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#1 inkman

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:57 PM

So how many times have you had the flu?  I think I can only say for certain twice in 42 years.  Didn't seem like enough to warrant getting shots.  The whole process bothers me for reasons I can't explain.

#2 wjag

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:03 PM

1 time that I can remember in 5+ decades.  I do get the flu shot every year.  It's free.  I see no reason to risk getting the flu.  I have kids in a disease infested institution (also known as school).  While the flu shot isn't a certainty to prevent the flu, it sure seems like a resonable safeguard.  The one time I did get it was enough to convince me I didn't want to go through it again.

#3 weave

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:14 PM

2, maybe 3 times.  Last one was almost 15 years ago.  But it was a dandy.  I remember lying in bed thinking that I "got" how people die from it.  It was a pretty rough flu.

Some years I get a flu shot.  Didn't this year.  More out of laziness than anything.

#4 Josie914

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:27 PM

Flu flu, only a couple times. Stomach flus... pretty much 3 times a year growing up. At least.

Never have gotten a flu shot- nearly everyone in my family has terrible reactions to it and I guess I just don't want to find out if I also will lose a couple days to... the flu... because of the flu shot. Guess I'd rather take the risk.

#5 d4rksabre

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:29 PM

I think I had it two years ago. Other than that, never.

Never had a flu shot.

Edited by d4rksabre, 19 November 2013 - 10:29 PM.


#6 biodork

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:30 PM

I've only had (what I think was probably) the flu once, and that was right at the beginning of the spring semester of my junior year of college.  I was sick for a solid 2 weeks and even lost my voice for part of it, but I wasn't bedridden so it's possible I just picked up a wicked bacterial respiratory infection.  I've resisted the flu shot for years because I find it unnecessary for most people in my age group, but I relented last year since my boss has patient contact and young children who are always sick.  The flu shot kicked my ass this year, though (felt like crap the whole day after getting it), making me long for the years I relied on herd immunity.

#7 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:41 PM

Had it bad this time last year. The sickest I've been since a little kid. Other than that, not bad enough to remember.

As far as the flu shot debate....I would NEVER get it. I know some people I trust who say it is worth it, but I have also seen first hand the effects on the elderly. While the claim is that it is a dead shot and can't get you sick, those who already have other issues and get the shot reach a critical mass in having to defend themselves. I have seen someone close to me go septic a few days after getting the shot. Countless others die of "the flu" weeks after getting the shot.

If you are strong, you can kick it no matter what. If you are weak, the chances of getting the proper defense versus being sent over the edge in current medical condition is a big question mark to me and a no-no. I understand how flu can eventually send elderly into pneumonia and be a threat.....but I'd rather let nature dictate the terms over man trying to top nature unless I am confident that it makes sense. I am far from confident.

#8 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:17 PM

Define 'flu'. It used to mean puking your guts out for days straight, not being able to keep any food down, and drinking like there's no tomorrow to prevent dehydration. Today, people say they have the flu when their nose is stuffed. At least around here they do.

#9 d4rksabre

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:50 PM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 19 November 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Define 'flu'. It used to mean puking your guts out for days straight, not being able to keep any food down, and drinking like there's no tomorrow to prevent dehydration. Today, people say they have the flu when their nose is stuffed. At least around here they do.

Crippling sickness would be my definition.

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 19 November 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Had it bad this time last year. The sickest I've been since a little kid. Other than that, not bad enough to remember.

As far as the flu shot debate....I would NEVER get it. I know some people I trust who say it is worth it, but I have also seen first hand the effects on the elderly. While the claim is that it is a dead shot and can't get you sick, those who already have other issues and get the shot reach a critical mass in having to defend themselves. I have seen someone close to me go septic a few days after getting the shot. Countless others die of "the flu" weeks after getting the shot.

