Jump to content


GM Speculation


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
1033 replies to this topic

#1 Eleven

Eleven

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,673 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:57 AM

Well, we know Botterill has permission to speak with the Sabres now.

#2 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,478 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:05 AM

Honestly Botterill is my front runner simply because he is young, smart, and has 5 years as an assistant GM. Seems though some of the other candidates are strong ones as well.  I don't want another yes man I will say that but I don't want Milbury 2.0 either.

#3 Heimdall

Heimdall

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brussels, Belgium

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:06 AM

Any gm they take, they can consider peca and shanahan as assistant gm.   Those two will be interviewing for the job.

#4 nobody

nobody

    Title? Someday...

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,126 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:nowhere

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:07 AM

Jim Benning (current Bruin assistant GM) is being mentioned as a possible candidate for Sabres GM.  I believe he was Director of Amateur Scouting when Stafford was drafted.

#5 Eleven

Eleven

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,673 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

View PostHeimdall, on 14 November 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Any gm they take, they can consider peca and shanahan as assistant gm.   Those two will be interviewing for the job.

Shanahan can suspend Sabres from within!

#6 CallawaySabres

CallawaySabres

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,136 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:12 AM

I have no reason to believe that he could do a good job but for some reason, I can't get Messier off the brain. Something about having Messier and LaFontaine steering this ship makes me think there is no way they could fail.

#7 d4rksabre

d4rksabre

    This pleases Nikita

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,227 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 14 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I have no reason to believe that he could do a good job but for some reason, I can't get Messier off the brain. Something about having Messier and LaFontaine steering this ship makes me think there is no way they could fail.

I have a mental picture of them high-fiving at the draft and it's hilarious.

#8 Heimdall

Heimdall

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brussels, Belgium

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

Messier is employed by edmonton, so they would have ask to talk to him.

#9 Icehole

Icehole

    Goon Squad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,612 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:20 AM

Messier would be interesting.  I think Shanny would get booed.

#10 ROC Sabres

ROC Sabres

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,414 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:25 AM

View PostNorth Buffalo, on 14 November 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Messier would be interesting.  I think Shanny would get booed.
No more than Darcy has been. :P

#11 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,639 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:29 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 14 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I have no reason to believe that he could do a good job but for some reason, I can't get Messier off the brain. Something about having Messier and LaFontaine steering this ship makes me think there is no way they could fail.

I think you need a "leadership/charisma/big picture" guy and a "nuts and bolts/player personnel/trade market/salary cap" guy.  Lafontaine and Messier both seem like they fit into the former category, and neither into the latter.

#12 Icehole

Icehole

    Goon Squad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,612 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:32 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 14 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

I think you need a "leadership/charisma/big picture" guy and a "nuts and bolts/player personnel/trade market/salary cap" guy.  Lafontaine and Messier both seem like they fit into the former category, and neither into the latter.
Agreed, you don't need two of them... So what do you think about a Shanny... is he a nuts and bolts guy... I think he is more a compliant guy with whatever they tell him to do...  So I don't think he would fit either.

#13 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,527 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

I wouldn't have a problem with Botterill as I'm generally in favor of aiming high, even if the floor is low.  I do wonder how much he has done with player personnel though, because from what I've read he's the Pens' cap/contract guy.

#14 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,639 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostNorth Buffalo, on 14 November 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Agreed, you don't need two of them... So what do you think about a Shanny... is he a nuts and bolts guy... I think he is more a compliant guy with whatever they tell him to do...  So I don't think he would fit either.

Shanny doesn't seem like a nuts-and-bolts guy either.  I think the right call is a Botteril or Dudley or someone else from outside the Sabres' organization who has been doing GM/Assistant GM work for a number of years.

Now, I wouldn't mind having a Shanny or Messier as an assistant GM if that guy would want to learn the ropes on a nuts and bolts (holy mixed metaphor) role.  The more greatness in the organization, the better.

#15 Chester Springs Rich

Chester Springs Rich

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 20 posts

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:41 AM

Quiet dark horse wild card - Jim Schonfield

#16 d4rksabre

d4rksabre

    This pleases Nikita

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,227 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:44 AM

View PostChester Springs Rich, on 14 November 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Quiet dark horse wild card - Jim Schonfield

Who?

