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Sabres Prospects 2016-17


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#281 nfreeman

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:37 PM

That's true, but every draft is different.  The 2015 draft was completely stacked with great prospects, with a few that are already full-time NHLers in 2016-2017.  And all signs point to the 2017 draft being the opposite.

 

 

This is fair, but I think you'd need to identify a few of these prospects and provide some specifics as to why they'd be superior assets to Lehner if you want to really make this point.



#282 Robviously

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:56 PM

This is fair, but I think you'd need to identify a few of these prospects and provide some specifics as to why they'd be superior assets to Lehner if you want to really make this point.

I named a few in my first post earlier today on this.

 

Aho, Carlo, and Beauvillier are already helping their NHL teams this season and making an impact as 19 year olds.  Larsson and Carlsson are big LHD that can skate and exactly what we're trying to figure out how to trade for seemingly all season.  (Larsson would be in the NHL already except that he's with Anaheim and they're already stacked on defense.)

 

And the key point is that none of this is hindsight.  Everyone knew the 2015 draft was stacked leading up to it.  It would have been a good draft to hold onto some picks and have extra -- especially since those players would be the same age as our franchise player.


Edited by Robviously, 16 March 2017 - 04:56 PM.


#283 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:21 AM

http://www.buffaloho...ready-nhl-duty/

 

FYI: Is Brendan Guhle ready?

 

After reading the article, it seems like he will be given every chance to make the team.  He has nothing left to prove in Jrs and we are desperate for his speed.


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 09:27 AM.


#284 Drunkard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:56 AM

http://www.buffaloho...ready-nhl-duty/

 

FYI: Is Brendan Guhle ready?

 

After reading the article, it seems like he will be given every chance to make the team.  He has nothing left to prove in Jrs and we are desperate for his speed.

 

Not sure if he'll be ready or not but he's about to officially age out of juniors. He turns 20 this summer and will be eligibile to go to Rochester if he doesn't make the Sabres.



#285 Derrico

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:16 AM

http://www.buffaloho...ready-nhl-duty/

 

FYI: Is Brendan Guhle ready?

 

After reading the article, it seems like he will be given every chance to make the team.  He has nothing left to prove in Jrs and we are desperate for his speed.

Great article.  Thanks for sharing.  He's the exact type of Dman this team needs.



#286 Eleven

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:18 AM

Freeman, I actually like Lehner, but I think we overpaid for him and have said if he becomes our starter and leads us to the playoff no one will complain about a 1st for him. I just like playing Devil's Advocate to Dudacek and he likes to do it to me.

 

They paid the going rate.



#287 North Buffalo

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

They paid the going rate.

Debatable... and is the going rate worth it... guess time will tell???

#288 Eleven

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

Debatable... and is the going rate worth it... guess time will tell???

 

It's ten picks higher than what the Sabres were able to get for Biron.



#289 North Buffalo

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 10:39 AM

It's ten picks higher than what the Sabres were able to get for Biron.

Market has changed since then and Sabres had Chad... just saying in that draft not sure it was wisest decision. In a vacuum sure... overpaid given the market imo and opportunity cost.
PS Lehner argument has been beaten enough. like the guy's attitude and hope he keeps developing ie figures out how to stop puck in shootout and over left shoulder snipes. so all water under bridge hope he turns out well despite cost.

Edited by North Buffalo, 17 March 2017 - 10:34 AM.


#290 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:03 PM

They clearly paid the going rate for an emerging young goalie. I posted all the comparables a few weeks back and am not going to repeat the process. But from Anders Lindback in 2012 to Freddy Andersen last summer, the Lehner price was absolutely in the ballpark.

Feel free to debate whether it was worth paying that price for Lehner - who was outstanding again last night to no comment from the naysayers - but that absolutely was the going rate.

Edited by dudacek, 17 March 2017 - 12:05 PM.


#291 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:15 PM

They clearly paid the going rate for an emerging young goalie. I posted all the comparables a few weeks back and am not going to repeat the process. But from Anders Lindback in 2012 to Freddy Andersen last summer, the Lehner price was absolutely in the ballpark.

Feel free to debate whether it was worth paying that price for Lehner - who was outstanding again last night to no comment from the naysayers - but that absolutely was the going rate.

 

Plus we got Legwand. Not that he added much, but that's like a 3rd/4th rounder coming back to us.



