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So what IS the identity of this team


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#1 CallawaySabres

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:42 AM

If this team is going to suck (and they do), what exactly are the fans supposed to look for over the next several months? Who are they building around? It's not Vanek, Hodgson is not a centerpiece, not Miller, Myers - ugh. I can take the losses but what is there to watch here? Defense? Offense?

They say they want to be hard to play against so I assume that is their identity this year. Are you kidding me FO? I would be on board with this suffering if even THAT was true but it's not. I see no direction on this team so get rid of Vanek and Miller sooner than later and get this heaping pile of $&#% season over and done with instead of carrying it into next year. Buy Leino out and trade stafford for nothing.

Stop pretending this season is anything but a waste of my season ticket money and get on with it. Hockey freakin Heaven, what in the world were they thinking. Open your eyes Pegula and chop off the head of this disgraceful team. Next year HAS to be new GM, a real coach (thanks Ron for teaching the youngins for a year) and the #1 pick. Now THAT is something to look forward to.....

#2 bunomatic

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:48 AM

I understand the frustration but we are in reality about 4 games into a rebuild. Next season 5 or 6 of these guys if not more will be gone. The identity will evolve as the team does.

Edited by bunomatic, 09 October 2013 - 08:52 AM.


#3 CallawaySabres

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:53 AM

View Postbunomatic, on 09 October 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

I understand the frustration but we are in reality about 4 games into a rebuild. Next season 5 or 6 of these guys could be gone. The identity will evolve as the team does.

Yes, but as the team is constructed right now, the TRUE rebuild has not yet started. THIS is the problem I have

#4 Eleven

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:01 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Yes, but as the team is constructed right now, the TRUE rebuild has not yet started. THIS is the problem I have

I get what you are saying.  There is no identity right now.  It's 2002 again.

#5 LGR4GM

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Yes, but as the team is constructed right now, the TRUE rebuild has not yet started. THIS is the problem I have
Yes it has.  Once you ship out all but 2 of your past core... you are rebuilding.

#6 zow2

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:30 AM

This teams identity is to get dominated 5 on 5 regularly.  They can't possess the puck or control a game against anyone.  This is just awful to watch.  It's like every game so far is a 40-45 minute penalty kill because we can't forecheck and the other team cycles like crazy in our end.  I'll give the Sabes 15-20 mins of even play, power plays and some fast break opportunities.

Sad when you long for the Roy, Gaustad,  Pominville and Connolly days....

#7 CallawaySabres

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 09 October 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Yes it has.  Once you ship out all but 2 of your past core... you are rebuilding.

Miller, Vanek, Ennis, Stafford and Leino will not be a part of the rebuild. They should be doing everything in their power to get rid of all of them because the big 2 don't want to be here anyway. Trade for people that might not be the most talented top 6 fillers but very tough to play against. Draft #1 overall, bring up Armia and anyone else on the borderline and go

#8 Kristian

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

View Postzow2, on 09 October 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

This teams identity is to get dominated 5 on 5 regularly.  They can't possess the puck or control a game against anyone.  This is just awful to watch.  It's like every game so far is a 40-45 minute penalty kill because we can't forecheck and the other team cycles like crazy in our end.  I'll give the Sabes 15-20 mins of even play, power plays and some fast break opportunities.

Sad when you long for the Roy, Gaustad,  Pominville and Connolly days....

Even if the don't win a game all season, I will *never* long for those days.

That team was never going anywhere, at least there's some hope that these guys will suck enough to get Regier fired, and *that´s* when the true rebuild starts.

#9 LGR4GM

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Miller, Vanek, Ennis, Stafford and Leino will not be a part of the rebuild. They should be doing everything in their power to get rid of all of them because the big 2 don't want to be here anyway. Trade for people that might not be the most talented top 6 fillers but very tough to play against. Draft #1 overall, bring up Armia and anyone else on the borderline and go
I understand what you are saying but you have to maximize assets like Miller and Vanek and get more than just random fillers.  That was the problem with Leino.  We needed a center so we grabbed the only one around... who can't play center I might add.  Buffalo needs to trade smart, draft smart, and actually develop these guys.

