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6/12/14 - WGR Staff Interviews Tim Murray

2014-15 Season NHL Draft Buyouts Analytics

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#1 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:18 PM

Sabres' Murray talks buyouts, the draft, analytics and more

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Had the opportunity to spend some time with Sabres GM Tim Murray and many topics were covered so let’s get to it.

Murray said there’s a strong possibility that they’ll use the compliance buyout on Ville Leino. Murray says they must still cross the t’s and dot the i’s and have one more conversation withy the owner about it. The buyout period starts either June 15th or 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Finals end and runs through June 30th.

Murray maintained that it’s going to take two drafts to build this team. He admitted they are not a Stanley Cup team this year so the draft has to be the focus.


#2 Claude_Verret

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:31 PM

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Murray also had a lot of very good things to say about how he and his staff use analytics. The GM said he didn’t use them until he got to Buffalo and has a full department that breaks it down for him.

Imagine that.  Blasphemy!

#3 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:57 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 12 June 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Murray maintained that it’s going to take two drafts to build this team. He admitted they are not a Stanley Cup team this year so the draft has to be the focus.

Time to start practicing.

Posted Image


TANK MkII.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 12 June 2014 - 03:57 PM.


#4 Tankalicious

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:21 PM

Tank on.

#5 PASabreFan

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:47 PM

One MORE conversation with Terry about buying out Leino? One MORE?! There shouldn't have been one, let alone two — or more.

I rest my case.

#6 pastajoe

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 04:58 PM

It is a lot of cash to payout to get rid of Leino. Maybe it would be better to keep him as the Tank Commander for another year. It's hard to find players that are guaranteed to not score.

#7 Tankalicious

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:11 PM

View Postpastajoe, on 12 June 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

It is a lot of cash to payout to get rid of Leino. Maybe it would be better to keep him as the Tank Commander for another year. It's hard to find players that are guaranteed to not score.

This option has been presented an denied potential 1.7 million times. This offseason is the compliance buyout deadline. If you keep him for an extra season just because you want to suck then you're going to be paying for it well into the time where you'd like to actually try and contend.

#8 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 05:50 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 June 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

One MORE conversation with Terry about buying out Leino? One MORE?! There shouldn't have been one, let alone two — or more.

I rest my case.

Surprised it took you this long.  You're either slipping in your old age, or tried watching the World Cup and fell asleep.

#9 sizzlemeister

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:24 PM

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Players must have qualifying offers by June 30th. After talking to Murray there’s no question in my mind that Tyler Ennis, Marcus Foligno, Chad Ruhwedel, Cory Conacher, Luke Adam and Matt Hackett will get qualifying offers.

Uh...what?  Adam?  God, no.  But I guess it's all about maximizing assets for him.  I just don't get how Adam + offer = maximizing assets.

Quote

Of all the goalies in the Sabres system it seems to me that Murray likes the future of Nathan Lieuwen the best.
  Absolutely.  And you guys had a field day with me when I said the kid has potential.

Quote

Here’s how it works, according to Murray: His scouting rankings rate players on a 1-7 scale, with seven being elite and one being the poorest rating. The reason it’s 1-7 is because of the number of standard deviations: Four being an average player, five above average, six a star, seven elite and the same for 1-3.

We can use this scale to rank posters here...



#10 X. Benedict

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:34 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 12 June 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

Uh...what?  Adam?  God, no.  But I guess it's all about maximizing assets for him.  I just don't get how Adam + offer = maximizing assets.

  Absolutely.  And you guys had a field day with me when I said the kid has potential.



We can use this scale to rank posters here...
No harm in qualifying Luke Adam. He provides depth for camp, and was Rochester's best goalscorer. It's not likely he has any trouble clearing waivers.

#11 dudacek

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 06:36 PM

View PostX. Benedict, on 12 June 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:


No harm in qualifying Luke Adam. He provides depth for camp, and was Rochester's best goalscorer. It's not likely he has any trouble clearing waivers.

Luke is going to fill the net on Grigo's wing in Rochester this year.

#12 PASabreFan

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:45 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 12 June 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

Surprised it took you this long.  You're either slipping in your old age, or tried watching the World Cup and fell asleep.

