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Grigorenko refuses (but then) goes back to Juniors


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#41 TrueBlueGED

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:15 PM

Joe Thornton


My post was quite sarcastic. Sorry for the lack of emoticon to make it clear :)

Even if that's true (and you're almost certainly right), it's just a total dick move. Yes, the Sabres suck but he's in no position to demand anything over the veterans on the team.


Agreed. I'm still not dumping him for nothing though.

#42 Eleven

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:16 PM

Since that thread is about Grigorenko being a bust but this is about a significant roster move it probably deserves it's own thread.



I'm not sure that matters. The goal is to develop a young scoring talent. Is playing with this train wreck really going to help him?

Although perhaps he thinks he should be here. I'm not sure I agree.


I think it will help him more than playing in Quebec will, although I think Rochester would be ideal.

#43 MILFHUNTER#518

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:16 PM

So long term, are we saying Dagostini will be a part of our future? Or Ulmark? If we are out of options play him here with talent and let him learn. We are trying to get the top pick not a playoff spot. I would hate to think Murray feels he needs to undo everything just to prove a point. This is the situation he inherited, live with it for a couple of months. -3PUTT


Why not undo all of the failing agenda, what have we to lose? We are definitely not making the playoffs...

#44 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:17 PM

You have Ristolainen and Zadorov being good soldiers...you are about to have at least 3 high draft picks to negotiate with the next 2 years....you can't let some kid, especially one who hasn't looked the part, make any demands of you.

He's gotta go, and go fast. Some team will give you a 2nd a year out for the risk. Or you tag him on to get rid of a Stafford or Lieno.



#45 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:20 PM

If he doesn't want to go to the Q then trade him. I'm almost tired of hearing his name.

You have Ristolainen and Zadorov being good soldiers...you are about to have at least 3 high draft picks to negotiate with the next 2 years....you can't let some kid, especially one who hasn't looked the part, make any demands of you.

He's gotta go, and go fast. Some team will give you a 2nd a year out for the risk. Or you tag him on to get rid of a Stafford or Lieno.


Let's do it. It'll be fun!

I think it will help him more than playing in Quebec will, although I think Rochester would be ideal.


Rochester would be ideal. He can suffer in the Q for a few months if he's a man.

#46 Hoss

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:21 PM

You have Ristolainen and Zadorov being good soldiers...you are about to have at least 3 high draft picks to negotiate with the next 2 years....you can't let some kid, especially one who hasn't looked the part, make any demands of you.

He's gotta go, and go fast. Some team will give you a 2nd a year out for the risk. Or you tag him on to get rid of a Stafford or Lieno.


The situations are quite different from Zadorov and Risto. Risto is eligible to play in the AHL and is. Zadorov was never considered an NHL-ready player until he saw the ice, but it's likely that there was never any chance that he stayed up either way.

#47 spndnchz

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

Nolan: "He was a little bit upset I imagine but this is non-negotiable. It's one of those things that has to be done."

#48 nfreeman

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:37 PM

That's possible, but chances are he's not ready for the KHL either.

It's less than half a season. He's 19. He needs to contain his ego, and do what he's told.

He's not an NHL player. He should know the Sabres have no other options than send him back to juinors.


I think the KHL would snap him up in a heartbeat. I agree 100% with the rest of your post though -- and the fact that he knows the Sabres have no other options means that this is likely his (or his agent's) way of pushing for a trade.

Can't see any way this helps the kid, or puts him in the good books of his new boss.


I agree with this too -- all this does is cement his reputation as a troublemaker -- which hurts any trade return the Sabres will get for him.


I dont get this. I know there is a new sheriff in town, and Coho is ready to come back, but how does having the kid play against better competition hurt the tank? I understand that minutes are better than no minutes, but we aren't making a playoff run. Give the kid some linemates and let him take his lumps.


First, I think many hockey people think that generally playing a kid in the NHL too early hurts his development.

Second, and more importantly, it's not about what's best for Griggy. It's about what's best for the Sabres. They have made an organizational decision that each kid needs to earn his ice time, and if that doesn't happen, it undercuts the critical first stage of the rebuild, which is instilling a work ethic and an attitude of accountability.

