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Indulge one of my hockey dreams for a sec


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#1 sabres1970

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:07 PM

Seriously, what would it take to get Patrick Kane? After this season he'll have two years remaining on his contract. In two years he'll be in the prime of his career and will definitely be looking for a huge contract that he'll end his career with.

Kane obviously loves his hometown, being that he still has a house here. What would we have to trade in order to get him maybe during the last year of his contract? Or do you think Chicago, with so many other players they'll surely need to resign in coming years, will just let him walk in the summer of 2016?

#2 d4rksabre

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

Patrick Kane is an embarrassment.

#3 DeLuca1967

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:18 PM

View Postsabres1970, on 16 June 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Seriously, what would it take to get Patrick Kane? After this season he'll have two years remaining on his contract. In two years he'll be in the prime of his career and will definitely be looking for a huge contract that he'll end his career with.

Kane obviously loves his hometown, being that he still has a house here. What would we have to trade in order to get him maybe during the last year of his contract? Or do you think Chicago, with so many other players they'll surely need to resign in coming years, will just let him walk in the summer of 2016?
Kane and Toews are Chicago's version of Crosby and Malkin, neither are going anywhere. IMO, Kane to the Sabres would be the worst thing that could ever happen to Kane. The kid has had some maturity issues in the past and the pressure and distractions of playing in WNY could really hurt the kid.

#4 inkman

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

Patrick Kane would be vilified and skewered in Buffalo.  His sissy boy pussified pretty boy act would wear this instantly.  I find the whole concept of wanting to bring him to Buffalo completely laughable.  What about it seems like a good idea?

#5 wyldnwoody44

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:24 PM

I think  Kane would turn into Roy version 2.0, maybe with more talent. But I have many other choices for local boys a la Callahan that I would take before Kane

#6 thesportsbuff

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:13 PM

View Postinkman, on 16 June 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Patrick Kane would be vilified and skewered in Buffalo.  His sissy boy pussified pretty boy act would wear this instantly.  I find the whole concept of wanting to bring him to Buffalo completely laughable.  What about it seems like a good idea?

The having an elite player with (hopefully) multiple stanley cups to his name on the team part. I don't understand the negativity around the idea, but it does not surprise me that Sabres fans would automatically assume that adding one of the best players in the league to the team would result in disaster.

I don't think it will ever happen, unless maybe when he's 34-35 and looking to latch on to a team for one more season, but I would welcome Kane here.

#7 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:59 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 16 June 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

The having an elite player with (hopefully) multiple stanley cups to his name on the team part. I don't understand the negativity around the idea, but it does not surprise me that Sabres fans would automatically assume that adding one of the best players in the league to the team would result in disaster.

I don't think it will ever happen, unless maybe when he's 34-35 and looking to latch on to a team for one more season, but I would welcome Kane here.

...OR, some of us are familiar with the person and the family.  Kane "coming home" to play for the Sabres would be an unmitigated disaster, and it has nothing to do with his abilities on the ice.

#8 Robviously

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:10 PM

My guess is that if the Sabres are ever going to be a good team again, it'll be from developing their own players.

#9 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:21 PM

We can't make this team faster, we need a full roster of size and grit. 6'4" 230#'ers.

#10 SwampD

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 16 June 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

...OR, some of us are familiar with the person and the family.  Kane "coming home" to play for the Sabres would be an unmitigated disaster, and it has nothing to do with his abilities on the ice.
Unless you know him or his family personally, then you are not "familiar" with them.

I would welcome him to the team. I'm not embarrassed by him or think he has maturity issues.

The only reason him coming here might be a disaster is that he could party and give a half-assed effort and still be good enough to get the Sabres to ninth place while leading the team in scoring,… and mgmt would probably be fine with that.

We're looking for scoring in a RW, not a deacon at our church. :wallbash:

#11 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:37 PM

View PostSwampD, on 16 June 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Unless you know him or his family personally, then you are not "familiar" with them.

Directly, no.  But a friend who I trust knows him and his family.  Good enough?

#12 SwampD

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:58 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 16 June 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Directly, no.  But a friend who I trust knows him and his family.  Good enough?
A little, i guess, but there's a reason that hearsay is inadmissible in court.

I still see the bigger problem as being that the Sabres are an organization that can only get players that fit just right, otherwise they might overturn our precious applecart of mediocrity. Again, the stated goal was the Cup, yet without even the playoffs, Darcy remains. Until mgmt demands the most out of this team, we're going to continue to see fans justifying why a great player wouldn't work here and those same fans are going to continue to get the very team they deserve.

