Jump to content


What's the matter with Canada?


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 dudacek

dudacek

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:High and wide

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:11 PM

What do Nick Baptiste, Justin Kea and Dan Catenacci have in common, other than the fact they are Sabre third-rounders? They are all Canadians, three of only five chosen in the past three drafts.
In a league that is 54 percent Canadian, the Sabres have taken just 20 percent of their last 25 picks from the red and white, none of them in the first two rounds.

Thirteen Sabre picks - 52 percent - in that period are Americans, nearly double the league average of 27 percent. (About 22 percent of NHLers are American). Other nationalities picked by Buffalo: Sweden 2, Russia 2, Finland 2, Latvia 1.

It doesn't appear to be a coincidence, rather, it seems part of a deliberate focus away from the 49th in an attempt to use the extra development time available in college and overseas.

Thought it was worth discussing.

Edited by dudacek, 15 July 2013 - 11:13 PM.


#2 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    Texting Nun

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,868 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:30 PM

So 76% of NHL players are North American........Darcy has made 20 1st round draft picks. 60% are from Europe and 40% are North American. Obviously that has spelled success.......

#3 Lanny

Lanny

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 15 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

So 76% of NHL players are North American........Darcy has made 20 1st round draft picks. 60% are from Europe and 40% are North American. Obviously that has spelled success.......
Interestingly 7 of the 8 North American players could be considered good picks.

Edited by Lanny, 15 July 2013 - 11:42 PM.


#4 Ghost of Dwight Drane

Ghost of Dwight Drane

    Texting Nun

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,868 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:45 PM

View PostLanny, on 15 July 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Interestingly 7 of the 8 North American players could be considered good picks.
Don't include Kassian...we all know he sucks!

#5 bunomatic

bunomatic

    bunomatic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,757 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nanaimo,B.C.,Canada

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:00 AM

Having RR in the fold probably helps in their desire for american picks simply because he knows many of the players through the U.S. development program. That and the fact that the U.S. is producing some great players as well as the european leagues. Canada can't continue to be dominant in supplying players to the NHL forever. Everyone else has caught up or surpassed them in this game and having a relatively small pool (app.35 million )  to choose from tips the balance also. But as far as recent picks it would be Rolstons influence imo.

#6 Moulson26

Moulson26

    Blood and Guts

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,620 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:30 AM

View Postdudacek, on 15 July 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

In a league that is 54 percent Canadian, the Sabres have taken just 20 percent of their last 25 picks from the red and white, none of them in the first two rounds.

This can't be accurate. Mark Pysyk was our first round pick in 2010. Seven of our eight picks that draft were from Canada.

Outside of the 25, Kassian was #1 in 2009, 4 of our 6 picks that year were also from Canada. 2008 was Myers #1 and Adam #2.

#7 Andrew Amerk

Andrew Amerk

    Heart Means Everything.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,388 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:35 AM

View PostVanek-Man, on 16 July 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:



This can't be accurate. Mark Pysyk was our first round pick in 2010. Seven of our eight picks that draft were from Canada.

Outside of the 25, Kassian was #1 in 2009, 4 of our 6 picks that year were also from Canada. 2008 was Myers #1 and Adam #2.

Myers is from Texas.

#8 ubkev

ubkev

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,117 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pennsyltucky via Upstate NY

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:43 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 16 July 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:



Myers is from Texas.

Dual citizenship and plays for Canada

#9 Moulson26

Moulson26

    Blood and Guts

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,620 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:45 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 16 July 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

Myers is from Texas.

He was born in Houston, but grew up in Canada. And he represents Canada at the national team level. This topic isn't about Darcy hating on Canadian-born players, as much as it is avoiding the Canadian youth system in the draft. Myers fits into that for Canada.

In any case, it's a total coincidence i think.

#10 IKnowPhysics

IKnowPhysics

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,589 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:48 AM

We're a good drafting team.  No, it's not an exact science.  And yes, it's a lot of it's luck.  But we're ###### better at it than a lot of teams.

There's a lot of rankings out there concerning the best drafting team over a range of years, and they all use different statistical methods.  I've never seen us ranked in the bottom half of the league and rarely do I see us outside of the top five.  A recent analysis put us at #3 for years 1999-2009.  An older ranking for 2001-2007 put us also extremely high, and the best in the league for rounds 2-7 for that time period, while another put us best overall for 2001-2007 at games played per pick.

