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Do u think Buffalo has any interest in Kevin Hayes


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#1 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:10 PM

Just throwing this out there because it's looking like he is going to test the open market. Any team that signs him gives up a second. Not bad for a former first rounder 6'2 " right winger who can score. Do u believe Murray will make a play for him? What our your thoughts?

Edited by SabresBillsFan, 15 August 2014 - 02:20 PM.


#2 HopefulFuture

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

I'm not positive, but isn't the 2nd rounder like the NJ situation? It's not Buffalo giving up theres, that is correct, no?

#3 Lanny

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:52 PM

I think that's right, they're given a compensatory pick for losing him, i don't believe it comes from the team that signed  him.

#4 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:56 PM

Our newest mod is viewing the thread ...

In before ..........

#5 LGR4GM

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:15 PM

The Hawks would get a compensatory pick at the end? of the 2nd round but it would not come from the team that signs him. If he makes it to Aug 16th he is an UFA same as any other UFA
http://sports.yahoo....-141345214.html

#6 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

I think I would put an offer on him and most likely he could stick.

#7 rakish

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 15 August 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

The Hawks would get a compensatory pick at the end? of the 2nd round but it would not come from the team that signs him. If he makes it to Aug 16th he is an UFA same as any other UFA
http://sports.yahoo....-141345214.html


No, they get a 2nd round where Hayes was chosen in the first, which is 24 I believe, so that would be 54.  My reading of the CBA is that Lanny is right, there is no direct compensation from the team that signs.

Edited by rakish, 15 August 2014 - 02:23 PM.


#8 LGR4GM

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:28 PM

View Postrakish, on 15 August 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

No, they get a 2nd round where Hayes was chosen in the first, which is 24 I believe, so that would be 54.  My reading of the CBA is that Lanny is right, there is no direct compensation from the team that signs.
Okay so pick 54, but still we agree at midnight he becomes an UFA with no further ties to Chicago.

#9 shrader

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:30 PM

View Postrakish, on 15 August 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:




No, they get a 2nd round where Hayes was chosen in the first, which is 24 I believe, so that would be 54.  My reading of the CBA is that Lanny is right, there is no direct compensation from the team that signs.

You've got it. They get the pick in the second round which corresponds to where he was originally selected in the first. Everyone behind that slot in the second round just gets pushed back one slot. No one loses a pick, there is just one additional pick added to the draft (ie. there will be 31 picks in the 2nd round).

#10 MattPie

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:06 PM

I'm not sure I care what Johnny U. (Unitas) thinks about this. ;)

#11 rakish

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 04:07 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 15 August 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Okay so pick 54, but still we agree at midnight he becomes an UFA with no further ties to Chicago.

My understanding is that he isn't like a regular UFA, he gets a 3 year entry contract with its limits, but no tie to Chicago

#12 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 04:23 PM

44 NHL equivalency points based on his last year in Hockey East.  Sign him.  Get him into camp.  Get him into Rochester.  Develop him.  Then promote him or trade him.

#13 shrader

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 05:19 PM

View Postrakish, on 15 August 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

My understanding is that he isn't like a regular UFA, he gets a 3 year entry contract with its limits, but no tie to Chicago

If I'm reading his age correctly, it would actually be a 2 year entry level deal, no more, no less.

#14 Bob Malooga

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 05:44 PM

I came here specifically looking for this thread...SIGN HIM TOMORROW!

I am a little biased, given we share the same last name...so ya know, the whole jersey thing would be cool! Lol.

However, I am curious...why in the world does a team get an extra draft pick for failing to sign their prospects?

Did Buffalo get any compensation for losing/not signing Marek Zagrapan? (Or was that a different situation?)

I just don't understand how the NHL can reward one of their elite teams for failing to do their job...makes no sense.

EDIT: I'd have to think it's already in the bag he is headed for Calgary to join his former linemates in college at BC...I suspect a little bit of tampering is going on, as well...put in an offer and if you lose out on him, call them out on the tampering Timmy!

Edited by Bob Malooga, 15 August 2014 - 05:46 PM.


#15 shrader

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 06:05 PM

View PostBob Malooga, on 15 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

EDIT: I'd have to think it's already in the bag he is headed for Calgary to join his former linemates in college at BC...I suspect a little bit of tampering is going on, as well...put in an offer and if you lose out on him, call them out on the tampering Timmy!

Players can talk all they want. Just look at Parise/Suter from two years ago. They straight up admitted that they talked about the idea during the middle of the season.

