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What if Tim Murray.....


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#1 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:28 PM

Would you be mad if Tim Murray decided not to bring in any major free agents this year and with their #1 pick this year let him stay in junior another season! This way it would almost guarantee us finishing again at the bottom. Me personally I'm on board with one more year of the tank netting McDavid or Eichel then all systems go to make sure Murray puts the best possible team on the ice. What are your thoughts?

#2 Tankalicious

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

No, I wouldn't be. There are other threads where this discussion could be/has been had.

#3 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:31 PM

Would I be mad?

Hell no.  We need (at least) one more year of hardcore tanking to properly accomplish our goals.

Free agency: We should bring in enough mediocre free agents to fill roster holes, and maybe some support players to be a part of the tank-to-greatness transition.  Theses players may or may not be part of the eventual greatness.  Ott and Moulson fit here as veteran support-type players.  If we pass on those guys to really, really tank hard next year, and wait to get UFAs next year or the year after, I'm not heartbroken.

Top pick: If our #1/2 overall needs a year in juniors to continue proper development, so be it- that's not an asset we can risk pooching.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 05 April 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#4 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:41 PM

Does it change if we get the Isles pick this year? Say we have the #1 and #4 picks?

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 05 April 2014 - 03:41 PM.


#5 Tankalicious

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:47 PM

View PostPromoTheRobot, on 05 April 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Does it change if we get the Isles pick this year? Say we have the #1 and #4 picks?

No. Because, by most accounts, Sam Reinhart is the only player that will have a shot at being an impact NHL player immediately. So whoever we would get at four would still be down for a year, at least.

#6 wjag

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:00 PM

Yes.

#7 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

No, I'm never on board with a tank. I'm especially not on board with doing it for one player. I like to have more baskets for my eggs.

#8 Tankalicious

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:10 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

No, I'm never on board with a tank. I'm especially not on board with doing it for one player. I like to have more baskets for my eggs.

So... Yes?

Also: yawn with this "one player" crap. There are plenty of good players already in the system. It's not all for one player. Try a new argument that makes some sense.

#9 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:40 PM

Depends on if the draft rules change.

#10 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:57 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 05 April 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

So... Yes?

Also: yawn with this "one player" crap. There are plenty of good players already in the system. It's not all for one player. Try a new argument that makes some sense.

Cut out the snark. Where did I say we didn't have good players in the system?

I'm sorry you don't like my opinion. Actually, no I'm not.

#11 BRAWNDO

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:28 PM

Yes.  A top three pick next year would solidify the Sabres as a very good to great team for years to come.

#12 Taro T

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostBRAWNDO, on 05 April 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yes.  A top three pick next year cwould solidify the Sabres as a very good to great team for years to come.
Or hopefully it SHOULD solidify them ...

#13 BRAWNDO

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:37 PM

View PostTaro T, on 05 April 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Or hopefully it SHOULD solidify them ...

Hope is all Buffalo Sports Fans have left... :flirt:

#14 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:40 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

No, I'm never on board with a tank. I'm especially not on board with doing it for one player. I like to have more baskets for my eggs.

For approximately the eleventy-billionth time, it's not all about one player.  It's about being in a position to get several high-end forwards (even if they're not the highest end), and then proceed to build around that foundation.

#15 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:45 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 05 April 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

For approximately the eleventy-billionth time, it's not all about one player.  It's about being in a position to get several high-end forwards (even if they're not the highest end), and then proceed to build around that foundation.

Yes, it's exactly about tanking for one player. Read the first post. Nobody said we would tank for McDavid, the hypothetical did, hence my position in a previous post.

#16 Tankalicious

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:50 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Yes, it's exactly about tanking for one player. Read the first post. Nobody said we would tank for McDavid, the hypothetical did, hence my position in a previous post.

The issue is that you could always say that you're doing it "for one player." Team results only reflect the selection of one first rounder. But it's also about positioning in other rounds, and just filling the team with the most talented players possible instead of just jamming a roster with mediocre veterans.

