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#1 matter2003

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:18 AM

It's taken a little while for Nolan to get these guys to fully buy in, but its night and day different right now than under Rolston...

These guys are playing with passion, energy and effort---not always the entire game, there are still lapses from shift to shift but those are becoming fewer and fewer...

The fans are responding to it...we know this team doesn't have a lot of talent, but dammit if we can work 50+ hour weeks can we at least see some effort like you actually care...you would have thought the Sabres were in a playoff game last night...the building was electric...

Nolan has galvanized this team and the fanbase. If he can get anywhere near a winning record the rest of the season he should seriously be in consideration for coach of the year...he inherited an awful team that didn't believe in themselves or care and has molded them into a hard working, fighting team that is going to go down swinging when they lose...he made a fanbase that had turned against the team and largely was apathetic care again and get behind this team...this goes way beyond wins and losses and is much harder to do, and he's accomplished this in about a month.

They still might suck record wise, but I am damn proud of this team right now. I know one thing, if the new GM comes in and doesn't resign Nolan there might literally be a jersey burning riot in front of the FNC...

#2 Jsixspd

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:22 AM

Yep, I agree!  It's been like night and day since Ted came back.   All my complaints and bitterness, linked directly to the far-too long Regier regime,  have pretty much evaporated.   I feel very positive about the Sabres once again!

#3 Claude_Verret

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:33 AM

This is exactly why I was not in favor of bringing in Nolan, it will be a PR nightmare for the team to let him go again.

#4 dudacek

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:35 AM

We still have half a season to go, but I can't fathom any reason why a new GM wouldn't keep Ted.
At the moment, he is the organization's MVP.

#5 matter2003

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 24 December 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

This is exactly why I was not in favor of bringing in Nolan, it will be a PR nightmare for the team to let him go again.

Why would you not resign him? There are few coaches that could have accomplished what he has with this roster in such a short period...this might be his best coaching job of his career

#6 Claude_Verret

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:53 AM

View Postmatter2003, on 24 December 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Why would you not resign him? There are few coaches that could have accomplished what he has with this roster in such a short period...this might be his best coaching job of his career

I'm not saying that I don't like Nolan or what he has done thus far, I just don't think it serves the GM search well to be virtually locked into a coach.

#7 Jsixspd

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:11 AM

It could also help the GM search too...its a plus to have a solid coach already onboard.

And the Sabres have made every effort to sell the fact the new GM has flexibility to change.... Ted is interim after all.

#8 DaveSnuggerud

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

Isn't there speculation that Patty is going to step into the GM role himself? I like that idea if it happens. Nolan would certainly stay in that scenario.

#9 d4rksabre

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:13 PM

View PostDaveSnuggerud, on 24 December 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Isn't there speculation that Patty is going to step into the GM role himself? I like that idea if it happens. Nolan would certainly stay in that scenario.

I hope that doesn't happen. I like Pat but I want him in the "vision development" role with someone else executing the details. He'll be busy enough with that job, let alone also being the day to day GM.

#10 PASabreFan

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostJsixspd, on 24 December 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

It could also help the GM search too...its a plus to have a solid coach already onboard.

And the Sabres have made every effort to sell the fact the new GM has flexibility to change.... Ted is interim after all.

Are you just referring to the interim tag? I haven't noticed other signals from the organization indicating "every effort" to sell that fact to a new GM.

#11 tom webster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Postmatter2003, on 24 December 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Why would you not resign him? There are few coaches that could have accomplished what he has with this roster in such a short period...this might be his best coaching job of his career

He might be good for another year but unless he has grown as a coach, he will have served his usefulness after that. I do not deny that the team has been much more fun to watch but unless Ted has learned how to incorporate true skill players into his comfort zone, his way will not win a Cup and I think that is the goal still, correct?

View PostDaveSnuggerud, on 24 December 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Isn't there speculation that Patty is going to step into the GM role himself? I like that idea if it happens. Nolan would certainly stay in that scenario.

Do we really want another GM starry eyed with his coach?

#12 nfreeman

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:54 PM

View Posttom webster, on 24 December 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:



He might be good for another year but unless he has grown as a coach, he will have served his usefulness after that. I do not deny that the team has been much more fun to watch but unless Ted has learned how to incorporate true skill players into his comfort zone, his way will not win a Cup and I think that is the goal still, correct?