Ha! I might be the only one, but I still think it's an important question. If the owner has hired good people, what in the world can he possibly contribute IN MULTIPLE MEETINGS on the topic of whether Leino should be bought out?

#13 X. Benedict

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 07:47 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 June 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

Ha! I might be the only one, but I still think it's an important question. If the owner has hired good people, what in the world can he possibly contribute IN MULTIPLE MEETINGS on the topic of whether Leino should be bought out?

A check he needs to sign.

#14 dudacek

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 08:31 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 June 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:



Ha! I might be the only one, but I still think it's an important question. If the owner has hired good people, what in the world can he possibly contribute IN MULTIPLE MEETINGS on the topic of whether Leino should be bought out?

You are trying to convince him to throw away $18 million and admit his first big move was a huge mistake.

#15 Tankalicious

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 08:58 PM

View Postdudacek, on 12 June 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

You are trying to convince him to throw away $18 million and admit his first big move was a huge mistake.

"What is this, Tim? I don't need another piece of computer paper. I'm rich as ######."

"Actually, Terry, that's not a blank piece of computer paper. I printed out a visual representation of how many goals Ville Leino scored this season."

"Man, I ###### up, didn't I Timmy?"

"Yea boss, ya did."

#16 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:43 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 12 June 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:


  Absolutely.  And you guys had a field day with me when I said the kid has potential.




The dude's had 3 concussions already. Let's hope he has any career left.

#17 WildCard

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:00 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 12 June 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:



"What is this, Tim? I don't need another piece of computer paper. I'm rich as ######."

"Actually, Terry, that's not a blank piece of computer paper. I printed out a visual representation of how many goals Ville Leino scored this season."

"Man, I ###### up, didn't I Timmy?"

"Yea boss, ya did."
hahahahahahh. If this wasn't so long I'd take this as my signature

#18 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:20 PM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 12 June 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

Uh...what?  Adam?  God, no.  But I guess it's all about maximizing assets for him.  I just don't get how Adam + offer = maximizing assets.

Yeah, I did a spit take when I read that.  Maybe he'll just be a forever AHLer helping to get the kids ready to move up?

#19 thewookie1

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:48 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 12 June 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:



"What is this, Tim? I don't need another piece of computer paper. I'm rich as ######."

"Actually, Terry, that's not a blank piece of computer paper. I printed out a visual representation of how many goals Ville Leino scored this season."

"Man, I ###### up, didn't I Timmy?"

"Yea boss, ya did."

Hahaha. Well done

#20 nfreeman

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:06 AM

Does anyone know whether audio from this interview was posted anywhere?

#21 dudacek

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:49 AM

Don't think they taped it. Sounds like it was just Timmy and the Wgr boys in casual conversation in the Sabres war room.

#22 Jsixspd

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:51 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 June 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

One MORE conversation with Terry about buying out Leino? One MORE?! There shouldn't have been one, let alone two — or more.

I rest my case.

If I'm Murray, I print this out - http://sabres.nhl.co....htm?id=8474551   frame it, and hang it on Pegula's wall for his continued reference.   No need for further discussion, at least not with anyone with an IQ of 90 or more.

#23 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:48 PM

Tank on Buffalo, Tank on. It's all about McDavid and Eichel

#24 nfreeman

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:13 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 12 June 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:



Ha! I might be the only one, but I still think it's an important question. If the owner has hired good people, what in the world can he possibly contribute IN MULTIPLE MEETINGS on the topic of whether Leino should be bought out?

Please name another owner in the NHL whom you think would NOT be consulted by his GM on a buyout costing this much.

#25 Jsixspd

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:52 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 14 June 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

Please name another owner in the NHL whom you think would NOT be consulted by his GM on a buyout costing this much.

But how many times does it need to be communicated? It seems to me it makes more sense to use the buyout than pay him for doing nothing except setting a bad laughable example for the up and coming players.    

I wonder if it could cause internal strife if GMTM strongly advocates dumping this dead wood, and Battista/Pegula override him?

Edited by Jsixspd, 14 June 2014 - 06:53 PM.


#26 PASabreFan

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:22 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 14 June 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

Please name another owner in the NHL whom you think would NOT be consulted by his GM on a buyout costing this much.