#16 Bob Malooga

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 06:39 PM

View Postshrader, on 15 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Players can talk all they want. Just look at Parise/Suter from two years ago. They straight up admitted that they talked about the idea during the middle of the season.
I was joking with that part of it, given all the recruitment in all sports the past couple years.

I was REALLY hoping you would, instead, focus on explaining the other part to me, as I don't understand it? :unsure:

#17 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

View PostBob Malooga, on 15 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

However, I am curious...why in the world does a team get an extra draft pick for failing to sign their prospects?

Did Buffalo get any compensation for losing/not signing Marek Zagrapan? (Or was that a different situation?)

I just don't understand how the NHL can reward one of their elite teams for failing to do their job...makes no sense.

From wiki:

Quote

When teams lose their rights to a first round draft choice, because that player was not signed to a contract and consequently re-entered the entry draft or became an unrestricted free agent, they are awarded a compensatory draft pick. This selection will be the same numerical choice as the first round draft pick who was not signed, but in the second round. For example, if a team cannot sign the seventh overall first round draft choice, it will receive the seventh pick in the second round of the next draft as compensation.


Marek Zagrapan was drafted in the first round and the Sabres signed him to an entry-level contract.  He proceeded to play for Rochester and Portland, vastly underachieving.  He failed to earn a spot with Buffalo, so he split for Europe.  Buffalo is not awarded a compensatory pick, because they signed Zagrapan to a contract.

In Kevin Hayes' case, he was drafted in the first round, and went to the NCAA, which delayed his requirement to be signed.  When he graduated, he and the Blackhawks failed to agree to an entry-level contract, making Hayes a UFA as of midnight (I think) tonight.  Because he went directly from 1st round selection to UFA, the Blackhawks are awarded a compensatory 2nd round pick.  In this case, it's 54th overall.

There's an expectation by hockey clubs that a player they select in the first round will agree to sign with them.  If they do not, then they're out a first round draft pick, which is a considerable asset and could be especially damaging to a franchise that's trying to rebuild (not Chicago, obv).  The estimated net loss of a first round pick and gain of a second round pick is estimated to be one or two second round picks or more, depending on how high that first pick is.  That's still a hefty setback in asset management terms.

In these recent cases of coveted NCAA players graduating and refusing to sign with their teams (see also Justin Schultz), it has been the decision of the player and not the decision of the team.  The CBA in this case was designed to prevent a total loss of a first round pick because a single player decides to snub the team that had an unrequited belief in them.

In the case of Hayes, PuckDaddy speculates on reasons why he may feel justified to bail on the Hawks:

Quote

There have been a lot of reasons for this decision by Hayes advanced, and a few of them sound fairly credible. He's a right wing, for one thing, and the Blackhawks have more than enough help on that side between Patrick Kane, Marian Hossa, Kris Versteeg, and Ben Smith. Further, Chicago had previously drafted Hayes's older brother Jimmy (a Toronto second-rounder) who spent a few seasons toiling in the Blackhawks system, not really getting a prolonged shot at the NHL, before being traded to Florida last season. Depending upon whom you believe, the divorce might not have been that amicable.

There's also the matter of Kevin Hayes probably feeling like he deserves at least a half-decent shot at the NHL, given that he torched college hockey for 65 points in 40 games this past season, playing alongside Hobey Baker winner Johnny Gaudreau, who had the single most impressive college season since Paul Kariya put up 100 points in 39 games in the early 1990s.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 15 August 2014 - 07:12 PM.


#18 shrader

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:30 PM

Ok, minor complaint here. I hate that they mentioned him in the same sentence as Kariya. He put up that 100 point season as an 18 year old FRESHMAN. Short of a near miracle, no one should be mentioned alongside him. At least not any modern day player.

#19 beerme1

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:14 PM

Who?

#20 wjag

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 04:03 AM

If a player refuses to sign a contract with a team like the Hawks, my guess is there is something else going on.  Stay away.

#21 Heimdall

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 06:57 AM

Well if he wants playing time, he can have a shot here, but like said above, calgary has a better shot sheeing his bc linemates.

#22 rakish

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 07:14 AM

View Postshrader, on 15 August 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

If I'm reading his age correctly, it would actually be a 2 year entry level deal, no more, no less.

Serves me right for reading Garth yesterday

#23 tom webster

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 12:34 PM

View Postrakish, on 16 August 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Serves me right for reading Garth yesterday

I used to think that in spite of his affiliation with Hockey Buzz, he had some credibility but he continues to post factual errors to the point that I rate him below about 20 people on this board as far as any insight or knowledge.

