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Miller.......what if?


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#1 sicknfla

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:06 AM

Just throwing it out there to get your opinions. Come trade deadline and Miller is having an awesome year. We are doing better than expected and are in good position for a playoff berth. Indications are he is not willing to sign.

Do we trade him?

#2 MattPie

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:08 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 18 September 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just throwing it out there to get your opinions. Come trade deadline and Miller is having an awesome year. We are doing better than expected and are in good position for a playoff berth. Indications are he is not willing to sign.

Do we trade him?

If he's sure to not sign, yes.

#3 LGR4GM

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:14 AM

If Miller has not signed an extension by the trade deadline you trade him.

#4 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:17 AM

If the team is in contention and Miller is going great he has no reason not to re sign.
The only way Darcy can justify Miller and Vanek here and unsigned after the deadline is with a Stanley Cup.
And he should be fired if he takes that risk.

#5 sicknfla

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:23 AM

View Postdudacek, on 18 September 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

If the team is in contention and Miller is going great he has no reason not to re sign.
The only way Darcy can justify Miller and Vanek here and unsigned after the deadline is with a Stanley Cup.I
And he should be fired if he takes that risk.

I tend to think the better he is doing the less likely he is to sign. Why not explore all your options when you are about to sign, most likely, your last contract. I think he has already made that decision.

#6 stenbaro

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:40 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 18 September 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

I tend to think the better he is doing the less likely he is to sign. Why not explore all your options when you are about to sign, most likely, your last contract. I think he has already made that decision.

I think alot of people are believing he will get some stupid contract when free agency arrives.....I dont think he gets anywhere near what alot of people think he is going to get thrown at him....I would be surprised if he gets anywhere near what he made this last contract...

#7 sicknfla

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:55 AM

View Poststenbaro, on 18 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:



I think alot of people are believing he will get some stupid contract when free agency arrives.....I dont think he gets anywhere near what alot of people think he is going to get thrown at him....I would be surprised if he gets anywhere near what he made this last contract...

Who knows. The cap will be going through the roof. I just think he will want the chance to see what's out there. Financially and opportunity wise. Unfortunately, we are going to have over 6 months to discuss it.

#8 Kristian

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:58 AM

View Postsicknfla, on 18 September 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just throwing it out there to get your opinions. Come trade deadline and Miller is having an awesome year. We are doing better than expected and are in good position for a playoff berth. Indications are he is not willing to sign.

Do we trade him?


Yes.

This team is rebuilding, they can't afford to let star players walk for nothing anymore.

#9 beerme1

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

View Postdudacek, on 18 September 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

The only way Darcy can justify Miller and Vanek here and unsigned after the deadline is with a Stanley Cup.
And he should be fired if he takes that risk.

You would think. Not here though.

#10 Moulson26

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:50 PM

View Postsicknfla, on 18 September 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just throwing it out there to get your opinions. Come trade deadline and Miller is having an awesome year. We are doing better than expected and are in good position for a playoff berth. Indications are he is not willing to sign.

Do we trade him?

If he's not traded early in the season then no we won't trade him at the deadline. Teams don't trade for #1 goalies at the deadline. When's the last time someone (a contender) traded for a starting goalie mid-to-late into the season?

#11 sicknfla

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:59 PM

View PostVanek-Man, on 18 September 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:



If he's not traded early in the season then no we won't trade him at the deadline. Teams don't trade for #1 goalies at the deadline. When's the last time someone (a contender) traded for a starting goalie mid-to-late into the season?

More likely to get traded due to an injury. Not every year a goalie of Miller's ability is available at the deadline - so history could be thrown out the window.

#12 nfreeman

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:44 PM

It depends on what the return is.  I don't think there would be a Pommer-type package coming back for Miller -- he's older than Pommer, he's a pending UFA, and he plays a less coveted position.  So if the trade return is, say, a #2 pick from a good team (so a pick that will be late in the 2nd round) -- I would not trade him in that scenario.

