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Why should we be upset? They are succeeding


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#1 matter2003

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

The Sabres stated goal is to get as high a draft pick as possible. It has been said going back to last season and pretty often, which is surprising for any pro sports team to admit. They are succeeding beyond their wildest dreams right now.

Why are we upset? This is what they want...suck so bad we get the #1 pick in the draft.

Long term it might be for the best if they end up like Pittsburgh/Chicago and not like Edmonton...

Short term it sucks, but its not like they didn't let everyone know what they were trying to do. I think people are upset because they didn't expect it to be this bad, but the Sabres are probably thrilled

#2 Tankalicious

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:00 PM

View Postmatter2003, on 24 October 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

The Sabres stated goal is to get as high a draft pick as possible. It has been said going back to last season and pretty often, which is surprising for any pro sports team to admit. They are succeeding beyond their wildest dreams right now.

Why are we upset? This is what they want...suck so bad we get the #1 pick in the draft.

Long term it might be for the best if they end up like Pittsburgh/Chicago and not like Edmonton...

Short term it sucks, but its not like they didn't let everyone know what they were trying to do. I think people are upset because they didn't expect it to be this bad, but the Sabres are probably thrilled

No they didn't.


And, for the record, I'm not upset that the team sucks. I just want to make sure we have the right decision makers in place for when the team doesn't suck. And I don't really want Darcy's hands 100% all over the future. I'd like a new GM to at least make a few decisions on the rebuild (such as trading Vanek, Miller, Ott).

Edited by DStebb, 24 October 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#3 sicknfla

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

A free pass to suck is not acceptable. They could see the writing on the wall and decided to try to have us buy this rebuild through the draft crap. Poor drafts, FA signings, and allowing players to leave is what created this mess. Have at it Darcy. Try try try again.

#4 wonderbread

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

Lather rinse repeat as necessary.

#5 beerme1

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:10 PM

I am upset. It doesn't need to be like this. AND we could end up like the Oil anyways!
Long run, No Darcy, No Ron and we end up like Pitt or Chi I'm good with. Lets say we are going the way of Chi right now. Would you trust Darcy to tear it down after winning a cup and then rebuild on the fly to not only stay competitive but also win another?
Ya, me neither.

#6 Tankalicious

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:51 PM

For the record, in order to go through a rebuild there are one of two conditions:

1. You are an aging team who has had multiple studs retire after a long period of success but are now on the decline.

2. You really ###### up and now have to tear it all apart and start over again.




For some weird reason number one doesn't sound like Buffalo.

#7 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:14 AM

And what are the odds of getting the top pick for finishing dead last?

#8 thesportsbuff

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:29 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 25 October 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

And what are the odds of getting the top pick for finishing dead last?

Below are the percentage odds of last year's bottom 14 teams on winning the draft lottery. I imagine 25% would be a "flat rate" # and thus apply to this year as well, but I can't say for sure whether or not the percentages change based on how far behind they are (ie if 20-60-2 last place Sabres have 25% shot, do 10-70-2 sabres have 30% shot?) Anyway safe to say it is about a 1-in-4 or better. And at worst you pick #2.

1st - 25.0% - Florida Panthers
2nd - 18.8% - Colorado Avalanche
3rd - 14.2% - Tampa Bay Lightning
4th - 10.7% - Nashville Predators
5th - 8.1% - Carolina Hurricanes
6th - 6.2% - Calgary Flames
7th - 4.7% - Edmonton Oilers
8th - 3.6% - Buffalo Sabres
9th - 2.7% - New Jersey Devils
10th - 2.1% - Dallas Stars
11th - 1.5% - Philadelphia Flyers
12th - 1.1% - Phoenix Coyotes
13th - 0.8% - Winnipeg Jets
14th - 0.5% - Columbus Blue Jackets

Edited by thesportsbuff, 25 October 2013 - 12:30 AM.


#9 neverenough

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:10 AM

Darcy couldn't pick a giraffe in a herd of elephants.

#10 K-9

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:33 AM

View Postneverenough, on 25 October 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Darcy couldn't pick a giraffe in a herd of elephants.

I wouldn't, either. That's gotta be one dumbass giraffe.

GO SABRES!!!

#11 shrader

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:41 AM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 25 October 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Below are the percentage odds of last year's bottom 14 teams on winning the draft lottery. I imagine 25% would be a "flat rate" # and thus apply to this year as well, but I can't say for sure whether or not the percentages change based on how far behind they are (ie if 20-60-2 last place Sabres have 25% shot, do 10-70-2 sabres have 30% shot?) Anyway safe to say it is about a 1-in-4 or better. And at worst you pick #2.

