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What would it take to abandon the tank next year?


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#1 thewookie1

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:14 AM

As the title says.....

I'm thinking along the lines of, what I we end up with the 2 of the top 3 picks this year and thus we look far better next year.


More so..... what if we get the top 2 picks, do we try, do you think we could succeed at,  to strong arming Edm into giving us their 2015 1st and their 3rd overall in 2014 to get Ekblad?

#2 Peppy22

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:44 AM

I want mcdavid

I take another year of tanking for 20 years mcdavid

Edited by Peppy22, 09 March 2014 - 06:45 AM.


#3 wjag

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:10 AM

Players refusing to lose.

#4 Heimdall

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:14 AM

View PostPeppy22, on 09 March 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

I want mcdavid

I take another year of tanking for 20 years mcdavid

Don't know, everyone is raving about this kid, but he is still a kid, guess i'll go nuts about him when he is playing for the sabres but i just can't get myself to be interested in him much.
Youtube can't satisfy me in thinking he'll be our next saviour.

#5 Icehole

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:45 AM

View Postthewookie1, on 09 March 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

As the title says.....

I'm thinking along the lines of, what I we end up with the 2 of the top 3 picks this year and thus we look far better next year.


More so..... what if we get the top 2 picks, do we try, do you think we could succeed at,  to strong arming Edm into giving us their 2015 1st and their 3rd overall in 2014 to get Ekblad?

I think you have to go after Calagary's, Edmonton actually has enough talent to do better next year.  Why not though, can't hurt.

View PostHeimdall, on 09 March 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Don't know, everyone is raving about this kid, but he is still a kid, guess i'll go nuts about him when he is playing for the sabres but i just can't get myself to be interested in him much.
Youtube can't satisfy me in thinking he'll be our next saviour.
Watched the world junior championships.  The kid is immature, took a bad penalty, but he plays with a temper and has incredible skills and skating ability.  Yes he has some growing to do, needs not to get knocked off the puck so much.  But the attitude, he gets pissed when getting checked, along with his skills were something to see.

Edited by Icehole, 09 March 2014 - 07:52 AM.


#6 BRAWNDO

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:50 AM

View Postthewookie1, on 09 March 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

As the title says.....

I'm thinking along the lines of, what I we end up with the 2 of the top 3 picks this year and thus we look far better next year.


More so..... what if we get the top 2 picks, do we try, do you think we could succeed at,  to strong arming Edm into giving us their 2015 1st and their 3rd overall in 2014 to get Ekblad?

If you have the two top picks and want to abandon the tank, select Ekblad and offer EDM their choice of D Men for Hall or RNH.

I will admit I like your trade scenario better however.

Also I cannot see Snow giving the Sabres their first this year if it is the first or second overall pick.

#7 wjag

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:56 AM

View PostBRAWNDO, on 09 March 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

If you have the two top picks and want to abandon the tank, select Ekblad and offer EDM their choice of D Men for Hall or RNH.

I will admit I like your trade scenario better however.

Also I cannot see Snow giving the Sabres their first this year if it is the first or second overall pick.

I wonder if Snow even survives the off season.  That debacle of Moulson-Vanek has to have him on the hotseat.

Edited by wjag, 09 March 2014 - 07:57 AM.


#8 weave

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:06 AM

Jeez wookie, do you read the board?  We have a thread right here on the front page about this already.

#9 BuffalOhio

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:53 AM

View PostPeppy22, on 09 March 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

I want mcdavid

I take another year of tanking for 20 years mcdavid

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTELY AGREE.  He's the next Crosby - look at what he's done for Pittsburgh.  You have to have at least one player of that caliber to have a legitimate shot at the Cup.

#10 Eleven

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:27 AM

View Postwjag, on 09 March 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Players refusing to lose.

Yep.  There are 20 guys and a few coaches each night who are not on board with the idea of losing.

#11 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:43 AM

View PostEleven, on 09 March 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yep.  There are 20 guys and a few coaches each night who are not on board with the idea of losing.

Which is precisely why it's crucial to assemble a team that renders that desire irrelevant.

#12 Eleven

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:46 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 09 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Which is precisely why it's crucial to assemble a team that renders that desire irrelevant.

Or slip some Quaaludes into the pre-game meal.

Edited by Eleven, 09 March 2014 - 09:46 AM.


#13 Robviously

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:49 AM

View Postweave, on 09 March 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Jeez wookie, do you read the board?  We have a thread right here on the front page about this already.
We're going to have a new thread about this every day until we get some answers, dammit!

#14 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:01 AM

For me the tank will be officially over when the Sabres hoist the cup from the "kid commish".