I can't. Just like you can't say that there aren't owners who want no such consultation. Anyway, consultation, at most, should go like this: "Terry, we're buying out Leino. OK?"

Again, I ask — what can Terry contribute to the making of this decision? He's on record as saying he doesn't really care about the bottom line. Unless, that's changed, this is a hockey-only decision. And Terry's just a fan, and not a very good one.

Edited by PASabreFan, 14 June 2014 - 07:23 PM.


#27 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:42 PM

Did Pegula come out and say he wants Leino to stay and I missed it? Or are we just speculating?

#28 drnkirishone

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:20 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 14 June 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

I can't. Just like you can't say that there aren't owners who want no such consultation. Anyway, consultation, at most, should go like this: "Terry, we're buying out Leino. OK?"

Again, I ask — what can Terry contribute to the making of this decision? He's on record as saying he doesn't really care about the bottom line. Unless, that's changed, this is a hockey-only decision. And Terry's just a fan, and not a very good one.
so this is a you can't prove my point is right or wrong so that means I am right arguement.........

#29 PASabreFan

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:27 PM

View Postdrnkirishone, on 14 June 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

so this is a you can't prove my point is right or wrong so that means I am right arguement.........

No. The argument isn't about how owners typically run their teams — to me, it's about the smartest way to run a team. Yes, I imagine every owner is more involved than I want an owner to be. The way I look at it, my way would give the Sabres a distinct advantage over all the others. The best hockey people running things their way, without interference from non-hockey people.

Let's say I'm a Johnny Depp fan. I come into enough money to buy a Hollywood studio, with the reason for existence of that studio to finally get Depp an Academy Award. Do I sit in on meetings? Other than being a film lover, what can I add? Do I stop the director and suggest that maybe the lighting is better this way, or the camera angle is better from over here? No way.

#30 drnkirishone

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 14 June 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

No. The argument isn't about how owners typically run their teams — to me, it's about the smartest way to run a team. Yes, I imagine every owner is more involved than I want an owner to be. The way I look at it, my way would give the Sabres a distinct advantage over all the others. The best hockey people running things their way, without interference from non-hockey people.

Let's say I'm a Johnny Depp fan. I come into enough money to buy a Hollywood studio, with the reason for existence of that studio to finally get Depp an Academy Award. Do I sit in on meetings? Other than being a film lover, what can I add? Do I stop the director and suggest that maybe the lighting is better this way, or the camera angle is better from over here? No way.
and when the director sends you a bill that is something like 40% of the budget of the movie and tells you oo by the way that's not counting against my movie budget? it is his money he has the right to be consulted on something like this. it's not like we are talking about springing for free soda in the dressing room

Edited by drnkirishone, 14 June 2014 - 09:38 PM.


#31 PASabreFan

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:50 PM

View Postdrnkirishone, on 14 June 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

and when the director sends you a bill that is something like 40% of the budget of the movie and tells you oo by the way that's not counting against my movie budget? it is his money he has the right to be consulted on something like this. it's not like we are talking about springing for free soda in the dressing room

It's a hockey decision. If the end result of a bunch of hockey decisions is that Terry feels like he's losing too much/not making enough money, then he can fire the hockey people and start all over. Anything else is micromanaging, er, meddling.

#32 nfreeman

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:24 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 14 June 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

I can't. Just like you can't say that there aren't owners who want no such consultation. Anyway, consultation, at most, should go like this: "Terry, we're buying out Leino. OK?"

Again, I ask — what can Terry contribute to the making of this decision? He's on record as saying he doesn't really care about the bottom line. Unless, that's changed, this is a hockey-only decision. And Terry's just a fan, and not a very good one.

View PostPASabreFan, on 14 June 2014 - 09:50 PM, said:

It's a hockey decision. If the end result of a bunch of hockey decisions is that Terry feels like he's losing too much/not making enough money, then he can fire the hockey people and start all over. Anything else is micromanaging, er, meddling.

I can say that, and it's not a hockey decision.

#33 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:35 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 14 June 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

I can say that, and it's not a hockey decision.

Who's on the roster in the fall isn't a hockey decision? Managing the cap isn't a hockey decision? I'm afraid this time there's no bridging our differences.