All of those years we couldn't/didn't sign big contracts, or even keep the players we had drafted and developed, we could still ice an at least decent team because we drafted well and had a pretty good development.  If we didn't at least have that, we would've been ###### atrocious for a long damn time, like the Florida Panthers-bad or the Columbus Blue Jackets-bad.

At the end of the day, I couldn't care where our players are from (although it's nice to see hometown kids turn into Sabre warriors).  We've drafted well and when it comes to drafting,  I trusted DR and Jim Benning, and now I trust DR and Kevin Devine.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 16 July 2013 - 12:49 AM.


#11 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,835 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:02 AM

I'm glad we don't draft Canadians anymore.  Those ######, if they don't get what they want they just bolt to the Canukistan Hockey League and play for big dollars there anyway.  And they are lazy and need to be drafted in pairs or they have no freinds.

Did I miss any?

#12 Lanny

Lanny

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:24 AM

View PostVanek-Man, on 16 July 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

This can't be accurate. Mark Pysyk was our first round pick in 2010. Seven of our eight picks that draft were from Canada.

Outside of the 25, Kassian was #1 in 2009, 4 of our 6 picks that year were also from Canada. 2008 was Myers #1 and Adam #2.
Pysyk was outside of the last 25 as well. It includes the 2011-2013 drafts.

#13 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,096 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:30 AM

This also includes Grigorenko and Zadorov, two Russians currently playing in the Canadian system.  In terms of taking advantage of guys with a longer time to develop, they definitely like doing that with the later round picks, which I really can't blame them for doing.

#14 dudacek

dudacek

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:High and wide

Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:44 AM

Like Physics says, we tend to be a good drafting team. And Darcy is not adverse to analytics.
Are there numbers that show you have a better chance of hitting on low-ranked players if they are coming from outside the Canadian junior leagues?
Miller, Datsyuk, Zetterberg are among the first late-round stars that come to mind. None are Canadian.
Simply anecdotal I know. But common sense tells you being outside the CHL-centric old boy scouting system heightens your chances of slipping through the cracks,
And getting four years to develop instead of two gives you more time to find yourself.
I wonder if they've done studies that have pushed them in this direction.

#15 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

View Postdudacek, on 16 July 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Like Physics says, we tend to be a good drafting team. And Darcy is not adverse to analytics.
Are there numbers that show you have a better chance of hitting on low-ranked players if they are coming from outside the Canadian junior leagues?
Miller, Datsyuk, Zetterberg are among the first late-round stars that come to mind. None are Canadian.
Simply anecdotal I know. But common sense tells you being outside the CHL-centric old boy scouting system heightens your chances of slipping through the cracks,
And getting four years to develop instead of two gives you more time to find yourself.
I wonder if they've done studies that have pushed them in this direction.

Well I couldn't speak to your other hyposthesis about taking non candians, I can say that with the # of draft picks in the last 2 years (19total) I would guess DR and company want to space them out a bit and by taking players that don't have to be signed for 4 years as opposed to 2 (is that correct?).  For instance Connor Hurley is still 17 and because of his USHL and College committs we don't have to worry about him being on the Amercks until 2017.  That gives other players who don't have that luxury the time to develop in the AHL for instance.  It gives us time and space.

#16 Eleven

Eleven

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,563 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:51 AM

All the people have beady eyes, and their heads flap when they talk.

#17 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:54 AM

as far as the Canadian thing goes without doing really any research other than looking here: http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks

In the last 2 years are Canadian draft picks have been down but in 2010 all but 1 of our 9 picks was Canadian

View PostEleven, on 16 July 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

All the people have beady eyes, and their heads flap when they talk.
ITS TRUE I HAVE PROOF!!!!!!!!!!


#18 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,096 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:20 AM

The joke stood on its own.  Did you really have to hammer it home with the youtube link?

#19 apuszczalowski

apuszczalowski

    Commander of the Armies of the North

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,758 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:30 AM

Yup, Darcys drafting has been superb and better then the rest, its why the Sabres are currently on the verge of a dynasty right? its why I have already put my name on the waiting list for the 2013-14 Stanley Cup Championship home games in Buffalo.