Do we really want another GM starry eyed with his coach?

Were there real skill players in Buffalo or NY that he didn't use well during his prior coaching stints?  Not arguing, just asking.  

I think you would agree that Ennis is a skill player and is thriving under Teddy.  

It will be interesting to see what happens with Omark.  

As for the question of what a new GM will want to do with Teddy -- I would think that there would have to be an understanding between the new GM and PLF/TP that if it wasn't working in a couple of years, the new GM would be able to bring in his own guy.

Finally -- great thread.  The games are fun to watch again. The team is likable again.  If they can add a few guys who can finish and keep getting good goaltending they can be a real team next year.

#13 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

My God you people could have a combination of Gretzky and Lemieux on this team and you'd find a way to spin it negative.



Nolan is EXACTLY what this team needs right now.  Let's just enjoy and see where goes from here, mmmkay?

#14 tom webster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:05 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 24 December 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Were there real skill players in Buffalo or NY that he didn't use well during his prior coaching stints?  Not arguing, just asking.  

I think you would agree that Ennis is a skill player and is thriving under Teddy.  

It will be interesting to see what happens with Omark.  

As for the question of what a new GM will want to do with Teddy -- I would think that there would have to be an understanding between the new GM and PLF/TP that if it wasn't working in a couple of years, the new GM would be able to bring in his own guy.

Finally -- great thread.  The games are fun to watch again. The team is likable again.  If they can add a few guys who can finish and keep getting good goaltending they can be a real team next year.

You can start with Satan and go from there. Its not skill, its young players in general and that is where the league is heading. The biggest mis-conception about Nolan is that he works well with youth. The start of his falling out with Muckler was that he wanted to make moves like the Tropp for D'Agostini move and Muckler wanted to rebuild with youth. Ennis is exactly the kind of player he likes. A 2013 version of Derek Plante. Some skill and a good work ethic. I just don't think you win in today's NHL if Ennis is a top 1 or 2 center.
Like I said before, he is great for right now and maybe another year but unless he has adapted, and he might have, he will be the one holding them back when they have the skill players for the first two lines.

#15 nfreeman

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:20 PM

View Posttom webster, on 24 December 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:



You can start with Satan and go from there. Its not skill, its young players in general and that is where the league is heading. The biggest mis-conception about Nolan is that he works well with youth. The start of his falling out with Muckler was that he wanted to make moves like the Tropp for D'Agostini move and Muckler wanted to rebuild with youth. Ennis is exactly the kind of player he likes. A 2013 version of Derek Plante. Some skill and a good work ethic. I just don't think you win in today's NHL if Ennis is a top 1 or 2 center.
Like I said before, he is great for right now and maybe another year but unless he has adapted, and he might have, he will be the one holding them back when they have the skill players for the first two lines.

Interesting.  He is empowering some of the kids, like Zemgus and Foligno, but certainly the overall philosophy seems to favor journeyman vets over kids with potential.

I don't disagree with this philosophy, FWIW.  It seems like good NHL teams are generally built around vets with a few kids in the mix in supporting roles.  

That's one of the reasons why I find the Omark situation interesting, btw.  Omark is almost 27, clearly skilled and yet hasn't found a groove in the NHL.

#16 dudacek

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:24 PM

I think another question lingering out there is how much Nolan has grown and changed.
Most coaches would have had problems with Satan in 1997 and we really haven't seen Teddy working with top players anywhere.
What is clear is that he is the right coach for this team right now.
When he stops being the right coach is when he should be let go, not when the new GM arrives.

#17 nfreeman

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:30 PM

View Postdudacek, on 24 December 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I think another question lingering out there is how much Nolan has grown and changed.
Most coaches would have had problems with Satan in 1997 and we really haven't seen Teddy working with top players anywhere.
What is clear is that he is the right coach for this team right now.
When he stops being the right coach is when he should be let go, not when the new GM arrives.

This is what I was getting at -- I don't think he's ever clashed or held back an elite player.  And Miro, especially a young Miro, was far from an elite player.

Also, Myers might just become an elite player under Teddy.

#18 PASabreFan

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:32 PM

Dom cough cough Dom.

#19 weave

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:36 PM

Didn't LaFontaine have a brief stint with Nolan as his coach before he left for NY?  LaFontaine sure seems to respect him now and he was pretty damned elite.

