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A full season... 2013-2014

cody hodgson tyler ennis marcus foligno

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#1 LGR4GM

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:07 PM

Cody Hodgson, Tyler Ennis, Marcus Foligno... all 3 of these guys havent played a full season or at least most of one (75%+) since Tyler Ennis did in 2010-2011.  Hodgson and Foligno both saw their development stifled or at least paused somewhat due to the lockout.  Ennis was injured and then had the lockout.

My question is what should we expect from these guys if they actually get a real 82 game season... for 2 of them it will be their first Sabres training camp.  All are young and all have interesting potential... thoughts on them this year?

#2 ubkev

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:11 PM

Ennis 22g 33a
Hodgson 21g 39a
Foligno 12g 15a

That's my prediction for an injury free 82 games. I think Ennis and Hodgson are pretty close to legit 60 point players. And I'm just looking for Foligno to be a beast to play against and chip in when he can offensively.

#3 Tankalicious

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:27 PM

I really think Ennis is about to breakout for a 30 goal season. Put him on Hodgson's wing. Might need to put Ott on the other wing for defensive purposes, but I'd really like to see Ennis and Hodgson together.

#4 sizzlemeister

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:09 AM

I think Ennis is the greatest wildcard of the three.  Sometimes he looks close to breaking out, other times it looks like WYSIWYG.  I think he has potential to be a 30 goal scorer; he actually has some grit to his game.  Will he get there? Toss a coin.

I don't expect Hodgson to be the kind of center the Sabres need.  Way too weak on the back check and no grit at all.  He's like Vanek-lite in that sense, or like a well-adjusted Roy with less defensive skill.  If I had to make a guess, I'd say he will wind up being a disappointment.

Foligno is like a mirror: he reflects the quality of the line he is on.  If his line mates are slumping, then he is slumping, if they're on fire, so is he. I think 12 goals and 20-some-odd assists is about right.  I would like to see him spending time with Ott; Foligno is a perfect candidate for an Ott successor.



#5 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:49 AM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 02 August 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

I think Ennis is the greatest wildcard of the three.  Sometimes he looks close to breaking out, other times it looks like WYSIWYG.  I think he has potential to be a 30 goal scorer; he actually has some grit to his game.  Will he get there? Toss a coin.

I don't expect Hodgson to be the kind of center the Sabres need.  Way too weak on the back check and no grit at all.  He's like Vanek-lite in that sense, or like a well-adjusted Roy with less defensive skill.  If I had to make a guess, I'd say he will wind up being a disappointment.

Foligno is like a mirror: he reflects the quality of the line he is on.  If his line mates are slumping, then he is slumping, if they're on fire, so is he. I think 12 goals and 20-some-odd assists is about right.  I would like to see him spending time with Ott; Foligno is a perfect candidate for an Ott successor.

Hodgson is not going to be Drury.

He is still going to be very good, in his own right.

#6 tom webster

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:49 AM

This is one where I hope I am wrong but I don't see Ennis being part of a quality team. Pretty unusual that Darcy even admitted that drafting him was a mistake although it was actually more of admitting that not drafting Carlson was the mistake.
I expect Hodgson and Foligno to be big parts of the new core.

#7 LGR4GM

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:25 AM

I think Ennis, if he has trained this summer (he should have right?) can be speedy and shifty like always but I think he has a better feel for the net.  This could be his breakout year but it could be a disappointment.  Hodgson should drop a 60pt season and I think his defensive question marks will start to be fixed.

Foligno is my wildcard if you will. I know many on here hated his dangling but it shows there is more to him than just running stuff over. He has good speed and good hands, I want to see this year if he can actually move from solid 3rd line guy maybe into a 2nd line role. I think that is his max potential.

View Postubkev, on 01 August 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Ennis 22g 33a
Hodgson 21g 39a
Foligno 12g 15a
Those numbers I think are in the ballpark.  Foligno could get more assists depending on if this team doesn't suck for the first 40games.