#292 tom webster

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:15 PM

not only has Lehner been outstanding, he has done it while playing behind the worst defense in the league(not my words)



#293 DarthEbriate

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:22 PM

Plus we got Legwand. Not that he added much, but that's like a 3rd/4th rounder coming back to us.

It's not intended as a knock on Grant, and Legwand's only memorable contribution on offense last season was the 3/4 rink bouncing shortie goal...  (although, didn't he have a suspicious amount of breakaways last year -- not that he scored, but he had them?)  .... but,

 

In hindsight, having Leggy on the PK this year -- and as our savvy 4th center -- just for one more transition year... might be the difference between where we're at and the playoffs. At least, until we dropped 10 of 12. But I don't think our PK is 30th with Legwand on it. The counterargument is of course, if Legwand is here, the Rodrigues isn't gaining NHL experience on the 4th and the PK.

 

It's a prospects thread...  let's go, Rodrigues!



#294 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:52 PM

They clearly paid the going rate for an emerging young goalie. I posted all the comparables a few weeks back and am not going to repeat the process. But from Anders Lindback in 2012 to Freddy Andersen last summer, the Lehner price was absolutely in the ballpark.

Feel free to debate whether it was worth paying that price for Lehner - who was outstanding again last night to no comment from the naysayers - but that absolutely was the going rate.

no it wasn't.  You mentioned among other things that guys like Rask were drafted in the first and I showed that Rask was acquired by Bos for virtually nothing.  Furthermore, people are forgetting that Ott had to dump one goalie, Lehner already had concussion and injury issues and we gave them cap relief by taking Legwand off their hands saving them $3 mill.  So in a buyers market we overpaid for an injured unproven player.  It has worked out this season.  No question Lehner has been greatly improved besides the discussed continuing flaws and that if he stays healthy and continues to improve no one will question the price paid, but that doesn't change the over payment.

 

What prospects?


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 12:53 PM.


#295 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:09 PM

You're trolling or deliberately blind.

There are countless examples of goalies with Lehner's pedigree going for mid- to late- firsts, high seconds, or multiple seconds.
The fact the Leafs vastly overrated Andrew Raycroft is irrelevant to the fact that they drafted Rask in the bottom third of the first round.
Again, you cherry pick one instance and ignore the body of evidence.

The Oilers were prepared to give Ottawa the 33rd pick. We beat it. Going rate.
Bet the Oilers wish we hadn't, considering they ended up swapping that pick, plus number 16 for Griffin Reinhart.
Bad trade, but the going rate for a projected (mistakenly) first pairing defenceman.

#296 North Buffalo

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:23 PM

To be fair I wasnt in favor of the Lehner deal and jury is still out thou admittedly he is growing on me. Mostly just frustrated Sabres didnt aquire enough D talent to make the playoffs this year and at this rate are again gonna finish in the bottom 5.

#297 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:56 PM

You're trolling or deliberately blind.

There are countless examples of goalies with Lehner's pedigree going for mid- to late- firsts, high seconds, or multiple seconds.
The fact the Leafs vastly overrated Andrew Raycroft is irrelevant to the fact that they drafted Rask in the bottom third of the first round.
Again, you cherry pick one instance and ignore the body of evidence.

The Oilers were prepared to give Ottawa the 33rd pick. We beat it. Going rate.
Bet the Oilers wish we hadn't, considering they ended up swapping that pick, plus number 16 for Griffin Reinhart.
Bad trade, but the going rate for a projected (mistakenly) first pairing defenceman.

The difference in value between the 33rd pick and 21st is night and day.  I've showed you this chart before, http://www.broadstre...alue-trading-up, but it illustrates the difference very well.  To move up in a draft from 33 to 21 would take at least the 40th pick.  (So 33 + 40 to get 21).  They are not even close to the same value.  Where Rask was drafted by Toronto is meaningless, he doesn't play for them.  To compare apples to apples, we need to look at what other teams paid for their up and coming goalies.  Boston paid virtually nothing for Rask.  In 2015 we paid with the 21st overall pick in a very deep draft while Talbot when to Edm for picks 57, 79 and 184, and Jones went to SJ for the 29th pick in 2016 and a unsigned 5th rd drafted college player.

 

In addition Lehner had the worst gga and save % in the NHL of the 3 players and was injured when acquired.