#13 Robviously

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

View Postsicknfla, on 18 September 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Just throwing it out there to get your opinions. Come trade deadline and Miller is having an awesome year. We are doing better than expected and are in good position for a playoff berth. Indications are he is not willing to sign.

Do we trade him?
Yep.

#14 DeLuca1967

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:29 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 18 September 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

It depends on what the return is.  I don't think there would be a Pommer-type package coming back for Miller -- he's older than Pommer, he's a pending UFA, and he plays a less coveted position.  So if the trade return is, say, a #2 pick from a good team (so a pick that will be late in the 2nd round) -- I would not trade him in that scenario.
Wouldn't letting him walk for nothing be worse than only getting a late 2nd rounder?

The Sabres missed the boat for getting max value for Miller. They need to get what they can for Miller and move on.

#15 nfreeman

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:31 AM

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Wouldn't letting him walk for nothing be worse than only getting a late 2nd rounder?

The Sabres missed the boat for getting max value for Miller. They need to get what they can for Miller and move on.

Well, I think missing the playoffs and having an extra late 2nd rounder would be worse than making the playoffs and not having an extra late 2nd rounder.

#16 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Well, I think missing the playoffs and having an extra late 2nd rounder would be worse than making the playoffs and not having an extra late 2nd rounder.

Just to play a little devil's advocate, having an extra 2nd rounder helped us get Girgensons (who most people, including you, expect to be a major part of the team going forward to contender status) rather than whoever we would have gotten without the trade up.

#17 Paul Kruse

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:08 PM

They should trade him right now. He's a bum.

#18 DeLuca1967

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:21 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Well, I think missing the playoffs and having an extra late 2nd rounder would be worse than making the playoffs and not having an extra late 2nd rounder.
Hanging around 8th-10th and possibly sneaking in to the playoffs, IMO, is the same cycle of mediocrity this franchise has been trapped in.

It's bout the future of the franchise. A 33 year old Ryan Miller doesn't fit that future.

#19 nfreeman

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 19 September 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Just to play a little devil's advocate, having an extra 2nd rounder helped us get Girgensons (who most people, including you, expect to be a major part of the team going forward to contender status) rather than whoever we would have gotten without the trade up.

Fair enough, but let's be clear on the facts -- the Sabres traded the 12th pick in the 2nd round to move up 7 slots in the 1st round -- from 21st to 14th, where they chose Girgy.  That's an earlier 2nd-round pick than the one they'd hypothetically be getting from a playoff contender at the deadline, and they had to include their own 1st-rounder in the deal.  So it's not like we're talking Miller straight up for a Girgy-like prospect.  If we were, I'd probably be on board with that.

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Hanging around 8th-10th and possibly sneaking in to the playoffs, IMO, is the same cycle of mediocrity this franchise has been trapped in.

It's bout the future of the franchise. A 33 year old Ryan Miller doesn't fit that future.

Perhaps getting into the playoffs, even at the cost of a late 2nd-rounder, is better for the future of the franchise than missing them for the 3rd year in a row -- at which point the cement boots of loserdom really start to harden around the franchise's feet.

#20 LGR4GM

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:17 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Hanging around 8th-10th and possibly sneaking in to the playoffs, IMO, is the same cycle of mediocrity this franchise has been trapped in.

It's bout the future of the franchise. A 33 year old Ryan Miller doesn't fit that future.
Agreed.  We should trade him and then let the chips fall where they may. I think we can realistic expect to finish 12-16 worst this year.   May make the playoffs or may tank, really hard to tell with this group because there are so many variables.

#21 nfreeman

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:24 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 19 September 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Agreed.  We should trade him and then let the chips fall where they may. I think we can realistic expect to finish 12-16 worst this year.   May make the playoffs or may tank, really hard to tell with this group because there are so many variables.

As someone who has never met you but still feels entitled to predict your thoughts and feelings, I will say this:  If the Sabres are sitting in the #7 slot on the day before the deadline, in the middle of a dogfight with 3 other teams for the last 2 playoff spots, with Miller having a huge year and Enroth crapping the bed in most of his starts, you will go crazy insane if DR trades Miller to Pittsburgh for their 2nd-rounder.

