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6 Biggest Goons in Sabres History


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#1 Marvelo

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:08 AM

Here's food for thought. The Sabres have had some colorful goons through their history. Here's the top six. You can guess who's top goon...There are some omissions but narrowing it down to six is a tough task and I think generally they got it right. Missing: Jerry Korab, Bob Boughner, Kaleta, Brad May, Reggie Fleming, Mike Hartman, Brian Spencer, Lee Fogolin and Val James...



http://www.rantsport...sabres-history/

Edited by 716, 26 January 2014 - 10:17 AM.


#2 Eleven

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:25 AM

There is no way that Barnaby (pest, not goon) and Scott (too short a tenure here; if we're not considering tenure, than Maguire belongs) belong on that list over Jerry Korab.

#3 Marvelo

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:27 AM



#4 inkman

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:29 AM

Well this kinda sucks. Maybe the term goon is appropriate but I don't like it. None of the players you mentioned are actual goons outside of Val James. The website you linked shut my phone down. I'm guessing the names on the list are Ray, Scott, Peters and some old school guys.

#5 Eleven

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:31 AM

Well this kinda sucks. Maybe the term goon is appropriate but I don't like it. None of the players you mentioned are actual goons outside of Val James. The website you linked shut my phone down. I'm guessing the names on the list are Ray, Scott, Peters and some old school guys.


Schultz, Barnaby, Playfair were the other three.

#6 Marvelo

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:32 AM

Well geeze, didn't intend any trouble, should I take it down? I had no trouble with that site.

#7 Eleven

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:35 AM

Well geeze, didn't intend any trouble, should I take it down? I had no trouble with that site.


It might be different from a phone.

It's funny seeing Schultz and Peters on the same list. If goons were superheroes, Schultz would be Superman and Peters would be like one of the WonderTwins or something.

#8 inkman

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

There is no way that Barnaby (pest, not goon) and Scott (too short a tenure here; if we're not considering tenure, than Maguire belongs) belong on that list over Jerry Korab.

Yes. Barnaby, Kaleta don't belong on that list as they are your classic pest or rat. Boughner was tough but he could actually play a little as could May.

Well geeze, didn't intend any trouble, should I take it down? I had no trouble with that site.

It's my phone. The place I'm at isn't very Internet friendly.

#9 Marvelo

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:48 AM

So would define a goon as a big guy who can't play and is brought on for the sole purpose of beating the **** out of everyone? I think a goon can still be a pretty good player, like Korab. Maybe the smaller players should've been eliminated from that list. Also if I remember, Schultz didn't fight too much by the time he got to the Sabres.

Edited by 716, 26 January 2014 - 10:49 AM.


#10 inkman

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:55 AM

So would define a goon as a big guy who can't play and is brought on for the sole purpose of beating the **** out of everyone? I think a goon can still be a pretty good player, like Korab. Maybe the smaller players should've been eliminated from that list. Also if I remember, Schultz didn't fight too much by the time he got to the Sabres.


goon (go̅o̅n)
n. Slang
1. A thug hired to intimidate or harm opponents.
2. A stupid or oafish person.
[Probably ultimately short for gooney, simpleton.]

To me this means if you could play hockey, even a little, you shouldn't be classified as a goon.

#11 Marvelo

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:06 AM

Here's the origins of the word goon. A person called a goon may be one of two things: either a goofy, awkward sort of an individual, or a big towering bully or thug.There is a small controversy over the invention of the word Goon. Some say it was invented by cartoonist EC Segar with the character Alice the Goon and other say he just popularized it or re-defined it as a slow-witted professional bully.

http://www.wisegeek....n-come-from.htm

#12 nucci

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:19 AM

Korab was no goon. He was a talented player who could skate and shoot. Just happened to be big and a good fighter. To me a goon is someone with little talent whose only job is to fight......Ray for example

#13 Eleven

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:29 AM

Korab was no goon. He was a talented player who could skate and shoot. Just happened to be big and a good fighter. To me a goon is someone with little talent whose only job is to fight......Ray for example


Yes, but Korab could look at a guy and they guy would start crying.

#14 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:15 PM

This slideshow parading as a sports article is a great example of a Buffalo outsider* trying to write like an insider. Goon/tough guy/pest semantics aside, there's no way a diligent journalist describes Rob Ray as the biggest anything without mentioning that he's the #6 all-time penalty minute holder, inspired the Rob Ray Rule, and punched a fan. And if you're going to conjure Barnaby, it's worthwhile to do so in the context of faking of injuries during fights and constant death threats.