#17 dudacek

dudacek

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:High and wide

Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:49 AM

I think Messier would be a disaster, but I've got a different perspective than most being on the West Coast and watching the arrogant,  divisive, selfish way he conducted himself in Vancouver.

Ask yourself, given the man's legendary leadership skills, why hasn't he been offered a job like this already?

#18 CallawaySabres

CallawaySabres

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,136 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:01 AM

View Postdudacek, on 14 November 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I think Messier would be a disaster, but I've got a different perspective than most being on the West Coast and watching the arrogant,  divisive, selfish way he conducted himself in Vancouver.

Ask yourself, given the man's legendary leadership skills, why hasn't he been offered a job like this already?

I thought he turned down the Rangers for some position, maybe I'm wrong

#19 dudacek

dudacek

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:High and wide

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:15 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 14 November 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:



I thought he turned down the Rangers for some position, maybe I'm wrong
I thought he left the Rangers because he didn't get the position he wanted.

#20 Eleven

Eleven

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,673 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

View Postdudacek, on 14 November 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

I thought he left the Rangers because he didn't get the position he wanted.

I think this is right.

#21 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,527 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:18 AM

Pretty sure Messier wanted to replace Torts, and he left the organization shortly after the job was given to Vigneault.  He says they were unrelated, but I really don't believe that.

#22 papazoid

papazoid

    Top Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostEleven, on 14 November 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Well, we know Botterill has permission to speak with the Sabres now.

he is known as a salary cap expert. exactly the part of the GM job patty is probably uncomfortable with.

#23 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,478 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:32 AM

Here is a write up on Botterill
http://www.pensburgh...sburgh-penguins

http://blogs.buffalo...-botterill.html

#24 3putt

3putt

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 172 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 14 November 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I wouldn't have a problem with Botterill as I'm generally in favor of aiming high, even if the floor is low.  I do wonder how much he has done with player personnel though, because from what I've read he's the Pens' cap/contract guy.
Do you know what that entails? Being the cap/contract guy means that you are required to understand the value of every talent asset in the organization from Junior through the show. Further your job is the know this for every other team in the league as well.  Knowing the relative value of your assets and maximizing the production of those assets (picks, players, good contracts) and mitigating the downside of liabilities (bad contracts, no picks) in relation to a minimum and maximum spending ban is the NEW NHL.  It is what needs to be Generally Managed, hence the job title.  Assembling rosters must be done within this framework.  Talent evaluation and development are a part, for sure, but only one aspect.  Assemble an adequate top 6, top 3/4 D and goaltender and you are a playoff team.  Maximize those in relation the rest of the competition and you are a cup contender.  Do it Consistently and you are Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston San Jose, or Anaheim.  Do it Sporadically and you are Vancouver, Ottawa Philly or the Leafs.  There are few hidden gems in the information age and building a flexible human capital management structure is the new reality.  I would take, Botterill, Will or Brisebough in a heart beat.  Than again I could be mistaken. ...nevermind.

#25 sicknfla

sicknfla

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 646 posts

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:35 AM

Or do they go established (Dudley) and a Ass. GM like Shanahan or Peca? This way you give Patty the option to assume the GM role in a few years or if he is comfortable in his current role you then turn it over to the Ass. GM. Hiring a young guy like Botteril pretty much takes Patty out of any GM role in the future. Unless of course he fails miserably and gets canned. That is the last thing we want to happen.

So I guess a lot of this comes down to what Pat sees himself doing in a few years.

#26 rickshaw

rickshaw

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,952 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kelowna BC Canada

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:35 AM

View Postdudacek, on 14 November 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I think Messier would be a disaster, but I've got a different perspective than most being on the West Coast and watching the arrogant,  divisive, selfish way he conducted himself in Vancouver.

Ask yourself, given the man's legendary leadership skills, why hasn't he been offered a job like this already?

Bingo!!!
He came here (Vancouver) and basically chummed up to Keenan and then the team was a complete shambles for years. I hope to high heaven they don't hire him.

Edited by rickshaw, 14 November 2013 - 07:54 PM.


#27 ThirtyEight

ThirtyEight

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,702 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford, UK

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:46 AM

Dudley, Smith or Botterill. My bet is Smith

#28 DGW54321

DGW54321

    Welcome back Ted!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 622 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germantown, TN

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:51 AM

Don't know where to post this, but didn't LaF say that new GM won't come on board until off season?  If so, he and Devine will decide on Miller and other deadline deals....correct?