#22 DeLuca1967

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:42 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

As someone who has never met you but still feels entitled to predict your thoughts and feelings, I will say this:  If the Sabres are sitting in the #7 slot on the day before the deadline, in the middle of a dogfight with 3 other teams for the last 2 playoff spots, with Miller having a huge year and Enroth crapping the bed in most of his starts, you will go crazy insane if DR trades Miller to Pittsburgh for their 2nd-rounder.
That would be the conventional wisdom. problem is that conventional wisdom has gotten this franchise nowhere. If there are assets to be gained by moving Miller and this team is where they have been in recent years than they have to deal Miller. I don't care if it costs them a perceived chance at 7th or 8th place.

#23 LGR4GM

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:02 PM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

As someone who has never met you but still feels entitled to predict your thoughts and feelings, I will say this:  If the Sabres are sitting in the #7 slot on the day before the deadline, in the middle of a dogfight with 3 other teams for the last 2 playoff spots, with Miller having a huge year and Enroth crapping the bed in most of his starts, you will go crazy insane if DR trades Miller to Pittsburgh for their 2nd-rounder.
That is a very specific scenario but if Miller has not resigned by the deadline you need to trade him.  8th place has won the cup 1 time.  Trade Miller.

#24 DeLuca1967

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:11 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 19 September 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

That is a very specific scenario but if Miller has not resigned by the deadline you need to trade him.  8th place has won the cup 1 time.  Trade Miller.
The Kings were an very talented underachieving 8th seed. A far different scenario than the Sabres find themselves in going into this season.

Re-signing Miller should be out of the question at this point. It would set the re-build back not converting Miller into future assets.

#25 LGR4GM

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:23 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

The Kings were an very talented underachieving 8th seed. A far different scenario than the Sabres find themselves in going into this season.

Re-signing Miller should be out of the question at this point. It would set the re-build back not converting Miller into future assets.
I agree again.  This is weird agreeing all the time.  Miller should be traded.  He is not the goaltender we are looking for.  It sucks because I really like him but I think his era and chance here at Buffalo has passed.

#26 nfreeman

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:27 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

That would be the conventional wisdom. problem is that conventional wisdom has gotten this franchise nowhere. If there are assets to be gained by moving Miller and this team is where they have been in recent years than they have to deal Miller. I don't care if it costs them a perceived chance at 7th or 8th place.

Well, I think there has been a ton of accumulated bad decisions that has resulted in the current state of the franchise, and most of these did not involve the issue of whether to trade Player X at the deadline.  (Except, of course, the worst 5 decisions since the lockout.)

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

The Kings were an very talented underachieving 8th seed. A far different scenario than the Sabres find themselves in going into this season.

Re-signing Miller should be out of the question at this point. It would set the re-build back not converting Miller into future assets.

View PostLGR4GM, on 19 September 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I agree again.  This is weird agreeing all the time.  Miller should be traded.  He is not the goaltender we are looking for.  It sucks because I really like him but I think his era and chance here at Buffalo has passed.

You are both making it sound like there will be a fat package coming back for Miller.  That ain't happening.

#27 Formerly Allan in MD

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:37 PM

View Postdudacek, on 18 September 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

If the team is in contention and Miller is going great he has no reason not to re sign.
The only way Darcy can justify Miller and Vanek here and unsigned after the deadline is with a Stanley Cup.
And he should be fired if he takes that risk.
Since when is anything a given in pro sports?  Perhaps he simply wants a change of scenery.

#28 LGR4GM

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:35 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Well, I think there has been a ton of accumulated bad decisions that has resulted in the current state of the franchise, and most of these did not involve the issue of whether to trade Player X at the deadline.  (Except, of course, the worst 5 decisions since the lockout.)




You are both making it sound like there will be a fat package coming back for Miller.  That ain't happening.
I have yet to post anything related to Miller's possible worth in a trade outside of a talk about first round picks in the 2013 draft.  I have no way of assessing his value now or before the deadline because there is not a benchmark for him to be compared to.

