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KALETA

Is it time to get rid of him?

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Poll: Kaleta Should He stay or go?

Kaleta

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#1 rickshaw

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:26 AM

Hey all, hope your summer has been great. First post in awhile, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

I see that Pat Kaleta has already jumped a so-called soft player for delivering a clean check, and then turtled when asked to go with someone who can handle himself.
My question is, do we really need him on this team? He's got a terrible reputation and the refs are not shy in hitting him up for penalties at any given moment.

Personally, I think it's time for him to go. I know he's a Buffalo kid, but I believe he does more harm than good for this team. Let someone else play who has a physical edge and a more honourable game.

Thoughts?

Edited by rickshaw, 18 September 2013 - 10:16 PM.


#2 That Aud Smell

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:53 AM

I dunno. I like him quite well as a 4th-line forward and 2nd-unit PK guy. Those guys in the league tend to be somewhat interchangeable, so it's nice to fill that slot with a local guy. Plus, he's a helluva lot faster than most 4th line energy guys.

I tend to agree that he needs to answer the bell if he's going to run around like that.

I also wish he'd do less of the running around -- the guy just needs to pick his spots more.

#3 biodork

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:57 AM

I might be in the minority, but I'd prefer to keep Kaleta on our team.  He does need to be careful and pick his spots (like Aud said) since Shanny has him under the microscope, but he's invaluable on the PK and one of the few players you can count on every night to play hard.  When he's doing it right, he does a great job of drawing penalities and taking the other team off their game.  I like him much better on the Sabres than I would on any opponent's team!

#4 MattPie

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

View Postbiodork, on 18 September 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

I might be in the minority, but I'd prefer to keep Kaleta on our team.  He does need to be careful and pick his spots (like Aud said) since Shanny has him under the microscope, but he's invaluable on the PK and one of the few players you can count on every night to play hard.  When he's doing it right, he does a great job of drawing penalities and taking the other team off their game.  I like him much better on the Sabres than I would on any opponent's team!

I don't think you're in the minority, I think a somewhat vocal minority does want him gone. Rickshaw, how about a poll on this post? How about: Gone, Keep, or Keep only if he cleans up.

I think he's valuable enough that if he picks his spots (and he seems to have been better about that lately, last game notwithstanding), he has enough speed, hands, and D ability to be worthwhile guy on the 4th line.

#5 dudacek

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:09 AM

Keep. He needs to produce a touch more offence than last year, but he's fast, hard to play against and can kill penalties.
I think he provides exactly what you want on the fourth line.

Saw a debate on another board about his penalty risk. Somebody pulled out a stat that showed for every penalty Kaleta takes per 60 minutes, he draws something like four from the other team. Sorry, I can't source it at the moment, but it does ring true.

#6 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:26 AM

Kaleta brings some serious defensive value to a team with way too many one-dimensional forwards. Not only do I think we should keep him, but I think it would be crazy to get rid of him with the current roster construction. There may be a day we don't need him, but this is not that day.

#7 LGR4GM

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:30 AM

Kaleta for me should be kept. Ideally I would like him to actually play on the 3rd line. Kaleta is really good at closing gaps and shutting guys down and he is deceptively fast with decent hands.  Girgensons - Larsson - Kaleta could wreak havoc as a 3rd line.  I am in favor of keeping him and giving him more of a role.

That being said he needs to clean up his act by say 25%

#8 inkman

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:40 AM

View Postrickshaw, on 18 September 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Hey all, hope your summer has been great. First post in awhile, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

I see that Pat Kaleta has already jumped a so-called soft player for delivering a clean check, and then turtled when asked to go with someone who can handle himself.
His turtling days are few and far between.  I'm disappointed he didn't throw with Prust but its become the exception no the rule.  He'll throw with just about anyone in his weight class and even guys a class or two up.

#9 biodork

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:44 AM

View Postinkman, on 18 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

His turtling days are few and far between.  I'm disappointed he didn't throw with Prust but its become the exception no the rule. He'll throw with just about anyone in his weight class and even guys a class or two up.

I think this one is my favorite:

http://www.hockeyfig...m/fights/117349

#10 Hawerchuk

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:48 AM

I think you picked the wrong guy. Why do we have John Scott on this team? I think he's way less valuable than Kaleta. Pat looks like he's really going to be more picky with his fights this year, stay relatively clean and he even said he's committed to being a top penalty killer. He brings more value than Scott.

#11 biodork

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:56 AM

View PostHawerchuk, on 18 September 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

I think you picked the wrong guy. Why do we have John Scott on this team? I think he's way less valuable than Kaleta. Pat looks like he's really going to be more picky with his fights this year, stay relatively clean and he even said he's committed to being a top penalty killer. He brings more value than Scott.

Somebody's gotta fight when Kaleta's neck flares up again.  :(

All kidding aside, I mostly agree... I think Scott was really brought it mostly to address the fans' complaints about team softness (although maybe to appease Miller as well).

#12 Spndnchz

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:00 PM

Or this one...