 

Using the above referenced chart lets compare the 3 trades on points

1) Lehner for the 21st picks = 21.5 pts

2) Talbot for 57, 79 and 184 =  4 + 1.8 + .12 = 5.92 pts (or about the 49th pick in the draft - a mid 2nd rd pick)

3) All Star Martin Jones for the 29th pick (2016) and a former 133rd pick (.27 pts) = 15.27 pts (but should discount for the added year).  However, regardless of the year, to move up from 29 to 21 would cost around the 46th pick in the draft (a mid 2nd rd pick)

 

Just crunching the numbers and comparing deals done the same time for similar players we overpaid and compared to Talbot we really overpaid and it's not even close.  Lehner was worth at the most the 33rd pick Edm offered.

 

Also to illustrate how accurate this chart is lets look at the Asplund aspect of the Pysyk trade.

We received the 33rd pick (12.5pts) for the 38th (9.9 pts) and 89th picks (1.2 pts).  9.9 + 1.2 = 11.1 (or around the 35th pick on the chart).  Pretty accurate I'd say.  


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 02:13 PM.


#298 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:10 PM

The difference in value between the 33rd pick and 21st is night and day.  I've showed you this chart before, http://www.broadstre...alue-trading-up, but it illustrates the difference very well.  To move up in a draft from 33 to 21 would take at least the 40th pick.  (So 33 + 40 to get 21).  They are not even close to the same value.  Where Rask was drafted is meaningless.  To compare apples to apples, we need to look at what other teams paid for their up and coming goalies.  Boston paid virtually nothing for Rask.  In 2015 we paid with the 21st overall pick in a very deep draft while Talbot when to Edm for picks 57, 79 and 184, and Jones went to SJ for the 29th pick in 2016 and a unsigned 5th rd drafted college player.

 

In addition Lehner had the worst gga and save % in the NHL of the 3 players and was injured when acquired.

 

Using the above referenced chart lets compare the 3 trades on points

1) Lehner for the 21st picks = 21.5 pts

2) Talbot for 57, 79 and 184 =  4 + 1.8 + .12 = 5.92 pts (or about the 49th pick in the draft)

3) All Star Martin Jones for the 29th pick (2016) and a former 133rd pick (.27 pts) = 15.27 pts (but should discount for the added year).  However, regardless of the year, to move up from 29 to 21 would cost around the 46th pick in the draft.

 

Just crunching the numbers and comparing deals done the same time for similar players we overpaid and compared to Talbot we really overpaid and it's not even close.  Lehner was worth at the most the 33rd pick Edm offered.

 

Also to illustrate how accurate this chart is lets look at the Asplund aspect of the Pysyk trade.

We received the 33rd pick (12.5pts) for the 38th (9.9 pts) and 89th picks (1.2 pts).  9.9 + 1.2 = 11.1 (or around the 35th pick on the chart).  Pretty accurate I'd say.  

 

Andersson was the 30th last year and roughly 50th this year. Pretty similar value (especially as he has slightly worse stats).


Edited by ThirtyEight, 17 March 2017 - 02:11 PM.


#299 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:21 PM

Andersson was the 30th last year and roughly 50th this year. Pretty similar value (especially as he has slightly worse stats).

 

Andersson was a much more accomplished goalie when acquired with over 125 appearance and both GGA and Save % superior to Lehner's.

 

However the 30th pick is worth 14.2 pts plus the 50th pick (5.8 pts if in the same year) = 20 pts.  At least this is close to what we overpaid for Lehner.



#300 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:26 PM

Cherry picking.
Again.

#301 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:38 PM

Cherry picking.
Again.

How is using the 3 trades done in the same off-season (actually within 5 days of each other) for similar players cherry picking?  In fact it's the closest we'll get to knowing what the market value for up and coming goalies was in a particular year.  

 

If you are doing an appraisal on a home you don't look at the price paid 5 years ago.  You look at sales of similar homes in the same neighborhood within 6 months and correct for slight differences such as maintenance.  

 

Using your theory the price of up and coming goalies in trade is a nearly a constant of a 1st rd pick year to year.  I've clearly illustrated that it isn't and in 2015 the price for a healthy up and coming goalie was a 2nd rd pick.  