If you are strong, you can kick it no matter what. If you are weak, the chances of getting the proper defense versus being sent over the edge in current medical condition is a big question mark to me and a no-no. I understand how flu can eventually send elderly into pneumonia and be a threat.....but I'd rather let nature dictate the terms over man trying to top nature unless I am confident that it makes sense. I am far from confident.

I watched doctors kill my grandmother with their medicine. I'm watching my grandfather fall apart thanks to chiropractors performing their trade on him and causing more damage than good. I watch my aunt, who I'm convinced is a hemophiliac, constantly get "treated" for whatever current ailment she's got.

Gyno's are the only doctors you can trust.

#10 biodork

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:01 AM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 19 November 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Define 'flu'. It used to mean puking your guts out for days straight, not being able to keep any food down, and drinking like there's no tomorrow to prevent dehydration. Today, people say they have the flu when their nose is stuffed. At least around here they do.

People definitely misuse the term, but the OP was careful to put influenza in the thread title.  Too often what is referred to as the "stomach flu" is actually norovirus or something else, which is nothing like the real flu:

http://www.webmd.com...u-not-influenza

#11 wyldnwoody44

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:06 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 19 November 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:



Crippling sickness would be my definition.



I watched doctors kill my grandmother with their medicine. I'm watching my grandfather fall apart thanks to chiropractors performing their trade on him and causing more damage than good. I watch my aunt, who I'm convinced is a hemophiliac, constantly get "treated" for whatever current ailment she's got.

Gyno's are the only doctors you can trust.

On the contrary, I know many ob/gyn docs that I would not trust... coincidentally that field has the highest malpractice costs of all doctors.

As for the influenza shot, the makers have to guess what 3-5 strains of the flu will be in a pandemic about 8 months ahead of time, there are several hundred strains but in order for companies to produce the amount needed, they have to rely on patterns and certain medical analytics and take a best guess, the odds are not that great.... As for the virus itself... It is attenuated, which is the equivalent of being beat within inches of your life... While not usually harmful, it can cause serious issues, especially in those with any immune system compromise... I don't like the recommendations that the AMA  has regarding the injecting of the vaccine.... It's recommended in elderly and those with chronic conditions... Us in the medical field are required to get them yearly as well at most places

Unfortunately for me, I say I get the flu at least once every 5 years, but that's the risk you have when working in hospitals around sick people all day



#12 SwampD

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:48 AM

I have had the flu twice. Both times it sucked. The first was just the "Can't get out of bed for four days" variety. That I can take. The other was three days of the Flyin' Hawaiin and not being able to eat for a week. Even after that, though, I still never got a shot.

I can't remember who it was, but I had a pretty good dust up with someone in the complaint thread about the flu shot last year. I think he has something to do with them. I'm afraid to go back and look at what I wrote because for the first time ever I broke down and got a shot this year. It really wasn't a big deal and even if it only gives me 5% less chance of getting it, why not.

And I figure, whatever chip They are putting in me when They give me the shot to keep tabs on me is really unnecessary. My kid can already legally buy 2OZ of weed a month. They know where to find me.

Edited by SwampD, 20 November 2013 - 01:17 AM.


#13 Arcsabresfan41

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

I've never had the flu, nor the flu shot. However, I am only eighteen, and am on a college campus 24/7 :P So at some point, I suspect it will come.


Edit: That : P face looks far happier than I planned it to

Edited by Arcsabresfan41, 20 November 2013 - 01:16 AM.


#14 skaught

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:46 AM

I've never had the flu as far as I know and I got a shot once, but I've had plenty of other things: appendicitis, pneumonia, pertussis (whooping cough).

#15 Heimdall

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:21 AM

Haven't been sick in over 20yrs, And i know of people getting flu shots actually getting sick by them.

#16 weave

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:59 AM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 19 November 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Define 'flu'. It used to mean puking your guts out for days straight, not being able to keep any food down, and drinking like there's no tomorrow to prevent dehydration. Today, people say they have the flu when their nose is stuffed. At least around here they do.