For a guy making just over a million he brings a lot.  Every night.

Now, Stafford on the other hand...

#13 Kristian

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:03 PM

I could care less if he answers the bell, lots of other teams have agitators who never fight anyone out of their class.

Not particularly fond of that part of his game, but I'm quite tired of the Sabres having to be somewhat of a moral beacon in this league.

A lot of other teams have cheapshot artists too, maybe the Sabres need a few more?

Not much fun in always being on the receiving end.

#14 qwksndmonster

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:10 PM

View PostKristian, on 18 September 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I could care less if he answers the bell, lots of other teams have agitators who never fight anyone out of their class.

Not particularly fond of that part of his game, but I'm quite tired of the Sabres having to be somewhat of a moral beacon in this league.

A lot of other teams have cheapshot artists too, maybe the Sabres need a few more?

Not much fun in always being on the receiving end.
We definitely need more.  Good call.

#15 nfreeman

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostMattPie, on 18 September 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't think you're in the minority, I think a somewhat vocal minority does want him gone. Rickshaw, how about a poll on this post? How about: Gone, Keep, or Keep only if he cleans up.

I think he's valuable enough that if he picks his spots (and he seems to have been better about that lately, last game notwithstanding), he has enough speed, hands, and D ability to be worthwhile guy on the 4th line.

View Postdudacek, on 18 September 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Keep. He needs to produce a touch more offence than last year, but he's fast, hard to play against and can kill penalties.
I think he provides exactly what you want on the fourth line.

Saw a debate on another board about his penalty risk. Somebody pulled out a stat that showed for every penalty Kaleta takes per 60 minutes, he draws something like four from the other team. Sorry, I can't source it at the moment, but it does ring true.

I agree with both of these 100%.

#16 sizzlemeister

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:50 PM

View Postinkman, on 18 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:


His turtling days are few and far between.  I'm disappointed he didn't throw with Prust but its become the exception no the rule.  He'll throw with just about anyone in his weight class and even guys a class or two up.

Agreed.  At least he's out there doing SOMETHING against players larger than he.  And when the coaches can anticipate it, they put Big John out there as well.  I think a NHL team needs these types of players - for those wanting PURE hockey, ah, this IS pure hockey.

Kaleta lays it out there 100% every game, even when he's not 100%.  He's fast, great on the PK, a very good defensive player, and he can finish garbage goals and short-handers when the time comes.  Totally worth the money and the roster spot.

#17 That Aud Smell

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:56 PM

Man.

Even with all the cautionary things I think and feel about the need to better manage head trauma in pro sports, those fight clips have a way of getting the blood going.

And I should add: I didn't mean to suggest by my post above that Kaleta doesn't answer the bell (Inkie is right on his turtling days being over); I was more responding to a report that he apparently did not answer the bell in a preseason game.

He's a heart and soul guy. I very much like having him on the squad.

And if I had to guess, I'd think that active Sabre fans (not just fairly obsessive ones like those around here) favor his being on the roster by an overwhelming majority (I'll go with 85%, conservatively).

#18 wjag

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:11 PM

I'm completely agnostic.  If I woke up tomorrow and he was gone I would not miss him.  If he stays, so be it.  If he had any offense at all, I would feel differently.

#19 thesportsbuff

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

Keep him

#20 HopefulFuture

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:45 PM

Kaleta could go, I could care less.
Yes he brings a PK quality, many teams have players like this.
Yes he draws penalties, many teams have players like this.
Yes he plays with blood and guts, some teams have a player like this.
Yes he takes penalties that are unnecessary, some teams have a player like this.
Yes he doesn't answer the bell when called upon, some teams have a player like this.

He's expendable,  not disposable.
He can be replaced with a smarter player for sure, but as for now he serves a purpose, we keep him until a better option emerges.

Edited by HopefulFuture, 18 September 2013 - 08:46 PM.


#21 bunomatic

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:54 PM

pk

#22 Peppy22

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:01 AM

I think this year... stay but next year it will be tough for him when the young players are pushing even harder for a spot on the team.

#23 weave

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:05 AM

View Postwjag, on 18 September 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

I'm completely agnostic.  If I woke up tomorrow and he was gone I would not miss him.  If he stays, so be it.  If he had any offense at all, I would feel differently.

this is about where I stand.

#24 Rox11

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:15 AM

Keep him ... if Buffalo had any type of strong power play, the penalties he does draw, should help with a few goals. His PK is a lot of fun to watch, too.

#25 SneakyPete77

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:30 AM

Keep him.  He gives 100% every shift.  He's decent on the pk, blocks shots, plus he takes the opposition off their game.  Would I like to see him fight more when the opportunity presents itself? Of course, but the fact that he doesn't gets under the oppositions skin even more.  They're more focused on him than their game plan.

