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This Whole "suffering" Comment - It Means Nothing


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#1 CallawaySabres

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:23 PM

To me, it does not mean the Sabres are going to be a bottom dweller. I think it means we have about 2-3 years to contend and it ends all this Pegulamania, sole reason garbage. The fact of the matter is they stated that they want this team (as it stands right now) to be tough to play against. I think the size, toughness and leadership qualities are in the pipeline and at the end of next year (when the cap goes up), FA will be a key ingredient to round out this team.

I believe we will see a hard nosed team this year that will be a hell of a lot more respected than the crap they rolled out last year. I still believe Myers is the lynch pin and IF he can get back on track, the team will be a lot further along than expected. Myers, Risto, Weber, Girgs, Ott and Foligno will hold the fort down until the top offensive prospects reach their potential.

Anyhow, I don't seem to think this team is as far away as many others do. Playoffs this year? Don't really care as long as a team identity is formed. If they say the goal is to be tough to play against, make it so (win or lose.)

#2 HopefulFuture

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:29 PM

After reviewing the historical actions of the GM (Regier, Darcy, lack of action man due to lack of pressure to perform his job) combined with his choices at the draft today, not the selections themselves, merely the lack of balls. The true ability to sell what is needed to get done what needs getting done, I've come to the conclusion that the "whole suffering comment" was as true as they come......

Prepare to feel the pain my friend.......

#3 CallawaySabres

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:38 PM

View PostHopefulFuture, on 30 June 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

After reviewing the historical actions of the GM (Regier, Darcy, lack of action man due to lack of pressure to perform his job) combined with his choices at the draft today, not the selections themselves, merely the lack of balls. The true ability to sell what is needed to get done what needs getting done, I've come to the conclusion that the "whole suffering comment" was as true as they come......

Prepare to feel the pain my friend.......

No way the pain is worse than last year, no way.....

#4 Bullwinkle III

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:41 PM

I expect nothing.  I take the 'suffering' tag literally.  It will be painful watching Gerbe, Ennis, Hodgson, Stafford, Leino, Grigorenko, Porter and Flynn try to score goals.  None of them are true goal scorers.  I don't expect Vanek to be here, but if he is, it will simply mean that a trade for him is even more unlikely.  Resign him?  Are you crazy?  He wouldn't be worth the cap hit he'd require.  Plus he doesn't want to wait until Darcy's chemistry experiment is concluded.

Meanwhile on D we can watch Risto try to match the NHL speed and rink size, Myers attempt to play like he cares, Ruhwedl and Pysyk attempt to defy the sophomore blues, with only Ehrhoff, Weber, and Sulzer as reliable but average defensemen.

Of course in goal we will have Enroth (If Miller is still there refer to Vanek above).  Untried for the long haul with no proven backup.

Oh yeah, I'm real optimistic.  Like I said before, Darcy must be aiming at a high draft pick next year.  Unfortunately that class won't be as talented and deep as this one.

Prepare for a lot of suffering!!!

#5 sizzlemeister

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:25 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 30 June 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:



No way the pain is worse than last year, no way.....

Next season is a full season.

#6 RambosKnife

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:09 AM

If your Vanek its confirmation that you need to move on.  If your a FA it means avoid becoming a Sabre.  If your a fan it means another mediocre season.  If your management it means business as usual.  If your Pegula it means throw money at the city in an attempt to distract them.  Your right, the comment means nothing.

#7 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:24 AM

View Postsizzlemeister, on 01 July 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:



Next season is a full season.

Yikes

#8 qwksndmonster

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:31 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 01 July 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

Yikes
Plenty of time for our horrible possession and porous defense to balance out any amazing goal tending stints.  We're getting that #1, baby.

#9 CallawaySabres

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

Maybe it's the check I just sent in the mail last week. Maybe it's the direction I HOPE they are taking. Maybe it is still denial...

#10 waldo

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:21 AM

It is all Miller and Vaneks fault. They are not worth their cap hits, they have consistently underperformed  and cannot carry the  team offensive or defensively .Bring in the the  diaper laden youth.   LOL ...............some fans are simply,................................amazing...

