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Trade ideas and speculation

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#1 Hoss

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 05:08 PM

So the trade talk should really start to kick into high gear as the finals progress and the season comes to an end...

 

Tim Murray says that he made some calls today but teams are finalizing draft lists before really talking.

There has been plenty of talk about goalies and even some Rick Nash talk.

 

LeBrun says that the Oilers and Sharks have talked to Ottawa about their goalies and are both interested in Cam Talbot.

 

Figured we could start a thread for speculation and ideas.

 

Here is a good site where they gather links discussing rumors around the league:

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/



#2 BRAWNDO

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 03:25 PM

Malkin and Nash have both been mentioned. I would say no, particularly to Malkin. The cost would be Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and another prospect. At this point in time I would rather have the young core grow together and add pieces to it, not subtract them.

http://prohockeytalk...-and-rick-nash/

#3 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 03:41 PM

Malkin and Nash have both been mentioned. I would say no, particularly to Malkin. The cost would be Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and another prospect. At this point in time I would rather have the young core grow together and add pieces to it, not subtract them.

http://prohockeytalk...-and-rick-nash/

If that's all it would take to get that deal done I would do it now.



#4 WildCard

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 03:58 PM

If that's all it would take to get that deal done I would do it now.

Sorry, are you saying you would do that deal if you were GMTM?

#5 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:07 PM

If that's all it would take to get that deal done I would do it now.


Malkin is going to be 29. No f'n way I do that.

#6 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:17 PM

Sorry, are you saying you would do that deal if you were GMTM?

Yes. If it's Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and a prospect (as long as it's not Eichel) then I do that deal.


Malkin is going to be 29. No f'n way I do that.

Over a PPG player. No reason to think he won't keep that up for another 4-5 years. Worst case is he does keep it up and then slowly moves to a 60 point player for a few years. We would be able to contend within 2-3 years if Eichel performs early on. We're talking about a top five player in the league.

 

 

I'm not 100% set on doing that deal. My immediate reaction is "yes." We're in a weird spot to make a move like that, but Malkin is one of the best. He would be the best non-goalie we've had since Perreault.

 

 

 

Agent JP Barry, on Malkin-wants-traded speculation: "I don't know where this is coming from. Not from me or Geno. I'm trying to ignore it."


Edited by Hoss, 05 June 2015 - 04:27 PM.


#7 LaLaLaFontaine

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:35 PM

Malkin will cost something like Reinhardt, Risto, Grigorenko and #21.

Would I do it?

For a legit superstar?


Hmmm....

#8 qwksndmonster

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:45 PM

Malkin will cost something like Reinhardt, Risto, Grigorenko and #21.

Would I do it?

For a legit superstar?


Hmmm....

No way am I trading the best gypsy jazz guitarist of all time for a bum Rusky like Malkin.


Edited by qwksndmonster, 05 June 2015 - 04:46 PM.


#9 Let's Go Buffalo

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:47 PM

Malkin will cost something like Reinhardt, Risto, Grigorenko and #21.

Would I do it?

For a legit superstar?


Hmmm....


No freakin way would I do that. Way too much to give up...

#10 nucci

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:54 PM

Malkin and Nash have both been mentioned. I would say no, particularly to Malkin. The cost would be Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and another prospect. At this point in time I would rather have the young core grow together and add pieces to it, not subtract them.

http://prohockeytalk...-and-rick-nash/

You don't know that. Lemieux talking about selling the team and Malkin has $9M cap hit. Things could happen.



#11 PotentPowerPlay22

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:06 PM

Based on history, Murray will make a big trade and overpay again. 



#12 spndnchz

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:10 PM

OK JP. Lol

#13 BRAWNDO

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:16 PM

You don't know that. Lemieux talking about selling the team and Malkin has $9M cap hit. Things could happen.


I know the cost would probably be higher. Hoss created this thread so we could speculate and have jovial discussions about proposed trades.

#14 IrwinNelson

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:20 PM

Based on history, Murray will make a big trade and overpay again. 

Isn't it a little early to say that Murray overpaid for Kane/Bogo? Armia, Lemieux, and Kane have all yet to play for their new teams. If only Kane makes it, isn't Bogo/Kane for Myers and a pick a steal? Maybe it's viewed a little different if Stafford gets an extension there, but I'm pretty sure most people around here are indifferent when it comes to him.


Edited by IrwinNelson, 05 June 2015 - 05:21 PM.


#15 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:20 PM

I know the cost would probably be higher. Hoss created this thread so we could speculate and have jovial discussions about proposed trades.


Actual I created this thread so we could call each other's trade ideas things like "stupid" and "idiotic."

