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Let the Fire Bylsma Watch begin


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#1 matter2003

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:18 PM

Historically inept offense with good offensive players.

A putrid system in which it appears Bylsma's game plan is to win every game 1-0.

Inability to figure out how to get his players to stop taking Too Many Men on the Ice penalties.

This team is a dumpster fire.

Bylsma's complete lack of any creativity and stifling of the offense has turned a middle of the road talented team without Eichel into a team that can't score goals and is languishing near the bottom of the league.

He needs to go...how much longer can we put up with this ineptitude??

Edited by matter2003, 25 November 2016 - 10:21 PM.


#2 LGR4GM

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:23 PM

Yes. He can go now

Edited by LGR4GM, 25 November 2016 - 10:24 PM.


#3 Randall Flagg

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:26 PM

I'm not sure what Tim's going to do, and I'm not sure dumping him now is the best move because I don't know that anyone on our staff, or available at the moment, is any better. But Dan is not the guy for this team, and he's hurting them badly, IMO. 

I wonder if that Marlies coach is ready. I want GMTM to identify coaches that are creative and innovative and just need that first opportunity. I want him to make the correct hire. I don't know who it will be, and if he can't do it, he needs to go too. 



#4 d4rksabre

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:26 PM

Quite frankly, I think Murray needs to make some changes to the roster first. But I won't fight about firing Bylsma. He's simply the domino I expect to fall last.

#5 inkman

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:46 PM

I'd be shocked if any happened to DD anytime soon

#6 BRAWNDO

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:50 PM

DD's Job is safe through the offseason at least. 



#7 bob_sauve28

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:56 PM

I like him

#8 ubkev

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 11:10 PM

I like him


Why?

#9 Jacque Richard

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 11:22 PM

The Sabres need to make a playoff one of these years. Sometime firing a coach might light a fire under this group. The fan base is expecting a lot better. Excuses and more excuses. Starting to sound like the other losers the Bills

#10 LGR4GM

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 11:34 PM

Rational Liger checking in, we will need to wait. Nothing will happen anytime soon. They will play this out and see how it goes. Bylsma will be given lots of rope.

#11 yse325

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 06:50 AM

DD isn't going anywhere and how is it his fault that our crappy team can't convert their 10 scoring + scoring chances every night. How is it his fault that ROR can't beat a backup goalie on a breakaway? Or how Girgensons fans on open nets or Kane can't actually get his shot on net?

This mess is GMTM's fault. We have some good players, but no true elite ones other then maybe Jack. Our two best D are our two youngest D, and the vets GMTM acquired to support them stink. He also traded away the developing D in Pysyk, Zadarov and McNabb, two of which have significant roles on their new teams. He also failed to acquire a puck mover or a decent 7th D as injury insurance. (Regier made the same mistake and it was a major factor in our losing the East in 2005.) Our lack of good scoring forward depth has been exposed as GMTM has failed to acquire or develop any finishers at forward. We have lots of 10-20 guys, but no 30-40 guys. The two guys we thought would be those guys, Moulson and Kane, aren't. Moulson doesn't skate well enough to score consistently 5 on 5 and Kane is a physical and mental disaster who can't get his shot on net.

A coach needs good players to win. Joel Quenneville failed other places before getting to Chicago. Scotty Bowman failed here as well. Hell Bill Belicheck, the great coach in NFL history, couldn't win in Cleveland.

I'm not advocating firing Murray either. He still has a couple of years to right the ship, but to do that he must re-think this teams construction. The first step is cleaning out the high paid, un-productive players. Sadly his plan of acquiring 25-28 yr old players to rush the rebuild is failing.

Edited by yse325, 26 November 2016 - 06:51 AM.


#12 zippyfeet

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:38 AM

the suffering shall continue



#13 Drunkard

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:06 AM

DB needs to go. We should poach the highest scoring coach in the AHL and scrap our current system. Most likely it won't happen though because our fearless leader GMTM and his zero ###### given approach will probably just double down on his bad decision to hire the guy.

#14 Eric in Akron

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:35 AM

I don't think it is a roster issue as some here have indicated.  The guys that have been brought in have had really good seasons prior to their Sabres arrival (Kane and Moulson) and some had good years prior to DD (Girgensons and Ennis - although Ennis may be due to his injuries).  These guys can score - heck they are scoring on the power play so they know how to beat a goalie...  5 on 5 is the problem, which means that the players are not creating the right chances and this is partially affected by the system.  How many times are they shooting right at the goalie - into his chest?  Now, how many times are they shooting while the goalie is moving?  They need to start opening space (system) to be able to pass into opportunities and get the goalie moving.  

 

Also, seeing the 4th line out there right after the Reinhart goal made me cringe.  This is all on Dan.  