#11 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:19 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 30 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

To me, it does not mean the Sabres are going to be a bottom dweller. I think it means we have about 2-3 years to contend and it ends all this Pegulamania, sole reason garbage. The fact of the matter is they stated that they want this team (as it stands right now) to be tough to play against. I think the size, toughness and leadership qualities are in the pipeline and at the end of next year (when the cap goes up), FA will be a key ingredient to round out this team.

I believe we will see a hard nosed team this year that will be a hell of a lot more respected than the crap they rolled out last year. I still believe Myers is the lynch pin and IF he can get back on track, the team will be a lot further along than expected. Myers, Risto, Weber, Girgs, Ott and Foligno will hold the fort down until the top offensive prospects reach their potential.

Anyhow, I don't seem to think this team is as far away as many others do. Playoffs this year? Don't really care as long as a team identity is formed. If they say the goal is to be tough to play against, make it so (win or lose.)

Okay I'll play.  Just throwing this together quickly, so don't crucify me if everything doesn't make perfect sense, the purpose is to get a picture of what the lineup may look like.

Vanek(?)-Hodgson-Stafford
Ennis-Grigorenko-Leino
Ott-Porter/Larsson-Foligno
Flynn-McCormick/Porter-Kaleta

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Weber-Myers
McNabb-McBain
Ruhwedel

Miller
Enroth

Convince me that team is close to the playoffs, even remotely coherent, and/or has an identity.  And for fun, how about we consider subtracting Vanek and Miller from that?  Yikes.

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 01 July 2013 - 09:20 AM.


#12 CallawaySabres

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 July 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Okay I'll play.  Just throwing this together quickly, so don't crucify me if everything doesn't make perfect sense, the purpose is to get a picture of what the lineup may look like.

Vanek(?)-Hodgson-Stafford
Ennis-Grigorenko-Leino
Ott-Porter/Larsson-Foligno
Flynn-McCormick/Porter-Kaleta

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Weber-Myers
McNabb-McBain
Ruhwedel

Miller
Enroth

Convince me that team is close to the playoffs, even remotely coherent, and/or has an identity.  And for fun, how about we consider subtracting Vanek and Miller from that?  Yikes.

Take out Miller and Vanek while adding Armia, Girgs and Risto. If they are rebuilding, then you add the young guys. I am not looking for this team to make the playoffs this year, the point was to say they will be a hell of a lot tougher to play against.

#13 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:00 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 01 July 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Take out Miller and Vanek while adding Armia, Girgs and Risto. If they are rebuilding, then you add the young guys. I am not looking for this team to make the playoffs this year, the point was to say they will be a hell of a lot tougher to play against.

The youngest team in the NHL with 3 rookie defenders, a bunch of young one-dimensional forwards, and a "rookie" starting goaltender sounds pretty easy to play against to me :P

On a serious note, I'm apparently in the minority, but I want Girgs to spend the entire year in Rochester being the man and playing center in all situations, rather than wing in sheltered minutes like this year (I think Larsson is much more likely to get NHL time than Girgs).  I also want Armia to at least start in Rochester to adapt to the NA game, although I'd still expect him in the NHL at some point next year.  Even adding Ristolainen, that's another rookie on the blue line, although I suppose a Brodin-like rookie year if he's paired with Ehrhoff isn't impossible.

#14 CallawaySabres

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:07 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

The youngest team in the NHL with 3 rookie defenders, a bunch of young one-dimensional forwards, and a "rookie" starting goaltender sounds pretty easy to play against to me :P

On a serious note, I'm apparently in the minority, but I want Girgs to spend the entire year in Rochester being the man and playing center in all situations, rather than wing in sheltered minutes like this year (I think Larsson is much more likely to get NHL time than Girgs).  I also want Armia to at least start in Rochester to adapt to the NA game, although I'd still expect him in the NHL at some point next year.  Even adding Ristolainen, that's another rookie on the blue line, although I suppose a Brodin-like rookie year if he's paired with Ehrhoff isn't impossible.