Just joshin' :P

No way I'm giving Risto and Reinhart. And no way it takes less than Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 at least like Nucci suggested it might.

#16 nucci

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:40 PM

Based on history, Murray will make a big trade and overpay again. 

Murray has a history already?


I know the cost would probably be higher. Hoss created this thread so we could speculate and have jovial discussions about proposed trades.

I agree...just thinking if team is sold new owner will need to keep costs down........trade high salaries....



#17 dudacek

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:41 PM

Murray has a history already?

 

 

Yes. He bailed way too early on Ryan Miller and Steve Ott, Evander Kane has done nothing in Buffalo yet, and look at everything Brayden McNabb has accomplished in L.A.



#18 bunomatic

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:45 PM

Just stick to the plan GMTM. Don't let these bozos talk you into selling the farm. :P



#19 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:38 PM

 

Yes. If it's Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and a prospect (as long as it's not Eichel) then I do that deal.


Over a PPG player. No reason to think he won't keep that up for another 4-5 years. Worst case is he does keep it up and then slowly moves to a 60 point player for a few years. We would be able to contend within 2-3 years if Eichel performs early on. We're talking about a top five player in the league.

 

 

I'm not 100% set on doing that deal. My immediate reaction is "yes." We're in a weird spot to make a move like that, but Malkin is one of the best. He would be the best non-goalie we've had since Perreault.

 

 

 

He's only had 1 mostly healthy season since 2008. Every year outside of the 2011-12 season, he has missed at least 13 games. I think you could point to his body breaking down, and at 29, that's unlikely to get any better and at some point it may start to impact his per-game averages. Also, even though it wouldn't be an issue right now, the $9.5 million cap hit may matter down the road, especially if he really does start to decline. That cap hit for a guy who might be putting up only 60 points in a couple years is simply not okay. Finally, I just think it's the wrong move at the wrong time for where the team is at. Giving up huge assets for a guy about to exit (if he hasn't already) his prime on a huge contract is the wrong acquisition for a team that just finished last two years running. Even with trying to win, there are significant holes on this team and some of them will not be filled until young players grow over the next several seasons. Trading for Malkin would be the ultimate in putting the cart before the horse--it would be a "win now" move for a team that just spent two years building itself to win over the long haul.



#20 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

He's only had 1 mostly healthy season since 2008. Every year outside of the 2011-12 season, he has missed at least 13 games. I think you could point to his body breaking down, and at 29, that's unlikely to get any better and at some point it may start to impact his per-game averages. Also, even though it wouldn't be an issue right now, the $9.5 million cap hit may matter down the road, especially if he really does start to decline. That cap hit for a guy who might be putting up only 60 points in a couple years is simply not okay. Finally, I just think it's the wrong move at the wrong time for where the team is at. Giving up huge assets for a guy about to exit (if he hasn't already) his prime on a huge contract is the wrong acquisition for a team that just finished last two years running. Even with trying to win, there are significant holes on this team and some of them will not be filled until young players grow over the next several seasons. Trading for Malkin would be the ultimate in putting the cart before the horse--it would be a "win now" move for a team that just spent two years building itself to win over the long haul.

Outside of 2010-11 he's never missed a single playoff game. Methinks it's a mixture of bumps and bruises and the medical staff taking it easy when they know there's not much to fight for most regular seasons in Pittsburgh.

 

I agree that it's probably the wrong time to make the move. The more I think about it the more I don't think it's a good idea... But Malkin gives us instant credibility. If all it takes is Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and a prospect then I think we're a playoff team with a few other small tweaks and a contender with a few years of growth.

I wouldn't be mad about it, but I won't beat the drum for it to happen. I would say I prefer that we don't at this point.


Edited by Hoss, 05 June 2015 - 06:53 PM.


#21 deluca67

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 07:44 PM

Outside of 2010-11 he's never missed a single playoff game. Methinks it's a mixture of bumps and bruises and the medical staff taking it easy when they know there's not much to fight for most regular seasons in Pittsburgh.

 

I agree that it's probably the wrong time to make the move. The more I think about it the more I don't think it's a good idea... But Malkin gives us instant credibility. If all it takes is Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and a prospect then I think we're a playoff team with a few other small tweaks and a contender with a few years of growth.

I wouldn't be mad about it, but I won't beat the drum for it to happen. I would say I prefer that we don't at this point.

At this point I would think giving up the amount of assets needed to land Malkin would slow down the Sabres progress. So much about moves like this is about timing. As you said this is the wrong time. If a team picks up Malkin the expectations immediately becomes a Stanley Cup in 2-3 years. The Sabres are currently not in position to support a Cup run in that time frame. 3-4 years down the road this is the type of move I would expect the Sabres to be looking for. 