Puking your guts out is not the flu.  Most cases of puking your guts out for a few days is related to food borne illness.  Influenza, the upper respiratory viral infection is the flu.

And yes, tons of folks with bad colds claim to have the flu.  Getting actual influenza is a rather memorable event for most folks.

#17 That Aud Smell

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:12 AM

thanks for that, weave.

i blame the NHL for reinforcing the misconception that GI bugs *and* various forms of food poisoning (for which there are no immunizations, yet) are a form of influenza (for which there is an immunization).

as i said in the nolan thread: GI viruses and food borne illnesses didn't cause a brutally fatal pandemic at the end of WWI: influenza did.


#18 716

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:10 AM

The flu could be deadly but I don't see it. Generally you let it run its course and it's over for any normal person. I don't understand how the Walgreens and supermarkets and banks and everyone else who's pushing the shots so hard could do so. It feels very wrong when I'm in a drug store and someone they hire as a greeter directs me to the back to get my shot. My dad got a flu shot a few years back and it caused an infection in his eye that was just about to get operated on.

The flu shot hysteria feels very suspicious and I have a similar feeling about the TSA, another agency that's set up not to benefit us but to control us.

Edited by 716, 20 November 2013 - 07:12 AM.


#19 That Aud Smell

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:05 AM

View Post716, on 20 November 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

The flu could be deadly but I don't see it. Generally you let it run its course and it's over for any normal person. I don't understand how the Walgreens and supermarkets and banks and everyone else who's pushing the shots so hard could do so. It feels very wrong when I'm in a drug store and someone they hire as a greeter directs me to the back to get my shot. My dad got a flu shot a few years back and it caused an infection in his eye that was just about to get operated on.

The flu shot hysteria feels very suspicious and I have a similar feeling about the TSA, another agency that's set up not to benefit us but to control us.

the notion that the public policy of encouraging everyone to get their flu shots is part of some nefarious shadow government/megaladon corporation's efforts to control us or push a product of dubious value is ... well, beyond the realm of rational thought -- straight tinfoil hat stuff.

poster claude verret appears to be involved in the industry that manufactures the flu vaccines. for my part, an immediate family member of mine (who has an advanced degree in public health) spent time working in atlanta on pandemic prevention policies. the people responsible for developing these policies are smart and selfless scientists who, oh, just don't want a million people to needlessly drop dead from a nasty strain of the flu. the policy of creating as much herd immunity from influenza is a laudable one because science.

i will now wait watchfully for the thread's possibly veering into the anti-vaccination bullspit that morons like jenny mccarthy promulgate.

#20 Claude_Verret

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:06 AM

Whoa..where to begin...

You absolutely, positively cannot get the flu from the flu shot.  Period.  The virus in the flu shot vaccine that is delivered by IM injection is inactivated, killed, non-infectious etc.  You can't get influenza from receiving the flu shot.

Flu mist,  has an attenuated cold-adapted virus in it and is administered intranasally.  This form of the vaccine is more immunogenic, meaning it generally provides a better immune response or greater protection against infection.  However, since it is attenuated it is only recommended for patients between the ages of 2-50 I believe.

The soreness or malaise you might feel after receiving the flu shot is your body generating a immune response to the vaccine, meaning it's working.  A very small price to pay versus contracting a full blown case of influenza.

Besides the confusion with the "stomach flu", many people think they have had the flu when they more likely only had a rhinovirus (common cold).  As others here have mentioned, if you get a full blown clinically diagnosed case of flu and you didn't get the shot that year, I can promise you that you will wish you had as you lie in bed in agony.

The strains that they pick to include each year isn't akin to throwing darts at a wall.  There are hundreds of National Influenza Centers worldwide that are constantly doing surveillance of what virus strains are circulating in the population.  After this data is compiled, the WHO convenes a meeting each year and makes recommendations based on this data.