The strategy the team is currently going with has never been done in Buffalo sports history, if they continue with the tank through next season.

Edited by Tankalicious, 05 April 2014 - 06:50 PM.


#17 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:54 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 05 April 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

The issue is that you could always say that you're doing it "for one player." Team results only reflect the selection of one first rounder. But it's also about positioning in other rounds, and just filling the team with the most talented players possible instead of just jamming a roster with mediocre veterans.

The strategy the team is currently going with has never been done in Buffalo sports history, if they continue with the tank through next season.

Perhaps, but I was answering the OP.

Sorry, I'm just not on board with tanking for a top 3 pick.

We have more than enough cap room, more than enough trade bait. There is no reason why we need to suffer through another season like this.

Edited by JJFIVEOH, 05 April 2014 - 07:00 PM.


#18 Tankalicious

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:04 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

Perhaps, but I was answering the OP.

Sorry, I'm just not on board with tanking for a top 3 pick.

We have more than enough cap room, more than enough trade bait. There is no reason why we need to suffer through another season like this.

Do you actually think any combination of free agents from this weak free agent class and trades will allow this team to become a long-term contender? Come on...

#19 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:07 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 05 April 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:



For approximately the eleventy-billionth time, it's not all about one player.  It's about being in a position to get several high-end forwards (even if they're not the highest end), and then proceed to build around that foundation.

What?!?! This roster + Conner McDavid =/= Stanley cup? Blasphemy.

#20 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:08 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 05 April 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Do you actually think any combination of free agents from this weak free agent class and trades will allow this team to become a long-term contender? Come on...

We have 20+ first and second picks over a 5 year span and a surplus of D-men. It's called balance. Yes, you can have too many prospects.

#21 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:09 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

Perhaps, but I was answering the OP.

Sorry, I'm just not on board with tanking for a top 3 pick.

We have more than enough cap room, more than enough trade bait. There is no reason why we need to suffer through another season like this.

So you'd love a heroic run to 8th with the likelihood of either missing the playoffs or a 1st round exit.  We've see that movie before....over and over again. Same sad, miserable empty conclusion.

This is a new day and a new way.  FNC is fully on board, but whether you accept it or not is up to you.

Edited by 26CornerBlitz, 05 April 2014 - 07:10 PM.


#22 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:17 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 05 April 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

So you'd love a heroic run to 8th with the likelihood of either missing the playoffs or a 1st round exit.  We've see that movie before....over and over again. Same sad, miserable empty conclusion.

This is a new day and a new way.  FNC is fully on board, but whether you accept it or not is up to you.

FNC is fully on board? Who said it would be a heroic run to 8th? We've seen this movie before....... with a tired core, underachievers and consistent mediocrity, all compromised of veterans. If we saw it again it certainly wouldn't be with any of that.

There are more people that don't want to see another 30th place finish than you think, whether you accept it or not is up to you.

#23 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:18 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Yes, it's exactly about tanking for one player. Read the first post. Nobody said we would tank for McDavid, the hypothetical did, hence my position in a previous post.

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 05 April 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Would you be mad if Tim Murray decided not to bring in any major free agents this year and with their #1 pick this year let him stay in junior another season! This way it would almost guarantee us finishing again at the bottom. Me personally I'm on board with one more year of the tank netting McDavid or Eichel then all systems go to make sure Murray puts the best possible team on the ice. What are your thoughts?

TWO players! :P

Obviously they're the pie in the sky, but it's not like if we miss out on them we're relegated to mediocre prospects.

#24 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:21 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

FNC is fully on board? Who said it would be a heroic run to 8th? We've seen this movie before....... with a tired core, underachievers and consistent mediocrity, all compromised of veterans. If we saw it again it certainly wouldn't be with any of that.

