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Grigo a no-go for Roch - Adam & McNabb called up


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#1 BuffaninATL

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:22 PM

http://espn.go.com/n...-grigorenko-ahl

#2 MattPie

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostBuffaninATL, on 20 November 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:


In before the merge!

(being discussed in at least another thread or two)

#3 nfreeman

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:25 PM

And such a catchy thread title!

#4 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:51 PM

Where's Breaking News in the thread title? :rolleyes:

#5 Spndnchz

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:02 PM

Well it's being talked about in three threads already why not another one?  Not being sarcastic. This title actually makes sense.

#6 BuffaninATL

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

sorry to all if I broke the sacred rules of the Board.... :flirt:

seriously, I know everyone's time if valuable & I don't want to waste it; I looked at the existing threads before my OP, and I did not see an exact match

Anyways, it will be very interesting to see what the Sabres do with Grigo - I agree with the change of direction Patty is charting

#7 Mike Oxhurtz

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

Glad this isn't TwoBillsDrive as one of the moderators would have closed this thread down because this topic was being talked about in another thread. Thank you Sabrespace mods!

#8 Spndnchz

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:24 PM

Sometimes a new thread is warranted.

#9 Eleven

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:27 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 20 November 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Well it's being talked about in three threads already why not another one?  Not being sarcastic. This title actually makes sense.

Yeah, it's kind of scattered everywhere.

View PostMike Oxhurtz, on 20 November 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Glad this isn't TwoBillsDrive as one of the moderators would have closed this thread down because this topic was being talked about in another thread. Thank you Sabrespace mods!

And then, they don't direct the reader to the thread where it's being discussed, which is really annoying.

Edited by Eleven, 20 November 2013 - 02:27 PM.


#10 MattPie

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostEleven, on 20 November 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

And then, they don't direct the reader to the thread where it's being discussed, which is really annoying.

It could be worse, they could change the title of the thread to something like, "You won't believe the latest two players to be sent down to Rcohester!" or "This injury to a Sabres player will make you tear-up".

#11 Heimdall

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 02:57 PM

Well read he can't get back to the Q untill they sort out their "imports".   So he is stuck here with us im afraid.
Should send Grigorenko to europe, he'll learn more there.   Or you just put him on 2nd line duty for atleast a month and hope he gets better at it, wich i think he will.

Edited by Heimdall, 20 November 2013 - 02:59 PM.


#12 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:20 PM

Not surprised.  IMO, the Sabres tried to pull a fast one, while no one was looking.

A blessing in disguise I think.  Now, if we can only get Nolan to play him in a good situation (not on the 4th line with Scott and Cody M.)

#13 MattPie

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:22 PM

View PostSabres Fan In NS, on 20 November 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not surprised.  IMO, the Sabres tried to pull a fast one, while no one was looking.

A blessing in disguise I think.  Now, if we can only get Nolan to play him in a good situation (not on the 4th line with Scott and Cody M.)

You're just happy he can't terrorize Halifax. :)

#14 Mike Oxhurtz

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:56 PM

View PostMattPie, on 20 November 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

It could be worse, they could change the title of the thread to something like, "You won't believe the latest two players to be sent down to Rcohester!" or "This injury to a Sabres player will make you tear-up".

The mods at TBD have a tendency to either change the title of your thread or request that you change it.

#15 LGR4GM

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:03 PM

The interesting this about this I think is will we see Adam and McNabb sooner or later?  Adam is a LW and we have a plethora of them right now.  With Grigorenko back that adds another lw who I suppose can be a center.  Just not sure who sits or flips to the right side or what goes on, it is a tough spot to be in.

McNabb I am very interested to see. I think DR shorted him when he kept adding random vet defenders that sucked to the lineup.  That being said McNabb has something to prove. Until he shows that he has learned and can play at the NHL level I am highly skeptical of him.

I really want McNabb to succeed because he has shown some potential but I just can't get behind him or Adam and hope for Potential to pay off.

#16 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:08 PM

This is now national news. ######-ay!

edit: Hmm. Wh0re is censored.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 20 November 2013 - 04:09 PM.


#17 Eleven

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:17 PM

View PostMattPie, on 20 November 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

It could be worse, they could change the title of the thread to something like, "You won't believe the latest two players to be sent down to Rcohester!" or "This injury to a Sabres player will make you tear-up".