#15 mjd1001

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

I'd be shocked if any happened to DD anytime soon

I agree.

 

With the injuries, and this being a young team as it is, I would be really really shocked if anything happens to him.  While injuries are part of the game and every team has them, I also would want to evaluate him at the job for at least a 40 game period where most of they key players are suited up.  Having 2 of your top 4 d-men hurts more than most on these forums seem to be saying.

 

Also, the talent on this team isn't quite as good as many think.  Over the past 6-7 years, how many players other than first round picks are making a meaningful contribution to this team?  McCabe is the only one I can think of. This team has virtually ZERO contributing depth that is home grown.  That is partly on Murray, and partly on the previous management.

 

Since Bylsma took over the team last year, the Sabres have the LOWEST shooting percentage in the league. 7.8% over the last year and a quarter....The league average is close to 9 and the top teams are right at (or over 10).  The thing is, I don't blame him for not getting the players in the right scoring positions. When I look at the shot charts of games the Sabres play, the Sabres often have less shots than the opponent, but a greater percentage of their shots come from closer to the net or in front of the net.  That is not coaching...that is players not being able to put the puck in the net.


Edited by mjd1001, 26 November 2016 - 11:01 AM.


#16 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

DD isn't going anywhere and how is it his fault that our crappy team can't convert their 10 scoring + scoring chances every night. How is it his fault that ROR can't beat a backup goalie on a breakaway? Or how Girgensons fans on open nets or Kane can't actually get his shot on net?


It's not his fault they don't convert the chances they get, but I do hold him responsible for the team not generating more chances. The foremost problem with Bylsma's approach is it requires capitalizing on a small set of quality chances, and if shooting goes cold (and it does, for every team), the scoring will be non-existent. The best teams create more chances, and that helps offset natural ebbs and flows in finish.

The bottom line is for all the fault you can find in Murray and the roster, this team is scoring less than the tank teams despite having a better roster. Matt D'Agofreakingstini was skating a regular shift for those teams. And they were better offensively. That's on the coach, full stop.

#17 sodbuster

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:18 AM

It's not his fault they don't convert the chances they get, but I do hold him responsible for the team not generating more chances. The foremost problem with Bylsma's approach is it requires capitalizing on a small set of quality chances, and if shooting goes cold (and it does, for every team), the scoring will be non-existent. The best teams create more chances, and that helps offset natural ebbs and flows in finish.

The bottom line is for all the fault you can find in Murray and the roster, this team is scoring less than the tank teams despite having a better roster. Matt D'Agofreakingstini was skating a regular shift for those teams. And they were better offensively. That's on the coach, full stop.

Exactly. We're really no better than the tank teams at this point. I don't think anybody here is demanding a top ten team this year. It sounds like people are expecting us to be somewhere from 15th to 20th, and I don't think that the low end of that is unreasonable, given the talent remaining on the roster. One thing is for sure though, 26th is unacceptable.

#18 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:30 AM

If DD goes, why is GMTM safe? He put this team together.



#19 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:41 AM

Dan Bylsma will be fine.



#20 LGR4GM

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:02 PM

I agree.

With the injuries, and this being a young team as it is, I would be really really shocked if anything happens to him. While injuries are part of the game and every team has them, I also would want to evaluate him at the job for at least a 40 game period where most of they key players are suited up. Having 2 of your top 4 d-men hurts more than most on these forums seem to be saying.

Also, the talent on this team isn't quite as good as many think. Over the past 6-7 years, how many players other than first round picks are making a meaningful contribution to this team? McCabe is the only one I can think of. This team has virtually ZERO contributing depth that is home grown. That is partly on Murray, and partly on the previous management.

Since Bylsma took over the team last year, the Sabres have the LOWEST shooting percentage in the league. 7.8% over the last year and a quarter....The league average is close to 9 and the top teams are right at (or over 10). The thing is, I don't blame him for not getting the players in the right scoring positions. When I look at the shot charts of games the Sabres play, the Sabres often have less shots than the opponent, but a greater percentage of their shots come from closer to the net or in front of the net. That is not coaching...that is players not being able to put the puck in the net.

How is 2nd round and later players not making an impact on Murray? Do you have any idea how long those players take? 3-5 years before they see nhl ice. Murray shouldn't even be evaluated in this for another season. Cliff Pu seems okay though...

Baptiste, Bailey seem okay btw

Edited by LGR4GM, 26 November 2016 - 12:18 PM.


#21 PASabreFan

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:03 PM

It's not his fault they don't convert the chances they get, but I do hold him responsible for the team not generating more chances. The foremost problem with Bylsma's approach is it requires capitalizing on a small set of quality chances, and if shooting goes cold (and it does, for every team), the scoring will be non-existent. The best teams create more chances, and that helps offset natural ebbs and flows in finish.