#20 Potato

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 24 December 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Interesting.  He is empowering some of the kids, like Zemgus and Foligno, but certainly the overall philosophy seems to favor journeyman vets over kids with potential.


I think most of us like his philosophy of "work for everything, nothing will be given to you."  It both rewards guys like Ellis who have paid their dues and (perhaps more importantly) gives a clear message to the young kids that they won't be given a roster spot simply because they're high draft picks... they have to earn it, which Zemgus certainly has.

#21 SwampD

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:44 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 24 December 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Were there real skill players in Buffalo or NY that he didn't use well during his prior coaching stints?  Not arguing, just asking.  

I think you would agree that Ennis is a skill player and is thriving under Teddy.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Omark.  

As for the question of what a new GM will want to do with Teddy -- I would think that there would have to be an understanding between the new GM and PLF/TP that if it wasn't working in a couple of years, the new GM would be able to bring in his own guy.

Finally -- great thread.  The games are fun to watch again. The team is likable again.  If they can add a few guys who can finish and keep getting good goaltending they can be a real team next year.
I keep hearing and seeing this. I just don't see it. To me, he looks like the same guy we've seen for a while.

#22 tom webster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:46 PM

View Postweave, on 24 December 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Didn't LaFontaine have a brief stint with Nolan as his coach before he left for NY?  LaFontaine sure seems to respect him now and he was pretty damned elite.

There are always players, as I know you are aware, that don't fit the general rule and Lafontaine was definitely one of those skilled players who thrived under Nolan's coaching. My fear is that Lafontaine has too much respect, almost love for the guy to judge him clearly when the time comes.

#23 Heimdall

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:47 PM

Ted nolan must really love the sabres to be able to live with the interim stamp.

#24 d4rksabre

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

View Posttom webster, on 24 December 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:



There are always players, as I know you are aware, that don't fit the general rule and Lafontaine was definitely one of those skilled players who thrived under Nolan's coaching. My fear is that Lafontaine has too much respect, almost love for the guy to judge him clearly when the time comes.

Lafontaine wouldn't be the one firing Nolan anyway right?

#25 weave

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:03 PM

View Posttom webster, on 24 December 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

There are always players, as I know you are aware, that don't fit the general rule and Lafontaine was definitely one of those skilled players who thrived under Nolan's coaching. My fear is that Lafontaine has too much respect, almost love for the guy to judge him clearly when the time comes.

I'm trying to think of a skilled player other than Hasek that didn't do well under Nolan.  I can't come up with one off the top of my head.  Satan may have been a maligned player here but he did put up numbers during Nolan's time.

#26 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:15 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 24 December 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Interesting.  He is empowering some of the kids, like Zemgus and Foligno, but certainly the overall philosophy seems to favor journeyman vets over kids with potential.

I don't disagree with this philosophy, FWIW.  It seems like good NHL teams are generally built around vets with a few kids in the mix in supporting roles.  

That's one of the reasons why I find the Omark situation interesting, btw.  Omark is almost 27, clearly skilled and yet hasn't found a groove in the NHL.

And most of those vets were kids at one time that needed an opportunity to play through their growing pains.  I still don't care about the Tropp-D'Agostini swap, but what if (and this is purely a what if, as I have no idea) future decisions follow the same reasoning?  You can't continually trade higher ceilings for low ceiling low floor players and expect to legitimately compete for a Cup.

View Postweave, on 24 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

I'm trying to think of a skilled player other than Hasek that didn't do well under Nolan.  I can't come up with one off the top of my head.  Satan may have been a maligned player here but he did put up numbers during Nolan's time.

That's because Nolan's teams didn't really have any skill players ;)

#27 Potato

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:19 PM

View Posttom webster, on 24 December 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

He might be good for another year but unless he has grown as a coach, he will have served his usefulness after that. I do not deny that the team has been much more fun to watch but unless Ted has learned how to incorporate true skill players into his comfort zone, his way will not win a Cup and I think that is the goal still, correct?

Do we really want another GM starry eyed with his coach?

Not trying to be argumentative, but what does this even mean?   Teddy only had two years in Buffalo plus two more on the Island and for the most part he coached the rosters he inherited.   In both places, I think it would be fair to say the front offices were unstable.   How do you know he is uncomfortable with skill players?  If anything, it seems to me he has given guys like Ennis and Myers more latitude to be offensive playmakers than the prior two regimes.