There is more that I could address in regard to pandemics, H5N1, H7N9, increasing antiviral resistance and the public health benefits of getting vaccinated, but there's not much point.  

However, since some have shared some anecdotal stores I thought that I'd share a few clinical cases that I know about. My wife is a pediatric nurse practitioner and she has had more than a few infant patients die from influenza during her career.  None of those that died got the flu shot.  That's what you get when people make medical decisions based on advice from such qualified individuals like Jenny McCarthy rather than trained medical experts.

edit: Based on Aud's post to provide full disclosure, I do not work for one of the flu vaccine manufacturers. but  I do work for one of the many companies that makes an influenza diagnostic test.

Edited by Claude_Verret, 20 November 2013 - 09:17 AM.


#21 wjag

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:10 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 20 November 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

the notion that the public policy of encouraging everyone to get their flu shots is part of some nefarious shadow government/megaladon corporation's efforts to control us or push a product of dubious value is ... well, beyond the realm of rational thought -- straight tinfoil hat stuff.

poster claude verret appears to be involved in the industry that manufactures the flu vaccines. for my part, an immediate family member of mine (who has an advanced degree in public health) spent time working in atlanta on pandemic prevention policies. the people responsible for developing these policies are smart and selfless scientists who, oh, just don't want a million people to needlessly drop dead from a nasty strain of the flu. the policy of creating as much herd immunity from influenza is a laudable one because science.

i will now wait watchfully for the thread's possibly veering into the anti-vaccination bullspit that morons like jenny mccarthy promulgate.

I agree..  Get a flu shot you bunch of babies. :w00t:   Don't be a vector for the rest of us.

#22 LGR4GM

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:11 AM

Ahh Jenny McCarthy the same idiot who thinks Vaccines cause autism.

The flu shot works with the exceptions being for some elderly patients with weak or impaired immune systems.

#23 SwampD

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:13 AM

http://forums.sabres...000#entry430870

Here's a previous discussion.

Ahh, the Jenny McCarthy defense. Yes, we are all basing our decisions on what she says. :wallbash:

Can we please stop bringing her up?

Edited by SwampD, 20 November 2013 - 09:15 AM.


#24 Claude_Verret

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:22 AM

View PostSwampD, on 20 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

http://forums.sabres...000#entry430870

Here's a previous discussion.

Ahh, the Jenny McCarthy defense. Yes, we are all basing our decisions on what she says. :wallbash:

Can we please stop bringing her up?

in my examples, she was the exact reason why many of those parents chose not to have their now dead children vaccinated.  That woman has blood on her hands.

#25 shrader

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 20 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

in my examples, she was the exact reason why many of those parents chose not to have their now dead children vaccinated.  That woman has blood on her hands.

We might as well go right to the top of that ladder and mention the doctor with the falsified research.

#26 bcardona

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:33 AM

The flu shot is not free. You might not have any out of pocket, but trust the pharmas have cost to study, manufacture, and distribute, and health care providers have cost to inventory and administer it, and none are performing those services under "good will".  Most of the associated revenue is likely either buried in government subsidy or removed from individual wallets via health insurance.  Either way, it costs you. Good marketing by the pharmas, but the primary driver is the media who tee it up every year with their "shortage!" story and "it's been a predicted bad season!".  Fear me!

#27 SwampD

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 20 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

in my examples, she was the exact reason why many of those parents chose not to have their now dead children vaccinated.  That woman has blood on her hands.
It's this kind of hype that I hate. How old? If they were infants, wouldn't they have been too young to have gotten a flu vaccination anyway? And would the strain they got have been covered by that shot that year? I'm not trying to be a dick, just curious.

FTR, my kid has an exemption from the flu shot because she spins around in circles and self injures for the 4 days following a shot.