Do you think that Griggy has earned NHL ice time? I sure don't.

I think I have seen all I need to see of this kid, even despite the mishandling on the sabres part...


I'm not quite there but I can see it from here.

He's being asked the do the only job he's proven he can do. He's also 19 years old and being wildly overpaid to do it.

He should STFU and go play in Quebec for a few more months. I'm sure his teammates in Buffalo are thrilled to learn that he should get some of their playing time due to his imaginary list of NHL accomplishments.


I agree with all of this. Good call on the bolded part.

APB....he's yours to the first team that puts up a 2015 2nd round pick.....

You have Ristolainen and Zadorov being good soldiers...you are about to have at least 3 high draft picks to negotiate with the next 2 years....you can't let some kid, especially one who hasn't looked the part, make any demands of you.

He's gotta go, and go fast. Some team will give you a 2nd a year out for the risk. Or you tag him on to get rid of a Stafford or Lieno.


They certainly can't cave and keep him with Buffalo -- and I think there is zero chance of that happening.

They'll probably read the riot act to Grossman, who will convey the message to Griggy. At that point, Griggy will either (i) decide to sit out or (ii) try to go to the KHL.

I think there is an agreement in place now with the KHL under which the KHL can't take him -- but I wouldn't be surprised if they breached the agreement and took him anyway. If that happens, he's gone forever. If not, he'll either cave and report to juniors or sit out and try to force a trade. If that happens, the Sabres will either trade him or let him rot to teach him a lesson. I'd be fine with either approach.

Edited by nfreeman, 11 January 2014 - 03:41 PM.


#49 BuffaninATL

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

Since that thread is about Grigorenko being a bust but this is about a significant roster move it probably deserves it's own thread.



I'm not sure that matters. The goal is to develop a young scoring talent. Is playing with this train wreck really going to help him?

Although perhaps he thinks he should be here. I'm not sure I agree.



thanks d4rk, that's what I had in mind ....

#50 inkman

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:59 PM

https://m.facebook.c..._user=502860565

#51 Wyldnwoody44

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:03 PM

Thanks darcy.... Now shut up grigo and play In Quebec.... I hate spoiled athletes, wanhhh I don't wanna play juniors, suck it up, you make more money in 2 years thanI will in 20 years

#52 nobody

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:12 PM

Did he have to go back today? Tell him he is playing 20 minutes in each of the next 3 games. If he shows his all around game deserves to be on the team then he stays as long as he keeps it up. If he doesn't show it then he goes down.

Of course looking at that list of possible current linemates he would have to do all of the scoring.

#53 HopefulFuture

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:16 PM

No surprise really. Anyone who is calling this kid wrong, or this move a dick move by him, obviously wasn't paying attention to him in his post draft interviews. The kid had no intention of staying in the Q come this season no matter what.

I believe the kid is right by the way. It's an insult to send him to the Q, organization be dammed or not.

Play him, his learning curve will be a bit heavier, but I mean really, what's all the fuss about? It's not like he threatens the tank, and as for those talking about the vets and all earning their spots, I mean come on man, a team filled with 3rd and 4th liners, most secondary 3rd and 4th liners, not even primary. It's time to put the big boy pants on and realize Grigo's being in a Sabres uniform effects him in no way and the tank in no way. Let him play.

#54 wjag

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:16 PM

New Sabres making the same dumb moves as the old Sabres. If this was TM's first move, he botched it.

#55 Peter

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:20 PM

TM did say that he wanted guys who wanted to play for the Sabres.

Perhaps, this is not exactly how he meant it.

#56 TheMatrix31

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:22 PM

This punk needs to be traded. No room for guys with this mentality on the team. Garbage.

#57 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:23 PM

New Sabres making the same dumb moves as the old Sabres. If this was TM's first move, he botched it.


Grigorenko is not ready for the NHL. What part of this is not getting through to people?

#58 HopefulFuture

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:26 PM

Grigorenko is not ready for the NHL. What part of this is not getting through to people?


Let me see...............

Oh yea, the part where "YOU" claim he isn't ready for the NHL all the while 2/3rd's of the current roster on the Buffalo Sabres isn't worthy enough to step out on the ice.