It's a good post, because it'll spark discussion, but I also realize that it'd be nice for someone to properly compile the completely zany antics and pugilistic achievements committed by these on-ice monsters/heroes.

edit: * Upon further investigation, this guy only writes about the Sabres, and has only been doing so since late December. So he's new at it. Additionally, rantsports is the poor man's bleacherreport, so journalists need not apply. Maybe he'll get better with time. Or not. Whatever.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 26 January 2014 - 12:28 PM.


#15 bunomatic

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:22 PM

Although Playfair was tough as nails and could play the equalizer in any situation that required fisticuffs I don't view him as a goon either.

#16 tom webster

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:24 PM

Korab was no goon. He was a talented player who could skate and shoot. Just happened to be big and a good fighter. To me a goon is someone with little talent whose only job is to fight......Ray for example


I agree completely.

Yes, but Korab could look at a guy and they guy would start crying.


But I agree with this as well.

Although Playfair was tough as nails and could play the equalizer in any situation that required fisticuffs I don't view him as a goon either.


And three for three

#17 We've

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:37 PM

Korab's reputation is bigger in Buffalo than it isoutside of Buffalo. Tough guy but not as tough as his rep with the home fans.

And Playfair was a decent defenseman,. He may have been the heavyweight champ for a bit but he really wasnt a goon in my mind. He did play a regular shift and did it compitently.

#18 bunomatic

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:40 PM

Maybe the thread title should be more along the lines of ' the toughest tough guys in Sabres history '.

#19 PromoTheRobot

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 12:56 PM

I saw Val James as an Amerk. He scored the winning goal of the Calder Cup final. Almost follows the script of the song "Hit Somebody!"

PTR

Edited by PromoTheRobot, 26 January 2014 - 12:58 PM.


#20 tom webster

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:06 PM

Korab's reputation is bigger in Buffalo than it isoutside of Buffalo. Tough guy but not as tough as his rep with the home fans.

And Playfair was a decent defenseman,. He may have been the heavyweight champ for a bit but he really wasnt a goon in my mind. He did play a regular shift and did it compitently.


Actually I never thought of Korab as tough. Maybe the greatest puncher but I always thought he could have been great if he was tougher to play against. Punch wanted to make him a forward but he never developed the d-man to take his place.

#21 We've

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:35 PM

And Kevin Maguire deserves mention on this list. Undersized, took on all comers, and a little nuts. He was toughness on teams that had very little of it.

#22 Marvelo

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:43 PM

So the definition of goon is single-dimensional/big/great fighter/can't play? Then Ray was only 6' tall/222 lb. But he was an enforcer. I think there's a difference between enforcer and goon. Somebody help me here.

#23 deluca67

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:53 PM

Not ever player who drops the gloves is a "goon". "Goon", IMO, represents a void of hockey talent. Barnaby, Kaleta, Fogolin and Korab do not qualify. Even Mike Hartman put up 43 goals during his NHL career. Goons are players like Scott and Peters and a lessor extent Rob Ray.

So the definition of goon is single-dimensional/big/great fighter/can't play? Then Ray was only 6' tall/222 lb. But he was an enforcer. I think there's a difference between enforcer and goon. Somebody help me here.

"Enforcer" is a goon that plays for your team. Once traded they go back to being a goon.

#24 Eleven

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 02:00 PM

Not ever player who drops the gloves is a "goon". "Goon", IMO, represents a void of hockey talent. Barnaby, Kaleta, Fogolin and Korab do not qualify. Even Mike Hartman put up 43 goals during his NHL career. Goons are players like Scott and Peters and a lessor extent Rob Ray.


"Enforcer" is a goon that plays for your team. Once traded they go back to being a goon.


Schultz had 20 in a season once, but was the very definition of a goon.

And agreed on goon/enforcer; nice observation there.

#25 deluca67

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

Schultz had 20 in a season once, but was the very definition of a goon.

And agreed on goon/enforcer; nice observation there.

Should Bob Probert be considered a "goon?" A 163 career goals would indicate he brought more to the rink than just a pair of fists.

You are right with Schultz. He and players like Semenko ended their careers with more than just a handful of goals. I think Hartman fits in with these players.

#26 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 02:20 PM

Should Bob Probert be considered a "goon?" A 163 career goals would indicate he brought more to the rink than just a pair of fists.

You are right with Schultz. He and players like Semenko ended their careers with more than just a handful of goals. I think Hartman fits in with these players.


Right...Domi, Chris Nilan....they had talent.