#13 LGR4GM

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:01 PM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 16 June 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Directly, no.  But a friend who I trust knows him and his family.  Good enough?
I know quite a few people in South Buffalo and some who have known and still know Patty. His rep of being a party guy is well deserved and Chicago's locker room is strong enough to deal with it.  The Sabres locker room is not. Especially when he would be the most talented player on the team.  I assume if we get Kane we lose Vanek cuz darcy is to incompetent to keep both.

#14 d4rksabre

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:33 PM

Maybe John Scott could be the Doug Glatt to his Xavier Leflamme. They could both phone home together.

#15 PASabreFan

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:52 PM

View PostSwampD, on 16 June 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

A little, i guess, but there's a reason that hearsay is inadmissible in court.

I still see the bigger problem as being that the Sabres are an organization that can only get players that fit just right, otherwise they might overturn our precious applecart of mediocrity. Again, the stated goal was the Cup, yet without even the playoffs, Darcy remains. Until mgmt demands the most out of this team, we're going to continue to see fans justifying why a great player wouldn't work here and those same fans are going to continue to get the very team they deserve.

Bringin' the wood. Nice.

#16 Tankalicious

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:26 PM

So basically: we would rather have a ###### team with talentless player than a guy that drinks from a lot of Cups.

We've all seen the Chris Herren story... but I don't think this is on that level.

#17 d4rksabre

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:27 PM

View PostDStebb, on 16 June 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

So basically: we would rather have a ###### team with talentless player than a guy that drinks from a lot of Cups.

We've all seen the Chris Herren story... but I don't think this is on that level.

I want a team full of men. Pat Kane is a boy.

#18 ThirtyEight

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostDStebb, on 16 June 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

So basically: we would rather have a ###### team with talentless player than a guy that drinks from a lot of Cups.

We've all seen the Chris Herren story... but I don't think this is on that level.

Kane works because of Toews is the Yin to his Yang. That team is held together because of the professionalism and all roundedness of Toews. This moves Kane to be the more peripheral one dimensional star who puts up the points and does what he likes. If we get Kane, firstly we trade Grigo, Armia, Ennis, Coho + to get him (a.k.a. a king's ransom) and then Kane becomes the centre point of the team. If Kane as the go to guy is unprofessional then it will undoubtedly flow through the team. Why should a 3rd line checker put his career at risk to block a shot if Kane won't even turn up non-hungover to practice?

People want Kane because he is from the city - I have said it before, maybe it is a cultural thing because England is so small, but I don't understand that mentality. Ask what the price for Kane would be and then ask what the price of Toews would be - it will be night and day for a reason

#19 Tankalicious

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 16 June 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Kane works because of Toews is the Yin to his Yang. That team is held together because of the professionalism and all roundedness of Toews. This moves Kane to be the more peripheral one dimensional star who puts up the points and does what he likes. If we get Kane, firstly we trade Grigo, Armia, Ennis, Coho + to get him (a.k.a. a king's ransom) and then Kane becomes the centre point of the team. If Kane as the go to guy is unprofessional then it will undoubtedly flow through the team. Why should a 3rd line checker put his career at risk to block a shot if Kane won't even turn up non-hungover to practice?

People want Kane because he is from the city - I have said it before, maybe it is a cultural thing because England is so small, but I don't understand that mentality. Ask what the price for Kane would be and then ask what the price of Toews would be - it will be night and day for a reason

In 22 games without Toews at the end of the 2011-12 season, Kane: 10 goals, 17 assists (27 points in 22 games). Yea, Yin and Yang.

I don't see Kane blowing his entire career away just because he's the center of attention...

Edited by DStebb, 16 June 2013 - 08:24 PM.


#20 inkman

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

View PostDStebb, on 16 June 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

So basically: we would rather have a ###### team with talentless player than a guy that drinks from a lot of Cups.
When did Patrick Kane become Mark Messier?  I'm all for upgrading the talent level on this team. It just needs to be the right kind of talent.  Kane in Buffalo would be no different than Pominville, Vanek or Roy.  Great players if they aren't the focal point of your team, not guys you hitch your wagon to.

#21 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:42 AM

View PostDStebb, on 16 June 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

In 22 games without Toews at the end of the 2011-12 season, Kane: 10 goals, 17 assists (27 points in 22 games). Yea, Yin and Yang.

I don't see Kane blowing his entire career away just because he's the center of attention...