There are more people that don't want to see another 30th place finish than you think, whether you accept it or not is up to you.

Those aren't the people who are making decisions about the direction of the team, so what they want or don't want is immaterial to the reality of what is actually going to happen. They and you can choose to accept it or not. There are 29 other teams to cheer for if they're that displeased.

#25 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:24 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 05 April 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:



So you'd love a heroic run to 8th with the likelihood of either missing the playoffs or a 1st round exit.  We've see that movie before....over and over again. Same sad, miserable empty conclusion.

This is a new day and a new way.  FNC is fully on board, but whether you accept it or not is up to you.

I agree with this. If you think getting a couple of free agents and a top 2 pick is going to put you in contention for years to come u are sadly mistaken. A player like McDavid doesn't come around every year unless you are Detriot and somehow find these players in late rounds. You look at most top teams they were bad for a few years got high picks and built around those picks. I understand that people are probably going to have to endure another bad year or two but it will be so worth it in the long run. I said many years ago these meaningless runs late in the season killed positioning and this could have been done awhile back.

#26 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 05 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Those aren't the people who are making decisions about the direction of the team, so what they want or don't want is immaterial to the reality of what is actually going to happen. They and you can choose to accept it or not. There are 29 other teams to cheer for if they're that displeased.

Whether management is setting this team up for another 30th place finish is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The original post was whether or not WE want to see it. Sorry if I'm trying to stay on topic.

#27 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:31 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:



Whether management is setting this team up for another 30th place finish is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The original post was whether or not WE want to see it. Sorry if I'm trying to stay on topic.

I started this topic and I know a lot of people aren't going to want to see it and go though another year like this but the real goal is next years draft. Yes it sucks being this bad but landing McDavid and Eichel makes it worth it.

#28 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:33 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

Whether management is setting this team up for another 30th place finish is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The original post was whether or not WE want to see it. Sorry if I'm trying to stay on topic.

Never complain about anyone else being snarky. :rolleyes:   But keep on complaining about the direction of the team to your heart's content and let's see where that gets you. :cry:

#29 Hawerchuk

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:36 PM

Heard they might change the draft rules next year?

#30 weave

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:38 PM

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 05 April 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

I started this topic and I know a lot of people aren't going to want to see it and go though another year like this but the real goal is next years draft. Yes it sucks being this bad but landing McDavid and Eichel makes it worth it.

I don't need to see another ###### year.  I want NYI to finish just high enough to persuade them to give us their 1st this year.  We get our two near the top of the round selections and get back to trying to win ###### hockey games.  I don't see why, if TM is the GM he's cracked up to be, he can't use the bonanza we've already acquired to turn this franchise around starting this offseason.  I I really don't.

#31 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:39 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 05 April 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Never complain about anyone else being snarky. :rolleyes:   But keep on complaining about the direction of the team to your heart's content and let's see where that gets you. :cry:

That's snark? My god.......... why don't you show me where I was complaining about the direction of this team.

Really, I'm touched that you all feel so inclined to gang up on me. I simply answered a question by saying I didn't want to tank again and the rest of you come running like you're ready to jump me. Not sure what the hell got into this group tonight. Doesn't seem like it's worth sticking around for.

Edited by JJFIVEOH, 05 April 2014 - 07:40 PM.


#32 weave

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 05 April 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Never complain about anyone else being snarky. :rolleyes:   But keep on complaining about the direction of the team to your heart's content and let's see where that gets you. :cry:

It's an internet forum.  Complaining about the direction of the team is pretty much the reason for its exsistence, no?


Gatdammit, don't make me defend JJFive0.  I don't want to take another shower.

#33 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:42 PM

View Postweave, on 05 April 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

It's an internet forum.  Complaining about the direction of the team is pretty much the reason for its exsistence, no?


Gatdammit, don't make me defend JJFive0.  I don't want to take another shower.

:lol: It's not the sole reason.  Fan forums exist for many reasons beyond whining when you don't like something.