#28 nfreeman

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

View Postweave, on 24 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:



I'm trying to think of a skilled player other than Hasek that didn't do well under Nolan.  I can't come up with one off the top of my head.  Satan may have been a maligned player here but he did put up numbers during Nolan's time.

Just checked the stats -- Dominik's first year as a starter was Teddy's first year with the Sabres. Dom had 22 wins that year.  The following year, which was TN's last year before getting canned, Dom had 37 wins and a .930 save %.  So TN didn't really hold him back.

#29 Potato

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

View Postweave, on 24 December 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

I'm trying to think of a skilled player other than Hasek that didn't do well under Nolan.  I can't come up with one off the top of my head.  Satan may have been a maligned player here but he did put up numbers during Nolan's time.

I got one for you:  Alexei Yashin.   :P

#30 weave

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:30 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 24 December 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:


That's because Nolan's teams didn't really have any skill players ;)

Certainly not enough of them at any one time but he did coach LaFontaine, Satan, Zhitnick, Bodger, Plante, Galley, Peca, Audette, and McKee.  Talented all and none had issues with Nolan that I recall.

well, Satan may have, but those didn't seem to be related to *that* coach as much as it was coaches (and expectations) in general.

View Postnfreeman, on 24 December 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Just checked the stats -- Dominik's first year as a starter was Teddy's first year with the Sabres. Dom had 22 wins that year.  The following year, which was TN's last year before getting canned, Dom had 37 wins and a .930 save %.  So TN didn't really hold him back.

I was thinking more of getting along and buying in than doing well.  Hasek would have done well regardless of the coach methinks.

View PostPotato, on 24 December 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I got one for you:  Alexei Yashin.   :P

So Nolan doesn't get along with Euros.

GRIGO WON"T THRIVE UNDER NOLAN!  :P

#31 tom webster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:34 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 24 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Lafontaine wouldn't be the one firing Nolan anyway right?

Hopefully not.

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 24 December 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

And most of those vets were kids at one time that needed an opportunity to play through their growing pains.  I still don't care about the Tropp-D'Agostini swap, but what if (and this is purely a what if, as I have no idea) future decisions follow the same reasoning?  You can't continually trade higher ceilings for low ceiling low floor players and expect to legitimately compete for a Cup.



That's because Nolan's teams didn't really have any skill players ;)

Satan only played 12 regular and 7 playoff games under Nolan.

#32 Potato

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

View Posttom webster, on 24 December 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:


Satan only played 12 regular and 7 playoff games under Nolan.

Satan played 2 full seasons with Nolan on the Island.

#33 wjag

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:08 PM

If you mean the team that works the hardest to score a single goal a game, then I agree.

#34 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:20 PM

What about Nolan to the GM position?

#35 nucci

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostHeimdall, on 24 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Ted nolan must really love the sabres to be able to live with the interim stamp.
No other NHL team was calling and probably wasn't going to, either.

#36 d4rksabre

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostGlass Case Of Emotion, on 24 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

What about Nolan to the GM position?

No. And I like Ted.

#37 thesportsbuff

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:58 PM

Did you guys hear Rick last night? He was really into that game. After Ennis scored to tie the game, not long later he made a play to get the puck to Girgensons who was all alone in front of the net. Rick was the loudest he's been in years on that call -- i felt like i was watching the 2006 playoffs. When a guy who's watched and commentated every game for 40 years recognizes the difference in the team, I think it'd be accurate to say this is a hard working team. finally.

#38 Kristian

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:03 PM

View PostPotato, on 24 December 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I got one for you:  Alexei Yashin.   :P

Yashin played the exact same way under Nolan that he did under whoever coached him in Ottawa.

Stellar regular season player, invisible in the playoffs.

Only difference was the Isles gave him a ludicrous contract :blink:

#39 tom webster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:15 PM

View PostPotato, on 24 December 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:



Satan played 2 full seasons with Nolan on the Island.

Of course, you are correct.

#40 Tankalicious

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:04 PM

View PostPotato, on 24 December 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Satan played 2 full seasons with Nolan on the Island.

I can't say Satan's name without pronouncing it... ya know... Satan.