 

IMO, the focus for the Sabres over the next 2-3 years should be to develop young talent and continue to acquire and flip assets. At that point this first wave of young prospects should have filtered themselves, some will be entrenched in their positions on the roster and others be shown the door. There will be deals that make sense over the next few years, deals to elevate the talent level and add NHL experience will be needed. Timing will dictate the size and impact of moves the Sabres will make. Deals will have to make sense in the grand scheme of becoming a Cup contender.   



#22 Claude_Verret

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 07:48 PM

We didn't tank in order to trade the assets acquired for another teams older star. Go with what brung ya and believe in the tank.

#23 deluca67

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 07:55 PM

We didn't tank in order to trade the assets acquired for another teams older star. Go with what brung ya and believe in the tank.

Fans might be less worried about Malkin's age if he could play a complete season. 



#24 Peppy22

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:24 PM

I wanna see hwo we develop the kids. We are suffering for 2 years to get these amazing players. I wanna see them play. We didnt suck in order to get great players as trade-bait. Who says that Reinhart isn't putting up numbers like Malkin in a few years. We haven't even seen many of those guys getting a shot in the NHL and we are already trading them in our minds for proven players. Develop proven players yourself... much cheaper...



#25 Huckleberry

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:27 PM

Grigorenko > Malkin, only had 15 beers so stil know what im typing.

Grigs will bring stanley home :D


Fans might be less worried about Malkin's age if he could play a complete season. 

 

And this



#26 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:32 PM

I wanna see hwo we develop the kids. We are suffering for 2 years to get these amazing players. I wanna see them play. We didnt suck in order to get great players as trade-bait. Who says that Reinhart isn't putting up numbers like Malkin in a few years. We haven't even seen many of those guys getting a shot in the NHL and we are already trading them in our minds for proven players. Develop proven players yourself... much cheaper...

Small complaint here, but this is off. Just because they're traded doesn't mean they're trade-bait. The phrase itself is defined as somebody who is used to entice a team to make a deal or a player that is traded, but I look at the term more as a player or asset that teams dangle to others for a deal. It's not like we're sending an email to the league saying "what can we get for Reinhart?" We didn't suck so we could trade them, we obviously sucked so we can play them. But when a huge opportunity presents itself Murray will obviously consider it.

 

I'm not saying they should make the deal. I don't think they should after initially thinking otherwise. But the argument above has nothing to do with it.


Edited by Hoss, 05 June 2015 - 08:34 PM.


#27 Tondas

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:53 PM

GMTM is comitted to youth.  I think any trade/aquisition will have to be a 24 year old or younger player.  I wouldn't expect him to bring in anyone older than that.



#28 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 09:01 PM

GMTM is comitted to youth.  I think any trade/aquisition will have to be a 24 year old or younger player.  I wouldn't expect him to bring in anyone older than that.

I think this is taking the idea too far. I do believe, based on what he has said, they'll be more aggressive in targeting players that are in their mid-to-low 20s, but I fully expect him to consider and even acquire at least one older player.


Edited by Hoss, 05 June 2015 - 09:01 PM.


#29 thewookie1

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 09:57 PM

I think this is taking the idea too far. I do believe, based on what he has said, they'll be more aggressive in targeting players that are in their mid-to-low 20s, but I fully expect him to consider and even acquire at least one older player.

 

I think the only exception would probably be Patrick Sharp seeing as if they win this year he'd have three rings and would be useful.



#30 Hoss

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 10:12 PM

I think the only exception would probably be Patrick Sharp seeing as if they win this year he'd have three rings and would be useful.

I'm sure there is potential for more than just Patrick Sharp coming to Buffalo as far as players over 24 go... 



#31 K8prisoner

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 10:42 PM

trade our second pick this year and evander kane for a boatload of future picks and prospects... i think we were finally learning the ettiquete of the tank


Edited by K8prisoner, 05 June 2015 - 10:43 PM.


#32 nfreeman

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 10:43 PM

For the record: if the proposal is Reinhart, Risto and #21 for Malkin, I think Pittsburgh says no, not GMTM.

#33 Bob Malooga

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 12:06 AM

Yes. If it's Reinhart, Zadorov, 21 and a prospect (as long as it's not Eichel) then I do that deal.

Over a PPG player. No reason to think he won't keep that up for another 4-5 years. Worst case is he does keep it up and then slowly moves to a 60 point player for a few years. We would be able to contend within 2-3 years if Eichel performs early on. We're talking about a top five player in the league.
 
 
I'm not 100% set on doing that deal. My immediate reaction is "yes." We're in a weird spot to make a move like that, but Malkin is one of the best. He would be the best non-goalie we've had since Perreault.
 