Seriously, how great have his drafts been and have they really been better then any other teams? How many great players has his drafting brought us and what kind of success has it brought the franchise? He's had what, 15 years of drafts, how many of the guys that he has drafted have gone on to be top level talent in the NHL? How many of his draft choices from the top couple rounds of the draft have gone on to become great NHL players for Buffalo or another team and not just average depth players?

Edited by apuszczalowski, 16 July 2013 - 09:31 AM.


#20 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:41 AM

View Postshrader, on 16 July 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

The joke stood on its own.  Did you really have to hammer it home with the youtube link?
Yes.

#21 IKnowPhysics

IKnowPhysics

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,589 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:44 AM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Yup, Darcys drafting has been superb and better then the rest, its why the Sabres are currently on the verge of a dynasty right? its why I have already put my name on the waiting list for the 2013-14 Stanley Cup Championship home games in Buffalo.

If you think great drafting is the only ingredient in the Stanley Cup cake, you'd be a fool.  No one thinks that.

Quote

Seriously, how great have his drafts been and have they really been better then any other teams? How many great players has his drafting brought us and what kind of success has it brought the franchise? He's had what, 15 years of drafts, how many of the guys that he has drafted have gone on to be top level talent in the NHL? How many of his draft choices from the top couple rounds of the draft have gone on to become great NHL players for Buffalo or another team and not just average depth players?

Others have done that analysis.  Darcy's draft picks, with one or two exceptions, have never been that high in the first round.  His highest was Vanek at #5, and Vanek is a top player.  Some of the value DR brings to the drafting table comes in rounds 2-7, where you mostly find depth players or busts.  We've had the fortune of even finding a star or two (Miller).  For where we draft, we pick pretty well.  Many, many teams are really bad at this.

Edited by IKnowPhysics, 16 July 2013 - 11:24 AM.


#22 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,096 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 16 July 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Yes.

I think we should have a thread where you and blitz communicate with each other exclusively with twitter posts and youtube videos.

#23 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,835 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:08 AM

View Postshrader, on 16 July 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think we should have a thread where you and blitz communicate with each other exclusively with twitter posts and youtube videos.

And yet another example of why we need a thread ignore feature.

#24 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:12 AM

View Postweave, on 16 July 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

And yet another example of why we need a thread ignore feature.
We have a poster ignore feature don't we? If Shrader dislikes me that much I say go ahead and use it.

#25 weave

weave

    Self-appointed Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,835 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:in your head

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:19 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 16 July 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

We have a poster ignore feature don't we? If Shrader dislikes me that much I say go ahead and use it.

Relax Liger.  You are a much better poster when you keep your emotions in check.  Don't take him/us/this board so damn seriously.  it is a diversion.

#26 apuszczalowski

apuszczalowski

    Commander of the Armies of the North

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,758 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:55 AM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 16 July 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you think great drafting is the only ingredient in the Stanley Cup cake, you'd be a fool.  No one thinks that.



Others have done that analysis.  Darcy's draft picks, with one or two exceptions, have never been that high in the first round.  His highest was Vanek at #5, and Vanek is a top player.  Some of the value DR brings to the drafting table comes in rounds 2-7, where you mostly find depth players or busts.  We've had the fortune of even finding a star or two (Miller).  For where we draft, we pick pretty well.  Many, many teams are really bad at this.
In his 15 years of drafting for the Sabres, he is back to square one with nothing to show for it

Its funny how youdon't hear other GMs complain that they would be much better if only they had the chance to pick at the top instead of in the middle

So again, provide some of these great draft picks that Darcy has made that have/currently are tearing it up in the NHL either for Buffalo or someone else

You already got it started with Vanek (a #5 pick) and Miller (someone many here argue is mid level at best, but not elite)

heres a link to a list, even includes their stats for cames played in the NHL
http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks
How many of the guys that Darcy has had a hand in drafting over his many years here have been wows that make him stand out as a great drafter of talent and better then other GMs who haven't had a decade and a half at their jobs with the same organization