Well I suppose I am in the minority as I think that while this team will struggle, it is going to be a lot more fun to watch and and really get behind (effort wise).

#15 ThirtyEight

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:09 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

The youngest team in the NHL with 3 rookie defenders, a bunch of young one-dimensional forwards, and a "rookie" starting goaltender sounds pretty easy to play against to me :P

On a serious note, I'm apparently in the minority, but I want Girgs to spend the entire year in Rochester being the man and playing center in all situations, rather than wing in sheltered minutes like this year (I think Larsson is much more likely to get NHL time than Girgs).  I also want Armia to at least start in Rochester to adapt to the NA game, although I'd still expect him in the NHL at some point next year.  Even adding Ristolainen, that's another rookie on the blue line, although I suppose a Brodin-like rookie year if he's paired with Ehrhoff isn't impossible.

I agree about Girgs. Larsson will play in the NHL next season. Armia has a big enough body that i think that will allow him to adapt fairly quickly - also he is a skilled player, so that should help. Ristolainen, Armia, Grigo, Larsson, Pysyk - that is a lot of rookies to integrate into a team.

Ron Rolston is the right coach for this team. I think he could be a gem and i think he will be holding this team together. Either way, we are not making the playoffs

#16 Eleven

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:09 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 01 July 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Well I suppose I am in the minority as I think that while this team will struggle, it is going to be a lot more fun to watch and and really get behind (effort wise).

I'm not looking forward to paying my season ticket bill for this team in this kind of long rebuild.

#17 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 01 July 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Well I suppose I am in the minority as I think that while this team will struggle, it is going to be a lot more fun to watch and and really get behind (effort wise).

And that's where we differ. I don't find a terrible team that tries really hard any more entertaining than a terrible team that has talent but doesn't try hard.  At this point I'm pretty on board with a full rebuild, but I have no delusions about enjoying the product before the rebuild is near complete.

View PostEleven, on 01 July 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

I'm not looking forward to paying my season ticket bill for this team in this kind of long rebuild.

Look on the bright side.  In the past 15 years, your seasons have given you access to a really entertaining team for what, a third of those years?  If the rebuild works (I know it's an if, but bear with me), then the majority, rather than the minority, of the next 15 years it should be pretty awesome to have season tickets.

#18 ThirtyEight

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:16 AM

I just hope we don't trap all the time

#19 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:17 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 01 July 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I just hope we don't trap all the time

Look at the roster.  I don't think Rolston can even dream of being the slightest bit competitive without trapping.  It's going to happen, best to accept it now :)

#20 Eleven

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:18 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 July 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

And that's where we differ. I don't find a terrible team that tries really hard any more entertaining than a terrible team that has talent but doesn't try hard.  At this point I'm pretty on board with a full rebuild, but I have no delusions about enjoying the product before the rebuild is near complete.



Look on the bright side.  In the past 15 years, your seasons have given you access to a really entertaining team for what, a third of those years?  If the rebuild works (I know it's an if, but bear with me), then the majority, rather than the minority, of the next 15 years it should be pretty awesome to have season tickets.

I've only had them since 2009, so half of those years.  Regardless, just to keep my seats, I'm looking at spending a huge amount of money to watch terrible hockey for the next three years.

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Look at the roster.  I don't think Rolston can even dream of being the slightest bit competitive without trapping.  It's going to happen, best to accept it now :)

So boring.

#21 CallawaySabres

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:53 AM

So what happens to these players this year - Hodgson, Myers, Grigorenko and Foligno? Who makes the team out of Grigs, Armia, Gergs, Risto, Larsson and McNabb? Does anybody know what this team will REALLY look like? Why do we have to assume last year is going to be the permanent label on players? Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that could have gone wrong last year did. Vanek and Miller will NOT be traded for draft picks, there will be NHLers coming back to us. They will not replace the production of those two but they will contribute and be a part of this team moving forward.

