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The Tank is Done (Now we're just bad)


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#1 Numark

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:40 AM

I think it is safe to say the sabres have completely ripped apart the entire team for assets, and we are done.  Of course we will try to sell off rentals at next years deadline, but no more than any other team, and we are going to start actually considering resigning rentals instead of only wanting to trade them away.   I believe the sabres should try to do everything they can (without giving up picks/prospects) to get better starting now, including free agency (I dont mean go spend everything on old free agents.  I mean start picking out players you think can be part of this team for the next five years).  They are still going to be god-awful and in contention for the #1 overall pick next year now matter who they get in free agency, so this won't affect next year.  So by tank being done, i mean ripping apart this team, roster manipulation, etc. is over with because there is no more need.  This team is bad, and will be bad next year no matter what.  



So now that we have ripped apart our roster, where does everyone belong in the future?


I see it like this

xxx --- xxx --- xxx
Ennis --- Hodgson --- xxx
Foligno? --- Girgensons --- xxx
xxx --- Konopka? --- D' Agostini?

xxx --- Myers
Ehrhoff --- xxx
xxx --- xxx

Key C Prospects: Grigorenko, Larsson
Key LW Prospects: Compher, Hurley, Carrier, Possler, Deslauriers
Key RW Prospects: Armia, Fasching, Baptiste, Bailey
Key LD Prospects: Zadorov, McCabe
Key RD Prospects: Ristolainen, Pysyk, Ruhwedel

Not in plans: Stafford, lleino, scott, mitchell, mcbain, flynn, tallinder, sulzer, weber, stewart

Key 2014 Free Agents (30 and under): Thomas Vanek (LW), Paul Stastny (C.), Ales Hemsky (RW), Joni Pitkanen (LD), Milan Michalek (LW), Ryan Callhan (RW), Andrej Meszaros (LD), Kyle Quincy (LD), Dave Bolland (C.), Matt Moulson (LW), Jussi Jokinen (LW), Devin Setoguchi (RW), Mikhail Grobovski (C.), Matt Greene (RW), Nikolai Kulemin (RW), Steve Downie (RW), Matt Niskanen (RD), Derek Roy (C.), Mason Raymond (LW), Andrew Macdonald (LD)



Trade Recaps:

miller, vanek, gaustad, Roy, leopold, pominville, regehr, sekera, kassian, Mcnabb, McCormick, MAG, Brennan, Parker, boychuck, 2012 2nd, 2013 4th, 2014 4th, 2015 3rd, 2015 2nd (miller conditional), 2016 3rd (miller conditional)

For

Zadorov, Girgensons, Hodgson, compher, Larsson, possler, fasching, deslauriers, Hackett, mcbain, tallinder, florentino, Sulzer, pardy, neuvirth, Stewart, carrier, klesa, mitchell, Bailey, 2014 WPG 2nd, 2014 MIN 2nd, 2014/2015 NYI 1st, 2015 NYI 2nd, 2015 STL 1st, 2016 MIN 2nd, 2014 STL 1st (miller conditional)

Edited by Numark, 06 March 2014 - 02:02 PM.


#2 bunomatic

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:51 AM

A little premature in my mind. There'll be more bodies going out at the draft. TM has said as much so we're not done tearing down.

#3 Numark

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:55 AM

View Postbunomatic, on 06 March 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

A little premature in my mind. There'll be more bodies going out at the draft. TM has said as much so we're not done tearing down.

I mean I know there going to be getting rid of more people not in their plans, and getting assets for them.  But I think the focus is going to start shifting.  Players like ott or moulson could have been part of the plan, but we needed more picks/prospects.

Other players are still gonna go, but they are all depth players.

Edited by Numark, 06 March 2014 - 09:56 AM.


#4 bunomatic

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:56 AM

View PostNumark, on 06 March 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I mean I know there going to be getting rid of more people not in their plans, and getting assets for them.  But I think the focus is going to start shifting.  Players like ott or moulson could have been part of the plan, but we needed more picks/prospects.

got it.

#5 SDS

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:59 AM

I don;t agree. Stafford, Ennis, Myers, Ehrhoff... Lots of vet pieces that may move that aren't depth players...

#6 weave

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:06 AM

Tank isn't done.  It's looking like two more seasons of tank to me.  The core is gone though, so there is that.

#7 Campy

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:08 AM

I'm excited for the Draft.  Not just to see who the Sabres select, but to see if they go shopping - which I think they will - and who they acquire.