Edited by 26CornerBlitz, 05 April 2014 - 07:44 PM.


#34 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:43 PM

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 05 April 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

I started this topic and I know a lot of people aren't going to want to see it and go though another year like this but the real goal is next years draft. Yes it sucks being this bad but landing McDavid and Eichel makes it worth it.

Thank you for a decent adult response. I respectfully disagree, I'm not willing to take that chance and see either one come down with a career ending injury and all this go to waste. But, that's just my opinion. I can see where you are coming from. Though with Nolan coaching, if there is even a slightest improvement in talent added during the offseason I just don't see this team finishing in the bottom 3.

#35 Tankalicious

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:44 PM

The changing of the draft system is irrelevant. The lower you go, the higher the odds at number one. That'll never change.

#36 DeLuca1967

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:45 PM

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 05 April 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Would you be mad if Tim Murray decided not to bring in any major free agents this year and with their #1 pick this year let him stay in junior another season! This way it would almost guarantee us finishing again at the bottom. Me personally I'm on board with one more year of the tank netting McDavid or Eichel then all systems go to make sure Murray puts the best possible team on the ice. What are your thoughts?
There are two separate questions here IMO.

1) Free agents.  Significant free agents, and by significant I mean those players with enough career left to make a difference in the future of this team. are not signing with the worst team in hockey. I'm sure there are UFA's out there that TM would consider, I doubt any of them would go beyond the courtesy of taking TM's call.

2) The last thing the Sabres want to do is take a top pick and throw them into the fire if they not ready.

In general, this entire "tank" idea has been overplayed and been worn out. They broke the team down and are now starting the process of rebuilding. Falling to bottom of the league this season was a result set in motion several years ago. This was a franchise barely hanging around the 9-10-11 range. Last place was not a steep fall. They cleaned house, drafting 1st this season as well as probably drafting high the next few seasons is all part of the rebuilding process. "Tanking" is a silly and inaccurate assessment of where this franchise was and where they are today.

Edited by deluca67, 05 April 2014 - 07:54 PM.


#37 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:48 PM

View Postweave, on 05 April 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

I don't need to see another ###### year.  I want NYI to finish just high enough to persuade them to give us their 1st this year.  We get our two near the top of the round selections and get back to trying to win ###### hockey games.  I don't see why, if TM is the GM he's cracked up to be, he can't use the bonanza we've already acquired to turn this franchise around starting this offseason.  I I really don't.

If you've been listening to TM, he's said repeatedly since he became the Sabres' GM that the '15 draft is key.  The team is most definitely angling for McDavid and/or Eichel in that draft regardless of who approves of the strategy or not.

#38 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 05 April 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Thank you for a decent adult response. I respectfully disagree, I'm not willing to take that chance and see either one come down with a career ending injury and all this go to waste. But, that's just my opinion. I can see where you are coming from. Though with Nolan coaching, if there is even a slightest improvement in talent added during the offseason I just don't see this team finishing in the bottom 3.

Why is it that you're willing to apply this reasoning to the draft, but not other players acquired through free agency or the draft?  By this logic, we shouldn't spend $50 million on a top-tier UFA, nor should we trade say 3-4 lesser pieces for a top-tier player.

#39 wjag

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:50 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 05 April 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

If you've been listening to TM, he's said repeatedly since he became the Sabres' GM that the '15 draft is key.  The team is most definitely angling for McDavid and/or Eichel in that draft regardless of who approves of the strategy or not.

Cave it for McDavid?

#40 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:52 PM

I don't ever want to be accused of changing the subject in any thread, ever again.

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 05 April 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Why is it that you're willing to apply this reasoning to the draft, but not other players acquired through free agency or the draft?  By this logic, we shouldn't spend $50 million on a top-tier UFA, nor should we trade say 3-4 lesser pieces for a top-tier player.

Neither of those requires going through another season like this one.