View PostMike Oxhurtz, on 20 November 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

The mods at TBD have a tendency to either change the title of your thread or request that you change it.

I think MattPie is right:

http://forums.twobil...en-notice-that/

http://forums.twobil...y-news-article/

http://forums.twobil...talk-of-trades/

There's at least one on every page.

#18 thesportsbuff

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:40 PM

putting aside all the discussion of where Grigorenko should play, how embarrassing is this from an organizational standpoint? the fact that Grigorenko won't play in the AHL isn't a big deal to me, but wow, the Sabres don't even know/understand the rules about this kind of thing? Fantastic.

I laughed when someone linked to this post in another thread on the topic -- perhaps Darcy Kevin & Pat should take a look.

#19 Eleven

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:41 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

putting aside all the discussion of where Grigorenko should play, how embarrassing is this from an organizational standpoint? the fact that Grigorenko won't play in the AHL isn't a big deal to me, but wow, the Sabres don't even know/understand the rules about this kind of thing? Fantastic.

I laughed when someone linked to this post in another thread on the topic -- perhaps Darcy Kevin & Pat should take a look.

They know and understand the rules.  They got caught trying to circumvent and they are pleading ignorance.

#20 thesportsbuff

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostEleven, on 20 November 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

They know and understand the rules.  They got caught trying to circumvent and they are pleading ignorance.

If they tried to use a loophole and it didn't work, that shows a lack of understanding in the rules. Unless the NHL was sleeping, it doesn't seem like there's any way this would have been approved. In any event the whole situation is embarrassing and this adds to it, regardless of whether they thought they were pulling a fast one or just didn't understand the rule.

#21 K-9

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:06 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

If they tried to use a loophole and it didn't work, that shows a lack of understanding in the rules. Unless the NHL was sleeping, it doesn't seem like there's any way this would have been approved. In any event the whole situation is embarrassing and this adds to it, regardless of whether they thought they were pulling a fast one or just didn't understand the rule.

Disagree. They took a shot and missed. That's all.

And it was worth taking the shot, IMO. Clearly, Grigo is too talented for the Q and it would have been nice to see a glimpse of what he can do at the AHL level. It may have served to inform them and other teams further on where he is in his development.

GO SABRES!!!

Edited by K-9, 20 November 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#22 ThirtyEight

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:07 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

If they tried to use a loophole and it didn't work, that shows a lack of understanding in the rules. Unless the NHL was sleeping, it doesn't seem like there's any way this would have been approved. In any event the whole situation is embarrassing and this adds to it, regardless of whether they thought they were pulling a fast one or just didn't understand the rule.

They didn't try to use a loophole. They just tried to liberally apply the rule in an unsubtle manner. It isn't really embarrassing to the organisation imo as they weren't caught breaking any rules. I'm not shocked it was rejected and i doubt they are, but it was worth ago - had it worked we would probably be praising Pat for taking the initiative to get Grigo into the A.

It isn't particularly clever or subtle, i'm sure DR knew it was an option but thought it wasn't worth the 'risk'

#23 Eleven

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:09 PM

View PostK-9, on 20 November 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Disagree. They took a shot and missed. That's all.

And it was worth taking the shot, IMO. Clearly, Grigo is too talented for the Q and it would have been nice to see a glimpse of what he can do at the AHL level. It may have served to inform them and other teams further on where he is in his development.

GO SABRES!!!

I'm w/ you.  It was an aggressive and creative attempt to solve a problem.  We'd applaud it in any other organization.

#24 thesportsbuff

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

View PostK-9, on 20 November 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Disagree. They took a shot and missed. That's all.

And it was worth taking the shot, IMO. Clearly, Grigo is too talented for the Q and it would have been nice to see a glimpse of what he can do at the AHL level. It may have served to inform them and other teams further on where he is in his development.

GO SABRES!!!

I would have wanted to watch him play in the AHL too, but saying "they took a shot and missed" doesn't really describe the situation. Maybe we should take a shot and try to put Leino on IR without injury to save cap space. Or take a shot and just carry a 25 man roster for the rest of the season. Hell, let's throw Miller and Enroth in the net at the same time from now on. Maybe the NHL won't notice.

I'm not trying to make this a bigger deal than it is, so I'll stop posting about it now. But the argument that they expected it would be denied but hoped the NHL would let it slide seems absurd.