 
 
Dave Molinari @MolinariPG

Agent JP Barry, on Malkin-wants-traded speculation: "I don't know where this is coming from. Not from me or Geno. I'm trying to ignore it."

Top-5? Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane, Stamkos...I'd take all them over Malkin in a heartbeat. (Top 7-10 is more like it.)

But, I rather use assets like that, which are some of our best, for somebody younger.

Edited by Bob Malooga, 06 June 2015 - 12:06 AM.


#34 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 01:22 AM

For the record: if the proposal is Reinhart, Risto and #21 for Malkin, I think Pittsburgh says no, not GMTM.


This is part of why I don't think we see a Malkin trade: I don't think there's a hockey trade out there that makes Pittsburgh better, helps them capitalize on the rest of Crosby's prime, and is palatable to the other team involved. And I sure as heck don't think the Sabres and Pens work a deal of any kind--just really bad trade partners.

#35 WildCard

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 09:18 AM

This is part of why I don't think we see a Malkin trade: I don't think there's a hockey trade out there that makes Pittsburgh better, helps them capitalize on the rest of Crosby's prime, and is palatable to the other team involved. And I sure as heck don't think the Sabres and Pens work a deal of any kind--just really bad trade partners.

Very true. I think there are about 3-4 potential trade partners for Pitt in a Malkin deal: NYR, Montreal, Minnesota, and St.Louis. All teams on the cusp and with some ammo to get a deal done. I really, really want this trade to happen, it would be awesome. 



#36 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 10:00 AM

Very true. I think there are about 3-4 potential trade partners for Pitt in a Malkin deal: NYR, Montreal, Minnesota, and St.Louis. All teams on the cusp and with some ammo to get a deal done. I really, really want this trade to happen, it would be awesome.


Minnesota...now there's an interesting one. They're pretty much in win now mode, but have some pieces Pittsburgh would want and they could part with without being crippled. Something with Granlund/Pommer/Dumba maybe?

#37 WildCard

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 10:04 AM

Minnesota...now there's an interesting one. They're pretty much in win now mode, but have some pieces Pittsburgh would want and they could part with without being crippled. Something with Granlund/Pommer/Dumba maybe?

Minnesota is actually my least likely on that list. I think they believe they aren't that far off, and don't need a player like Malkin for his cost. I mention them because Hoss had the idea in the 'Around the NHL' thread; he had a similar proposal to yours in that thread. 



#38 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 10:08 AM

Minnesota is actually my least likely on that list. I think they believe they aren't that far off, and don't need a player like Malkin for his cost. I mention them because Hoss had the idea in the 'Around the NHL' thread; he had a similar proposal to yours in that thread.


Hmmm. Rangers? Nash/Stepan/Hagelin or something like it? Cap would probably be a problem there, however. I don't think Montreal had the pieces to make it happen, because let's face it, Subban isn't going to be involved. St. Louis could do a quantity for quality deal, but at what cap ramifications for Pittsburgh? Stastny or Backes /Oshie/something ends up costing more money than Malkin, and Pitt is already up against it.

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 06 June 2015 - 10:09 AM.


#39 LaLaLaFontaine

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 12:01 PM

For the record: if the proposal is Reinhart, Risto and #21 for Malkin, I think Pittsburgh says no, not GMTM.


Thanks, I also think that also if we add Grigorenko Pittsburgh may say no.

We overvalue our prospects on this board in my opinion. When Malkin is on fire in the playoffs he single handedly can win it four you, like he did for Pittsburgh.

#40 Bob Malooga

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 01:15 PM

Trade Ideas:

Grigorenko, Zadorov, Hodgson (salary retained), pick #21...for Ryan O'Reilly.

2016 first round pick, 2017 2nd round pick, 2016 third round pick...for Tyler Toffoli.

It might seem a lot for Toffoli, but that is what it will cost the Sabres for an offer sheet anyways. This way they can negotiate a better deal with him, instead of having to overpay just to get him AND give up the draft picks. So, instead of signing him to a $6M/year deal to get him away from LA, they could maybe give him something closer to what he's worth, say $4.5M/year.

Kane - Eichel - Ennis
Moulson - Reinhart - Toffoli
Foligno - O'Reilly - Girgensons
Deslauriers - Larsson - Kaleta?

Sekera? - Bogosian
Gorges - Ristolainen
McCabe - Pysyk

Sign me up for the playoffs with that team...as long as they have a decent goalie.

(The more I look at it, we don't need both, do we? I think I would rather have O'Reilly over Toffoli, but it's a tough call. I really like both of them, and they both seem to fit what Murray is trying build this team with...just hate to lose Zadorov.)

Edited by Bob Malooga, 06 June 2015 - 01:16 PM.






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