I wasn't aware Toews had died for those 22 games so Kane was the lone figure in the locker room. My mistake. I now respect Kane for being able to hold that team together during such a period of turmoil. It isn't about him blowing his career away at all - he will probably still be a ppg player, it is about the move robbing Buffalo of all depth/young players and then having our central guy as a selfish partying player. In other words Kane will be fine, the other 19 players will suffer

Edited by ThirtyEight, 17 June 2013 - 06:43 AM.


#22 SwampD

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:50 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 17 June 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I wasn't aware Toews had died for those 22 games so Kane was the lone figure in the locker room. My mistake. I now respect Kane for being able to hold that team together during such a period of turmoil. It isn't about him blowing his career away at all - he will probably still be a ppg player, it is about the move robbing Buffalo of all depth/young players and then having our central guy as a selfish partying player. In other words Kane will be fine, the other 19 players will suffer
Lines like this absolutely drive me f'n crazy (like when Eleven talks about the roster)! Who gives a flip about depth and youth if you have no real talent?!?!

The last guy that everyone here talked themselves out of wanting has seen a SCFs since then, but good thing we preserved our precious depth (if you can even call it that) and youth. I wonder, now that people have seen our future of no playoffs, if they wouldn't have mortgaged it gladly to get Kovy.

Also, it's not like I would stop at Kane. Any real Stanley Cup contender (not that imaginary one in Darcy's head) needs more than just a Kane or Kovy to win.

I don't care if someone has real, hockey reasons why they don't want Kane on the Sabres. But to use wanting to preserve depth or youth or not wanting trade away the future is simply f'n ridiculous! We're already talking about a 3 to 5 year rebuild as it is!

Enjoy that John Scott re-signing. He's the bread an circus until we get some real talent on this team.

#23 That Aud Smell

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:12 AM

View PostThirtyEight, on 16 June 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

and then Kane becomes the centre point of the team.

i like kane a lot and don't put a lot of stock in the maturity/attitude stuff. he's a gamer - a SC winner (and a SC goal-clinching scorer, not for nothin'). even so, what 38 said above is the rub: a team should be rebuilt from the center position and out. until we have centers to pair with kane (we may have 1 candidate in hodgson), it's pointless to think about adding kane to the team.

#24 LGR4GM

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:23 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 17 June 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

i like kane a lot and don't put a lot of stock in the maturity/attitude stuff. he's a gamer - a SC winner (and a SC goal-clinching scorer, not for nothin'). even so, what 38 said above is the rub: a team should be rebuilt from the center position and out. until we have centers to pair with kane (we may have 1 candidate in hodgson), it's pointless to think about adding kane to the team.
Also how long has Kane and Toews played for the Hawks?  You know developing Chemistry and Trust?

#25 DeLuca1967

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 08:33 AM

View PostSwampD, on 17 June 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Lines like this absolutely drive me f'n crazy (like when Eleven talks about the roster)! Who gives a flip about depth and youth if you have no real talent?!?!

The last guy that everyone here talked themselves out of wanting has seen a SCFs since then, but good thing we preserved our precious depth (if you can even call it that) and youth. I wonder, now that people have seen our future of no playoffs, if they wouldn't have mortgaged it gladly to get Kovy.

Also, it's not like I would stop at Kane. Any real Stanley Cup contender (not that imaginary one in Darcy's head) needs more than just a Kane or Kovy to win.

I don't care if someone has real, hockey reasons why they don't want Kane on the Sabres. But to use wanting to preserve depth or youth or not wanting trade away the future is simply f'n ridiculous! We're already talking about a 3 to 5 year rebuild as it is!

Enjoy that John Scott re-signing. He's the bread an circus until we get some real talent on this team.
For shits and giggles lets pretend that a deal is possible for Patrick Kane. With Kane the direction of the franchise changes. You don't bring in Kane then trade Vanek and Miller. You bring in Kane to play with Vanek and you burn some of these 1st and 2nd round picks to lure a #1 center away from somebody. It is am extremely aggressive path that will also include overspending to bring in quality free-agents. It's not a path the current regime can be successful with, IMO.

#26 SwampD

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 09:00 AM

View Postdeluca67, on 17 June 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

For shits and giggles lets pretend that a deal is possible for Patrick Kane. With Kane the direction of the franchise changes. You don't bring in Kane then trade Vanek and Miller. You bring in Kane to play with Vanek and you burn some of these 1st and 2nd round picks to lure a #1 center away from somebody. It is am extremely aggressive path that will also include overspending to bring in quality free-agents. It's not a path the current regime can be successful with, IMO.
Again, I'm not sure if they should even try. My point is that Sabres fans have been programmed to find all the reasons why a player shouldn't come here, first.  Rarely do they have anything to do with actual talent or on ice issues. An organization should be strong enough to make all those excuses irrelevant. Somehow, a "locker room cancer" was part of a Cup winning team last year.