#29 SabresBillsFan

SabresBillsFan

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,100 posts

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:53 AM

Part of me wants Peca in some job for the Sabres. What position I don't know but would love to see him back.

#30 matter2003

matter2003

    Fourth Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 894 posts

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

Wouldn't it be funny if both Buffalo sports team cherry picked young, up and coming GMs from Pittsburgh within a year of each other?

At least it finally shows they might be getting it right after all these years...

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 14 November 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Part of me wants Peca in some job for the Sabres. What position I don't know but would love to see him back.

If I'm not mistaken, he still lives here. I know he married a girl I went to grade school with who is from here

#31 TrueBluePhD

TrueBluePhD

    First Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,527 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cheektowaga, NY

Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:56 AM

View Post3putt, on 14 November 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Do you know what that entails? Being the cap/contract guy means that you are required to understand the value of every talent asset in the organization from Junior through the show. Further your job is the know this for every other team in the league as well.  Knowing the relative value of your assets and maximizing the production of those assets (picks, players, good contracts) and mitigating the downside of liabilities (bad contracts, no picks) in relation to a minimum and maximum spending ban is the NEW NHL.  It is what needs to be Generally Managed, hence the job title.  Assembling rosters must be done within this framework.  Talent evaluation and development are a part, for sure, but only one aspect.  Assemble an adequate top 6, top 3/4 D and goaltender and you are a playoff team.  Maximize those in relation the rest of the competition and you are a cup contender.  Do it Consistently and you are Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston San Jose, or Anaheim.  Do it Sporadically and you are Vancouver, Ottawa Philly or the Leafs.  There are few hidden gems in the information age and building a flexible human capital management structure is the new reality.  I would take, Botterill, Will or Brisebough in a heart beat.  Than again I could be mistaken. ...nevermind.

You could be right.  It's just when I hear "cap guy" I think of Jim Overdorf, and I wouldn't want Jim Overdorf as Bills' GM.  How much of Botterill's job is determining which players should be retained or sought out, versus simply being told who to target and then mechanically doing the negotiation and finding a way to make the money work?  These are very different things.  That said, the more I read about Botterill, the more I like the idea.

#32 nucci

nucci

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wilmington, DE

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:07 PM

View PostChester Springs Rich, on 14 November 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Quiet dark horse wild card - Jim Schonfield
I would never watch the Sabres again. The most overrated Sabre of all time.

#33 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,144 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:15 PM

View Postmatter2003, on 14 November 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

If I'm not mistaken, he still lives here. I know he married a girl I went to grade school with who is from here

He's GM of the junior Sabres.

#34 tom webster

tom webster

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,973 posts

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:19 PM

View Postmatter2003, on 14 November 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Wouldn't it be funny if both Buffalo sports team cherry picked young, up and coming GMs from Pittsburgh within a year of each other?

At least it finally shows they might be getting it right after all these years...



If I'm not mistaken, he still lives here. I know he married a girl I went to grade school with who is from here

He is coach and GM of Junior Sabres so if he doesn't live here, he is here about 9 months out of the year.

#35 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    Texting Nun

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,870 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:28 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 11 October 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

The names Bucky has touted the past few years makes sense in a sort of 3 headed monster. Dudley/Botterill/Lafontaine.

Dudley likes to stay behind the scenes, but is a good talent evaluator and architect. Let him strategize, Botterill does a lot of the leg work and maybe oversees the scouting department and such. And Lafontaine is the public face that is 100% respected and trusted by players and fans alike. He could be the liaison between the hockey and business department, between Rochester and Buffalo, and between the team and the public for important hockey matters.

I'm not sure if it would be a case of too many cooks, but they all could be highly efficient at a key role. If Patty tells me we need to be patient, I'll handle it. If Darcy tells me that, I want a stray meteor to strike the podium.

There are plenty of options out there, but if Pegula is intent on coddling ex-Sabres, this is at least a B+ solution given an open market.

I'm sticking to my guns....

Get Dudley AND Botterill.

It can be a Nix/Whaley idea.... Dudley is older and a migrant to begin with. He doesn't like the limelight. You have Lafontaine to do media stuff and Botterill to oversee Devine and scouting while having the financial wherewithal to boot. Botterill and Patty can continue to learn under Dudley, and in a few years when you are ready to release the bird with the broken wing back into the wild, you go forward with just the 2 and let Duds retire into an advisory role.

