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Grigorenko refuses (but then) goes back to Juniors


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#1 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:31 PM

View PostAssquatch, on 11 January 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:



Sorry if I missed it but has a loan to a European team been ruled out?

No reason to do so in my opinion. Keep him in North America and keep him feeling welcome. Shipping a kid overseas is like exiling him.

#2 Kristian

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:05 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 11 January 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

No reason to do so in my opinion. Keep him in North America and keep him feeling welcome. Shipping a kid overseas is like exiling him.

Agree.

Not sure how much he'll learn playing on the bigger ice surface either, he needs to get way better in less space.

Edited by Kristian, 11 January 2014 - 02:05 PM.


#3 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:19 PM

He is refusing to go?

Joe Yerdon@JoeYerdonPHT  5m
According to that report, Grigorenko is refusing to go to Quebec. Fun!

#4 Tankalicious

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:20 PM

http://www.buffaloho...back-to-junior/

Not going to Quebec.


Bill Hoppe@BillHoppeNHL2m

I can confirm Mikhail Grigorenko won't be reporting to the Quebec Remparts ... http://tinyurl.com/olljk65 #Sabres #Buffalo

Edited by Tankalicious, 11 January 2014 - 02:20 PM.


#5 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:20 PM

Joe Yerdon@JoeYerdonPHT  5m
According to that report, Grigorenko is refusing to go to Quebec.

He is refusing to go?

#6 Tankalicious

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:21 PM

He is refusing to report to the Q. This is an absolute mess.

#7 Kristian

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:25 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 11 January 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

He is refusing to report to the Q. This is an absolute mess.

Unless there's something we don't know, like place outside NA that he'd like to play instead where the Sabres won't let him go to, this is a move that pisses me off to end.

He is nowhere near NHL-ready, and competitive or not, he should realise he's in WAY over his head.

He doesn't skate well enough, he's not strong enough, and he doesn't hustle enough.

#8 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 11 January 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

He is refusing to report to the Q. This is an absolute mess.

Wow.  I can't say I blame him, he has done everything he can in the Q.

This highlights how absurd the agreement between the NHL and CHL really is.

#9 Kristian

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:28 PM

View PostBRAWNDO, on 11 January 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Wow.  I can't say I blame him, he has done everything he can in the Q.

This highlights how absurd the agreement between the NHL and CHL really is.

True, he won't learn a darned thing there, but won't he eligible to play in the AHL next season?

#10 BuffaninATL

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:31 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 11 January 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Page six. Being discussed on page seven.

ok, is this really necessary?

wow, you are really going after it.....is that a 5 minute major for me or a game misconduct?

thanks for bringing it to my attention; I seriously did not see it in the other thread

mods, please feel free to merge this thread. I apologize for starting a another related one.

#11 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:29 PM

View PostKristian, on 11 January 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Unless there's something we don't know, like place outside NA that he'd like to play instead where the Sabres won't let him go to, this is a move that pisses me off to end.

He is nowhere near NHL-ready, and competitive or not, he should realise he's in WAY over his head.

He doesn't skate well enough, he's not strong enough, and he doesn't hustle enough.

They could loan him to an European Professional League I suppose.  I would hesitate for that league to be the KHL because he may never come back.

#12 Tankalicious

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:30 PM

View PostBRAWNDO, on 11 January 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

This highlights how absurd the agreement between the NHL and CHL really is.

Absolutely not. If the agreement wasn't in place then half of the CHL leagues would be forced to fold because a good number of their players are NHL draftees that would immediately go to the AHL.

Then you'd have the issue of a bunch of vets losing their AHL jobs because of the influx of young players coming their way.



For the record, I don't blame Grigorenko, at all. This is on the team (well, guys that aren't around anymore) for messing up this entire process in the first place.

Edited by Tankalicious, 11 January 2014 - 02:31 PM.


#13 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:30 PM

View PostKristian, on 11 January 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

True, he won't learn a darned thing there, but won't he eligible to play in the AHL next season?

Yes he can, but what to do with him the rest of this season is the problem.

#14 Robviously

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:32 PM


Kris Baker@SabresProspects19s

25 reportedly not accepting QMJHL assignment is a huge game changer. Sabres handled poorly, but that's way too selfish.


Might be time to start thinking about getting Grigo and the word "Bust" reacquainted. It's tough to take him seriously as a big part of our future when he's pulling crap like this.


#15 Kristian

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:34 PM

View PostBRAWNDO, on 11 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

They could loan him to an European Professional League I suppose.  I would hesitate for that league to be the KHL because he may never come back.

That's possible, but chances are he's not ready for the KHL either.

View PostBRAWNDO, on 11 January 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yes he can, but what to do with him the rest of this season is the problem.

It's less than half a season. He's 19. He needs to contain his ego, and do what he's told.