I don't get why some people see Grig's playing up here as a negative, it only enhances his development, not hinder it. And in no way does it threaten the tank.

#59 BuffaninATL

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

https://m.facebook.c..._user=502860565


interesting comments there

#60 kas23

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

I can see it from both sides. He's signed a professional contract, he needs to abide by it. That said, I don't quite understand why Nolan says he should be demoted because he's not going to develop sitting in the press box. I mean, Nolan's acting like his hands are tied and he has no option but to let him sit. Why doesn't Nolan earn his coaching job by putting forth the effort to get this kid ready to play? Plus, the season's half-over. If he's still stinking up the joint, he can go to Rochester next year.

#61 Eleven

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:28 PM

Did he have to go back today? Tell him he is playing 20 minutes in each of the next 3 games. If he shows his all around game deserves to be on the team then he stays as long as he keeps it up. If he doesn't show it then he goes down.

Of course looking at that list of possible current linemates he would have to do all of the scoring.


This would have been a good idea, I think.

#62 wjag

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:29 PM

Grigorenko is not ready for the NHL. What part of this is not getting through to people?


I disagree. What part of that is not getting through :w00t:

#63 kas23

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

Grigorenko is not ready for the NHL. What part of this is not getting through to people?


The Sabres are in last place. Half the team is obviously isn't NHL ready. Plus, it seems as if last place is desired anyhow.

Edited by kas23, 11 January 2014 - 04:32 PM.


#64 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

Let me see...............

Oh yea, the part where "YOU" claim he isn't ready for the NHL all the while 2/3rd's of the current roster on the Buffalo Sabres isn't worthy enough to step out on the ice.

I don't get why some people see Grig's playing up here as a negative, it only enhances his development, not hinder it. And in no way does it threaten the tank.


You're confusing "not ready" with "not that good".

#65 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:33 PM

The Sabres are in last place. Half the team is obviously isn't NHL ready. Plus, it seems as if last place is desired anyhow.


See above.

#66 TheMatrix31

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:33 PM

The Sabres are in last place. Half the team is obviously isn't NHL ready. Plus, it seems as if last place is desired anyhow.


Doesn't matter. Especially now, you don't put someone with this attitude on the NHL roster.

#67 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:34 PM

I disagree. What part of that is not getting through :w00t:


I guess maybe he could score in a shootout. What else can he do?

#68 Hoss

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:34 PM

I hope his agent talks some sense into him, kid will be blackballed by other NHL teams over a dick move like this...


It's likely his agent that is advising him in this decision making process.

#69 nfreeman

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:34 PM

New Sabres making the same dumb moves as the old Sabres. If this was TM's first move, he botched it.


How so?

#70 MILFHUNTER#518

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:35 PM

On the bright side, at least we can find out his true and troubling character flaws now before dumping millions into him after his rookie contract expires

#71 wjag

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:36 PM

Did he have to go back today? Tell him he is playing 20 minutes in each of the next 3 games. If he shows his all around game deserves to be on the team then he stays as long as he keeps it up. If he doesn't show it then he goes down.

Of course looking at that list of possible current linemates he would have to do all of the scoring.


Agreed. These are the Sabres, some will be broke/broken soon anyway.

#72 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:37 PM

You know what, screw it. Play him. Put him on the first line. Let him get his ass kicked by men. I want to see it.

#73 kas23

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:44 PM

See above.


Ok, I'll bite. Exactly what is the difference between "not ready" and "not good"?

#74 inkman

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

You know what, screw it. Play him. Put him on the first line. Let him get his ass kicked by men. I want to see it.

I know this is half serious but I doubt he ever plays for the Sabres. Murray isn't going to be shown up by a snot nosed kid you got his bwanke taken away.

#75 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:48 PM

Ok, I'll bite. Exactly what is the difference between "not ready" and "not good"?


A player who is not ready is a player who has potential to be good. A player who is not good no longer has that potential. Playing Grigorenko in this situation as a player who is not ready means that he will also not be good. What is the benefit of playing a kid who isn't ready with players who aren't good?