#22 ThirtyEight

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 01 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Look at the roster.  I don't think Rolston can even dream of being the slightest bit competitive without trapping.  It's going to happen, best to accept it now :)

I grew up watching the mighty ducks films. I have hope we pick the flying V over the trap :P

View PostCallawaySabres, on 01 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

So what happens to these players this year - Hodgson, Myers, Grigorenko and Foligno? Who makes the team out of Grigs, Armia, Gergs, Risto, Larsson and McNabb? Does anybody know what this team will REALLY look like? Why do we have to assume last year is going to be the permanent label on players? Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that could have gone wrong last year did. Vanek and Miller will NOT be traded for draft picks, there will be NHLers coming back to us. They will not replace the production of those two but they will contribute and be a part of this team moving forward.

They should be traded for players 23-25 age range, who will be 'vets' (25-28) by the time some of the younger guys slot in

#23 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 01 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

So what happens to these players this year - Hodgson, Myers, Grigorenko and Foligno? Who makes the team out of Grigs, Armia, Gergs, Risto, Larsson and McNabb? Does anybody know what this team will REALLY look like? Why do we have to assume last year is going to be the permanent label on players? Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that could have gone wrong last year did. Vanek and Miller will NOT be traded for draft picks, there will be NHLers coming back to us. They will not replace the production of those two but they will contribute and be a part of this team moving forward.

While we don't know for sure what the team will look like, we can make a pretty good educated guess that what we have today will be what we have on opening night aside from maybe a couple of players different.  Regier isn't going to suddenly turn over 35% of the roster.  I'm not nearly as convinced as you that Vanek and MIller return legitimate NHL players.  Vanek will probably net 1-2 depth players, a pick and a prospect (in the vicinity of the Gaborik and Nash trades), and the reported asking price for Miller was a pick, high end prospect and mid-level prospect.  If we trade them both, I think we get a max of 2 depth players, and the rest more futures.

#24 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:18 PM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 01 July 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:


Plenty of time for our horrible possession and porous defense to balance out any amazing goal tending stints.  We're getting that #1, baby.

How long do we have to suffer to get McDavid?

#25 qwksndmonster

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:32 PM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 01 July 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

How long do we have to suffer to get McDavid?
Two years.  What's with this kid?  Is he really the next jesus?

#26 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:41 AM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 01 July 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:


Two years.  What's with this kid?  Is he really the next jesus?

Idk. What stats did Jesus have in the NHL?

#27 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:05 AM

View Postqwksndmonster, on 01 July 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:


Two years.  What's with this kid?  Is he really the next jesus?

You know how sometimes a kid will play against guys 2 years older and we're impressed he holds his own? Well McDavid is doing this, except he isn't holding his own, he's the best player.

#28 LGR4GM

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 02 July 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Idk. What stats did Jesus have in the NHL?
Connor McDavid... note he is only 16


#29 Sabre Dance

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

View PostCallawaySabres, on 30 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

To me, it does not mean the Sabres are going to be a bottom dweller. I think it means we have about 2-3 years to contend and it ends all this Pegulamania, sole reason garbage. The fact of the matter is they stated that they want this team (as it stands right now) to be tough to play against. I think the size, toughness and leadership qualities are in the pipeline and at the end of next year (when the cap goes up), FA will be a key ingredient to round out this team.

On the contrary - I think Regier's statement rings very true. I don't see this team making the playoffs at all and to me, that IS another year of suffering.  Oh, and I'm sure teams like the Bruins will be shaking in their skate boots when they see Ennis or Gerbe bearing down on them in a forecheck. So much for size...

View PostCallawaySabres, on 30 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

I believe we will see a hard nosed team this year that will be a hell of a lot more respected than the crap they rolled out last year. I still believe Myers is the lynch pin and IF he can get back on track, the team will be a lot further along than expected. Myers, Risto, Weber, Girgs, Ott and Foligno will hold the fort down until the top offensive prospects reach their potential.

I haven't quite given up on Myers...yet.  If he struggles again next season, it may be time to move him on to another team.  I don't think he is comfortable in the role of defensive savior.  He played much better when he was a rookie and not much was expected of him. Pushing him to be our #1 defenseman may be too much for him to handle...again.