He's not an NHL player. He should know the Sabres have no other options than send him back to juinors.

#16 dudacek

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:34 PM

Can't see any way this helps the kid, or puts him in the good books of his new boss.

#17 Tankalicious

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:36 PM

This is also when Murray's quote about "player's that don't want to be here won't be here" may come into play. Obviously he's saying he doesn't want to be in Quebec, but it's still worth considering as it may take another turn.

#18 BuffaninATL

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:44 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 11 January 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

Absolutely not. If the agreement wasn't in place then half of the CHL leagues would be forced to fold because a good number of their players are NHL draftees that would immediately go to the AHL.

Then you'd have the issue of a bunch of vets losing their AHL jobs because of the influx of young players coming their way.



For the record, I don't blame Grigorenko, at all. This is on the team (well, guys that aren't around anymore) for messing up this entire process in the first place.

I agree with the bolded statement....trying to put myself in his shoes. For all those claiming he's selfish, how would you feel if you got demoted to a job that was way beneath your skill set ?

#19 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:49 PM

Not necessarily every NHL Draftee from the CHL would not be ready the AHL.  Plus the object of player development is to get your players NHL Ready, if the GM feels the best way to do so is having a prospect play   in the AHL they should be allowed to do so.

Perhaps the best idea would be to allow players drafted in the first round from junior teams to begin playing full time in the AHL, one full year after they are selected.  Meaning a player taken in June 2012 Draft could play in the AHL in the 2013-14 Season.

Edited by BRAWNDO, 11 January 2014 - 02:50 PM.


#20 Eleven

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:49 PM

and boom goes the dynamite

#21 Tankalicious

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:51 PM

View PostBRAWNDO, on 11 January 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Not necessarily every NHL Draftee from the CHL would not be ready the AHL.  Plus the object of player development is to get your players NHL Ready, if the GM feels the best way to do so is having a prospect play   in the AHL they should be allowed to do so.

Perhaps the best idea would be to allow players drafted in the first round from junior teams to begin playing full time in the AHL, one full year after they are selected.  Meaning a player taken in June 2012 Draft could play in the AHL in the 2013-14 Season.

Players still have contracts in the CHL. When GMs draft players from the CHL they know the rules.

I would say that I think the rule should be that once you've played X number of NHL games then you should be eligible for AHL, but then teams would force young players to play in the NHL too early a lot just so they can get them into the AHL.

Edited by Tankalicious, 11 January 2014 - 02:51 PM.


#22 Kristian

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:51 PM

View PostBuffaninATL, on 11 January 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

I agree with the bolded statement....trying to put myself in his shoes. For all those claiming he's selfish, how would you feel if you got demoted to a job that was way beneath your skill set ?

If this is how he feels, then the Sabres didn't do a well enough of job of letting him know that this is the only option they have.

He's not NHL-ready, being here will only hurt his development further.

He'll be with the Amerks next year, but perhaps he wouldn't be too happy about that either?

I agree, he never should've been brought here in the first place, but that cluster###### is on former management, and there's nothing anyone can do about it now.

#23 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:53 PM

APB....he's yours to the first team that puts up a 2015 2nd round pick.....

#24 3putt

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

I dont get this.  I know there is a new sheriff in town, and Coho is ready to come back, but how does having the kid play against better competition hurt the tank?  I understand that minutes are better than no minutes, but we aren't making a playoff run.  Give the kid some linemates and let him take his lumps.

#25 MILFHUNTER#518

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 02:58 PM

I think I have seen all I need to see of this kid, even despite the mishandling on the sabres part...

#26 MILFHUNTER#518

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:02 PM

I think I have seen all I need to see of this kid, even despite the mishandling on the sabres part...

#27 Robviously

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:03 PM

View PostBuffaninATL, on 11 January 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

I agree with the bolded statement....trying to put myself in his shoes. For all those claiming he's selfish, how would you feel if you got demoted to a job that was way beneath your skill set ?
He's being asked the do the only job he's proven he can do.  He's also 19 years old and being wildly overpaid to do it.

He should STFU and go play in Quebec for a few more months.  I'm sure his teammates in Buffalo are thrilled to learn that he should get some of their playing time due to his imaginary list of NHL accomplishments.

#28 Eleven

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:04 PM

View Post3putt, on 11 January 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

I dont get this.  I know there is a new sheriff in town, and Coho is ready to come back, but how does having the kid play against better competition hurt the tank?  I understand that minutes are better than no minutes, but we aren't making a playoff run.  Give the kid some linemates and let him take his lumps.

I'm kind of with you on this.  Do the Sabres really have 12 forwards who are better?

#29 BRAWNDO

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:05 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 11 January 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Players still have contracts in the CHL. When GMs draft players from the CHL they know the rules.