The bottom line is for all the fault you can find in Murray and the roster, this team is scoring less than the tank teams despite having a better roster. Matt D'Agofreakingstini was skating a regular shift for those teams. And they were better offensively. That's on the coach, full stop.

Having trouble finding any scoring chance data, official or otherwise. I am guessing the problem is that each team has a slightly diferent way of counting them, and then the data becomes proprietary. I've proposed before that we could crowd-source a Sabres game and come up with chances for and against. Might be fun. Overall, though, it seems to be a huge gap in analytics. I may not be a fan of it (analytics), but I'd certainly be interested in how good teams are at getting more chances than their opponents.


Edited by PASabreFan, 26 November 2016 - 12:04 PM.


#22 K-9

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:23 PM

Whether Bylsma stays or goes, that won't change the fact that we don't have ANY prolific scorers in the lineup. Not one. Christ behind the bench isn't gonna make chicken salad out of this chicken schit. 



#23 Randall Flagg

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:25 PM

Whether Bylsma stays or goes, that won't change the fact that we don't have ANY prolific scorers in the lineup. Not one. Christ behind the bench isn't gonna make chicken salad out of this chicken schit. 

They don't have world class scoring talent, but they hardly have worse-than-tank-level skill in the lineup even with injuries. In another thread I outlined lineups that were either very comparable or obviously worse than ours, and they are ALL scoring at a significantly higher rate than we are at even strength. This isn't a bottom-five roster scoring-talent wise THIS SEASON, let alone all time in franchise and NHL history like they are currently showing.



#24 Jsixspd

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:33 PM

They don't have world class scoring talent, but they hardly have worse-than-tank-level skill in the lineup even with injuries. In another thread I outlined lineups that were either very comparable or obviously worse than ours, and they are ALL scoring at a significantly higher rate than we are at even strength. This isn't a bottom-five roster scoring-talent wise THIS SEASON, let alone all time in franchise and NHL history like they are currently showing.

3rd season of the rebuild SHOULD be better than this, even with Eichel out.   This is just downright awful.

That being said, I think we're in for a LONG wait until Bylsma is dismissed - end of the season at the earliest.  



#25 PASabreFan

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 12:51 PM

3rd season of the rebuild SHOULD be better than this, even with Eichel out.   This is just downright awful.

That being said, I think we're in for a LONG wait until Bylsma is dismissed - end of the season at the earliest.  

I agree with this, and it's probably only fair. Let him have enough rope. I mentioned elsewhere that Pegula would have to fire both DDB and ZFGTM, but now I'm thinking Murray would survive and Bugles Boy would be forced to hire a hockey guy to oversee the whole thing, while Terry meddles with the Bills a little more. How am I doing, Blue?


Edited by PASabreFan, 26 November 2016 - 12:51 PM.


#26 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 02:20 PM

Having trouble finding any scoring chance data, official or otherwise. I am guessing the problem is that each team has a slightly diferent way of counting them, and then the data becomes proprietary. I've proposed before that we could crowd-source a Sabres game and come up with chances for and against. Might be fun. Overall, though, it seems to be a huge gap in analytics. I may not be a fan of it (analytics), but I'd certainly be interested in how good teams are at getting more chances than their opponents.


Corsica actually has a scoring chance metric. Overall percentage we're pretty good at 53.58%, 7th in the league. But that's due almost entirely to our scoring chance prevention, where we're 3rd at 6.53 per game. Problem is we're only generating 7.54 per game, which is 19th. Before you ask, I'm not sure exactly what they count as a scoring chance (which is why I don't regularly cite the data), but a safe bet are things in the whole slot area.

We are shooting a little low as a team, at 5.06% (as opposed to our expected, per Corsica, of 5.97%), but even if we were shooting as expected, it'd still only give us another 6 goals on the season. We simply aren't generating enough chances to score more.

Which brings me full circle to Bylsma: he's using the roster incorrectly. As I think we can all agree, we're not a team with a bunch of high end finishers (our only guy with a realistic expectation of hitting 30 is Jack), so we have to manufacture offense through volume and control. Bylsma is doing the exact opposite of that with his passive forecheck, weak puck support, and neutral zone trapping. Sure we're limiting chances against at an elite level, but we're generating chances at a below average level and when combined with our roster, has resulted in a total dearth of offense.

Backing away from the stats some, looking at our defense, I think it's pretty clear that Risto, McCabe, and Bogosian (lord save my soul) are better at attacking offensively than they are at defending in their own zone. Yet, Bylsma's system has them spending more time playing to their weaknesses than to their strengths. Every game I see a lot of chances to either lead a rush or pinch, but they just choose to sit back instead. If it was only say Gorges doing it, that's one thing, but they all are. That's coaching.