#25 apuszczalowski

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:27 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

If they tried to use a loophole and it didn't work, that shows a lack of understanding in the rules. Unless the NHL was sleeping, it doesn't seem like there's any way this would have been approved. In any event the whole situation is embarrassing and this adds to it, regardless of whether they thought they were pulling a fast one or just didn't understand the rule.
No it doesn't, it just means they gave it a shot and it didn't work. They were trying to say that he had the flu and thats why they wanted to send him for conditioning, the NHL saw through this and said nope. No harm no foul, they gave it a shot. Nothing about not understanding the rules, they know the rules

#26 ThirtyEight

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:28 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

I would have wanted to watch him play in the AHL too, but saying "they took a shot and missed" doesn't really describe the situation. Maybe we should take a shot and try to put Leino on IR without injury to save cap space. Or take a shot and just carry a 25 man roster for the rest of the season. Hell, let's throw Miller and Enroth in the net at the same time from now on. Maybe the NHL won't notice.

I'm not trying to make this a bigger deal than it is, so I'll stop posting about it now. But the argument that they expected it would be denied but hoped the NHL would let it slide seems absurd.

I think your missing the point. Those rules all have very clear conditions - has a doctor signed off saying you are injured, you are only allowed 23 men on a roster and you are only allowed one goalie on the ice. Whereas conditioning is really wish washy. There will be a spectrum of fitness in the league and so there is no standard by which you can say this player is unfit enough to need the minors. Not to mention, Grigo sitting out a fair few games recently (and the season as a whole) gives you the argument he is not match fit - again, what match fit means is irrelevant, as each player assigns his own meaning to it. Plus effort on the ice (in a game) also comes into fitness, which further muddies the whole issue.

tl;dr - there was an arguable, although transparent, case to get Grigo into the A. There is not an argument in the examples you provided

#27 Taro T

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:44 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

I would have wanted to watch him play in the AHL too, but saying "they took a shot and missed" doesn't really describe the situation. Maybe we should take a shot and try to put Leino on IR without injury to save cap space. Or take a shot and just carry a 25 man roster for the rest of the season. Hell, let's throw Miller and Enroth in the net at the same time from now on. Maybe the NHL won't notice.

I'm not trying to make this a bigger deal than it is, so I'll stop posting about it now. But the argument that they expected it would be denied but hoped the NHL would let it slide seems absurd.
Sure it does.  The rule states that players can be sent to the AHL for conditioning assignments.  I haven't seen the new cba, but it wasn't too elaborate in the old one.  There was a reasonable, though not great, possibility the plan would have worked.

Your other examples are of activities that are clearly prohibited under either cba or playing rules.  A better example was of DR not taking a chance on waiting until the playoffs to activate TC from LTIR and possibly not being able to use him in the playoffs and using his cap space on another vet that could have helped the playoff run.  What PLF &TN did was essentially take the chance on stashing TC.  It didn't work, but I like that they're interpreting gray areas in a manner favorable to the Sabres until told otherwise.  The previous management went the other way when it was gray.  Too risky (and unfortunately then too many opportunities lost).

#28 Formerly Allan in MD

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:57 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 20 November 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

putting aside all the discussion of where Grigorenko should play, how embarrassing is this from an organizational standpoint? the fact that Grigorenko won't play in the AHL isn't a big deal to me, but wow, the Sabres don't even know/understand the rules about this kind of thing? Fantastic.

I laughed when someone linked to this post in another thread on the topic -- perhaps Darcy Kevin & Pat should take a look.
Not surprising.  They don't have a GM.

#29 inkman

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:50 PM

View PostMike Oxhurtz, on 20 November 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

The mods at TBD have a tendency to either change the title of your thread or request that you change it.
Only of your some kind of ###### tard that doesn't know how to title a thread.  I've been here what 7-8 years?  Not once has a mod had to tell me to re-name a thread.

#30 Icehole

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostFormerly Allan in MD, on 20 November 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Not surprising.  They don't have a GM.

I too disagree.  You can't get a ruled defined unless you ask.  As stated above, there are some legitimate arguments to send Grigs to the AHL, though wishy washy, it is worth a shot. So what about getting embarrassed, if it works then it great attempt.  If not it makes clear to other teams they can't do it either.  The embarrassment was that Grigs was put in limbo by the previous administration.  Though that may have happened inevitably because he is too good for the juniors and not quite ready for the NHL.  If Europe is a possibility, I can't see why that would hurt him.