#27 Spndnchz

Spndnchz

    Ass. Player Agent

  • SS Mod Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,649 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Fracking Shanahan's house

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:30 PM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

In his 15 years of drafting for the Sabres, he is back to square one with nothing to show for it

Its funny how youdon't hear other GMs complain that they would be much better if only they had the chance to pick at the top instead of in the middle

So again, provide some of these great draft picks that Darcy has made that have/currently are tearing it up in the NHL either for Buffalo or someone else

You already got it started with Vanek (a #5 pick) and Miller (someone many here argue is mid level at best, but not elite)

heres a link to a list, even includes their stats for cames played in the NHL
http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks
How many of the guys that Darcy has had a hand in drafting over his many years here have been wows that make him stand out as a great drafter of talent and better then other GMs who haven't had a decade and a half at their jobs with the same organization

I don't know.  How many?

#28 shrader

shrader

    National Oranization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,096 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:31 PM

View Postweave, on 16 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Relax Liger.  You are a much better poster when you keep your emotions in check.  Don't take him/us/this board so damn seriously.  it is a diversion.

I'm dead serious.  I bet they could pull it off.

#29 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:40 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 16 July 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

We have a poster ignore feature don't we? If Shrader dislikes me that much I say go ahead and use it.

Not even necessary. Just consider the source, laugh it off, and do as you will.

#30 qwksndmonster

qwksndmonster

    Livve Neilo

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horseheads

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:43 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 16 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Not even necessary. Just consider the source, laugh it off, and do as you will.
Like perhaps: Is the source well known as a wet-blanket or the all time complaint-thursday post leader? :ph34r:

#31 IKnowPhysics

IKnowPhysics

    Second Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,589 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Its funny how youdon't hear other GMs complain that they would be much better if only they had the chance to pick at the top instead of in the middle

Because to pick at the top, it usually means you had to do this:

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

back to square one with nothing to show for it
All of these recent Cup winners were dogshit for quite a while to gain those picks that they built around.  Not every team is willing to do this.

So we're at square one.  DR chose to be at square one, because sitting idly at square three, unable to advance to square four wasn't cutting it.  So we cut bait and gathered picks.  And frankly, with the number of first and second round draft picks we've stock piled/already picked, and DR's pretty good draft history, I'm pretty hopeful of where we're headed in the future, despite not being able to draft in the top three... yet.

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

So again, provide some of these great draft picks that Darcy has made that have/currently are tearing it up in the NHL either for Buffalo or someone else...
How many of the guys that Darcy has had a hand in drafting over his many years here have been wows that make him stand out as a great drafter of talent and better then other GMs who haven't had a decade and a half at their jobs with the same organization

Provide a list of players that were picked later than our picks that "have been wows," performed irrefutabliy better than the players we chose, better suited our organizational needs at the time than the player we chose, and make their GMs stand out as great drafters.  And then factor in enormous busts for those GMs.  And then factor in all of the other GMs that passed on those players.  And then remember that entire list is ###### retarded because hindsight's 20/20 and it's impossible to draft perfectly.

While not wasting top picks on busts is staple of good drafting, excellent drafting is defined by consistently getting good value for the pick, while meeting organizational needs.  Anecdotally, Miller in the 5th round is an outstanding pick; hindsight says he would've gone in the first two rounds.

#32 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 16 July 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Like perhaps: Is the source well known as a wet-blanket or the all time complaint-thursday post leader? :ph34r:
Yepper! Definitely an OB!

Edited by 26CornerBlitz, 16 July 2013 - 12:49 PM.


#33 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

Darcy and company draft well because they are able to get NHL players.  Some of those players are if not all did not turn into super stars but they are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and solid 4th liners non the less.  Is he better than other GM's at drafting? Idk probably a good chunk of them.  Is there other things to criticize Darcy over besides his drafting? yes.  Darcy has found NHL quality talent in multiple drafts and that is do in part to his scouting department and Kevin Devine.  The real test of GM is more about maximizing assets. I am not sure Darcy has or will always do this.