#29 DeLuca1967

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:57 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Well, I think there has been a ton of accumulated bad decisions that has resulted in the current state of the franchise, and most of these did not involve the issue of whether to trade Player X at the deadline.  (Except, of course, the worst 5 decisions since the lockout.)




You are both making it sound like there will be a fat package coming back for Miller.  That ain't happening.
Not at all. I've already stated that ship has sailed. That doesn't mean Miller is without value and a reasonable return shouldn't be expected especially if Miller is part of a bigger deal.

#30 LGR4GM

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:52 PM

Check out Ryan's mask!!! it is great!

Ryan Miller@RyanMiller3039  3m
Dia de los muertos pic.twitter.com/kQbqkLmdDY

#31 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:59 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 01 November 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

Check out Ryan's mask!!! it is great!

Ryan Miller@RyanMiller3039  3m
Dia de los muertos pic.twitter.com/kQbqkLmdDY

It says Noureen on one horn...What does it say on the other?

#32 sicknfla

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:19 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 01 November 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:



It says Noureen on one horn...What does it say on the other?

FOR SALE

#33 Lanny

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 08:39 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 01 November 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:



It says Noureen on one horn...What does it say on the other?
puck

#34 Koomkie

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:04 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 19 September 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

As someone who has never met you but still feels entitled to predict your thoughts and feelings, I will say this:  If the Sabres are sitting in the #7 slot on the day before the deadline, in the middle of a dogfight with 3 other teams for the last 2 playoff spots, with Miller having a huge year and Enroth crapping the bed in most of his starts, you will go crazy insane if DR trades Miller to Pittsburgh for their 2nd-rounder.
i predict miller to pittsburgh.

#35 Lorenzo Von Matterhorn

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:45 AM


@BuffNewsVogl17m

Patrick Kaleta is not going to play for the Sabres tonight. Not on IR. Something is up.


@BuffNewsVogl7m

Sabres' Patrick Kaleta did not take part in optional morning skate (beyond rare), is not in building. Suspension done, won't play tonight


@JoshRimerHockey5m

Patrick Kaleta is eligible to return tonight from a 10 Gm Susp, but apparently will not dress. Agent Anton Thun says that's news to him.


This is weird and I only bring this up because I've heard in the last 24 hours Sabres & Flyers have had major discussions involving Miller possible PK on the move as well? Also we still need to make a move to activate Tropp something's up


#36 Tankalicious

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostLorenzo Von Matterhorn, on 02 November 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:


@BuffNewsVogl17m
Patrick Kaleta is not going to play for the Sabres tonight. Not on IR. Something is up.

@BuffNewsVogl7m
Sabres' Patrick Kaleta did not take part in optional morning skate (beyond rare), is not in building. Suspension done, won't play tonight

@JoshRimerHockey5m
Patrick Kaleta is eligible to return tonight from a 10 Gm Susp, but apparently will not dress. Agent Anton Thun says that's news to him.

This is weird and I only bring this up because I've heard in the last 24 hours Sabres & Flyers have had major discussions involving Miller possible PK on the move as well? Also we still need to make a move to activate Tropp something's up

When a roster spot needs to be cleared and a move is coming, it's not at the goalie position. Because you have two goalie spots and will always have two goalie spots.
(We now know what the move was, I'm just saying this for future reference).

Also, there has been no legitimate reports on those talks so... Making your own stuff up or?

#37 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:29 PM

View PostLanny, on 02 November 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

puck

Oh.

Somehow, I read it as "pack, Noureen"

#38 nfreeman

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:45 AM

So I'm resurrecting this thread due to (i) a shift in tone among some posters here to a position in favor of keeping Miller and (Ii) Lundqvist's contract extension, which gives some further insight as to what it will cost to re-sign Miller.

Lundy's contract was a 7-year extension that ends after the 2020-2021 season.  Lundy will turn 39 in March of that season -- i.e. a couple of months before the end of that season.