I know this is half serious but I doubt he ever plays for the Sabres. Murray isn't going to be shown up by a snot nosed kid you got his bwanke taken away.


I sure hope so. But part of me would love to see Grigorenko self destruct.

#76 wjag

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:51 PM

How so?


If you are trying to change the culture and the perceived culture of the worst team in the NHL and the worst team in franchise history, do you think it makes sense to tarnish the image of your first round draft pick and your club? The same draft pick that just showed the world he's got game. 36 hours ago, the new GM said he was going to make bold moves. Continuing the poor handling of one of your top prospects is not a bold move. I've seen others opine on here that this would be viewed negatively by other players. I disagree. Players are thick as thieves. If I saw how the Sabres were mishandling a prospect, I would think twice about the franchise. Buffalo has three options as I see them:

1. Send the kid to the Q -- A place where he has out grown
2. Keep the kid in Buffalo and work on his game
3. Trade him.

I opt for 2 if he is the future of the franchise. If management has decided he is not, then go option 3. But to pick option 1 is just plain dumb in my eyes.

Edited by wjag, 11 January 2014 - 04:53 PM.


#77 dudacek

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

This is sort of like the Turris situation in Phoenix that the Murrays were able to capitalize on (in the sense of major friction between a top prospect and the club) , only in reverse. Wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt, although I wouldn't do it unless we got a prospect with a similar ceiling. Anyone know of any risk/reward prospects out there that could make some sense in a deal? I'm definitely not moving him for a 2nd round pick.


Brett Connolly with Tampa is one name already being bounced around. There are plenty of first- and second-rounders from the past few years who aren't in the NHL yet. All you need is one GM who likes Grigs better than a guy on his prospect list that Murray prefers. And we have plenty of second-round picks to sweeten a pot.

Even if that's true (and you're almost certainly right), it's just a total dick move. Yes, the Sabres suck but he's in no position to demand anything over the veterans on the team.


There's no way anyone can spin this as anything other than a me-first move.

Play him, his learning curve will be a bit heavier, but I mean really, what's all the fuss about? It's not like he threatens the tank, and as for those talking about the vets and all earning their spots, I mean come on man, a team filled with 3rd and 4th liners, most secondary 3rd and 4th liners, not even primary. It's time to put the big boy pants on and realize Grigo's being in a Sabres uniform effects him in no way and the tank in no way. Let him play.


That's a good argument in a vacuum.
But this isn't a vacuum. The Sabres are trying to build a culture where every player works hard, every shift, and every shift is earned. If you want a spot over a veteran, you are going to have to outwork him. That's a good policy for long-term growth of both the team and it young players.
Even speaking strictly on Grigo, the kid is obviously someone who has had everything come easy to him. He needs to battle through some adversity to grow.
Handing him a spot on the Sabres because D'Agostini and Ellis aren't worth a bucket of pucks isn't going to make him better, or the Sabres better.

Ok, I'll bite. Exactly what is the difference between "not ready" and "not good"?


There are plenty of 25-year-olds in the league who were good (talented) enough at 19, but not ready until they were 22.

#78 kas23

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:56 PM

A player who is not ready is a player who has potential to be good. A player who is not good no longer has that potential. Playing Grigorenko in this situation as a player who is not ready means that he will also not be good. What is the benefit of playing a kid who isn't ready with players who aren't good?


People would argue, and even you, that if you're a player in the AHL, for better for worse, you could probably play in the NHL. In a perfect world, Grigs should be in that group, in the AHL.

I do agree with you in not playing him with horrible players. He won't grow. Play him on the 1st or 2nd line. Take a player, no matter how good, that had no future with the Sabres and replace him with Grigs.

Plus, he won't be the only underachieving Sabre playing with boatloads of potential (see Omark).

Edited by kas23, 11 January 2014 - 04:56 PM.


#79 wjag

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

It amazes me how fast this board has condemned this kid to the discard pile.

#80 kas23

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

There are plenty of 25-year-olds in the league who were good (talented) enough at 19, but not ready until they were 22.


But there's still other players with all-world talent who are stinking it up (Omark). Is he likewise "not ready"?