It's really like a Pentagon operation. Patty is the Secretary of Defense, Dudley is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Botterill is the Secretary of Field Operations, and Nolan is your 5 star General.

I guess that makes Ted Black Secretary of State



#36 nfreeman

nfreeman

    All I want is everything you got.

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,639 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brooklyn

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:31 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 14 November 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:


Good stuff.  Thanks for posting.

I must say, I really liked this:

Quote

Botterill, 37, is a rising star in NHL management circles. He graduated from the University of Michigan, was a 1st round draft pick but only played 88 career NHL games before concussions ended his playing career in 2005. However, it’d far from be the end of his life in hockey, as Botterill has worked with the NHL offices and also as a scout with the Dallas Stars. He also found time to get his MBA from Michigan after his playing days concluded and has been an employee of the Penguins since 2007, first as "director of hockey administration" and then was promoted in 2009 to Assistant GM once Chuck Fletcher got hired by the Minnesota Wild as GM.

I'm totally on board with him, if he's the guy.

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 14 November 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm sticking to my guns....

Get Dudley AND Botterill.

It can be a Nix/Whaley idea.... Dudley is older and a migrant to begin with. He doesn't like the limelight. You have Lafontaine to do media stuff and Botterill to oversee Devine and scouting while having the financial wherewithal to boot. Botterill and Patty can continue to learn under Dudley, and in a few years when you are ready to release the bird with the broken wing back into the wild, you go forward with just the 2 and let Duds retire into an advisory role.

It's really like a Pentagon operation. Patty is the Secretary of Defense, Dudley is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Botterill is the Secretary of Field Operations, and Nolan is your 5 star General.

I guess that makes Ted Black Secretary of State

That works for me too.

#37 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:33 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 14 November 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm sticking to my guns....

Get Dudley AND Botterill.

It can be a Nix/Whaley idea.... Dudley is older and a migrant to begin with. He doesn't like the limelight. You have Lafontaine to do media stuff and Botterill to oversee Devine and scouting while having the financial wherewithal to boot. Botterill and Patty can continue to learn under Dudley, and in a few years when you are ready to release the bird with the broken wing back into the wild, you go forward with just the 2 and let Duds retire into an advisory role.

It's really like a Pentagon operation. Patty is the Secretary of Defense, Dudley is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Botterill is the Secretary of Field Operations, and Nolan is your 5 star General.

I guess that makes Ted Black Secretary of State

Why would Botterill leave the Pens for the Sabres just to stay as an assistant to the GM?

#38 Tankalicious

Tankalicious

    Sam Reinhart, please

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,399 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 14 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:



Why would Botterill leave the Pens for the Sabres just to stay as an assistant to the GM?

Exactly

#39 3putt

3putt

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 172 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:48 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 14 November 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

You could be right.  It's just when I hear "cap guy" I think of Jim Overdorf, and I wouldn't want Jim Overdorf as Bills' GM.  How much of Botterill's job is determining which players should be retained or sought out, versus simply being told who to target and then mechanically doing the negotiation and finding a way to make the money work?  These are very different things.  That said, the more I read about Botterill, the more I like the idea.
I think the solid organizations are relying more on analytics and big data to determine who is contributing and who is not which determines the next process in the chain.  With some insight from the work with the Hawks (consulting to a Hawks consultant) they have created quite a few firewalls to prevent falling in love with a prospect.  They would rather pay for production.  A good example is Jack Skille who they dumped and Leddy who they picked up.  The numbers dictated that move to a large extent.  The 900 pound gorilla for them is the Hossa contract, whose acquisition put them over the top.  Don't be surprised if he is jettisoned this off-season.  Why?  Because the numbers say that they have similar production waiting in the pipeline and at a lower cost.  My point is like it or not, the truest measure of a GM's talent today is the ability to make the tough decisions that impact a team enterprise wide, not the ability to assemble a roster for any given period.  More and more those decisions are data driven and less instinctual.  Numbers do not lie but sometimes perception does.

#40 Rico7

Rico7

    Top Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 419 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere Else

Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 14 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Why would Botterill leave the Pens for the Sabres just to stay as an assistant to the GM?

$$$$$$$