A note on the Armia thing, he would be playing (most likely) but he has a broken hand.

#10 CallawaySabres

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 09 October 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying but you have to maximize assets like Miller and Vanek and get more than just random fillers.  That was the problem with Leino.  We needed a center so we grabbed the only one around... who can't play center I might add.  Buffalo needs to trade smart, draft smart, and actually develop these guys.

A note on the Armia thing, he would be playing (most likely) but he has a broken hand.

I think they can maximize the trades for Vanek and Miller by getting some players that might not be the best goal scorers but can help the talented youth score some on their own. The Sabres have not had a balnce of talent and size in forever and that is the direction this rebuild needs to head.

#11 LGR4GM

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:07 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I think they can maximize the trades for Vanek and Miller by getting some players that might not be the best goal scorers but can help the talented youth score some on their own. The Sabres have not had a balnce of talent and size in forever and that is the direction this rebuild needs to head.
We have a lot of size right now though.  Outside of Ennis and Porter I am not sure of anyone under 5'11".  I think when we do make those trades you are correct in that we need to make sure we get solid guys with size.

#12 Derrico

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:12 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I think they can maximize the trades for Vanek and Miller by getting some players that might not be the best goal scorers but can help the talented youth score some on their own. The Sabres have not had a balnce of talent and size in forever and that is the direction this rebuild needs to head.

I think that is the way the rebuild is going.  Trust me, I'm frusterated too.  However, they've had 5 first round picks in the last three years and every single one of them is between 6' 2'' and 6' 5''.  They are certainly heading in the right direction as far as size is concerned.  We need better goal scoring period.  I agree with you but this thing is going to take time.  I think this team will be playing much better in January and February of this season.

#13 sicknfla

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:21 AM

Unless we are prepared for a 3-4 year rebuild with no guarantees how the prospects/picks are going to turn out we better get some immediate talent in here. You cannot rebuild on the draft.

We need a GM in here immediately who will be given complete control to unload Vanek/Miller and whoever else can return proven players. Vanek/Miller alone have to net us 4 NHL ready players. If that means coming off some of our nest egg of picks then so be it.

Give the new GM the ok to sign whatever FA's he wants. Mix them in with some new NHL caliber players, some of our current prospects, and most likely a top 3 pick and you have a new team.

A team in rebuild mode does not only have 3m of cap space left. I would clear as much space as possible. No player should be off limits.

Edited by sicknfla, 09 October 2013 - 10:27 AM.


#14 MattPie

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 09 October 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

A team in rebuild mode does not only have 3m of cap space left. I would clear as much space as possible. No player should be off limits.

I think a team that has money and is in rebuild does though. A fairly large chunk of our cap space is in the last year of their deals (Miller, Vanek, Ott, Tallinder (?), and I'm sure a few others). I'd hope that this plan is to have some vets around for the young guys to learn from, other than throw the entire young team to the wolves.

#15 shrader

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:11 PM

View PostMattPie, on 09 October 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I think a team that has money and is in rebuild does though. A fairly large chunk of our cap space is in the last year of their deals (Miller, Vanek, Ott, Tallinder (?), and I'm sure a few others). I'd hope that this plan is to have some vets around for the young guys to learn from, other than throw the entire young team to the wolves.

That and the cap figure is tough to gauge this year thanks to the steep drop in the cap.  That $3.8 million doesn't sound like much, but it is the 8th highest amount of free cap space in the entire league.

#16 CallawaySabres

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:37 PM

View Postshrader, on 09 October 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

That and the cap figure is tough to gauge this year thanks to the steep drop in the cap.  That $3.8 million doesn't sound like much, but it is the 8th highest amount of free cap space in the entire league.