#302 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

You cherry picked by hand waving away the Rask pick by saying it doesn't matter. He was a promising young goalie and that was the price the Leafs paid.
You cherry picked by ignoring the fact the Capitals paid a very similar price for Samsonov that same year.
You cherry picked by using a made-up formula as a fact to make it seem like a pick in the bottom third of the first is somehow always better than two in the second.
You cherry picked by suggesting a 27-year-old minor league soon-to-be UFA with one hot NHL stretch should have the same value as a touted 23-year-old 2nd-rounder still under team control.
You cherry picked by neglecting to mention that the 29th pick was an absolute best case scenario for the Sharks in the Jones deal. When they made the trade they were picking 15th.
You cherry pick Legwand as a negative in the Lehner trade when he was a decent 4th line centre and a good influence on the kids and we didn't need the cap space.
You cherry picked by ignoring the gist of both this and my original post: in the past decade, promising young goalies have been acquired for anywhere from the ninth pick overall (Corey Schneider) to picks in the 40s like Carter Hart last year. Lehner and Legwand for 21 fall in that window.

It's just like you cherry pick that Murray was an idiot for the price he paid in the Brayden McNabb deal while conveniently forgetting about what the Kings got in the deal.
Last I checked, the Kings have two struggling prospects unlikely to ever make the NHL, and a mediocre defenceman struggling to stay in the lineup. We have an unproven winger with NHL upside and a lacklustre 4th-line fighter. Was this really such a horrible trade?

Edited by dudacek, 17 March 2017 - 03:16 PM.


#303 WildCard

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:13 PM

dudacek coming with the fire.



#304 tom webster

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

You cherry picked by hand waving away the Rask pick by saying it doesn't matter. He was a promising young goalie and that was the price the Leafs paid.
You cherry picked by ignoring the fact the Capitals paid a very similar price for Samsonov that same year.
You cherry picked by using a made-up formula as a fact to make it seem like a pick in the bottom third of the first is somehow always better than two in the second.
You cherry picked by suggesting a 27-year-old minor league soon-to-be UFA with one hot NHL stretch should have the same value as a touted 23-year-old 2nd-rounder still under team control.
You cherry picked by neglecting to mention that the 29th pick was an absolute best case scenario for the Sharks in the Jones deal. When they made the trade they were picking 15th.
You cherry pick Legwand as a negative in the Lehner trade when he was a decent 4th line centre and a good influence on the kids and we didn't need the cap space.
You cherry picked by ignoring the gist of both this and my original post: in the past decade, promising young goalies have been acquired for anywhere from the ninth pick overall (Corey Schneider) to picks in the 40s like Carter Hart last year. Lehner and Legwand for 21 fall in that window.

It's just like you cherry pick that Murray was an idiot for the price he paid in the Brayden McNabb deal.
Last I checked, the Kings have two struggling prospects unlikely to ever make the NHL, and a mediocre defenceman struggling to stay in the lineup. We have an unproven winger with NHL upside and a lacklustre 4th-line fighter. Was this really such a horrible trade?

And another realization of why I just don't post here much anymore



#305 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

And another realization of why I just don't post here much anymore


???

#306 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:35 PM

dudacek coming with the fire.


One does not simply...belittle Robin Lehner in the presence of Dudacek.

*contemplates ordering kevlar before posting some advanced metrics where Lehner is quite meh*

#307 Robviously

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

One does not simply...belittle Robin Lehner in the presence of Dudacek.

*contemplates ordering kevlar before posting some advanced metrics where Lehner is quite meh*

:ph34r:



#308 yse325

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:06 PM

Since when does draft position and trade value after being drafted ever equate?  Malcom Subban was drafted 24th in 2012.  Do you think Boston could get a 1st for him now?  I doubt it.  They may give him up for nothing in expansion. 

Montour was drafted 55th, do you think Ana would take the 55th pick this year for him?  Of course not they'd want a high 1st at the least, but probably want a solid young top 6 forward.  We are talking trade value!

 

Toronto drafted Rask with the 21st pick in 2005.  Then they traded him for Andrew Roycroft.  

Just because Lehner was drafted for a 2nd rd pick and Martin Jones wasn't drafted doesn't mean they aren't worth a similar amount during June of 2015.  How about now? Do you think SJ would trade us Jones for Lehner right now in an even swap?  

 

I assume you were talking about Talbot, except you don't have your facts rights.  He was hot playing for an injured Hank in 2014-15, but also was the backup in 2013-14 and put up a 1.64 gga and 941 save % in 21 games.  Obviously not in the minors and pretty much  had equal experience in the NHL when traded as both Jones and Lehner.  The only thing that you mentioned that does add to Lehner's value was the extra year on his contract.  However, the cap hit for all three goalies for the last 2 seasons has been similar with somewhat Lehner less, but we will be paying more then the 3 for 9 bridge deal SJ signed Jones for and likely more then the 3 for 12.5 Talbot re-signed for.  