1st - 25.0% - Florida Panthers
2nd - 18.8% - Colorado Avalanche
3rd - 14.2% - Tampa Bay Lightning
4th - 10.7% - Nashville Predators
5th - 8.1% - Carolina Hurricanes
6th - 6.2% - Calgary Flames
7th - 4.7% - Edmonton Oilers
8th - 3.6% - Buffalo Sabres
9th - 2.7% - New Jersey Devils
10th - 2.1% - Dallas Stars
11th - 1.5% - Philadelphia Flyers
12th - 1.1% - Phoenix Coyotes
13th - 0.8% - Winnipeg Jets
14th - 0.5% - Columbus Blue Jackets

This year also has the weird case of how they decide to handle New Jersey's pick since it will be forfeited.  I'm assuming they will include that pick in the lottery anyway so that the percentages "remain the same" and New Jersey faces the chance of the additional shame of winning the lottery and then handing back the pick.

So this year will be an odd case.  The team who finishes worst will actually wind up with higher odds than normal.  They'll have their 25% chance plus whatever odds New Jersey has.  If the Devils win that worst team gets bumped to #2.  But since New Jersey loses theirs, #2 becomes #1.

#12 frisky

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:03 AM

This years draft isnt the one that matters as much as 2015. They got to be the worst by then. Its the sidney crosby blueprint. Bottom out in the year it matters. Connor McDavid is the key generational talent like crosby. Top 3 this year is good. Once we ditch vanek and miller we should super suck next year. Im on board if we can get that shot a him. You build championship teams around players like him. IMO we've been putting together the supporting cast but he the crown jewel that will make it go.

#13 DGW54321

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:10 AM

Bettman will stack the ping pong balls to make sure we do not win the draft lottery.

#14 Kristian

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

View Postmatter2003, on 24 October 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

The Sabres stated goal is to get as high a draft pick as possible. It has been said going back to last season and pretty often, which is surprising for any pro sports team to admit. They are succeeding beyond their wildest dreams right now.

Why are we upset? This is what they want...suck so bad we get the #1 pick in the draft.

Long term it might be for the best if they end up like Pittsburgh/Chicago and not like Edmonton...

Short term it sucks, but its not like they didn't let everyone know what they were trying to do. I think people are upset because they didn't expect it to be this bad, but the Sabres are probably thrilled

Drafting high means little, if the wrong people are doing the drafting.

To put it another way - A team with Regier at the helm will never succeed in anything but being a poorly run hockey team.

#15 That Aud Smell

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostKristian, on 25 October 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Drafting high means little, if the wrong people are doing the drafting.


Haven't you been listening to White on WGR? A giraffe could get it right so long as you're in the top 3.

#16 inkman

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

I'm no Darcy apologist but a monkey could get the 1st pick overall correct.

#17 SwampD

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:21 AM

View Postinkman, on 25 October 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

I'm no Darcy apologist but a monkey could get the 1st pick overall correct.
And yet somehow Edmonton got it wrong and we don't want that guy. :wallbash:

#18 Tankalicious

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:26 AM

View Postshrader, on 25 October 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

This year also has the weird case of how they decide to handle New Jersey's pick since it will be forfeited.  I'm assuming they will include that pick in the lottery anyway so that the percentages "remain the same" and New Jersey faces the chance of the additional shame of winning the lottery and then handing back the pick.

So this year will be an odd case.  The team who finishes worst will actually wind up with higher odds than normal.  They'll have their 25% chance plus whatever odds New Jersey has.  If the Devils win that worst team gets bumped to #2.  But since New Jersey loses theirs, #2 becomes #1.

We won't know if New Jersey wins the lottery, though. Unless "sources" report it. Because we don't see the ping pong balls. Those happen in a hidden place, and then they place the teams in order in the envelopes. So it'll likely start with the 13th pick. Anybody who finished behind NJ will just move up one spot.

But yes, that would technically mean that JUST the worst team or the first team behind NJ will have a slightly better shot at winning the lottery.

Edited by DStebb, 25 October 2013 - 11:27 AM.


#19 Kristian

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 25 October 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

[/size]

Haven't you been listening to White on WGR? A giraffe could get it right so long as you're in the top 3.

That's good, cause at this point I'm pretty sure Regier has the IQ of one, though I may be insultning a fine animal.

#20 inkman

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

View PostSwampD, on 25 October 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

And yet somehow Edmonton got it wrong and we don't want that guy. :wallbash:
He led them in goals last year.  I think you are being sarcastic so I don't know how that applies.