It's hockey, not sitting around the lunch table in junior high.

#27 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:15 PM

View PostSwampD, on 17 June 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Again, I'm not sure if they should even try. My point is that Sabres fans have been programmed to find all the reasons why a player shouldn't come here, first.  Rarely do they have anything to do with actual talent or on ice issues. An organization should be strong enough to make all those excuses irrelevant. Somehow, a "locker room cancer" was part of a Cup winning team last year.

It's hockey, not sitting around the lunch table in junior high.

I would rather build a contender and be a serious team for a long time than trade every young guy we have to try and win now and then in 3 years be in the toilet for the next 8 years whilst we have to redraft and develop young guys with reasonable contracts.

I don't really see the point of getting Kane, he is a one dimensional winger who puts up a ppg. The amount it would take to get him would make the trade not worthwhile. Comparing trading for a UFA-to-be (Kovy) and trading for a a young guy with 2 seasons still on contract (Kane) is ridiculous. Look at what Pominville brought in compared to what Kovy brought in. I like what Minny did - they had a deep pool of prospects and used it to get real talent. We can't do that - tell me how many scoring wingers we have in our prospects? The answer is one - Armia. We have one of the weakest pools in the league in my opinion

#28 Tankalicious

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 17 June 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I wasn't aware Toews had died for those 22 games so Kane was the lone figure in the locker room. My mistake. I now respect Kane for being able to hold that team together during such a period of turmoil. It isn't about him blowing his career away at all - he will probably still be a ppg player, it is about the move robbing Buffalo of all depth/young players and then having our central guy as a selfish partying player. In other words Kane will be fine, the other 19 players will suffer

This idea that he's a selfish player and person is ridiculous. He's not the only big-time player that parties big in professional sports. Doesn't make him selfish if he parties in the offseason. Selfish is partying in the regular season/playoffs (a la JR Smith).

#29 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:49 PM

View PostDStebb, on 17 June 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

This idea that he's a selfish player and person is ridiculous. He's not the only big-time player that parties big in professional sports. Doesn't make him selfish if he parties in the offseason. Selfish is partying in the regular season/playoffs (a la JR Smith).

http://www.chicagono...n-camera-again/

#30 Tankalicious

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 17 June 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:


Alright. A single incident. If social media was popular throughout the history of sports, there'd be MANY MANY great players that would've been caught in things such as this. He missed a couple practices. Missing those practices will probably make him a ###### player.

I don't give a ###### what players do off the ice (within reason) as long as it doesn't get in the way of their on-the-ice and in the locker room performance. When he gets caught drinking the day of/before a game/playoff game, I'll be worried. Otherwise, this is all ludicrous.

#31 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:36 PM

View PostDStebb, on 17 June 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Alright. A single incident. If social media was popular throughout the history of sports, there'd be MANY MANY great players that would've been caught in things such as this. He missed a couple practices. Missing those practices will probably make him a ###### player.

I don't give a ###### what players do off the ice (within reason) as long as it doesn't get in the way of their on-the-ice and in the locker room performance. When he gets caught drinking the day of/before a game/playoff game, I'll be worried. Otherwise, this is all ludicrous.

1) Yes that is true, but with sport getting tougher and tougher every year there is less room for players to have liberties
2) Once again you have failed basic comprehension skills so i'll say it again - it isn't about Kane, Kane will be fine, it is about setting an example in the locker room, making everyone accountable for their actions.
3) I guess we just agree to disagree, I want a professional team that keeps everyone accountable and makes sure every member, no matter how talented works their hardest. You don't want that

#32 Tankalicious

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:41 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 17 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

1) Yes that is true, but with sport getting tougher and tougher every year there is less room for players to have liberties
2) Once again you have failed basic comprehension skills so i'll say it again - it isn't about Kane, Kane will be fine, it is about setting an example in the locker room, making everyone accountable for their actions.
3) I guess we just agree to disagree, I want a professional team that keeps everyone accountable and makes sure every member, no matter how talented works their hardest. You don't want that

Pretty ignorant assumption on your part. Kane is clearly a hard worker. You don't just magically wake up and be in great shape while being able to tear up the opposition. Until his game shows signs of dwindling or those around him show signs of trouble with him, I don't care. There are plenty of notorious drinkers that won on the highest levels.

#33 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostDStebb, on 17 June 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

Pretty ignorant assumption on your part. Kane is clearly a hard worker. You don't just magically wake up and be in great shape while being able to tear up the opposition. Until his game shows signs of dwindling or those around him show signs of trouble with him, I don't care. There are plenty of notorious drinkers that won on the highest levels.