 

However we are also not talking about a decade of goalie trades.  We were talking about GMTM overpaying for Lehner in the market place of 2015.  However your own theory shows how varied the returns are; the 9th over pick for Schneider to a 57th for Talbot.  These are night and day differences in value.  It like comparing the 2014 2nd pick we gave back to LA in the McNabb deal to Nick Ehlers who was drafted 9th in that 2014 draft.    Was Lehner value somewhere in that range; Sure, but that is a huge range and the truth is in 2015 his value was a lot closer to the pick 57 to then the 9th overall.

 

You are forgetting that I like Lehner, but just because I like the guy and think with the right coaching he has a bright future doesn't change the fact that GMTM overpaid in 2015 to get him.  I have also stated a millions times that if he leads us to the playoffs no one will care what we paid for him.  However if I'm evaluating the quality of GMTM's work as GM it is important to determine if GMTM continues to over pay to get players in trades or free agency.  


Edited by yse325, 17 March 2017 - 04:22 PM.


#309 dudacek

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:24 PM

One does not simply...belittle Robin Lehner in the presence of Dudacek.
*contemplates ordering kevlar before posting some advanced metrics where Lehner is quite meh*

I don't know yet if Lehner is our goalie and I said explicitly that you can make a good argument that Lehner wasn't worth that deal.
Time will tell.

What I said was the trade was in the ballpark for what teams give up for goalies of Lehner's ilk - touted but unproven young guys who they believe could be poised to emerge. Murray needed a lawnmower. At worst, he chose to buy the one he liked for $400 instead of waiting a few months to get a similar one on sale for $375, or buy a lower-reviewed model for $300. People act like he bought a used $300 model for $800.

It's the myth that Murray massively overpaid that needs to die.

Edited by dudacek, 17 March 2017 - 04:27 PM.


#310 North Buffalo

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 05:01 PM

I don't know yet if Lehner is our goalie and I said explicitly that you can make a good argument that Lehner wasn't worth that deal.
Time will tell.
What I said was the trade was in the ballpark for what teams give up for goalies of Lehner's ilk - touted but unproven young guys who they believe could be poised to emerge. Murray needed a lawnmower. At worst, he chose to buy the one he liked for $400 instead of waiting a few months to get a similar one on sale for $375, or buy a lower-reviewed model for $300. People act like he bought a used $300 model for $800.
It's the myth that Murray massively overpaid that needs to die.


The myth isnt going to die because of the talent available in last years draft class. Just saying, if it was this years draft class id be fine with trade but last year had too much talent to give up that pick.

#311 Robviously

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:21 PM

I don't know yet if Lehner is our goalie and I said explicitly that you can make a good argument that Lehner wasn't worth that deal.
Time will tell.

What I said was the trade was in the ballpark for what teams give up for goalies of Lehner's ilk - touted but unproven young guys who they believe could be poised to emerge. Murray needed a lawnmower. At worst, he chose to buy the one he liked for $400 instead of waiting a few months to get a similar one on sale for $375, or buy a lower-reviewed model for $300. People act like he bought a used $300 model for $800.

It's the myth that Murray massively overpaid that needs to die.

If you're including the word "massively" it's tough to dispute you.  But he did overpay and he did goof because there are already a few players taken right after that pick that teams would never trade us for Lehner -- and they're players we could use right now.

 

Also, if the price was the price because of a bidding war, that's not a good reason to make a trade.  If the Oilers drove the price too high by offering the 33rd pick, we should have just walked away.  Teams regret winning bidding wars as often as they are happy they won them.

 

Lehner's fine.  He's not terrible, but he's not so special that he's a critical part of the team moving forward.  He'll get a bridge deal and the team will take another 2-3 years to see if he's really their guy for a Cup run someday.



#312 Sabre fan

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 11:35 AM

I read somewhere were such a small percentage of players drafted ever pan out...there have been so many first round busts and while the Sabres have had their share, so has every other team so he fact is that while drafting players high is all good, it means nothing overall...the truth is no one knows for sure but GMTM's drafting thus far has been pretty darn good. Funny how some teams (see Anaheim) seem to be able to find good young players while always drafting higher up in the standings (detroit were able to find good draft picks year after year while drafting way up every year). I do think Lerner is actually very good and once we get a new coach that allows a system that goes by the new NHL's model that a good defense is a good offense and lerner starts to see far less action and shots as we control the puck more he will excel even more



#313 yse325

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 11:52 AM

Here is the recent version of a series of article written and updated by TSN's Scott Cullen over the last 5-6 years on the performance of draft picks. http://www.tsn.ca/st...-picks-1.317819

He focuses on how many guys make the NHL for at least 100 games and what their impact is on a scale of 1-10. Top 6 forwards and top 4 D get a 7-10 on the scale.