#8 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:13 AM

View Postweave, on 06 March 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Tank isn't done.  It's looking like two more seasons of tank to me.  The core is gone though, so there is that.

Who would have thought that Stafford would be the last one standing of DR's core.

#9 LGR4GM

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:14 AM

View PostCampy, on 06 March 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm excited for the Draft.  Not just to see who the Sabres select, but to see if they go shopping - which I think they will - and who they acquire.
I think at the draft a couple of those 2nd round picks will be moved for previously drafted players.

As for the Tank being done, that won't happen until later.  I think Murray might field a more competitive team next season but it appears the goal is to be bottom 5 next year.

#10 nfreeman

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:14 AM

I think Stafford, Stewart, Flynn and Weber are all on the team next year.

#11 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:15 AM

As long as Drew Stafford is here nothing is done.

#12 respk

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:32 AM

The tank has one more year.  Given the traffic Ehroff and Myers generated at the deadline I wouldn't be surprised if they were traded at the draft.  It all depends on the return.  Stafford and Stewart will probably be gone at the draft or at the trade deadline next season.  Ennis or Hodgson has to go at some time as they are too similar.

One more winter at Valley Forge.  Stay the course!

#13 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:39 AM



McDavid...Wow! :wub:

#14 LGR4GM

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:39 AM

View Postrespk, on 06 March 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

The tank has one more year.  Given the traffic Ehroff and Myers generated at the deadline I wouldn't be surprised if they were traded at the draft.  It all depends on the return.  Stafford and Stewart will probably be gone at the draft or at the trade deadline next season. Ennis or Hodgson has to go at some time as they are too similar.

One more winter at Valley Forge.  Stay the course!
:huh:  what?

#15 wjag

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:40 AM

Thank god!

#16 apuszczalowski

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:52 AM

Do people here not understand what the definition of tanking is? or have they made up their own definition now for something that already means something else?

Tanking is when a team goes into a season, or decides during one to lose games instead of win in order to obtain a high draft choice (uusually the #1 overall pick). Tanking typically involves gutting a team of its talent so that losing games becomes much easier.

This "Tank" is not done, its apparently far from over

#17 carpandean

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:05 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 06 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Do people here not understand what the definition of tanking is? or have they made up their own definition now for something that already means something else?

Tanking is when a team goes into a season, or decides during one to lose games instead of win in order to obtain a high draft choice (uusually the #1 overall pick). Tanking typically involves gutting a team of its talent so that losing games becomes much easier.

This "Tank" is not done, its apparently far from over

Yeah, we are setup to tank next year, as we should be.  TM might dip the plane a little lower - down to the treetops - for next year, but he should be preparing to start pulling up in July of 2015.

#18 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

View PostCampy, on 06 March 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm excited for the Draft.  Not just to see who the Sabres select, but to see if they go shopping - which I think they will - and who they acquire.

I'm super excited for the draft we should have a top 3 pick. We have enough extra picks to move up and grab another player or players that  Murray likes and then who knows what the Islanders do with their pick.

#19 Potato

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM

View Postcarpandean, on 06 March 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Yeah, we are setup to tank next year, as we should be.  TM might dip the plane a little lower - down to the treetops - for next year, but he should be preparing to start pulling up in July of 2015.

IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

#20 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:11 AM

View PostPotato, on 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:



IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

They'll be serviceable. But don't expect them to steal games like Miller did this year.

#21 Kristian

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:11 AM

View PostPotato, on 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The current roster spells B-I-G problem as a whole. No reason goaltending shouldn't match the standard of our skaters :w00t:

#22 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:14 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 06 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Do people here not understand what the definition of tanking is? or have they made up their own definition now for something that already means something else?

Tanking is when a team goes into a season, or decides during one to lose games instead of win in order to obtain a high draft choice (uusually the #1 overall pick). Tanking typically involves gutting a team of its talent so that losing games becomes much easier.

This "Tank" is not done, its apparently far from over

What people don't realize is that the complete gutting of the team will buy more years of Murray running the ship to get idea of how he wants the Sabres to be built. Part of me thinks the total gutting of the team is why LaFontaine resigned. I think he still wanted some key vets around and I have a feeling Black, the scouting department and Murray wanted to rip it all down and start the total rebuild.