Edited by SneakyPete77, 19 September 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#26 Taro T

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

View PostHopefulFuture, on 18 September 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Kaleta could go, I could care less.
Yes he brings a PK quality, many teams have players like this.
Yes he draws penalties, many teams have players like this.
Yes he plays with blood and guts, some teams have a player like this.
Yes he takes penalties that are unnecessary, some teams have a player like this.
Yes he doesn't answer the bell when called upon, some teams have a player like this.

He's expendable,  not disposable.
He can be replaced[ with a smarter player for sure, but as for now he serves a purpose, we keep him until a better option emerges.


Pretty much where I stand.  Wouldd like to see a better player in that role.  Until they have him, I like the local kid.  Would love his play if he could limit the boneheadedness.

#27 Lumpy

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:46 AM

He is one of the few reasons to get excited about the team.  Hustle.  Hard nosed.  Not always 100% smart. Won't take crap.  It is how I would like to think Buffalo is....

#28 tom webster

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:54 AM

There was no reason for him to fight Prust in a preseason game. He made his point by going to the defense if McBain and he let up on Galencyuk after making said point.
I personally think Kaleta may surprise people this year.

#29 DeLuca1967

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

If Kaleta wasn't already a Sabre I doubt anyone would give him any consideration. He's here, he already has the uniform and equipment so they might as well keep him. He's not a player that is going to make or break this franchise by his presence or lack there of. By the time this franchise is ready to really compete, Kaleta will likely be part of a 'Where are they now" article.

#30 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:53 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

If Kaleta wasn't already a Sabre I doubt anyone would give him any consideration. He's here, he already has the uniform and equipment so they might as well keep him. He's not a player that is going to make or break this franchise by his presence or lack there of. By the time this franchise is ready to really compete, Kaleta will likely be part of a 'Where are they now" article.

And yet you thought Thornton was a key to the Bruins.

#31 DeLuca1967

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 19 September 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

And yet you thought Thornton was a key to the Bruins.
Different player in a different situation.

#32 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:58 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:


Different player in a different situation.

Yea, he's a worse player on a better team.

#33 inkman

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 19 September 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Yea, he's a worse player on a better team.
Not that this is related but I'd take both on my 4th line.

#34 beerme1

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 19 September 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

And yet you thought Thornton was a key to the Bruins.

View Postdeluca67, on 19 September 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Different player in a different situation.

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 19 September 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Yea, he's a worse player on a better team.

View Postinkman, on 19 September 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

Not that this is related but I'd take both on my 4th line.

Wait. I'm confused now. :blink:  Is it that Thornton is worse than Kaleta on a better team? Thornton is better than Kaleta on a worse team? Or is it Kaleta is better than Thornton on a worse team? Or Kaleta is worse Thornton on worse team? The season hasn't even started yet and we don't really know what we're going to be dealing with this right here is giving me mixed signals! :w00t:     I'll go with better on a worse team. Whew, feeling better now. Kaleta, I mean.

#35 DeLuca1967

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:06 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 19 September 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Yea, he's a worse player on a better team.
You crack me up some times. :lol:

#36 Heimdall

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:47 AM

keep him he'll score our stanley cup winning goal :P

#37 Sabre Dance

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:43 PM

There are times when Kaleta tries to do too much and winds up delivering a borderline hit.  Then, there are times when he doesn't do enough (like being challenged and not dropping them because he doesn't want to take a penalty for instigating). For an "emotion" guy, sometimes he thinks too much.
For those who remember, the old Broad Street Bullies had a player much like Kaleta: Dave "The Hammer" Schultz. (Who actually wound up as a Sabre later in his career). His style of play was to hit anything that wore an opposing team sweater. The difference is that whenever Schultz was challenged to a fight, he never backed down even if it was a guy who had 4 inches and 25 pounds on him.  Now, I know this was pre-instigator rule, but you knew that if you even looked at Schultz the wrong way, the gloves would come off and your face was going to hurt very soon.
Kaleta needs to take fewer bad penalties (watch those hits from behind) and drop the gloves more often.  He is a very good fighter, and I think if he dropped them even just a little more, other teams would give him a wider berth.  He has the bonus of being a very good penalty killer.  Schultz managed to score a goal here and there, but his real skill (and the reason he was on the team) was to be, well, the Hammer.

#38 Koomkie

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:47 PM

Is that 3 penalties kaleta has drawn already tonight? That guy is 100 percent heart and we are asking if he is needed? Man o man. This thread drives me nuts.

#39 wonderbread

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

View PostKoomkie, on 21 September 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Is that 3 penalties kaleta has drawn already tonight? That guy is 100 percent heart and we are asking if he is needed? Man o man. This thread drives me nuts.
I concur. Guy is a competitor. Love him on my team, dirty borderline hits or not.

#40 Kristian

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostKoomkie, on 21 September 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Is that 3 penalties kaleta has drawn already tonight? That guy is 100 percent heart and we are asking if he is needed? Man o man. This thread drives me nuts.

If we had a PP who could cash some of the penalties he draws, I don't think we'd be having this discussion.

That said, I think Kaleta's value to this team is more a reflection of how soft the team has been the past years, than Kaleta filling a specific gap.