#34 qwksndmonster

qwksndmonster

    Livve Neilo

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horseheads

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 16 July 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Darcy and company draft well because they are able to get NHL players.  Some of those players are if not all did not turn into super stars but they are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and solid 4th liners non the less.  Is he better than other GM's at drafting? Idk probably a good chunk of them.  Is there other things to criticize Darcy over besides his drafting? yes.  Darcy has found NHL quality talent in multiple drafts and that is do in part to his scouting department and Kevin Devine.  The real test of GM is more about maximizing assets. I am not sure Darcy has or will always do this.
I don't know, Darcy seems pretty good at maximizing assets, but not good at building a roster.  Or having a plan really.

#35 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 16 July 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

I don't know, Darcy seems pretty good at maximizing assets, but not good at building a roster.  Or having a plan really.
good point, I should rephrase: The real test of GM is about maximizing assets in order to build a coherent quality roster of players that have the necessary balance of skills to challenge for a Stanley Cup.

In this I would say Darcy has not done it over the past 7 years.

#36 26CornerBlitz

26CornerBlitz

    1970

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Jersey

Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:01 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 16 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

good point, I should rephrase: The real test of GM is about maximizing assets in order to build a coherent quality roster of players that have the necessary balance of skills to challenge for a Stanley Cup.

In this I would say Darcy has not done it over the past 7 years.

Hello, My name is Stan Bowman.

#37 apuszczalowski

apuszczalowski

    Commander of the Armies of the North

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,758 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 16 July 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Because to pick at the top, it usually means you had to do this:

All of these recent Cup winners were dogshit for quite a while to gain those picks that they built around.  Not every team is willing to do this.

So we're at square one.  DR chose to be at square one, because sitting idly at square three, unable to advance to square four wasn't cutting it.  So we cut bait and gathered picks.  And frankly, with the number of first and second round draft picks we've stock piled/already picked, and DR's pretty good draft history, I'm pretty hopeful of where we're headed in the future, despite not being able to draft in the top three... yet.


Provide a list of players that were picked later than our picks that "have been wows," performed irrefutabliy better than the players we chose, better suited our organizational needs at the time than the player we chose, and make their GMs stand out as great drafters.  And then factor in enormous busts for those GMs.  And then factor in all of the other GMs that passed on those players.  And then remember that entire list is ###### retarded because hindsight's 20/20 and it's impossible to draft perfectly.

While not wasting top picks on busts is staple of good drafting, excellent drafting is defined by consistently getting good value for the pick, while meeting organizational needs.  Anecdotally, Miller in the 5th round is an outstanding pick; hindsight says he would've gone in the first two rounds.
Ah, I see how this works, since you can't answer a simple question that really should be very easy to do because Darcy is such an amazing Drafter of Talent, your only defene is to throw it back with even more restrictions.

As for your first part about these teams that have been bad for a long time to accumulate these top picks, how many of them took 15 years to assemble a team thats able to win? How many of them had 1/3 of that time to do it? Chicago and pittsburgh are the only 2 previous winners that had been bad enough to get multiple top 5 picks and win it. Who else, The Kings? The Bruins?

#38 Lanny

Lanny

    Third Liner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

The Kings? The Bruins?
The Kings had top 5 picks in 2007, 2008 and 2009. Bruins in 2006 & 2010

Edited by Lanny, 16 July 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#39 apuszczalowski

apuszczalowski

    Commander of the Armies of the North

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,758 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostLGR4GM, on 16 July 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Darcy and company draft well because they are able to get NHL players.  Some of those players are if not all did not turn into super stars but they are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and solid 4th liners non the less.  Is he better than other GM's at drafting? Idk probably a good chunk of them.  Is there other things to criticize Darcy over besides his drafting? yes.  Darcy has found NHL quality talent in multiple drafts and that is do in part to his scouting department and Kevin Devine.  The real test of GM is more about maximizing assets. I am not sure Darcy has or will always do this.
Take a look at the list and go back to 2000, theres alot of players there that never sniffed an NHL ice surface. I would bet you could take a look at any GMs records at drafting and find similar results

#40 LGR4GM

LGR4GM

    Poop Flavored Lollypop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tanking it Old School

Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

View Postapuszczalowski, on 16 July 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Take a look at the list and go back to 2000, theres alot of players there that never sniffed an NHL ice surface. I would bet you could take a look at any GMs records at drafting and find similar results
maybe you could.  but I bet there are some worst and some better.