So with Vanek and Miller off the books, along with the cap going up, plus the 3.8, is there going to be ANYONE in FA who this team will be able to go after? considering Buffalo probably has 2 of the top 5 UFA on their team, it doesn't look good. The rest (Sedins, Lundquist) are planning on staying with their teams. The only shot we may have is Jumbo Joe or Marleau.

#17 Potato

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:29 PM

Well,
  • We have the worst record in the NHL thus far

  • We have given up the second most shots on goal per game (37.2)

  • We have taken the third fewest shots on goal of any team (24.8)

  • We're dead last in 5-on-5 goals for/against (0.33)
I'm thinking our identity is pretty clear.  We're a really bad hockey team.

:(

#18 LGR4GM

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:35 PM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

So with Vanek and Miller off the books, along with the cap going up, plus the 3.8, is there going to be ANYONE in FA who this team will be able to go after? considering Buffalo probably has 2 of the top 5 UFA on their team, it doesn't look good. The rest (Sedins, Lundquist) are planning on staying with their teams. The only shot we may have is Jumbo Joe or Marleau.
Well you also have:
Gaborik, Heatley, Boyle, Statsny, Phaneuf, Iginla, Cammalleri

Out of those I don't think there is a  we could get.  Only 2 I would want.

#19 PASabreFan

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

Great question. Does a franchise need an identity? Do the Wings, Steelers and Patriots, whose owners Terry admires, have an identity that guides their decisions, or is their identity just that they win a lot?

The philosophy of the Sabres going forward might look a lot like the Wings — draft well, develop well, downplay free agency. Even at that, it's hard to imagine the Wings throwing so many kids into pool and saying, "Swim!"

But the Sabres' identity? There isn't one. And if you don't have one, does a franchise that yacks about becoming a Cup machine have anything, really?

#20 CallawaySabres

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 09 October 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Well you also have:
Gaborik, Heatley, Boyle, Statsny, Phaneuf, Iginla, Cammalleri

Out of those I don't think there is a  we could get.  Only 2 I would want.

I think are only shot is going to be trading Miller to a team who is a goaltender away from a serious run. Will he go to Edmonton, I doubt it. Who would be willing to trade a top liner for an elite goalie and change.......

View PostPASabreFan, on 09 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Great question. Does a franchise need an identity? Do the Wings, Steelers and Patriots, whose owners Terry admires, have an identity that guides their decisions, or is their identity just that they win a lot?

The philosophy of the Sabres going forward might look a lot like the Wings — draft well, develop well, downplay free agency. Even at that, it's hard to imagine the Wings throwing so many kids into pool and saying, "Swim!"

But the Sabres' identity? There isn't one. And if you don't have one, does a franchise that yacks about becoming a Cup machine have anything, really?

Wings always have amazing puck control and get players who possess that quality - that translates into wins. Goalie, big men, ehhh
Patriots have arguably the best QB of all time so without him, they fall apart (don't mention Cassell here either)
Steelers - maybe the most constant identiity of all, swarming defense for the last umpteen years.

#21 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 09 October 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

I think are only shot is going to be trading Miller to a team who is a goaltender away from a serious run. Will he go to Edmonton, I doubt it. Who would be willing to trade a top liner for an elite goalie and change.......

Nobody. No freakin way do we get a top line player for Miller.

#22 beerme1

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:18 PM

"What is the identity of this team?"



Good seats still available!

#23 CallawaySabres

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:20 AM

The problem with this team is NOT the youth. The problem with this team is that 2 of your top players are sitting in limbo and Myers (I don't classify as youth anymore), Stafford and Ennis bring absolutely NOTHING to this team. The way I felt about the Bills 2 years ago is how I feel about the Sabres now. I NEVER thought I would be excited about the direction of the Bills UNTIL Ralph stepped aside, energy and forward thinking was brought in for coaching and the drafting sky rocketed with one year under Whaley.