#8 inkman

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:45 AM

View Posttom webster, on 02 August 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

This is one where I hope I am wrong but I don't see Ennis being part of a quality team. Pretty unusual that Darcy even admitted that drafting him was a mistake although it was actually more of admitting that not drafting Carlson was the mistake.
I expect Hodgson and Foligno to be big parts of the new core.
I think we've seen what we are going to get from Ennis.  He's good for 20G 50P on a bad team.  He competes and plays tough for a 150-160 lb kid.  Just not sure what role he's going to have.  I think Hodgson and Grigorenko are the top 2 centers, then the Girgensons and Larsson fight it out for line 3 center and Porter and McCormick fill out the 4th line pivot.  

Can Ennis be an effective NHL winger?  I'd have to see the role he's given.

Edited by inkman, 02 August 2013 - 07:46 AM.


#9 rakish

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:18 AM

On a plus/minus basis, Ennis has been the best center the past two seasons.  He has also been the worst wing.  If they move him to wing, I think he'll be in Columbus by Christmas.  Hodgson and Ennis have been particularly bad together.

If Hodgson signs, I think he'll be good if he doesn't have Ennis or Stafford on his wing (he was also really bad playing with Stafford).  For me that would leave Hodgson with Vanek and Tropp.  Hodgson was good between the change of coaches and the trading deadline when they put Ennis on his  wing.

Foligno was good with Flynn and Porter, not so good with Ennis and Stafford.  I'm guessing he'll play like he did in the second half, which is OK.

#10 That Aud Smell

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:24 AM

View Postinkman, on 02 August 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Can Ennis be an effective NHL winger?  I'd have to see the role he's given.

Arguably, he was well on his way to being a very effective NHL player when they moved him to center. He's clearly not cut out to be a center. If anything, moving him back to the wing could revive his development.

I really like the guy's game and upside. I'll say it for the umpteenth time, he just needs to thicken up a bit -- maybe he could ask Briere for Hugo Girard's phone #.

#11 LGR4GM

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:27 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 02 August 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Arguably, he was well on his way to being a very effective NHL player when they moved him to center. He's clearly not cut out to be a center. If anything, moving him back to the wing could revive his development.

I really like the guy's game and upside. I'll say it for the umpteenth time, he just needs to thicken up a bit -- maybe he could ask Briere for Hugo Girard's phone #.
Interesting that you mention this because I was thinking the same thing about Flynn.  I head Flynn in a SHH interview actually saying his weight was just about ideal at 180-185 because his game was predicated on speed.  With Ennis obviously 157-163ish is still way to light but if he came to camp at say a solid 170 I think that would be good.  Ennis' speed, skating, hands... make me wonder what he can really do and if we have already seen it.

#12 inkman

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostRCentered, on 02 August 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

If Hodgson signs...
Like the other 99.999999999% of RFA's that have signed with their teams?

#13 rakish

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:40 AM

View Postinkman, on 02 August 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Like the other 99.999999999% of RFA's that have signed with their teams?

Not saying it won't happen in the end, let's just say I'm following that story with interest, I think they are a long way apart.

#14 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:14 AM

View PostRCentered, on 02 August 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:



Not saying it won't happen in the end, let's just say I'm following that story with interest, I think they are a long way apart.

Either that, or nobody is in a rush, like Henrique said in this article:

http://prohockeytalk...ct-with-devils/

#15 SwampD

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:32 AM

Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno aside, I'm really interested in seeing what happens in the Sabres' first full season not under Ruff since before the whole Y2K scare. Not meant as a bash, just excited to see something different and it's trumping everything else I'm looking forward to next year.

#16 ubkev

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 02 August 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I think Ennis, if he has trained this summer (he should have right?) can be speedy and shifty like always but I think he has a better feel for the net.  This could be his breakout year but it could be a disappointment.  Hodgson should drop a 60pt season and I think his defensive question marks will start to be fixed.

Foligno is my wildcard if you will. I know many on here hated his dangling but it shows there is more to him than just running stuff over. He has good speed and good hands, I want to see this year if he can actually move from solid 3rd line guy maybe into a 2nd line role. I think that is his max potential.


Those numbers I think are in the ballpark.  Foligno could get more assists depending on if this team doesn't suck for the first 40games.

