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If Vanek gets moved then the suffering will really begin


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#1 SabresBillsFan

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:13 PM

You think it's bad now what happens when Vanek gets moved! Cody won't have any real goal scorer to pass to and then when his stats go down people will think he is overpaid. I really like Vanek and hope Pegs and Regier do what they can to keep him. Not so concerned with Miller leaving as I believe our goaltending isn't that bad if u can get any sort of goal scoring. Should be interesting to see how the year plays out.

#2 DeLuca1967

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 05 October 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

You think it's bad now what happens when Vanek gets moved! Cody won't have any real goal scorer to pass to and then when his stats go down people will think he is overpaid. I really like Vanek and hope Pegs and Regier do what they can to keep him. Not so concerned with Miller leaving as I believe our goaltending isn't that bad if u can get any sort of goal scoring. Should be interesting to see how the year plays out.
The last thing this team needs to do in regards to Thomas Vanek is to be hesitant making a move because of how it may effect Cody Hodgson. Thomas Vanek is valuable asset that needs to maximized.  

Also,

Cody Hodgson is overpaid. His contract is embarrassing for this franchise.

#3 Kristian

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:19 AM

View Postdeluca67, on 05 October 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

The last thing this team needs to do in regards to Thomas Vanek is to be hesitant making a move because of how it may effect Cody Hodgson. Thomas Vanek is valuable asset that needs to maximized.  

Also,

Cody Hodgson is overpaid. His contract is embarrassing for this franchise.

Add it to the already long and distinguished list.

#4 nucci

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:56 AM

Because being outscored 7-2 in 3 games hasn't been bad enough.

#5 sicknfla

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:25 AM

If you are broke and you own a expensive piece of beachfront land do you sell the property or park your car on it and sleep in the back seat? All the while you are waiting to be foreclosed on.

Thomas Vanek is the beachfront property. His pending FA is the bank hounding you. You better sell because time is running out. Problem is you should have sold earlier. Odds are your going to have to short sale because you waited too long. Never get full value in a short sale.


#6 Kristian

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:43 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 06 October 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

If you are broke and you own a expensive piece of beachfront land do you sell the property or park your car on it and sleep in the back seat? All the while you are waiting to be foreclosed on.

Thomas Vanek is the beachfront property. His pending FA is the bank hounding you. You better sell because time is running out. Problem is you should have sold earlier. Odds are your going to have to short sale because you waited too long. Never get full value in a short sale.

I was going to type something about how Darcy's not only two steps, but probably three or four steps behind the market, but why bother, everyone knows it anyway.

#7 PASabreFan

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:28 AM

View PostKristian, on 06 October 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

I was going to type something about how Darcy's not only two steps, but probably three or four steps behind the market, but why bother, everyone knows it anyway.

"Mike, the market hasn't BEAN set yet."

#8 HopefulFuture

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

View PostSabresBillsFan, on 05 October 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

You think it's bad now what happens when Vanek gets moved! Cody won't have any real goal scorer to pass to and then when his stats go down people will think he is overpaid. I really like Vanek and hope Pegs and Regier do what they can to keep him. Not so concerned with Miller leaving as I believe our goaltending isn't that bad if u can get any sort of goal scoring. Should be interesting to see how the year plays out.

I am on bend and knee with hands in prayer they drop Vanek off for a package of picks/prospects at the deadline. Given he's at the end of his current contract I'm not expecting a Pommer type package, but a nice return none-the-less, I am much more interested in finishing last both this season as well as next with the emphasis on next given the entrance of 1 Conner McDavid in that 2015 draft class.

As Regier reluctantly but finally admitted to, we need star caliber players in here and currently don't have them. Grig's will take a while to come around and even then, I don't see him as a game changing/clutch player in the future, merely a support player. Girg's looks to be coming along nicely, great potential in him.

#9 blugold43

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostHopefulFuture, on 06 October 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

I am on bend and knee with hands in prayer they drop Vanek off for a package of picks/prospects at the deadline. Given he's at the end of his current contract I'm not expecting a Pommer type package, but a nice return none-the-less, I am much more interested in finishing last both this season as well as next with the emphasis on next given the entrance of 1 Conner McDavid in that 2015 draft class.

As Regier reluctantly but finally admitted to, we need star caliber players in here and currently don't have them. Grig's will take a while to come around and even then, I don't see him as a game changing/clutch player in the future, merely a support player. Girg's looks to be coming along nicely, great potential in him.
as mentioned above...Regier is the last one to figure everythng out.  you should be on bend and knee that pegula finally swallows his pride and dumps him.

#10 Tankalicious

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 05 October 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

The last thing this team needs to do in regards to Thomas Vanek is to be hesitant making a move because of how it may effect Cody Hodgson. Thomas Vanek is valuable asset that needs to maximized.  

Also,

Cody Hodgson is overpaid. His contract is embarrassing for this franchise.

Yes on the first part. No on the second.

The suffering began this offseason...

#11 hockeyhound

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:06 PM

What do you do if your Vanek?

This team is not going to make the playoff's performing like they have.