Since the Crosby era began, could you please name a player who won the cup, was a key member of the team and was a (rumoured) heavy drinker?

Kane is a good player, a very talented one, but that doesn't mean he is a 'hard worker'. To clarify, every professional player is a hard worker, you can't not be. But they are not all equal. Kane is talented but i have never heard anything good about his work ethic (c.f. Crosby and Toews).

If i am trading my future for a star, i want a star who brings more than just on-ice. Leino said our locker room was ######, Pommers said our locker room was ######, Regehr said our locker room was ######. Kane isn't a player who would change that in anyway

#34 SwampD

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 17 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

1) Yes that is true, but with sport getting tougher and tougher every year there is less room for players to have liberties
2) Once again you have failed basic comprehension skills so i'll say it again - it isn't about Kane, Kane will be fine, it is about setting an example in the locker room, making everyone accountable for their actions.
3) I guess we just agree to disagree, I want a professional team that keeps everyone accountable and makes sure every member, no matter how talented works their hardest. You don't want that
SC series winning goal. WCFs series winning goal. That's the only example I need him to set for his team.

Gimme a bunch of d-bags who win over a bunch of puritans that lock up 9th place any day.

#35 ThirtyEight

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostSwampD, on 17 June 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

SC series winning goal. WCFs series winning goal. That's the only example I need him to set for his team.

Gimme a bunch of d-bags who win over a bunch of puritans that lock up 9th place any day.

That's fine. He is good on the ice, if that's all you want out of your star players then yes he is fine. But for the cost i would want more. Also i would like him to be better defensively. I don't want puritans or Kane. I want Toews

Also, in a league that rewards its star players with captaincy, i think it is telling Kane doesn't even wear an A

#36 sizzlemeister

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 02:45 PM

On the Hawks, nearly every player is a threat, they can't just focus on Kane, so that gives him the space and time to play his game, which is slick and clever.  

On the Sabres, Kane would be as effective as Derek Roy would be now.  I assume we're all watching the Playoffs, and have watched Chicago prior to the SCFs...Kane is a soft player.  He would be turned into hamburger on the ice in a Sabres uniform, because he'd be the most "talented" dude out there and EVERY player on the opposition would crush him endlessly.

Kane works where he's at because the Hawks management understand how to assemble a TEAM, not just collect individuals with intriguing stats.  Buffalo has a long way to go before being able to host a player like Kane.



#37 sabres1970

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:30 PM

Man there's really no love for the hometown talent here. Why couldn't he be effective as a Sabre? Suppose Hodgson is as good as Darcy thinks he can be, and last season surely didn't disprove that, why couldn't he and Kane become a lesser version of Toews and Kane? Is that such a crazy thought?

#38 d4rksabre

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:33 PM

View Postsabres1970, on 17 June 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Man there's really no love for the hometown talent here. Why couldn't he be effective as a Sabre? Suppose Hodgson is as good as Darcy thinks he can be, and last season surely didn't disprove that, why couldn't he and Kane become a lesser version of Toews and Kane? Is that such a crazy thought?

He doesn't give a crap about Buffalo, why are we supposed to like him?

#39 LaFontaineToMogilny

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:07 PM

View Postsabres1970, on 17 June 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Man there's really no love for the hometown talent here. Why couldn't he be effective as a Sabre? Suppose Hodgson is as good as Darcy thinks he can be, and last season surely didn't disprove that, why couldn't he and Kane become a lesser version of Toews and Kane? Is that such a crazy thought?

It's not crazy, and if Vanek stays on board we'd have a pretty solid first line. Problem is we still have problems with the supporting cast.

That said, we need to bring in high level elite talent, and it would be hard to argue that Kane doesn't represent exactly that. That said again, it's a pipe dream with no real grounds in reality.

#40 d4rksabre

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostLaFontaineToMogilny, on 17 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:



It's not crazy, and if Vanek stays on board we'd have a pretty solid first line. Problem is we still have problems with the supporting cast.

That said, we need to bring in high level elite talent, and it would be hard to argue that Kane doesn't represent exactly that. That said again, it's a pipe dream with no real grounds in reality.

Plus at this point I prefer building through the draft and farm system. Create a new core and let it develop into something we can believe in. Let the young guys learn how to be men together without the faux mullet. Plugging Kane into three lineup doesn't do that and likely sets the team back if they continue to suck.

Give me talent that is cultivated and formed into a winner. Not continued cannibalization.