I would say that I think the rule should be that once you've played X number of NHL games then you should be eligible for AHL, but then teams would force young players to play in the NHL too early a lot just so they can get them into the AHL.

The rules should be changed for first round draft choices.  One more season in juniors after they are drafted if they are not NHL Ready, then the NHL Team should be able to assign the player to the AHL.  To compensate for the revenue loss for junior team perhaps a "buyout fee" can be negotiated between the NHL and the CHL.

#30 Eleven

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:06 PM

View PostRobviously, on 11 January 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

He's being asked the do the only job he's proven he can do.  He's also 19 years old and being wildly overpaid to do it.

He should STFU and go play in Quebec for a few more months.  I'm sure his teammates in Buffalo are thrilled to learn that he should get some of their playing time due to his imaginary list of NHL accomplishments.

As opposed to their own imaginary lists of NHL accomplishments?  Can we honestly say that he's the 13th- or 14th-best forward in the system?

But agreed that he should accept the assignment and move on.

View PostBRAWNDO, on 11 January 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

The rules should be changed for first round draft choices.  One more season in juniors after they are drafted if they are not NHL Ready, then the NHL Team should be able to assign the player to the AHL.  To compensate for the revenue loss for junior team perhaps a "buyout fee" can be negotiated between the NHL and the CHL.

All players, not just first-rounders, IMO.  It's better for the players that way.  It's not like every kid grows up dreaming of playing in the Q.

#31 tom webster

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:07 PM

View PostMILFHUNTER#518, on 11 January 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

I think I have seen all I need to see of this kid, even despite the mishandling on the sabres part...

Agreed. Three different coaches came to the same conclusion. Did the Sabres, specifically DR handle this poorly ? Sure. But this is all on the kid.

#32 3putt

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:08 PM

So long term, are we saying Dagostini will be a part of our future? Or Ulmark? If we are out of options play him here with talent and let him learn.  We are trying to get the top pick not a playoff spot.  I would hate to think Murray feels he needs to undo everything just to prove a point.  This is the situation he inherited, live with it for a couple of months.

#33 tom webster

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:09 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 11 January 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

APB....he's yours to the first team that puts up a 2015 2nd round pick.....

Wow, we agree again.

#34 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:10 PM

This is sort of like the Turris situation in Phoenix that the Murrays were able to capitalize on (in the sense of major friction between a top prospect and the club) , only in reverse. Wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt, although I wouldn't do it unless we got a prospect with a similar ceiling. Anyone know of any risk/reward prospects out there that could make some sense in a deal? I'm definitely not moving him for a 2nd round pick.

#35 BuffaninATL

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

View PostKristian, on 11 January 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

If this is how he feels, then the Sabres didn't do a well enough of job of letting him know that this is the only option they have.

He's not NHL-ready, being here will only hurt his development further.

He'll be with the Amerks next year, but perhaps he wouldn't be too happy about that either?

I agree, he never should've been brought here in the first place, but that cluster###### is on former management, and there's nothing anyone can do about it now.

c'mon, he's a young (and it would seem) a smart guy....he has known what the gig is. It's not on the Sabres to have communicated things any better

#36 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

View PostTankalicious, on 11 January 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Page six. Being discussed on page seven.

Since that thread is about Grigorenko being a bust but this is about a significant roster move it probably deserves it's own thread.

View PostEleven, on 11 January 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:



I'm kind of with you on this.  Do the Sabres really have 12 forwards who are better?

I'm not sure that matters. The goal is to develop a young scoring talent. Is playing with this train wreck really going to help him?

Although perhaps he thinks he should be here. I'm not sure I agree.

#37 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

View PostMILFHUNTER#518, on 11 January 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

I think I have seen all I need to see of this kid, even despite the mishandling on the sabres part...

Nobody has ever looked like a bust at 18-19 only to develop and have have a nice career. Never happened before.

He should absolutely accept his assignment, but I'm certainly not ready to write him off.

#38 3putt

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 11 January 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

APB....he's yours to the first team that puts up a 2015 2nd round pick.....
And what would a potential trade partner do with him the rest of the year?  I think the fo needs to simply accept the handcuffs DR left them with.

#39 Robviously

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:13 PM

View PostEleven, on 11 January 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

As opposed to their own imaginary lists of NHL accomplishments?  Can we honestly say that he's the 13th- or 14th-best forward in the system?

But agreed that he should accept the assignment and move on.
Even if that's true (and you're almost certainly right), it's just a total dick move. Yes, the Sabres suck but he's in no position to demand anything over the veterans on the team.

#40 Eleven

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:15 PM

View PostRobviously, on 11 January 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Even if that's true (and you're almost certainly right), it's just a total dick move. Yes, the Sabres suck but he's in no position to demand anything over the veterans on the team.

It definitely is a dick move.