Wake up Pegula, this team has FALLEN APART under your watch. Keep the lame duck coach here for this year but PLEASE get the new GM in here ASAP.

#24 Spndnchz

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

Who knew that one day THIS would be so depressing.



#25 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:29 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 11 October 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

The problem with this team is NOT the youth. The problem with this team is that 2 of your top players are sitting in limbo and Myers (I don't classify as youth anymore), Stafford and Ennis bring absolutely NOTHING to this team. The way I felt about the Bills 2 years ago is how I feel about the Sabres now. I NEVER thought I would be excited about the direction of the Bills UNTIL Ralph stepped aside, energy and forward thinking was brought in for coaching and the drafting sky rocketed with one year under Whaley.

Wake up Pegula, this team has FALLEN APART under your watch. Keep the lame duck coach here for this year but PLEASE get the new GM in here ASAP.

Respectfully disagree.  The problem is the youth...and it's the vets.  It all works together.  If we had more serviceable vets we wouldn't be forced to rush our prospects to the NHL, sure, but that's where we are right now--so either the young guys have to step up, or we're going to get what we have for the first portion of the year.  And the young guys sure as hell aren't doing anything to help us win games (except probably Pysyk, who seems remarkably awesome in his ability to not screw up).

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 11 October 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#26 HopefulFuture

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:30 AM

There's a squatch in these woods......

Let's do some wood knocking........

#27 FolignosJock

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:16 AM

This is without a doubt the worst team in the NHL. I am excited to watch where Vanek ends up so I can cheer him on for the playoffs. That being said I think our team has an incredibly bright future but they need to start putting Grigs and Girgs on top lines. They should be playing with Vanek until he leaves. If we are going to continue playing this poorly there is no reason that they shouldnt be giving all of the minutes to the young guys.

#28 PASabreFan

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:26 PM

I had to laugh. Otherwise I would have cried. I had occasion to be at the VA Hospital in Buffalo this morning, and on the way home down Bailey Avenue toward the 33, a man in a Sabres jersey was being put into the back of a police car. I heard he tried suicide by cop, but the shot went wide. Heyyoooo, good night, you've been great.

#29 d4rksabre

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 11 October 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Who knew that one day THIS would be so depressing.



I knew the day it came out. That song ###### sucks.

#30 nucci

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:46 AM

Winless teams rarely have an identity. They're usually searching for one.

#31 bunomatic

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:55 AM

View Postnucci, on 12 October 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Winless teams rarely have an identity. They're usually searching for one.

Winless teams are often called...dare I say it...here goes...LOSERS,gasp. I hate to lump my team in with  that dreadful group but cat dog all same beef.

#32 hockeyhound

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:05 AM

:unsure:

#33 CallawaySabres

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:54 PM

What I don't understand is why our coach is telling Dmen like Ehrhoff and Myers to "join the rush" instead of leading the charge for the rush. This season is a waste so let's not worry about winning and losing games, let's try and form an identity with some D speed. Myers is absolutely useless without this trait so why have him on the team at all?

#34 Drunkard

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:46 AM

As far as I can tell the identity of this team is to have no forecheck, bad passing, and to be content with not having a single veteran center on the roster that is capable of being defensively responsible.

#35 CallawaySabres

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:23 AM

Now is the time to create the identity going forward so the question is.....what will that be? Is this going to be molded after Ted Nolan or the new GM?

#36 DeLuca1967

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:43 AM

View PostEleven, on 09 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

I get what you are saying.  There is no identity right now.  It's 2002 again.
This is right.

Before any "identity" can be establishes they first have to have the architect in place. The new GM will/should have a big say in the direction the team takes. Once he has a chance to really get his hands on this roster and start making changes and talk of "identity" is premature. Right now they are a franchise in limbo.

View PostCallawaySabres, on 21 November 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Now is the time to create the identity going forward so the question is.....what will that be? Is this going to be molded after Ted Nolan or the new GM?
There's still much house cleaning to do.