View PostPotato, on 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:



IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I'm not worried about Buffalo's goaltending. When was the last time we had some serious goaltending issues. We always seem to find a quality goalie unlike teams like Philly

#23 Derrico

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:16 AM

View PostPotato, on 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I think that is by design with Murray.  If we're going all in on the tank we almost have to have below average goaltending.  If Miller wasn't here this season we would be a clear cut last place club rather than one that is just probably a last place team.  Don't forget, I'm sure we won't be the only ones tanking next year.

Having said that, I wish we had or I hope that Murray intends on bringing a very good goaltending prospect to our farm system.  Demko with the late first we would get if the Blues make the conference finals?

#24 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:17 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 06 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Tanking is when a team goes into a season, or decides during one to lose games instead of win in order to obtain a high draft choice

Correct.  The only thing the roster manipulation has done is make the Tank stronger and increase the reward for winning the tank war.  Nothing more.  If Ted Nolan decides he's going to get on the ice and start playing and it rallies the team into winning, that's not tanking, even if Torrey Mitchell's the team's leading scorer.

This war is far from over.



#25 dudacek

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:18 AM

The tank is done, in terms of the sell-off being over.
Being bad will continue into next year, but it will be the afterglow of the tank, not the result of any future deliberate moves to finish lower in the standings. It will take time for the seeds we've acquired to start growing.
And don't kid yourself, Murray will be trading picks and prospects for players if he can, as long as those players are 25 and younger.
And he will be signing free agents - not to win now, but to create culture, competition and show kids the way.

#26 wjag

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:18 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 06 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:



This "Tank" is not done, its apparently far from over

aw shucks.

#27 Numark

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:19 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 06 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Do people here not understand what the definition of tanking is? or have they made up their own definition now for something that already means something else?

Tanking is when a team goes into a season, or decides during one to lose games instead of win in order to obtain a high draft choice (uusually the #1 overall pick). Tanking typically involves gutting a team of its talent so that losing games becomes much easier.

This "Tank" is not done, its apparently far from over

You should read the topic :)

I said they have already gutted the roster and the team is bad enough so where tanking isnt even necessary for next year.  I think they can start moving in young pieces, bring in some free agent veterans they think can be part of the future, and start trying to get better.  Of course they are still going to move some depth players they don't think are part of the future, but the gutting of the team imp is done.  The exact definition you provided i addressed in that they aren't going int o next season trying to intentionally be worse and gut the team, they have already done it.  I think this is rock bottom.



this is worded better haha:

Quote

The tank is done, in terms of the sell-off being over.
Being bad will continue into next year, but it will be the afterglow of the tank, not the result of any future deliberate moves to finish lower in the standings. It will take time for the seeds we've acquired to start growing.
And don't kid yourself, Murray will be trading picks and prospects for players if he can, as long as those players are 25 and younger.

And he will be signing free agents - not to win now, but to create culture, competition and show kids the way.

Edited by Numark, 06 March 2014 - 11:20 AM.


#28 sizzlemeister

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:22 AM

The tank won't be complete until after the draft.  GMTM had said the draft is when the type of players he is after are available, so I think the sell-off won't be "over" until that day passes.  After that I would consider the tank over, and any player moves from that point aren't for stripping down the roster, but would be to rearrange it.

#29 apuszczalowski

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:28 AM

View PostPotato, on 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
I disagree, I think its better then some might think
Also what might help is that the defence wasn't really touched at all at the deadline, so although its not the best, theres still talent there to help out (Myers, Ehrhoff).
I think we will see decent goaltending that keeps them in games, but the issue is going to be without a Hasek back there to win 1-0 games, they won't get much goal scoring from the forwards so they would need someone who can give up less then 2 goals a game in order for them to win

View PostNumark, on 06 March 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

You should read the topic :)

I said they have already gutted the roster and the team is bad enough so where tanking isnt even necessary for next year.  I think they can start moving in young pieces, bring in some free agent veterans they think can be part of the future, and start trying to get better.  Of course they are still going to move some depth players they don't think are part of the future, but the gutting of the team imp is done.  The exact definition you provided i addressed in that they aren't going int o next season trying to intentionally be worse and gut the team, they have already done it.  I think this is rock bottom.



this is worded better haha:
The Tank is still not done until they start making moves to improve the current team, not the team a couple years from now. If they go into the season accepting that they will be bad in hopes of getting a top pick, they are still tanking. If they use cap space and picks to acquire players that will make them a better team with the intention of trying to get into the playoffs, then the Tank is over.

its quite possible that the gutting of the roster is over, but the tank is apparently far from over if the goal is McDavid or Bust

#30 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:37 AM

I think our goaltending will be fine. Murray also said they will be looking at college free agents.