I low balled Foligno because of my expectations for his game. I would like to see him making life miserable for every team that plays us every time he's on the ice. I don't think he's got the offensive ability to put up Lucic's scoring numbers, but I would like to see him put up Lucic's physical game. I'd be pretty pumped with him being a Cal Clutterbuck clone physically with about ten more points a year.

#17 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:45 PM

http://canucksarmy.c...17/point-totals

Article is a couple years old, but I think it does a good job illustrating how unrealistic people can be with their expectations.

#18 Eleven

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 02 August 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

http://canucksarmy.c...17/point-totals

Article is a couple years old, but I think it does a good job illustrating how unrealistic people can be with their expectations.

COREY TROPP IS GOING TO HAVE NINE HUNDRED POINTZ!!11!1!!!

#19 weave

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:19 PM

View PostEleven, on 04 August 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

COREY TROPP IS GOING TO HAVE NINE HUNDRED POINTZ!!11!1!!!

No way Corey Tropp plays in 20 NHL seasons.  :D

#20 waldo

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:25 AM

I like Ennis and think he is at his best as a second line winger.  Can not see him playing against the shutdown lines. He is far too easy to hit nor can i see him finishing a couple of playoff series in a row when it matters or 65+ games a year. In the final analysis i guess his durability is moot. given the fact the Sabres will not see the second round of the playoffs for a decade or so. If he plays on the second line as a winger I can see him put up 20 in 60 games... more if there was more skill on this team but right now I think he is a 20 goal  50 pt guy.  I do not see Cody resigning but as far as his goals and assists go this year, if he signs,  the question will becomes,will he be playing with Vanek ? No Vanek, means no skill to play with, less space, and  fewer scoring chances..who knows what he puts up in that scenario. His shot is not going to fool  or beat a nhl goalie  so he has to rely on dirty goals  . I do see him becoming more of a shoot first center , a l-a Roy, as he presses to put up numbers without 26 .

Edited by waldo, 05 August 2013 - 11:01 AM.


#21 ubkev

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

View Postwaldo, on 05 August 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

I like Ennis and think he is at his best as a second line winger.  Can not see him playing against the shutdown lines. He is far too easy to hit nor can i see him finishing a couple of playoff series in a row when it matters or 65+ games a year. In the final analysis i guess his durability is moot. given the fact the Sabres will not see the second round of the playoffs for a decade or so. If he plays on the second line as a winger I can see him put up 20 in 60 games... more if there was more skill on this team but right now I think he is a 20 goal  50 pt guy.  I do not see Cody resigning but as far as his goals and assists go this year, if he signs,  the question will becomes,will he be playing with Vanek ? No Vanek, means no skill to play with, less space, and  fewer scoring chances..who knows what he puts up in that scenario. His shot is not going to fool  or beat a nhl goalie  so he has to rely on dirty goals  . I do see him becoming more of a shoot first center , a l-a Roy, as he presses to put up numbers without 26 .

Hodgson received his qualifying offer from the Sabres so he can either sign it, renegotiate a new deal or decline it and remain an RFA. He has no option to sign with another team unless he gets an offer sheet. If he doesn't sign his QO or come to a contract agreement by December 1st he has to sit out the entire season. He'll resign or we'll get picks. He's not sitting out a season.

#22 Spndnchz

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:48 PM

View Postubkev, on 05 August 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Hodgson received his qualifying offer from the Sabres so he can either sign it, renegotiate a new deal or decline it and remain an RFA. He has no option to sign with another team unless he gets an offer sheet. If he doesn't sign his QO or come to a contract agreement by December 1st he has to sit out the entire season. He'll resign or we'll get picks. He's not sitting out a season.

Technically, his QO expired last month. He needs a deal.  But like you said it's with the Sabres or we get picks because someone OS'd him.

#23 waldo

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:08 PM

View Postubkev, on 05 August 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Hodgson received his qualifying offer from the Sabres so he can either sign it, renegotiate a new deal or decline it and remain an RFA. He has no option to sign with another team unless he gets an offer sheet. If he doesn't sign his QO or come to a contract agreement by December 1st he has to sit out the entire season. He'll resign or we'll get picks. He's not sitting out a season.