Edited by Sabres Fan In NS, 09 March 2014 - 10:07 AM.


#15 wjag

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:03 AM

The only way to ensure it is to bring in non-NHL-level goal tending.

Edited by wjag, 09 March 2014 - 10:03 AM.


#16 bunomatic

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:19 AM

If the Islanders defer that pick to next year I'd expedite the rebuild and forget the tank next year.

#17 Claude_Verret

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:43 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 09 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Which is precisely why it's crucial to assemble a team that renders that desire irrelevant.

Exactly...tanking is NEVER about asking players and coaches to lose on purpose!!!

#18 Robviously

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:49 AM

View Postbunomatic, on 09 March 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

If the Islanders defer that pick to next year I'd expedite the rebuild and forget the tank next year.
Even if they don't.  If they give us their 1st this year and we can add two first-line type guys in the 2014 draft, I'd be pretty happy.

If the Sabres get off to an amazing start next season, I'm going to want them to continue.  This is our FOURTH year in a row of starting horribly for the first half of the season, which leaves our only options for the end of the season 1. getting a VERY high pick (still hasn't happened), 2. blowing the draft pick but still missing the playoffs, and 3. squeaking into the playoffs to get eliminated in Round 1.  It'd be nice to break the cycle and just want the team to win every single game again.

But if the Sabres start horribly again come October, you might as well root for the tank again.

#19 mjd1001

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:52 AM

View PostBuffalOhio, on 09 March 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTELY AGREE.  He's the next Crosby - look at what he's done for Pittsburgh.  You have to have at least one player of that caliber to have a legitimate shot at the Cup.

I'm not here to bash Crosby (he is a great player) but either he isn't as great as everyone thinks, or the NHL has changed in the cap Era where you need a more balanced team.  The Penguins are good every year, but you don't need Crosby for that. When he has been hurt, they have played almost as well (winning percentage).  Even with him, and Malkin (a league MVP type player), and a few other top 5 picks, they still only have one Cup....needed 7 games for that...and needed a few calls to go their way in the conference finals game 7 that year to even get there.

If the Sabres get McDavid, that is good, but getting him in todays NHL doesn't guarantee Cups....and not getting him doesn't mean you won't get cups. This team may be as good in the future, with just as much success....if they don't get him...but get 2 top 5 picks this year and one top 5 next year that isn't him.  With that said, I REALLY want the team to get a top 2 pick next year.

#20 weave

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:57 AM

View PostRobviously, on 09 March 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Even if they don't.  If they give us their 1st this year and we can add two first-line type guys in the 2014 draft, I'd be pretty happy.

If the Sabres get off to an amazing start next season, I'm going to want them to continue.  This is our FOURTH year in a row of starting horribly for the first half of the season, which leaves our only options for the end of the season 1. getting a VERY high pick (still hasn't happened), 2. blowing the draft pick but still missing the playoffs, and 3. squeaking into the playoffs to get eliminated in Round 1.  It'd be nice to break the cycle and just want the team to win every single game again.

But if the Sabres start horribly again come October, you might as well root for the tank again.

You and I are on the same page.  

Worst case as far as draft picks are concerned seemingly will result in two likely 1st line draft picks this year.  And this is on top of excellent drafts the previous two years.  I don't need to see a tank next season.  If they start out slowly, well, it's better to just tank. But if they start well, lets get some wins.

#21 DeLuca1967

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:04 AM

View Postthewookie1, on 09 March 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

As the title says.....

I'm thinking along the lines of, what I we end up with the 2 of the top 3 picks this year and thus we look far better next year.


More so..... what if we get the top 2 picks, do we try, do you think we could succeed at,  to strong arming Edm into giving us their 2015 1st and their 3rd overall in 2014 to get Ekblad?
They haven't even finished pouring the concrete for the new foundation and people are ready to move in.

Rushing the process will hinder future success. The Sabres are on the right track, the early part of the journey will be extremely bumpy, it gets smoother the further down the line they go.

#22 Robviously

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:12 AM

View Postweave, on 09 March 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

You and I are on the same page.  

Worst case as far as draft picks are concerned seemingly will result in two likely 1st line draft picks this year.  And this is on top of excellent drafts the previous two years.  I don't need to see a tank next season.  If they start out slowly, well, it's better to just tank. But if they start well, lets get some wins.
It's been so long since being a Sabres fan was simple and:
1) you wanted them to win every single game throughout an entire season (i.e. "just finish the tank" didn't apply)
and
2) you actually liked all the players on the team and just wanted them to do well rather than wondering when we're going to trade them and what we can get back

That's probably not next season but October 2015 seems realistic.