Miller was born in July 1980 -- so he'll be 39 in July 2019.  If we were interested in giving Miller an extension, I would want it to end after the 2018-2019 season, when he will be 38 (and a few months away from 39).  That would be a 5-year extension.

Lundy got $8.5MM per year x 7 years.  I would guess that for the Sabres to keep him, they will need to give him not much less than what Lundy got.  I think he would accept a 5-year deal based on his age relative to Lundy's, but the salary will need to be in Lundy's ballpark.

So:  $7.65MM per year x 5 years?  The $7.65MM is based on Lundy's number, less 10%.

I think TP would give it to Miller in a heartbeat -- especially after he brings home a gold medal and another MVP from Sochi -- but I have no idea what PLF and his new GM think.

I would give it to him too.

And before you say you wouldn't, just remember:  that most likely means you're getting a 2nd-rounder at the deadline for him and moving on to Enroth and Hackett.

Edited by nfreeman, 27 December 2013 - 12:49 AM.


#39 d4rksabre

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:49 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 27 December 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

So I'm resurrecting this thread due to (i) a shift in tone among some posters here to a position in favor of keeping Miller and (Ii) Lundqvist's contract extension, which gives some further insight as to what it will cost to re-sign Miller.

Lundy's contract was a 7-year extension that ends after the 2020-2021 season.  Lundy will turn 39 in March of that season -- i.e. a couple of months before the end of that season.

Miller was born in July 1980 -- so he'll be 39 in July 2019.  If we were interested in giving Miller an extension, I would want it to end after the 2018-2019 season, when he will be 38.  That would be a 5-year extension.

Lundy got $8.5MM per year x 7 years.  I would guess that for the Sabres to keep him, they will need to give him not much less than what Lundy got.  I think he would accept a 5-year deal based on his age relative to Lundy's, but the salary will need to be in Lundy's ballpark.

So:  $7.65MM per year x 5 years?  The $7.65MM is based on Lundy's number, less 10%.

I think TP would give it to Miller in a heartbeat -- especially after he brings home a gold medal and another MVP from Sochi -- but I have no idea what PLF and his new GM think.

I would give it to him too.

Lock the goalie up. I don't want to be Edmonton.

#40 ubkev

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:59 AM

View Postnfreeman, on 27 December 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

So I'm resurrecting this thread due to (i) a shift in tone among some posters here to a position in favor of keeping Miller and (Ii) Lundqvist's contract extension, which gives some further insight as to what it will cost to re-sign Miller.

Lundy's contract was a 7-year extension that ends after the 2020-2021 season.  Lundy will turn 39 in March of that season -- i.e. a couple of months before the end of that season.

Miller was born in July 1980 -- so he'll be 39 in July 2019.  If we were interested in giving Miller an extension, I would want it to end after the 2018-2019 season, when he will be 38 (and a few months away from 39).  That would be a 5-year extension.

Lundy got $8.5MM per year x 7 years.  I would guess that for the Sabres to keep him, they will need to give him not much less than what Lundy got.  I think he would accept a 5-year deal based on his age relative to Lundy's, but the salary will need to be in Lundy's ballpark.

So:  $7.65MM per year x 5 years?  The $7.65MM is based on Lundy's number, less 10%.

I think TP would give it to Miller in a heartbeat -- especially after he brings home a gold medal and another MVP from Sochi -- but I have no idea what PLF and his new GM think.

I would give it to him too.

And before you say you wouldn't, just remember:  that most likely means you're getting a 2nd-rounder at the deadline for him and moving on to Enroth and Hackett.

I like this line of thinking. Good post.

I want to keep Miller very badly. That said, if I'm Miller and you tell me 10% less than what Hank got; I tell you to go ###### yourself. Then you say on 5% less than what Hank got, I say "Hey, go piss in your hat!" "I'll take the same contract for 6 years." You might be able to get it down to 5 years but I don't think he'll take less than 2% of what Hank got. Especially after he brings back gold from Russia.

Go USA!!!!!!!!