Buffalo has no veteran offensive depth.

I like the young kids effort; however, effort alone doesn't get you into the playoff's.

Vanek might be better off getting out as soon as possible.

#12 bunomatic

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:14 PM

I think Vanek has given a 10 game window and then he will start making noise. Quietly of course.

#13 hockeyhound

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:18 PM

View Postbunomatic, on 06 October 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I think Vanek has given a 10 game window and then he will start making noise. Quietly of course.

Sounds reasonable; by then teams will have already evaluated their rosters and may need to replace guys as a result of early long term injuries.

#14 Tankalicious

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

I don't think you'll hear anything as far as trades until at least 25-30 games in.



Buttttttt, if I'm a team who scores a lot but can't win then I call about Ryan Miller right now.

Edited by DStebb, 06 October 2013 - 02:00 PM.


#15 skaught

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostDStebb, on 06 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Buttttttt, if I'm a team who scores a lot but can't win then I call about Ryan Miller right now.

Washington Capitals
1-2, 10GF, 12GA

#16 Tankalicious

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:43 PM

View Postskaught, on 06 October 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Washington Capitals
1-2, 10GF, 12GA

Could also look at Edmonton.

#17 skaught

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:59 PM

Yeah, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. Regier's gonna let both walk as free agents.

#18 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

View Postskaught, on 06 October 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Yeah, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. Regier's gonna let both walk as free agents.

I wish I could see the future.

#19 skaught

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:21 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 06 October 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:



I wish I could see the future.

Its easy, just look at the past.

#20 DeLuca1967

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:27 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 06 October 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I wish I could see the future.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

#21 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:34 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 06 October 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I can quote things too.

#22 DeLuca1967

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:47 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 06 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

I can quote things too.
Question is, can you learn from them?

#23 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 06 October 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:


Question is, can you learn from them?

Quotes without context hold no value.

#24 HopefulFuture

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostDStebb, on 06 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

I don't think you'll hear anything as far as trades until at least 25-30 games in.



Buttttttt, if I'm a team who scores a lot but can't win then I call about Ryan Miller right now.

Honestly, with the way Dub's has played thus far for Edmonton, I'm hoping Regier is looking at a trade in that direction. Just me though.

#25 apuszczalowski

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:09 PM

I think your looking at the wrong guy. So far this season, if Vanek left, there weren't be much difference from what we have seen so far from this team. Its Miller being moved that is going to show us suffering. So far he has been the only one keeping this team from complete blowouts. (Not saying that Vanek leaving won't hurt, but Miller leaving would have a much bigger impact to the team and the games right now)

#26 thesportsbuff

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:25 AM

The suffering began Saturday night for me. Call me the eternal optimist but I had hope for the Sabres this season. I thought we'd see significant improvement from Hodgson, and maybe that would lead to a hot start or dare I say 40g year for Vanek. And maybe Grigorenko would look like he belonged in the NHL. And Myers would figure it out some, helping to solidify a nice young D core with Ristolainen and Pysyk. I thought the new coaches might be able to get our Power Play going -- one of the biggest complaints about the Sabres lately is how certain players shy away from the gritty side of the game, losing puck battles etc. That shouldn't matter as much with the man advantage. These guys are (almost) all talented enough to play in the NHL, they should be able to score with the man advantage. Or at least a two-man advantage. IMO that's got to be on coaching.  I thought that MAYBE, just MAYBE, after a summer of being basically cast aside as a bottom-feeder with no chance, would rally around that and play with urgency and with an edge and try to prove critics wrong and make the playoffs. At the very least, I was hoping to get an extended look at some of the up-and-coming and/or fringe players like Armia, Girgensons, Grigorenko, Larsson, Tropp, and McNabb.

What I got instead over the first three games was largely the opposite. We've scored two goals (one of which was pretty flukey). Neither Vanek nor Hodgson have looked remarkable in any way. Grigorenko looks a little better than last season but still has a way to go. Ristolainen and Pysyk haven't been bad, but Myers is still a trainwreck. Risto also failed to engage a forward in front of the net which led directly to a goal against. The power play is a joke. I can't even begin to explain the problems, but NOT no-look drop-passing between your legs to other team would probably be a good place to start if they want to improve. And while Girgensons has played great, Armia and Tropp went down injured before the season started, McNabb didn't make the team (which isn't necessarily a bad thing just stating the opposite of what I had hoped for), and Larsson has played half his shifts with John Scott and Kaleta.

Edited by thesportsbuff, 07 October 2013 - 01:26 AM.


#27 waldo

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:35 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 06 October 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

I think your looking at the wrong guy. So far this season, if Vanek left, there weren't be much difference from what we have seen so far from this team. Its Miller being moved that is going to show us suffering. So far he has been the only one keeping this team from complete blowouts. (Not saying that Vanek leaving won't hurt, but Miller leaving would have a much bigger impact to the team and the games right now)

Vanek leaving would confuse other teams. What line would they play their first pair against?