#23 3putt

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:31 AM

Correct me if I am mistaken, but wasn't there outcry for not rushing Z, Risto and Grigs this year?  The picks this year may contribute right away, but more likely will not join the big club.  So essentially your opening day roster will be constructed with what's on hand and the promotion of a few in the pipeline.  FA?  Forget it.  This is Buffalo and no FA worth a damn is signing on until there is a reasonable possibility of winning.  

So I think the tank is not over nor should it be.  By opening day 2015 there will be a much stronger group of homegrown talent ready to contribute with a strong pipeline to feed the big club as needed.  Then we can be a player in FA.

#24 Robviously

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:01 PM

View Post3putt, on 09 March 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Correct me if I am mistaken, but wasn't there outcry for not rushing Z, Risto and Grigs this year? The picks this year may contribute right away, but more likely will not join the big club.  So essentially your opening day roster will be constructed with what's on hand and the promotion of a few in the pipeline.  FA?  Forget it.  This is Buffalo and no FA worth a damn is signing on until there is a reasonable possibility of winning.  

So I think the tank is not over nor should it be.  By opening day 2015 there will be a much stronger group of homegrown talent ready to contribute with a strong pipeline to feed the big club as needed.  Then we can be a player in FA.
Outcry for *not* rushing them or outcry for rushing them?  After last season's Grigorenko debacle, I don't remember there being a ton of appetite for rushing teenagers to the NHL this season.

#25 thewookie1

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:37 PM

Actually I never meant what would you want them to do or if you wanted to end the tank, but rather what would have to happen that you'd give up wishing for the tank. Rob, answered to what I was trying to ask; what would the Sabres have to accomplish this offseason plus next season to get you to abandon tanking for McDavid.


AS for the Islanders deferring if in the Top 3, who knows at this point....

#26 Tankalicious

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 12:38 PM

Nothing. Especially considering that Reinhart is probably the only draftee that will jump straight to the pros full-time. Having two of the top three picks wouldn't change anything.

#27 BuffalOhio

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 01:14 PM

View Postmjd1001, on 09 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'm not here to bash Crosby (he is a great player) but either he isn't as great as everyone thinks, or the NHL has changed in the cap Era where you need a more balanced team.  The Penguins are good every year, but you don't need Crosby for that. When he has been hurt, they have played almost as well (winning percentage).  Even with him, and Malkin (a league MVP type player), and a few other top 5 picks, they still only have one Cup....needed 7 games for that...and needed a few calls to go their way in the conference finals game 7 that year to even get there.

If the Sabres get McDavid, that is good, but getting him in todays NHL doesn't guarantee Cups....and not getting him doesn't mean you won't get cups. This team may be as good in the future, with just as much success....if they don't get him...but get 2 top 5 picks this year and one top 5 next year that isn't him.  With that said, I REALLY want the team to get a top 2 pick next year.

I certainly don't disagree with you.  For once, I'd like the Sabres to get "The Guy" that everyone covets.  When is the last time that happened?  I respect Crosby as a player; he's an amazing talent.  I hate him personally; I think he's a crybaby and a whiner.  He's surrounded by a great amount of talent, for sure.  Even if they've only won one Cup, they've been in the mix every year since what, 2007?  EVERY year.

#28 3putt

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 01:54 PM

View PostRobviously, on 09 March 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Outcry for *not* rushing them or outcry for rushing them?  After last season's Grigorenko debacle, I don't remember there being a ton of appetite for rushing teenagers to the NHL this season.
That is the point.  The picks, should they be exercised, will not be on the roster immediately.  To field a po quality team you will need a few fas.  I don't think we can land true difference maker until the prospects get closer the nhl level.

Im in the minority I know, but a first round bow out with no shot at the cup is the same as not making it in the first place.

View Postthewookie1, on 09 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Actually I never meant what would you want them to do or if you wanted to end the tank, but rather what would have to happen that you'd give up wishing for the tank. Rob, answered to what I was trying to ask; what would the Sabres have to accomplish this offseason plus next season to get you to abandon tanking for McDavid.


AS for the Islanders deferring if in the Top 3, who knows at this point....
I thought i responded to that...but the answer is nothing.  I like what we have done in accumulating talent and would like that to continue through 2015.

#29 Potato

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:57 PM

I think you'll find that in any sport, there isn't one way to win a championship.  There are many routes to get there.  For every team that has won a cup by having one superstar carry them (e.g., the #1 overall pick) there are just as many teams that have won it with a "team" of very good players, a good system, and a good coach.  People are obsessed with losing on purpose around here because they think that is the only way for the team to become a Cup contender.  I can't disagree more.  If we get a superstar by chance next year, fine.  But, losing on purpose just for a better lottery chance at a single player should never be the preseason objective.