View PostCallawaySabres, on 30 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Anyhow, I don't seem to think this team is as far away as many others do. Playoffs this year? Don't really care as long as a team identity is formed. If they say the goal is to be tough to play against, make it so (win or lose.)

Actually, I think you need to make the playoffs TO form a team identity.  If your team is truly tough to play against, finishing at least 8th should be very attainable. And if you ARE going to miss the playoffs, you may as well finish at the bottom and improve your draft status.

As for the "sole reason garbage", Pegula brought it on himself.  I didn't see anyone twisting his arm when he made those comments.  At the time, I thought his estimation of three years to having a Cup contender was way off base. He may have made the statement out of a combination of enthusiasm and naivete. He thought he could build a Cup contender on the exisitng foundation of the team. Two years later, everyone could see that wasn't working, so now they are tearing it all down and starting from scratch.  If Pegula was thinking ahead, he could have torn the team down right away and we'd now be going into the third year of the rebuild; maybe such a team could make some playoff noise.  But, it seems as though he and Darcy are making this stuff up as they go along. What happens in two years if the team doesn't jell and we are still finishing three points out of a playoff spot? Does he give Darcy another "free pass" and let him try another complete overhaul?  It's tough to demand accountability from your players when your GM is never held accountable....

#30 Meathead

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:01 AM

jesus didnt have great stats but he did have the ability to instantly erase any penalty

#31 SwampD

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:04 AM

View PostMeathead, on 02 July 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

jesus didnt have great stats but he did have the ability to instantly erase any penalty
So he did walk on water,… but it was actually frozen? This changes a lot.

#32 LaFontaineToMogilny

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostMeathead, on 02 July 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

jesus didnt have great stats but he did have the ability to instantly erase any penalty

Not great stats? I thought he was the NHL career leader in saves?

#33 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostLaFontaineToMogilny, on 02 July 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:



Not great stats? I thought he was the NHL career leader in saves?

He's pretty much Mario...

Everyone talked about him for years before he did his best work....He has his own line of wine....He was at the top of his game and had a horrible setback in health then disappeared for awhile....only to come back and do it again. Then, only when things looked their worst and people had lost faith, he comes back YET AGAIN and saves the community from the antichrist (Bettman).....and leads them to glory from the throne.

#34 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:48 PM

.

Attached Files



#35 LaFontaineToMogilny

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 09:34 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 02 July 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

.

I love the internet!

#36 ExWNYer

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:57 AM

View PostMeathead, on 02 July 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

jesus didnt have great stats but he did have the ability to instantly erase any penalty

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 02 July 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

.Posted Image
And he had one helluva playoff beard!

Edited by ExWNYer, 04 July 2013 - 01:58 AM.


#37 .55.

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:10 AM

I heard he was kinda soft--the guy takes one measly cross check and he's suddenly out of commission for three days.

#38 kishoph

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:53 AM

View PostLGR4GM, on 02 July 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Connor McDavid... note he is only 16



Sure all those great move and goals scored look good on the hi-lites, but can he back check and play defense ? ;)

#39 superdave

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:37 AM

Yes, paying for season tickets, year after year to watch mediocre to bad hockey gets old.  I know from first hand experience.  If I knew it was going to be bad, I'd rather see what the younger players can do and find out what the future looked like.

#40 weave

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

View Postsuperdave, on 04 July 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Yes, paying for season tickets, year after year to watch mediocre to bad hockey gets old.  I know from first hand experience.  If I knew it was going to be bad, I'd rather see what the younger players can do and find out what the future looked like.

The point of view of an outsider has been interesting.   Alot of the convo on this site is whether the rebuild here is thorough enough.  It sounds like from an outsiders perspective (well, N=1 anyway) that it is looked at around the league as a very thorough rebuild.

I am not excited about watching a team this season that is probably going to be about as bad as a Sabres team has been historically.  But I am really juiced to see a bunch of kids with tons of potential to play.