#31 sizzlemeister

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:38 AM

Tanking and a roster purge are tied together: you tank because of the roster purge.  When the roster purge is finished, then I would say any intentional tanking is finished as well.  That's not to say that they can't anticipate being really bad while they reconstruct the roster, I'm sure they do, and the timing of that just happens to be during the season where being really bad will help them in the draft that follows.

Edited by sizzlemeister, 06 March 2014 - 11:39 AM.


#32 Crusader1969

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:49 AM

View PostPotato, on 06 March 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

IMHO, our big problem next year might be goaltending.  The tandem of Enroth/Neuvirth doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

PERFECT!! Why would I want great goaltending next year???

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 06 March 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:



McDavid...Wow! :wub:

If any Sabre fan questions why the Sabres TANK continues for 2015 - they NEED to take a drive out to Erie and watch McDavid. I've seen him play live in Kitchener and once online through OHL live and he is worth the price of admission and worth every second of this rebuild. Yes, we are not guaranteed to get him even if we come in Last but you need as many ping pong balls as possible.

#33 bob_sauve28

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:55 AM

I think they will add a few players in off season, a scoring forward and a veteran d man and compete for a playoff spot. Call me a pre-season optimist, but I don't think the team is that far off. They will finish 7th next year. And that just might make  a lot of people really angry

#34 LGR4GM

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:57 AM

View Postbob_sauve28, on 06 March 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

I think they will add a few players in off season, a scoring forward and a veteran d man and compete for a playoff spot. Call me a pre-season optimist, but I don't think the team is that far off. They will finish 7th next year. And that just might make  a lot of people really angry
They have the least number of goals for in the league and traded their last scoring winger.  They have the most shots against in the league and traded their franchise GT.  If this team finishes 7th or better next year I will send you a case of beer.

#35 apuszczalowski

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:03 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 06 March 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

They have the least number of goals for in the league and traded their last scoring winger.  They have the most shots against in the league and traded their franchise GT.  If this team finishes 7th or better next year I will send you a case of beer.
i would also demand immediate enshrinement into the HHOF for whomever is the coach of the team, along with Murray and every member of that team

#36 bob_sauve28

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:12 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 06 March 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

They have the least number of goals for in the league and traded their last scoring winger.  They have the most shots against in the league and traded their franchise GT.  If this team finishes 7th or better next year I will send you a case of beer.
Everything is going fine and some darn Sabre's fan throws some basic statistics at me, lol

:bag:

But for the record, I want a case of Southern Tier IPA :beer:

#37 nfreeman

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:13 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 06 March 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

They have the least number of goals for in the league and traded their last scoring winger.  They have the most shots against in the league and traded their franchise GT.  If this team finishes 7th or better next year I will send you a case of beer.

Well, if you put it that way...

I think a lot will depend on whether Risto, Zadorov and/or Pysyk are ready for prime time next year.

#38 thewookie1

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:14 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 06 March 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:


They have the least number of goals for in the league and traded their last scoring winger.  They have the most shots against in the league and traded their franchise GT.  If this team finishes 7th or better next year I will send you a case of beer.

I can see 1 scenario with this occurring; risto and Zadorov come up and along with Myers light it up. Armia and Grigs become such an amazing tandem in Rochester and it follows in Buffalo. Enroth and Neuvirth pull off what Crawford/Emery did last year and Stafford scores 30. Hodgson and Ennis have great years, Girgs becomes a consistent scorer and Ott and or Moulson resigns.

#39 MDFan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:27 PM

View Postdudacek, on 06 March 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

The tank is done, in terms of the sell-off being over.
Being bad will continue into next year, but it will be the afterglow of the tank, not the result of any future deliberate moves to finish lower in the standings. It will take time for the seeds we've acquired to start growing.
And don't kid yourself, Murray will be trading picks and prospects for players if he can, as long as those players are 25 and younger.
And he will be signing free agents - not to win now, but to create culture, competition and show kids the way.
Exactly the way I see it.

#40 sizzlemeister

sizzlemeister

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:28 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 06 March 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:



Well, if you put it that way...

I think a lot will depend on whether Risto, Zadorov and/or Pysyk are ready for prime time next year.


...and who they pull in during the off-season.


I do not think 7th is likely at all.  Pipe dream, even.  8th?  Depends on what they do.  The defense next season could be far better than decent without any roster additions - just current roster subtractions.  The key is what happens up front.

Edited by sizzlemeister, 06 March 2014 - 12:29 PM.