#24 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 04:39 PM

Garth overhypes every Sabres player. I like his passion but I don't think he's that great of a writer.

#25 LGR4GM

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:37 AM

Some information on Hayes and his possible destination plus salary info.

http://www.cbssports...meetings-monday

Quote

It's important to manage expectations, however. The reason Hayes is so attractive to so many teams has as much to do with price as it does his potential. The fact that he can be signed to no more than the maximum under the entry-level system, which would include a maximum base salary of $925,000, is a big part of what makes him so valuable.


#26 Heimdall

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:33 AM

Its surprisingly quiet on the buffalo front though, I've read that almost every NHL team has interest except ours.

Maybe Timmeh told him he has to earn a spot in the NHL :P

#27 Spndnchz

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

NY Rangers just signed him.

#28 tom webster

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:36 PM

View PostHeimdall, on 18 August 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Its surprisingly quiet on the buffalo front though, I've read that almost every NHL team has interest except ours.

Maybe Timmeh told him he has to earn a spot in the NHL :P

This may be an example of where the Harbor Center may pay dividends in the future and the Sabres are in mix for players like this.
On the other hand, few of these College free agents live up to the hype

#29 Taro T

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

View Posttom webster, on 20 August 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:



This may be an example of where the Harbor Center may pay dividends in the future and the Sabres are in mix for players like this.
On the other hand, few of these College free agents live up to the hype
True.

I also expect that items such as hosting the combine and the reffing center for excellence that Colie was speaking about on the radio while in town last week will help give the Sabres more clout w/in the league as they get both more interaction w/ the league's operations people and have greater responsibility for keeping the league running and would likely end up on more select committees at all 3 levels (ownership, gms, and coaches) as they take on more responsibilities.

Who knows, dare we say (dare, dare) maybe even a cabinet post MFT Status !

#30 Drunkard

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:18 AM

View PostTaro T, on 20 August 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

True.

I also expect that items such as hosting the combine and the reffing center for excellence that Colie was speaking about on the radio while in town last week will help give the Sabres more clout w/in the league as they get both more interaction w/ the league's operations people and have greater responsibility for keeping the league running and would likely end up on more select committees at all 3 levels (ownership, gms, and coaches) as they take on more responsibilities.

Who knows, dare we say (dare, dare) maybe even a cabinet post MFT Status !
For that to happen we'd also need to get lucky and draft the next Golden Child, Connor McDavid. I don't see it happening but I guess there's always a chance. Personally I'd be more than thrilled to have to settle for Jack Eichel but I guess we'll all have to wait for the season to play out.

#31 kas23

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:54 AM

View PostSpndnchz, on 20 August 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

NY Rangers just signed him.

He has an equal chance of ever making the Ranger's roster as he did with the Hawks. Looks like the decision not to sign with the Hawks was a spite move.

#32 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:02 PM

View Postkas23, on 21 August 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

He has an equal chance of ever making the Ranger's roster as he did with the Hawks. Looks like the decision not to sign with the Hawks was a spite move.

Probably because of his brother...?

#33 Potato

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:33 PM

He has a football name, he will never make it.

Too bad he isn't named Gord or Stu or Lanny.

#34 rakish

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:34 PM

It's a bit late, but I wrote about Kevin Hayes this morning, if you want to noodle with the chart, it's:

http://www.limedata.us/blog/b47.html

I compare Kevin Hayes to twelve relatively random recent NCAA players. I didn't use anyone that was very small, so no Gaudreau, no Grimaldi, they complicate the analysis. I understand that while big, Hayes is a scorer not a power forward, so I tried to avoid power forwards, but I don't know enough about each player so I may have failed on that point.

Based on their NCAA years, I would value the 13 in this order:
Toews
Jaden Schwartz
Gustav Nyquist
Brock Nelson
Reilly Smith
Drew Shore
Nick Bjugstad
Erik Haula
Chris Kreider - His big NCAA year was similar to Hayes' big year, but a year earlier
Chris Wagner
Kevin Hayes
Matt Frattin - His big NCAA year was better than Hayes' big year, but a year later
Brian Flynn

The players most comparable to Hayes are borderline NHL/AHL players. Therefore, I believe that signing Kevin Hayes would have been OK, promising him ice time would not.

Edited by rakish, 22 August 2014 - 12:38 PM.