#30 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:49 PM

View PostPotato, on 09 March 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

I think you'll find that in any sport, there isn't one way to win a championship.  There are many routes to get there.  For every team that has won a cup by having one superstar carry them (e.g., the #1 overall pick) there are just as many teams that have won it with a "team" of very good players, a good system, and a good coach.  People are obsessed with losing on purpose around here because they think that is the only way for the team to become a Cup contender.  I can't disagree more.  If we get a superstar by chance next year, fine.  But, losing on purpose just for a better lottery chance at a single player should never be the preseason objective.

Who here has argued tanking is the only way to build a contender? If you think that's the argument, then you're misunderstanding.

#31 Potato

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:02 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 09 March 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Who here has argued tanking is the only way to build a contender? If you think that's the argument, then you're misunderstanding.

There is thread after thread about tanking.  It has become a broken record at this point.  One horrible season (this season) is enough for me.  Next year we start our triumphant climb back to respectability...

#32 krt88

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:37 PM

We've come this far, we can tolerate one more horrible year to have the chance at McDavid.  Lets face, nothing is guaranteed and could end up sucking and picking 3rd but t least we are doing what is right by the organization.

#33 Yuri Olesha

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:52 PM

What would it take to abandon the tank?  It would take a new owner of the Buffalo Sabres.  Since we're all friends here, let me tell you that we'd have to persuade the Grand Pegula of the Buffalo Sabres, that he is a loser.  We're going to have to install a winner at the head of the organization.  We will have to shed a top-down trying-to-lose owner, that is pervading every action that we make, off-ice and on-ice.  And we will begin to shed a top-down trying-to-lose mentality, that has pervaded every aspect of the organization, and has begun to corrupt the entire City of Buffalo.

Plan B, if there's no convincing Grand P. he is a loser, we'll have to angrily set our sights on Boca Raton, where the man behind the curtain is setting the course and giving ultimate direction to the tank.  We'll have to take every opportunity to embarrass and insult him, without overstepping the boundaries of good grace and humor.  When Ruff was fired, it was because of national pressure, kindled by local fire, and it will be the same with us chasing off Terry "the shackler" Pegula.  This isn't a tank, folks, it's a submarine, and the only way up, is by getting rid of the one man who is forcing us down.  #WINNING  






#34 inkman

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:21 PM

:rolleyes:

#35 respk

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:56 PM

To abandon the tank you'd need to replace Pegula and Murray.  It would be pretty simple after that.  

McDavid or any other single player will not get the team a Cup.  But McDavid/Eichel may be the star player that every team needs to be the best.  The Sabres have an opportunity to get that star player next year.  Then all of your other draft choices, trades and FAs make up the team that is able to compete for the Cup.

In order for the Sabres to position themselves to get McDavid/Eichel next year we are talking about 10-15 wins less than if they made the playoffs.  I'll trade 10-15 wins for the chance to draft McDavid/Eichel.

I just watched Kane make Ehrhoff and Ruhwedel look bad on the first goal tonight.  That is the kind of player that McDavid/Eichel are expected to become.

Edited by respk, 09 March 2014 - 06:57 PM.


#36 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:28 AM

View PostPotato, on 09 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

There is thread after thread about tanking.  It has become a broken record at this point.  One horrible season (this season) is enough for me.  Next year we start our triumphant climb back to respectability...

Okay, this doesn't mean that anyone has said tanking is the only way to build a contender.  Whereas one horrible season is enough for you, fifteen mediocre season is enough for many of us to wan to try a different approach than toiling around in the middle-bottom of the standings hoping some trade, draft pick, or free agent signing yields significantly better than expected returns.

#37 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:20 AM

How exactly does a fan, or group of fans, go about replacing anyone?  Especially, the owner of the team.

#38 LGR4GM

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

I would abandon the tank next year if the Islanders gave us the pick this year and we drafted Reinhart and Dal Colle.

#39 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:49 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 10 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I would abandon the tank next year if the Islanders gave us the pick this year and we drafted Reinhart and Dal Colle.

Even if the Islanders give us their first pick this year and we have 2 picks in the top 5 I don't know if management plays them more than 9 games. I think management is set on giving these players time to develop and I don't think Reinhart is as good as McKinnon so people thinking he will step in right away I don't know about that.

#40 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

If abandoning the Tank means icing a better roster than we currently have, I believe it is inevitable.

We are currently about $6.8M above the floor for this season. $3.3M of that is going to players who no longer play for the organization. The rest is Ville Leino.

We are at the floor right now. Spending to the floor next year after losing those freebe cap dollars and amnesty on Leino will inevitably make the roster better. Maybe not a winner, but better.