#28 Sabre Dance

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 09:57 AM

I've only had the 'real' flu twice in my life and it was wicked both times.  The last time was about 20 years ago and I was sick in bed for a week.  It then took another two weeks to gain my normal strength back. Real influenza can be a killer.  Bio and weave correclty point out that what most people call the "flu" is actually either food-borne or a lesser virus.
I've refused the flu shot for the last few years for no other reason than I didn't want the NYS Health Department dictating what I should put in my body (Health care workers must have the vaccine or must wear masks when in a patient care areas.) This year, the Health Department tightened the screws; if you do not have the flu shot, you must wear a mask anytime you are in the hospital, even the cafeteria (unless you are actually eating). I relented and got the shot this year, not because of the state mandate, but because I had a nasty sinus infection this summer and my doctor recommended that I get the shot in case my immune system was still sub-par.  About two hours after the shot, I felt achy and tired but a good night's sleep took care of that.

#29 Claude_Verret

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostSwampD, on 20 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

It's this kind of hype that I hate. How old? If they were infants, wouldn't they have been too young to have gotten a flu vaccination anyway? And would the strain they got have been covered by that shot that year? I'm not trying to be a dick, just curious.

FTR, my kid has an exemption from the flu shot because she spins around in circles and self injures for the 4 days following a shot.

It's only not approved for children younger than 6 months.  For those younger than 2 it is especially important that they DO get vaccinated because they are at much higher risk for serious influenza complications.  Would they have been covered had they got the shot?  More than likely.  Which leads to another misconception, the notion of the shot providing all or nothing protection is also not true.  Even if there is a mismatch between circulating virus and what went into the vaccine you are still going to have some protection against a full blown case of flu.

I mentioned in the other thread that there are certainly many good mostly medical reasons not to get the shot, the case with your child being a good example, but concern that the shot might not be fully effective is a very poor reason not to get what is otherwise a risk free procedure for most people.

#30 weave

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:05 AM

View PostSwampD, on 20 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

It's this kind of hype that I hate. How old? If they were infants, wouldn't they have been too young to have gotten a flu vaccination anyway? And would the strain they got have been covered by that shot that year? I'm not trying to be a dick, just curious.

FTR, my kid has an exemption from the flu shot because she spins around in circles and self injures for the 4 days following a shot.

I would imagine you'd get rather prickly about the direction of this convo given what you have to deal with.

#31 That Aud Smell

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:07 AM

View PostSwampD, on 20 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Ahh, the Jenny McCarthy defense. Yes, we are all basing our decisions on what she says. :wallbash:

Can we please stop bringing her up?
well, there are potentially valid reasons to bring her ... up.

Posted Image

#32 SwampD

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:10 AM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 20 November 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

It's only not approved for children younger than 6 months.  For those younger than 2 it is especially important that they DO get vaccinated because they are at much higher risk for serious influenza complications.  Would they have been covered had they got the shot?  More than likely.  Which leads to another misconception, the notion of the shot providing all or nothing protection is also not true.  Even if there is a mismatch between circulating virus and what went into the vaccine you are still going to have some protection against a full blown case of flu.

I mentioned in the other thread that there are certainly many good mostly medical reasons not to get the shot, the case with your child being a good example, but concern that the shot might not be fully effective is a very poor reason not to get what is otherwise a risk free procedure for most people.
I should also add that that was my main reason for getting the shot this year. Having to care for her if she got the flu while having the flu was a pretty scary thought.

View Postweave, on 20 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I would imagine you'd get rather prickly about the direction of this convo given what you have to deal with.
Well traveled territory by this point. People think what they think and I'm fine with it.

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 20 November 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

well, there are potentially valid reasons to bring her ... up.

Posted Image
YES!

#33 shrader

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 20 November 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

well, there are potentially valid reasons to bring her ... up.

Posted Image

Two reasons, but that's it.

#34 SwampD

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:21 AM

View Postshrader, on 20 November 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Two reasons, but that's it.
The fact that she's insane makes her even hotter.

#35 Claude_Verret

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:22 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 20 November 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

well, there are potentially valid reasons to bring her ... up.