#28 Taro T

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

View Postwaldo, on 07 October 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Vanek leaving would confuse other teams. What line would they play their first pair against?
That's easy.  The 1st one the Sabres put out.

#29 apuszczalowski

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:01 AM

View Postwaldo, on 07 October 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Vanek leaving would confuse other teams. What line would they play their first pair against?
They could keep their first line on the bench or make them healthy scratches that night, give them the night off. It probably wouldn't make much of a difference

#30 Koomkie

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:58 AM

this was posted in the "around the nhl thread"

Mike Harrington@BNHarrington19m
#Flyers join #Sabres at 0-3 w/no offense. RT @drosennhl Giroux, Hartnell, Read, Voracek, Simmonds all have no points through 3 games.

thought it was appropriate for this conversation.

our team is young. we are going to lose a lot this year. especially against to teams like detroit and pittsburgh.

calm down. expect suffering and enjoy watching the young guys. probably another two years unless some solid veterans are signed to help.
after three games i am now convinced vanek will no longer be a sabre after the year is up. same with miller. we will get some nice pieces for them. and we will have a solid chance at conner mcdavid.

go sabres.

#31 LGR4GM

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:21 AM

I expect Thomas Vanek to be traded out west before 2014 begins.  Miller will follow in the week before the deadline.

#32 sicknfla

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 07 October 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

I expect Thomas Vanek to be traded out west before 2014 begins.  Miller will follow in the week before the deadline.

I think Miller goes first. Too many teams have question marks at goalie. Waiting to the deadline may be too long for some of them. This needs to be addressed by management ASAP. Time too turn the page and do what we have to.

Darcy cannot roll the dice with this. He may think me is smarter than everyone else but he just needs to watch his team play. The only person he is smarter than is his boss.

#33 apuszczalowski

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:30 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 07 October 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think Miller goes first. Too many teams have question marks at goalie. Waiting to the deadline may be too long for some of them. This needs to be addressed by management ASAP. Time too turn the page and do what we have to.

Darcy cannot roll the dice with this. He may think me is smarter than everyone else but he just needs to watch his team play. The only person he is smarter than is his boss.
But the Market hasn't been set yet for trades, Darcy can't make a move that may set the market or not end up getting what could be perceived as market value later!

The only humane thing to do is to get them both on new teams ASAP

#34 Potato

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 07 October 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

But the Market hasn't been set yet for trades, Darcy can't make a move that may set the market or not end up getting what could be perceived as market value later!

The only humane thing to do is to get them both on new teams ASAP

True on both accounts.  Preventioned-focused Darcy is absolutely incapable of doing anything until his hand if forced (in this case by the trade deadline).  He will wait, and wait, and wait... then 1 hour before the deadline we'll hear that both players have been moved for more picks.  So this year will essentially be 3/4 of a wasted season for Vanek and Miller as they flounder around on a rudderless ship.

#35 Tankalicious

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

If Miller goes, it'll likely be early. Teams don't like bringing goalies in later in the year. Bring him in now and get him onto the ice as early as you can.


Then, if Miller leave, Vanek would likely have to be shipped out as soon as possible out of respect.

#36 apuszczalowski

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

View PostDStebb, on 07 October 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

If Miller goes, it'll likely be early. Teams don't like bringing goalies in later in the year. Bring him in now and get him onto the ice as early as you can.


Then, if Miller leave, Vanek would likely have to be shipped out as soon as possible out of respect.
I think this is a different situation and one that hasn't been seen much before. How many times have we seen a team put a #1 goalie, one of the better goalies in the league, on the trade block during a season? Sure theres Luongo, but the situation there was different and no one wanted that contract. But when have we ever seen a situation like this before? Most times a player like Milelr becomes available, its in the offseason, and they are moved around the draft.

#37 sicknfla

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:42 AM

Just throwing this out for debate. IF this thing continues to go as ugly as we expect does TP save face and fire DR BEFORE Vanek/Miller are moved? Does a new GM convince them to stay?

Honestly, I hope we start out 0-20. I want TP to lay awake in bed at night and really think if this is the route he wants to take.

#38 apuszczalowski

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:46 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 07 October 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Just throwing this out for debate. IF this thing continues to go as ugly as we expect does TP save face and fire DR BEFORE Vanek/Miller are moved? Does a new GM convince them to stay?

Honestly, I hope we start out 0-20. I want TP to lay awake in bed at night and really think if this is the route he wants to take.
I would love a new GM to convince both to stay, but the only way thats going to happen is if they scrap the rebuild and turn things around now which isn't likely to happen. I don't know of too many good players available as trade bait this early in the season

#39 MattPie

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:24 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 06 October 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

#40 dudacek

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:32 PM


If Vanek is traded we will have not one proven top-six forward - not one.
You could make a case that Stafford, Hodgson and Ennis have shown they can be second-liners.
You could make a case that Grigorenko, Foligno, Girgensons, and Armia could get there.
But not one of them is a sure fire second-liner, let alone a first.
As for a star, there doesn't seem to be a forward in the system that fits that description.

In better news, the Flyers and the Oilers - the prime destinations for Miller - are off to rough starts