He probably ends up getting traded if he decides not to sign or renegotiate for his number , it is the smart way out for both parties if the sabres feel his number is too high. That  was the point  . It is either that or accept an offer . Either way he has an out if he wants it and it is not too painful. .Do you think there is a team out there that would offer? ...He and his father have already proved they are not shy. His value has increased given the year he had with Vanek and Pom , which he would not have had elsewhere. What happens to his numbers/value without Vanek/Pom. You think Grigs helps him on the wing. lol . If you are him do you stay with this ship if they do not want to hit your number or go collect your money elsewhere.?

Edited by waldo, 05 August 2013 - 05:13 PM.


#24 inkman

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:38 PM


View Postwaldo, on 05 August 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

He probably ends up getting traded if he decides not to sign or renegotiate , it is the smart way out for both parties. That  was the point  . It is either that or accept an offer . Either way he has an out if he wants it and it is not too painful. .Do you think there is a team out there that would offer? ...He and his father have already proved they are not shy. His value has increased given the year he had with Vanek and Pom , which he would not have had elsewhere. What happens to his numbers/value without Vanek/Pom. You think Grigs helps him on the wing. lol . If you are him do you stay with this ship or go collect your money.?
There is a zero % chance he's not a Sabre come October.  Moving him would be an epic fail on a cataclysmic level.  They might as well trade every player they have and just sign a bunch of AHLers to fill out the roster with that mentality.

Edited by inkman, 05 August 2013 - 04:39 PM.


#25 ThirtyEight

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:52 PM

Every decent RFA remains unsigned. Stop panicking folks. It is normal and part of the process

#26 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 05 August 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Every decent RFA remains unsigned. Stop panicking folks. It is normal and part of the process

Seriously.  It's like we go through this every single year, and every single year has the same result:  the unsigned RFAs sign with their respective teams before camp opens.

#27 tom webster

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 05:23 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 05 August 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Every decent RFA remains unsigned. Stop panicking folks. It is normal and part of the process

There are several more then decent RFA's unsigned but it is incorrect to say EVERY one remains unsigned. Several have slready resigned.
That being said, I expect Hodgdon to sign with the Sabres in the next two weeks.

#28 qwksndmonster

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:29 AM

View Postwaldo, on 05 August 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

His shot is not going to fool  or beat a nhl goalie  so he has to rely on dirty goals
What?



I guess Tim Thomas wasn't in the NHL this year...

#29 waldo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:57 AM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 06 August 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

What?



I guess Tim Thomas wasn't in the NHL this year...

LOL.. you are kidding right? a shot with a  1-100 chance from the  boards that probably gets deflected by the defender and hits the far post and goes in is proof he can shoot.. Be honest man we are not talking Stafford here . should I show you the other fifty that look very pedestrian.  How many videos did you look at to find the only one that would work for your story line...lol

Edited by waldo, 06 August 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#30 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:08 AM

View Postwaldo, on 06 August 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:



LOL.. you are kidding right? a shot with a  1-100 chance from the  boards that probably gets deflected by the defender and hits the far post and goes in is proof he can shoot.. Be honest man we are not talking Stafford here . should I show you the other fifty that look very pedestrian.  How many videos did you look at to find the only one that would work for your story line...lol

Literally the first result on YouTube. Yup, pedestrian all right. :rolleyes:







#31 waldo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

View Postinkman, on 05 August 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:



There is a zero % chance he's not a Sabre come October.  Moving him would be an epic fail on a cataclysmic level.  They might as well trade every player they have and just sign a bunch of AHLers to fill out the roster with that mentality.

How did he come to the Sabres?. I think some of his old teams fans said the same thing at the same time . I see it as they either re-negotiate a larger number or  trade??? Will he be here, probably but he has to wonder about his future with a ground zero rebuild. I can see him go in a trade if he has sent the signal(least bloody scenario). I agree he probably stays but for a very short term bigger money deal. Lets assume you are Cody.. you know have good numbers because you played with skill, you are worth more. Now you are looking at less skill and a complete rebuild. Your line mates are going to be ? How do you play it. It probably ends imo with short term more money deal but you have to give  a trade honorable mention if he wants it

Edited by waldo, 06 August 2013 - 08:14 AM.


#32 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:16 AM

Pedestrian that Hodgson has great awareness that puts him in scoring position.