It's a great read and really helpful in understanding the difference in value of a draft pick, such as 21 vs 57.

#314 dudacek

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 12:14 PM

It's a great read and really helpful in understanding the difference in value of a draft pick, such as 21 vs 57.

And after you've finally grasped the difficult concept that 21st is actually quite a bit better than 57th - it's hard, but you'll get there - you can take this look at the price teams have paid for young goalies and judge how far out of whack the Lehner trade was.

http://forums.sabres...yth/?hl=bernier

Edited by dudacek, 18 March 2017 - 12:17 PM.


#315 yse325

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 02:54 PM

And after you've finally grasped the difficult concept that 21st is actually quite a bit better than 57th - it's hard, but you'll get there - you can take this look at the price teams have paid for young goalies and judge how far out of whack the Lehner trade was.http://forums.sabres...yth/?hl=bernier


Huh? I'm not not the one trying to equate a trade from 2005 to one in 2015. I'm not the one who thinks that a range of 9th overall to 57th overall is relatively the same thing. History shows that the 21st we gave up was of significantly more value then the 57th Edm gave for Talbot or the 29th in 2016 that SJ gave for Jones for three goalies that were of equalish value based on age, experience and performance. These are the only comparables that matter since that was the trade market that existed when Lehner was acquired and it's pretty clear that GMTM overpaid, while shrewder and more experienced GM's got similar (or better) quality for less. Looking at the three goalies, one can easily make an argument that we spent the most and got the worst of the three goalies, despite Lehners improvement.

If you want to argue that a GM should look at history to get a general idea of what he should offer to acquire an up and coming goalie, ok I can accept that argument to a limited extent. However, the GM must factor in the quality of the goalies available and number of teams looking for the goalies in that year in making an offer.i Some years we have buyers markets and sometimes sellers markets. Sometimes you have excellent players available and sometimes you don't.

#316 Crusader1969

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:37 PM

If you're including the word "massively" it's tough to dispute you.  But he did overpay and he did goof because there are already a few players taken right after that pick that teams would never trade us for Lehner -- and they're players we could use right now.
 
Also, if the price was the price because of a bidding war, that's not a good reason to make a trade.  If the Oilers drove the price too high by offering the 33rd pick, we should have just walked away.  Teams regret winning bidding wars as often as they are happy they won them.
 
Lehner's fine.  He's not terrible, but he's not so special that he's a critical part of the team moving forward.  He'll get a bridge deal and the team will take another 2-3 years to see if he's really their guy for a Cup run someday.


Who are these players we could use right now?

#317 Robviously

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 09:39 PM

Who are these players we could use right now?


Read my post at the top of this page.

#318 yse325

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 05:34 PM

Johansson signed to ATO. What does this mean to the Sabres and to our ability to sign Petersen? Does this show Murray is worried about losing Ullmark? Can Johansson return to Sweden next year?

My gut reaction is that Murray is simply getting a free up close look at how much (or how little) Johannson has developed. Might as well take a look because the Sabres could be in need of some goaltending depth next season and its not like the Amerks are fighting for a playoff spot.

The worst case scenario is that Nillson goes elsewhere, Petersen returns to school or goes FA, and Ullmark gets taken in expansion. Then all we have left is Lehner in Buffalo and Kasdorf under contract or control. In this scenario Johansson becomes our top G prospect and signing him to his ELC becomes important for depth.

However, I don't think it really changes anything. As this is only an ATO, there is no obligation to have him in NA next season and isn't a reflection on our ability to sign Petersen. I might feel differently if we had signed him to his ELC, but this move is no different then playing a kid from Jrs once his season ends.

#319 Robviously

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 05:47 PM

https://twitter.com/...403692014678017

 

RHD Anthony Florentino (2 SOG) sees his collegiate career end as Providence falls to Harvard 3-0. Florentino 2016-17: 30GP 9-7-16. #Sabres

 



#320 dudacek

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:10 PM

Personally I am more interested in Harvards Malone than florentino