#21 shrader

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

View PostDStebb, on 25 October 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

We won't know if New Jersey wins the lottery, though. Unless "sources" report it. Because we don't see the ping pong balls. Those happen in a hidden place, and then they place the teams in order in the envelopes. So it'll likely start with the 13th pick. Anybody who finished behind NJ will just move up one spot.

But yes, that would technically mean that JUST the worst team or the first team behind NJ will have a slightly better shot at winning the lottery.

They only make one drawing.  Which ever team is drawn gets #1.  Slots 2-14 remain in the order of the standings.  So there is no mystery to the system.  Whoever picks first won the one and only draw.

#22 qwksndmonster

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:59 AM

View Postinkman, on 25 October 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

He led them in goals last year.  I think you are being sarcastic so I don't know how that applies.
I think it's a dig at the people who don't want him like Liger and... I'm sure there's some others.

Edited by qwksndmonster, 25 October 2013 - 12:00 PM.


#23 Tankalicious

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:07 PM

View Postshrader, on 25 October 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

They only make one drawing.  Which ever team is drawn gets #1.  Slots 2-14 remain in the order of the standings.  So there is no mystery to the system.  Whoever picks first won the one and only draw.

I know. Hence why I said ONLY the worst team or the worst team behind NJ get a better chance because if NJ wins the lottery then that team still get the first pick. Only one team can move up and a team can only move down one slot. Unlike the NBA where the top 3 picks are actually in a lottery.

Edited by DStebb, 25 October 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#24 lalalalalaFontaine

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:29 PM

Why should we be upset?  Because it didn't have to come to this.  We have a GM that doesn't know his ars from a hole in the ground that got us into this predicament and is now in charge of getting us out?  He's duped three different owners into thinking that he knows how to get this done.  This "suffering" that Ted Black was talking about again on WGR could take another 10 years with Darcy at the helm.  And then it will be another excuse if (when) it backfires!!!

#25 shrader

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:33 PM

View PostDStebb, on 25 October 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I know. Hence why I said ONLY the worst team or the worst team behind NJ get a better chance because if NJ wins the lottery then that team still get the first pick. Only one team can move up and a team can only move down one slot. Unlike the NBA where the top 3 picks are actually in a lottery.

I'm not sure why you said we wouldn't know if New Jersey won.  If you go with what I suggested originally that they include the Devils in the lottery, you'll know if they do win it.  The league would announce them as having the #1 pick.  That's my whole premise.  New Jersey needs to be included in the lottery (if they do miss the playoffs) and everyone needs to be informed if they do win it.  By doing that, there's an extra sting from the punishment for the Kovalchuk contract.

So here is a quick summary of what I said earlier.  If New Jersey is included in the lottery (and they should be), the team that finishes worst in the league has a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick plus whatever odds New Jersey had of winning the lottery.

#26 Tankalicious

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:10 PM

View Postshrader, on 25 October 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I'm not sure why you said we wouldn't know if New Jersey won.  If you go with what I suggested originally that they include the Devils in the lottery, you'll know if they do win it.  The league would announce them as having the #1 pick.  That's my whole premise.  New Jersey needs to be included in the lottery (if they do miss the playoffs) and everyone needs to be informed if they do win it.  By doing that, there's an extra sting from the punishment for the Kovalchuk contract.

So here is a quick summary of what I said earlier.  If New Jersey is included in the lottery (and they should be), the team that finishes worst in the league has a 25% chance of getting the #1 pick plus whatever odds New Jersey had of winning the lottery.

No, they probably wouldn't announce it. There is a separate "event" that isn't aired in which the order is chosen. Then the team logos are placed in envelopes for the lottery show. So the league would likely have NJ in the lottery event to keep the odds the same, but they wouldn't announce them as having the pick so they would avoid any confusion.

I get that it would be a nice way for the league to get an extra dig in on NJ, but I highly doubt they would do that just to avoid confusion.

Edited by DStebb, 25 October 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#27 shrader

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostDStebb, on 25 October 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

No, they probably wouldn't announce it. There is a separate "event" that isn't aired in which the order is chosen. Then the team logos are placed in envelopes for the lottery show. So the league would likely have NJ in the lottery event to keep the odds the same, but they wouldn't announce them as having the pick so they would avoid any confusion.

I get that it would be a nice way for the league to get an extra dig in on NJ, but I highly doubt they would do that just to avoid confusion.

I think that little bit of drama with the Devils would actually get a few more people to watch the lottery results.  The league will mention it when the time comes.