Jack coming back will help, as he can generate on his own outside of the system, and he can finish. But him coming back doesn't fix the underlying systemic problems Bylsma is responsible for. People can point to the injuries all they want, but it was the same last year, and it was the same this year when we were healthy minus Jack. It's how Bylsma wants to play. I've often joked about what Bylsma learned in his year off...well I think he decided that clogging everything up and castrating the generation of chances (by both teams) was the way to go. Though his breakouts and dumping and chasing is basically the same as in Pittsburgh, I think he neutered the forecheck he used there in favor of stifling the competiton (someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have no memory of Pittsburgh playing a 1-2-2 with any regularity...quite the contrary, I remember them giving up a lot of speed rushes through the neutral zone).

Bleh.

#27 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 02:43 PM

Present



#28 PASabreFan

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 02:50 PM

Present

OK, you watch until 20-hundred hours.



#29 qwksndmonster

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:07 PM

I am the sabre in the darkness, I am the watcher on tv, the goal horn that wakes the Chets.

I pledge my life and honor to the Fire Bylsma Watch for this night and all the nights to come.

Edited by qwksndmonster, 26 November 2016 - 03:08 PM.


#30 Doohickie

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 03:49 PM

Why?

 

He's so dreamy.


the suffering shall continue

 

BBS.

 

 

 

 

No, not Because Bylsma Sucks.....

 

 

Because Buffalo Sports.



#31 pi2000

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 04:53 PM

If they get Eichel back and still struggle to score then let the countdown begin.

IMO they'll break out of this scoring funk when he returns to the lineup. Sure, he's one guy, but on this team he's so much better than the 3rd center that he really does make that much difference.

#32 PASabreFan

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 05:23 PM

I am the sabre in the darkness, I am the watcher on tv, the goal horn that wakes the Chets.

I pledge my life and honor to the Fire Bylsma Watch for this night and all the nights to come.

Outstanding. (Had to use the Google.)



#33 inkman

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:19 PM

Why the ###### aren't the player who take 3-5 years to develop ready by year 2. This is the system, coach and GMTM. they need to start a new tank. :rolleyes:

Edited by inkman, 26 November 2016 - 08:20 PM.


#34 WildCard

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:28 PM

Why the ###### aren't the player who take 3-5 years to develop ready by year 2. This is the system, coach and GMTM. they need to start a new tank. :rolleyes:

I don't think this applies at all honestly

#35 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:34 PM

Meanwhile the Leafs are lighting it up. Talent or Babcock? Maybe our talent is one reason Babcock stood us up?

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 26 November 2016 - 08:35 PM.


#36 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 08:38 PM

Meanwhile the Leafs are lighting it up. Talent or Babcock? Maybe our talent is one reason Babcock stood us up?

 

I don't think talent has a single, solitary, thing to do with why Babcock chose the Leafs. 

 

Toronto is an abomination defensively and they're not going to win anything until they clean it up, but in the meantime, man are they fun to watch. They're a bad team, but they're the right kind of bad: entertaining.



#37 PASabreFan

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:53 PM

Why the ###### aren't the player who take 3-5 years to develop ready by year 2. This is the system, coach and GMTM. they need to start a new tank. :rolleyes:

I think Murray would punch you in the face for this post. He said he had no appetite for a five-year rebuild. He's not sitting around waiting for Pu or whoever to lead the Sabres to glory in 2022.



#38 Randall Flagg

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:54 PM

I think Murray would punch you in the face for this post. He said he had no appetite for a five-year rebuild. He's not sitting around waiting for Pu or whoever to lead the Sabres to glory in 2022.

And this is why how we look right now is alarming and disconcerting.

#39 inkman

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:50 PM

I think Murray would punch you in the face for this post. He said he had no appetite for a five-year rebuild. He's not sitting around waiting for Pu or whoever to lead the Sabres to glory in 2022.

He said that. Hence the O'Reilly and Kane trades. Most would argue as to the success of those trades but I commend him none the less.

He traded for Kulikov and signed Okposo. Without injury, that should have been enough to get to the next level with the development of the youngish.

Unfortunately, Eichel, Kane, O'Reilly, Ennis, Kulikov, Bogosian have been injured for much of the season. That's 2/3 of your top six and 1/3 of your defensive core not participating. I'll give them a little leeway.

Edited by inkman, 26 November 2016 - 11:51 PM.


#40 Wyldnwoody44

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 12:04 AM

So it's either Bylsma or injuries.

It's both,

But man we are boring as hell to watch