?Anyway Grigs could be sent to the WHL or traded there and would that be any better than the QMHL, OR the OHL?

Edited by North Buffalo, 20 November 2013 - 06:57 PM.


#31 Bills12Sabres11

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:57 PM

So Grigorenko comes back to Buffalo. Why not play him? Put him on the ice in all situations and ask him to do all the hard work. Give him top six minutes and 10 games to start producing and if he doesn't then he's a healthy scratch or he goes to the Q to finish the year. The kid hasn't been given a fair shot to date imo and the Sabres have nothing to lose this year atleast. Excited to see what Adam and McNabb bring, they deserve a shot!!

#32 Miller30

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:00 PM

It's just a simple case of "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission" No harm no foul. It was a good try.

#33 nfreeman

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 20 November 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

They didn't try to use a loophole. They just tried to liberally apply the rule in an unsubtle manner. It isn't really embarrassing to the organisation imo as they weren't caught breaking any rules. I'm not shocked it was rejected and i doubt they are, but it was worth ago - had it worked we would probably be praising Pat for taking the initiative to get Grigo into the A.

It isn't particularly clever or subtle, i'm sure DR knew it was an option but thought it wasn't worth the 'risk'

View PostEleven, on 20 November 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

I'm w/ you.  It was an aggressive and creative attempt to solve a problem.  We'd applaud it in any other organization.

View PostMiller30, on 20 November 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

It's just a simple case of "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission" No harm no foul. It was a good try.

I agree with all of these.

#34 Mike Oxhurtz

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:02 PM

View Postinkman, on 20 November 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:


Only of your some kind of ###### tard that doesn't know how to title a thread.  I've been here what 7-8 years?  Not once has a mod had to tell me to re-name a thread.

I've seen numerous times from mods on TBD telling other posters to rename a thread which weren't derogatory or even sarcastic.

#35 inkman

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostMike Oxhurtz, on 20 November 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

I've seen numerous times from mods on TBD telling other posters to rename a thread which weren't derogatory or even sarcastic.
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here but I think the mods are trying to keep poster from titling threads inappropriately with ambiguous titles or portly worded threads.  Just thinking out loud here.  I think that's what makes this place special. You don't get the "Sabres Suck Balls" thread titles because we are looking for stimulating discussion not condescending, poorly worded diatribes telling everyone why they are right and everyone else is wrong.   (Not that I'm thinkin of a particular poster here ;))

Edited by inkman, 20 November 2013 - 10:28 PM.


#36 Eleven

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:44 PM

View Postinkman, on 20 November 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here but I think the mods are trying to keep poster from titling threads inappropriately with ambiguous titles or portly worded threads.  Just thinking out loud here.  I think that's what makes this place special. You don't get the "Sabres Suck Balls" thread titles because we are looking for stimulating discussion not condescending, poorly worded diatribes telling everyone why they are right and everyone else is wrong.   (Not that I'm thinkin of a particular poster here ;))

TBD has thread titles like:  "I'm thinking the Bills should."  Then you click.  Then you read that it's about parking policies or signing Tim Tebow.  Then you feel sad.

#37 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:39 AM

I'm with the buff guy on this one.

Patty tried to pull a fast one to sneak Grigs to the A.  He may have thought his buddy at the league offices would give him his one freebee.

I am not sure of the exact wording in the old, or new, CBA on the conditioning stints, but I do not recall a case in the past that a player was not coming back from injury when they were sent to the A for a conditioning stint.  If not the text that was the spirit of the clause and the precedent had long been set.

#38 LGR4GM

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:14 AM

Really? We are really arguing over this?  They tried to send him the couldn't.  I no longer care.

#39 Sabres Fan In NS

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:22 AM

It's not an *argument*, it's a discussion.  Big difference.  No one is using a loud voice.

And if you no longer care, no need to add to that discussion.

#40 billsrcursed

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:28 AM

View PostEleven, on 20 November 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

TBD has thread titles like:  "I'm thinking the Bills should."  Then you click.  Then you read that it's about parking policies or signing Tim Tebow.  Then you feel sad.

Exactly this.

When I come here, I expect to learn.

When I go there, not so much.

There is a great core of posters that I do look forward to hearing from over there, you just have to thumb through the mud sometimes to get to them.