Posted Image

Meh...back during her playboy days sure. She has been on Stern a few times recently and she is even annoying when she's talking about her crazy sex life.

#36 That Aud Smell

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostClaude_Verret, on 20 November 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Meh...back during her playboy days sure. She has been on Stern a few times recently and she is even annoying when she's talking about her crazy sex life.
it's the talking that's the problem.

#37 MattPie

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:37 AM

View PostSwampD, on 20 November 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

The fact that she's insane makes her even hotter.

Nah, she's still under the Mendoza Diagonal, just out in the top right corner. Relatively hot, *really* crazy.

#38 LGR4GM

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostMattPie, on 20 November 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Nah, she's still under the Mendoza Diagonal, just out in the top right corner. Relatively hot, *really* crazy.
Yea the older she gets the more crazy she gets and the less hot she gets. She has strayed across the line and is firmly in crazy territory at this point. Also she has the crazy eyes.

#39 Claude_Verret

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:59 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 20 November 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

as i said in the nolan thread: GI viruses and food borne illnesses didn't cause a brutally fatal pandemic at the end of WWI: influenza did.

Estimated to have killed up to 50 million people worldwide.  Bodies of the dead piled up faster than morgues or undertakers could keep up which caused mass graves in american cities.  This pandemic and the devastation it caused is exactly why you hear so much concern about avian flu and swine flu.  These are not media or government "scare tactics" as history tells us otherwise.  The truly chilling part of the 1918 pandemic is that unlike seasonal flu that largely kills the very young and elderly, this one killed millions upon millions of otherwise healthy 20-40 year old adults.

An excellent read written from a mostly non scientific perspective that I recommend highly:

The Great Influenza

#40 LTS

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:02 PM

So, late to the OT thread.  First I apologize to Claude_Verret for taking such a tone in my response in the other thread.  It's not a coin flip.. but certainly not the guarantee as the industry makes it.

My biggest issues with this vaccination are as follows:

1. My experience with the flu.  Two times the shot, two times the flu.  Both times were the times I received the shot.  As I said elsewhere, I KNOW it does not cause the flu, but it sure as heck didn't prevent it.  Meanwhile, in other years I've been pretty healthy.

2. From working in a hospital for so long and fighting the powers that be on the effectiveness of forcing healthcare workers to get a flu shot.  In the grand scheme of things it's not all that effective.  Even with a flu shot it does not prevent anyone from carrying the virus.  It doesn't protect the at-risk patients.  Hospitals already have policies that prevent healthcare workers who are exhibiting signs of illness from working with patients.  Furthermore, hospitals are high traffic areas that are visited by the sick.  There is no shortage of infection.  Thorough cleaning is the best defense in a healthcare environment.  Of course they drill hand washing into everyone because it really is the most effective means to reduce potential infections.

3. Like many other industries the inter-relations between pharmaceuticals and government is disgusting.  I'm not about to trust most of the blanket statements that are made by either.  Pharmaceuticals are almost the equivalent of natural resources when it comes to some of the shady dealings.  I admit this is a sweeping generalization and it doesn't apply everywhere but there's enough out there to make me question things.

4. The flu shot advertisements are too dramatic.  I get that they are trying to hammer home that if you are at high risk you really should consider getting the flue (or if you care for a high risk patient).  Still, it bothers me the wrong way and I think it causes people to not think critically about it before just doing it.

I don't tell people to ever not get the flu shot.  However, I don't believe in blindly following recommendations.  My reasons are largely based on my first reason above with the rest falling in line to support it my mindset even more.  I believe in being exposed to things.  I think people who put themselves at risk are the kind of people who live in a germophobic manner.  They are always cleaning, always using hand sanitizer, they reduce their exposure to germs to next to nothing.  They always seems to be sick.  In fact, I think there was some research done at one point about overuse of hand sanitizer being a an issue.

Anyway.. that's just my take.