agree GMTM wanted to purposely lose, but do you think Teddy and the guys actually playing the games actually "tanked"?

#1471 Sabres Fan In NS

Sabres Fan In NS

    I'd rather be in Sarajevo, or Istanbul (not Constantinople)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,663 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted Yesterday, 06:31 PM

Interesting. Another question: do you really think we "tanked"? Let's define "tank" as purposely losing. I think we can agree GMTM wanted to purposely lose, but do you think Teddy and the guys actually playing the games actually "tanked"?

 

Management adopted the policy and took steps to ensure the roster was putrid.

 

Coaches and players never tank,


I'm really not sure how rebuilding through free agency at the time would have set us up in a better position, long term. If we had less injuries and a better coach, we would have made the playoffs this year. Our core wasn't going to get us anywhere in the playoffs at the time. Reinhart and Eichel were absolutely worth it, imo. 


Not putting words in your mouth, which is why I specifically stated "if you would rather". Really don't see any other options back in 2013 and 2014 than tearing it all down and rebuilding. 

 

I accept that, but better wording would have been ... If one would rather ... especially when we were in a one on one conversation and it seemed to be not a generalized statement.