Cody Hodgson sucks at puck control



#33 waldo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:16 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 06 August 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:



Literally the first result on YouTube. Yup, pedestrian all right. :rolleyes:




Was there more than one lol

You should really work on comprehension. take some time when you read others posts . absorb the material. go back to the original post.. read the exchange so you have some context .use some quotes from the post you are responding to. .I never said he could not score, never said he could not carry the puck or that he did not have potential or any of the things you imagined .. I said he was never going to fool anybody with his shot, at least those that are not deflected and go in off the post..lol ..I said he scored dirty goals (a good thing)............is he a keeper. yep a good 3 now maybe 2 in the future "MAYBE" is the operative word here.. does he want to stay and play with less talent and help with a ground zero rebuild. Will his numbers go up if he does stay? If his numbers drop is he worth less? my guess is NO,he would choose not to stay,  the money is driver here as it always is . it makes it easier for a player to abandon the dream. lol ///.. if it is not right  ..we will see what happens.

Edited by waldo, 06 August 2013 - 08:37 AM.


#34 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:19 AM

View Postwaldo, on 06 August 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:



Was there more than one lol

You want me to post every video of Hodgson making a great play on YouTube?

#35 waldo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:37 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 06 August 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:



You want me to post every video of Hodgson making a great play on YouTube?

Please do every one where he shoots.. maybe you should really start by reading my response to the  halucinationations in your post... lol fill the page  with video if it makes you happy LOL.

Edited by waldo, 06 August 2013 - 08:43 AM.


#36 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:52 AM

View Postwaldo, on 06 August 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:



Please do every one where he shoots.. maybe you should really start by reading my response to the  halucinationations in your post... lol fill the page  with video if it makes you happy LOL.

If the only thing you care about is Hodgson's shooting ability then you don't even understand the role Hodgson is here to play.

#37 waldo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:55 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 06 August 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:



If the only thing you care about is Hodgson's shooting ability then you don't even understand the role Hodgson is here to play.

Could you show me where I said that in any of my posts? lol ...here ..I want to help...you feel better

https://www.youtube....h?v=KnysXHAL8DI

Edited by waldo, 06 August 2013 - 08:56 AM.


#38 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:56 AM

View Postwaldo, on 06 August 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:



Could you show me where I said that in any of my posts? lol ...here ..I want to help...

https://www.youtube....h?v=KnysXHAL8DI

You said he had to rely on dirty goals because his shot isn't going to fool people. Who cares? He's putting the puck in the net right?

#39 inkman

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:30 AM

View Postwaldo, on 05 August 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

His shot is not going to fool  or beat a nhl goalie  so he has to rely on dirty goals
This is just patently false.  You can criticize the kid in many ways, first and foremost should be his skating and back checking but his shot is nowhere near the top of that list. It's actually one if his strengths.  Don't just take it from me.

http://vansunsportsb...h-his-slapshot/

"Just one week ago, the Canucks played the Bruins in the most thrilling game of the season. During the contest, Canucks fans witnessed one of the dirtiest things you will ever see in hockey. I’m not talking about Brad Marchand low-bridging Sami Salo; I’m talking about Cody Hodgson’s filthy slapshot that blew past Tim Thomas for the gamewinning goal. It was, as the kids say, sick, ill, and nasty.
You just don’t see slapshots like that any more, at least from a forward’s stick. The slapshot is normally the domain of the hulking blueliner who is able to put a massive amount of leverage on the stick to propel the puck forward. The two modern-day masters of the slapshot are Zdeno Chara, who is 6’9″ and 255 lbs, and Shea Weber, who is 6’4″ and 232 lbs.
Hodgson is an even 6′ and weighs a mere 185 lbs. Yet his slapshot is both blistering and precise."

#40 d4rksabre

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:50 AM

2:25 against Jimmy Howard is a thing of beauty.



Also there's a great look at that goal against Thomas where, despite waldo's contention otherwise, that puck never hits anything on the way to the back of the net. Straight rocket.

Picking top corner against Hiller at 3:54, wow.

Breakaway on Crawford at 4:44.

Are we really questioning this kid's offensive ability?