When I think of a goon for the Sabres, it is someone who didn't have enough talent to play in the NHL, but in their time there, managed to contribute no offense, and plenty of fights and penalty minutes. Guys like Playfair and Korab could play...even someone like Boughner to an extent. Goons....Steve Dykstra, Bob Halkidis, Brad Miller....average 3-5 penalty minutes a game, get called up in a pinch or for a rivalry game....but really add nothing else.

#27 flomoe

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:38 AM

Bruce Shoebottom is the definition of the word "Goon".
I believe he was in the Sabres organization at one time but unsure if he played for them. He definitely got the Goon title from his days as a Bruin.

#28 Sabre Dance

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 03:17 PM

Schultz had 20 in a season once, but was the very definition of a goon.


Yes, when he played for the Flyers. By the time he wore the Blue and Gold...not so much. Just a tough guy on the tail end of his career.

So would define a goon as a big guy who can't play and is brought on for the sole purpose of beating the **** out of everyone? I think a goon can still be a pretty good player, like Korab. Maybe the smaller players should've been eliminated from that list. Also if I remember, Schultz didn't fight too much by the time he got to the Sabres.


Very true - unfortunately, his reputation followed him here and he took a number of barely-deserved penalties.

#29 X. Benedict

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:13 PM

6 Sabres Goons - useless other than fighting ability.......hmmmmm.......

Boulton, Peters, Hartman, Maquire, Halkidis, Scott.........all come to mind.




I'm reluctant to put Playfair, Korab, and even Ray into that group.


Oh Dykstra.....though I forget his first name.

Edited by X. Benedict, 27 January 2014 - 06:15 PM.


#30 Eleven

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:15 PM

6 Sabres Goons - useless other than fighting ability.......hmmmmm.......

Boulton, Peters, Hartman, Maquire, Halkidis, Scott.........all come to mind.




I'm reluctant to put Playfair, Korab, and even Ray into that group.


Oh Dykstra.....though I forget his first name.


Steve, not Lenny.

#31 Taro T

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:29 PM

6 Sabres Goons - useless other than fighting ability.......hmmmmm.......

Boulton, Peters, Hartman, Maquire, Halkidis, Scott.........all come to mind.




I'm reluctant to put Playfair, Korab, and even Ray into that group.


Oh Dykstra.....though I forget his first name.

Val James
Brad Miller
Kevin Maguire
Eric Boulton
Jim Korn
Andy Peters

#32 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:34 PM

Jim Hofford?
Gord Donnelly?
Rumun Ndur?

#33 Taro T

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:37 PM

Jim Hofford?
Gord Donnelly?
Rumun Ndur?

DONNELLY!!!

I KNEW there was one from the very early '90's I was forgetting. :thumbsup:

#34 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 12:31 AM

DONNELLY!!!

I KNEW there was one from the very early '90's I was forgetting. :thumbsup:


Donnelly could play some defense though...he trends towards enforcer.

And Kevin Maguire had a skillset. He was built like Barnaby or Kaleta, so it's hard to call him a goon. Although he did get traded for Jay Wells...

#35 nucci

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:55 AM

Yes, but Korab could look at a guy and they guy would start crying.

Good point.

How is Ray getting a pass here? His only job was to fight.

#36 We've

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:03 AM

Good point.

How is Ray getting a pass here? His only job was to fight.


Yeah, I agree. Rayzor was the epitome of goon.

#37 X. Benedict

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 06:39 AM

Jim Hofford?
Gord Donnelly?
Rumun Ndur?


Of course - Donnelly! nice one.

Donnelly could play some defense though...he trends towards enforcer.

And Kevin Maguire had a skillset. He was built like Barnaby or Kaleta, so it's hard to call him a goon. Although he did get traded for Jay Wells...


Wells is one.

Good point.

How is Ray getting a pass here? His only job was to fight.


Just a soft spot, really. :)

#38 Eleven

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:10 AM

Good point.

How is Ray getting a pass here? His only job was to fight.


Maybe because he was #1 on the list in the original post, so there's not much to discuss.

Edited by Eleven, 28 January 2014 - 08:11 AM.


#39 SHAAAUGHT!!!

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:30 AM

I like Andrew Peters as a person, but he was a boring fighter. Grab, hold, maybe fire 2 punches, and then someone falls down. Brad May or Bobby B should have made this list over Peters.

#40 inkman

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 08:53 AM

I like Andrew Peters as a person, but he was a boring fighter. Grab, hold, maybe fire 2 punches, and then someone falls down. Brad May or Bobby B should have made this list over Peters.

The list isn't best fighter, it's biggest goons. Peters, despite his infuriating style, is the very definition of a goon. Not a very good one, but one none the less.

The bougieman and May Day could actually play hockey.