#28 Tankalicious

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

View Postshrader, on 25 October 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

I think that little bit of drama with the Devils would actually get a few more people to watch the lottery results.  The league will mention it when the time comes.

It likely won't matter because I see NJ finishing somewhere around 8 or so which would kill this drama.

#29 shrader

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostDStebb, on 25 October 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

It likely won't matter because I see NJ finishing somewhere around 8 or so which would kill this drama.

That's a tough division.  Pittsburgh and Washington will probably be locks and I have a hard time seeing the Rags stay towards the bottom.  That would only leave 1-2 spots open for them.  So the big questions wind up being if Columbus and the Isles can continue their rise from last year and if Carolina can finally break through.

On that note, I've seen a couple people mention the 7th or 8th spot.  I wonder how long it will take for the new playoff system to set into people's minds.

Edited by shrader, 25 October 2013 - 02:09 PM.


#30 Tankalicious

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

View Postshrader, on 25 October 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

That's a tough division.  Pittsburgh and Washington will probably be locks and I have a hard time seeing the Rags stay towards the bottom.  That would only leave 1-2 spots open for them.  So the big questions wind up being if Columbus and the Isles can continue their rise from last year and if Carolina can finally break through.

On that note, I've seen a couple people mention the 7th or 8th spot.  I wonder how long it will take for the new playoff system to set into people's minds.

I meant 8th overall pick, not 8th in the conference.

#31 SwampD

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:05 PM

View Postinkman, on 25 October 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

He led them in goals last year.  I think you are being sarcastic so I don't know how that applies.

View Postqwksndmonster, on 25 October 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

I think it's a dig at the people who don't want him like Liger and... I'm sure there's some others.
Yep.



Doesn't NJ have to be included in the drawing because that is their place in subsequent rounds?

#32 sicknfla

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostKristian, on 25 October 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:



That's good, cause at this point I'm pretty sure Regier has the IQ of one, though I may be insultning a fine animal.



That was good

#33 krt88

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

yeah but why do we decide to completely suck in the wrong year?  This years draft class is OK but not great and there's no clear cut #1 guy.  Totally sucking last year would have been nice and in 2015 would be great too.

#34 Tankalicious

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

View Postkrt88, on 25 October 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

yeah but why do we decide to completely suck in the wrong year?  This years draft class is OK but not great and there's no clear cut #1 guy.  Totally sucking last year would have been nice and in 2015 would be great too.

Definitely. In the middle of two great drafts. But I do think that Reinhart or Nylander could be two VERY good pros. Heck, there is always a chance they turn out better than anybody from the other two drafts. I want Reinhart.

#35 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:10 PM

View Postkrt88, on 25 October 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

yeah but why do we decide to completely suck in the wrong year?  This years draft class is OK but not great and there's no clear cut #1 guy.  Totally sucking last year would have been nice and in 2015 would be great too.

Vanek, Miller, and Ott likely gone next year...I'm pretty sure we'll be in the thick of it for #1 next year too.

#36 ALF

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:59 AM

It felt good to even beat Florida on 10/25. Losing would demoralize the young players and fans unless we could get another Wayne Gretzky. Just take any pressure off the players and coaches and see what works for next season.

#37 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

I just love the irony in seeing all these posts about Darcy's inability to draft while the vast majority of this board continues to praise Zadorov, Risto and Girgensons like there's no tomorrow.

#38 inkman

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 26 October 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

I just love the irony in seeing all these posts about Darcy's inability to draft while the vast majority of this board continues to praise Zadorov, Risto and Girgensons like there's no tomorrow.
Unfortunately, Darcy's perception will lie with Grigorenko more so than those you mentioned or Pysyk and Foligno.

#39 Robviously

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

View Postinkman, on 26 October 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Unfortunately, Darcy's perception will lie with Grigorenko more so than those you mentioned or Pysyk and Foligno.
Not just because they picked him, but also because they presented him as a new franchise player and shoved him into full-time NHL service way too soon.  He's already a symbol of this franchise's incompetence, regardless of if he ever develops into a decent NHL player.

They could have used #12 on Girgensons, used the later 1st round pick on someone else (Henrik Samuelsson), and had an extra 2nd round pick too.

#40 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:27 PM

View PostRobviously, on 26 October 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Not just because they picked him, but also because they presented him as a new franchise player and shoved him into full-time NHL service way too soon.  He's already a symbol of this franchise's incompetence, regardless of if he ever develops into a decent NHL player.

They could have used #12 on Girgensons, used the later 1st round pick on someone else (Henrik Samuelsson), and had an extra 2nd round pick too.

There's that hindsight thing again.