Maybe I'm punishing Terry for not being the fantasy owner that existed only in my head in the days leading up to "Pegula Day." But he, not I, actually said things like, "If I want to make more money, I'll drill…" "I don't want to come into town and raise ticket prices" and "there's no salary cap on scouting and player development" etc.

To be sitting here three years (or four years, or four seasons, or 36 dog years) later and hearing that the GM has to have multiple meetings with the owner to decide whether to get rid of this piece of hockey scum, would have been unfathomable to all of us on the day the lord delivered us our Hockey Saviour.

#34 Claude_Verret

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:54 AM

Leino will be bought out. Can we save yet another made up reason to attack the owner until after the 1% chance that he isn't bought out happens?

#35 weave

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:36 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 June 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

, would have been unfathomable to all of us on the day the lord delivered us our Hockey Saviour.

Speak for yourself.   I would always expect the GM to get the owner's buy in for $10M roster decision.  this isn't a promotion form the Amerks we're talking about.  This is $10M with no return.

#36 X. Benedict

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:49 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 June 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:



Who's on the roster in the fall isn't a hockey decision? Managing the cap isn't a hockey decision? I'm afraid this time there's no bridging our differences.

Maybe I'm punishing Terry for not being the fantasy owner that existed only in my head in the days leading up to "Pegula Day." But he, not I, actually said things like, "If I want to make more money, I'll drill…" "I don't want to come into town and raise ticket prices" and "there's no salary cap on scouting and player development" etc.

To be sitting here three years (or four years, or four seasons, or 36 dog years) later and hearing that the GM has to have multiple meetings with the owner to decide whether to get rid of this piece of hockey scum, would have been unfathomable to all of us on the day the lord delivered us our Hockey Saviour.

sThe only reason this would be an issue is if the owner says no.
Tim Murray when he took the job said the advice he got from every gm when he took the job was to communicate with the owner.  It is hard for me to imagine that every GM wouldn't do the same thing. What GM would not account for 7plus million dollars?
Even if only a professional courtesy?

With your expectations I don't think any owner would be living up to standard.





#37 weave

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:08 AM

View PostX. Benedict, on 15 June 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

sThe only reason this would be an issue is if the owner says no.


Yup.

#38 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:26 AM

Got it. It's Terry's decision to make, but he can't say no. Perfect logic.

#39 tom webster

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:26 AM

View PostPASabreFan, on 15 June 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Who's on the roster in the fall isn't a hockey decision? Managing the cap isn't a hockey decision? I'm afraid this time there's no bridging our differences.

Maybe I'm punishing Terry for not being the fantasy owner that existed only in my head in the days leading up to "Pegula Day." But he, not I, actually said things like, "If I want to make more money, I'll drill…" "I don't want to come into town and raise ticket prices" and "there's no salary cap on scouting and player development" etc.

To be sitting here three years (or four years, or four seasons, or 36 dog years) later and hearing that the GM has to have multiple meetings with the owner to decide whether to get rid of this piece of hockey scum, would have been unfathomable to all of us on the day the lord delivered us our Hockey Saviour.

First, to echo Weave's statement, speak for yourself.
However, while I obviously don't agree with most of your continued narrative, I have always felt you make some valid points. If TP was forcing TM to have continuous meetings to convince him what he wanted to do, that would be a problem. What is likely happening though,  is that multiple meetings consist of two. There was probably an end of year meeting where TM laid out his vision for the off season and a second meeting upcoming where he will inform TP of his decision so that the owner of the company doesn't have to read it in the papers or hear it on the radio. I hate analogies but wouldn't any upper management person want to inform the CEO of any major budgetary decisions before said CEO heard it elsewhere?  
Forty years ago when owning a sports team was mostly a passionate hobby for some old money family, your vision may have made sense. Today, however, sports is a billion dollar industry where keeping the owner informed is important for job security.

#40 PASabreFan

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:27 AM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 15 June 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Leino will be bought out. Can we save yet another made up reason to attack the owner until after the 1% chance that he isn't bought out happens?

My "attack" has nothing to do with whatever decision Terry is going to come to. It's that he's making the decision in the first place.