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Lindy Ruff watch


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#1 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:16 AM

Confirmed that the Rangers have asked the Sabres if they can speak with Lindy.

Makes sense.

#2 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

???

Why would they need permission?

#3 sizzlemeister

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

I think he still gets paid under the old contract.

#4 X. Benedict

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 10 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

???

Why would they need permission?

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 10 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

???

Why would they need permission?

Lindy still gets a pile of moolah, don't he?

#5 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:31 AM

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 10 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

???

Why would they need permission?

He was never actually "fired".  So he's still under contract.

#6 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

i am with the unwashed masses on not understanding why they've asked for the sabres' permission to speak with a coach whom they fired. it's not like they transitioned him into another role with the franchise -- he was separated -- fired -- "hit the bricks" and all that.

View PostSpndnchz, on 10 June 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

He was never actually "fired".  So he's still under contract.

:blink:

#7 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

i am with the unwashed masses on not understanding why they've asked for the sabres' permission to speak with a coach whom they fired. it's not like they transitioned him into another role with the franchise -- he was separated -- fired -- "hit the bricks" and all that.



:blink:

He was "relieved of duties".

#8 X. Benedict

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

i am with the unwashed masses on not understanding why they've asked for the sabres' permission to speak with a coach whom they fired. it's not like they transitioned him into another role with the franchise -- he was separated -- fired -- "hit the bricks" and all that.



:blink:

Nothing more than professional courtesy, I suppose. He still has a contract with Buffalo.

#9 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

So, strictly speaking, he's still employed by the club?

I will tell you: That is a wrinkle that almost no one has mentioned in the wake of the weepy press conference back in February.

I went back to the teams's press release on it, and there it is:


    RUFF RELIEVED OF DUTIES

Wednesday, 02.20.2013 / 3:26 PM / News





Posted ImageComment




Posted ImagePrint



Buffalo Sabres General Manager Darcy Regier announced on Wednesday afternoon that Lindy Ruff has been relieved of his duties as head coach of the Buffalo Sabres. More details will be made available at a press conference this afternoon.

Edited by That Aud Smell, 10 June 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#10 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:50 AM

@KatieStrangESPN: #NYR Can confirm that Rangers sought and have received permission from BUF to speak with Lindy Ruff #Sabres

#11 ThirtyEight

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:14 PM

If the Sabres wanted they could make sure Ruff doesn't do anything with his life for the next 5 years (or however long remains) because he is employed by them. I hope Ruff gets NYR - would be a good fit

#12 Claude_Verret

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 10 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

If the Sabres wanted they could make sure Ruff doesn't do anything with his life for the next 5 years (or however long remains) because he is employed by them. I hope Ruff gets NYR - would be a good fit

Agreed. I've always maintained that Ruff is an upper echelon NHL coach who will likely get his Cup elsewhere, it just wasn't in the cards in Buffalo.

#13 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:25 PM

View PostX. Benedict, on 10 June 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Nothing more than professional courtesy, I suppose. He still has a contract with Buffalo.

Same thing for Vigneault.  The Rangers asked and received permission from Vancouver to speak with him.

#14 Jsixspd

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

So, strictly speaking, he's still employed by the club?

I will tell you: That is a wrinkle that almost no one has mentioned in the wake of the weepy press conference back in February.

I went back to the teams's press release on it, and there it is:


RUFF RELIEVED OF DUTIES

Wednesday, 02.20.2013 / 3:26 PM / News




Posted ImageComment



Posted ImagePrint



Buffalo Sabres General Manager Darcy Regier announced on Wednesday afternoon that Lindy Ruff has been relieved of his duties as head coach of the Buffalo Sabres. More details will be made available at a press conference this afternoon.


Wow, I wished MY company would 'punish' me with a 4 month paid vacation while I looked for gainful employment elsewhere.    poor, poor Lindy......  how he must be suffering!   :lol:

#15 PASabreFan

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:27 PM

Attached File  500px-doomsday_clock.png   12.86K   18 downloads

#16 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:33 PM

View PostJsixspd, on 10 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Wow, I wished MY company would 'punish' me with a 4 month paid vacation while I looked for gainful employment elsewhere. poor, poor Lindy......  how he must be suffering!   :lol:

I am intrigued in this connection by the decision to relieve the employee of his duties, to continue to pay him to do nothing.

When it comes to so-called key employees, "doing nothing" can be of great value to the employer because, at least in theory, it can mean the employee won't be doing anything for a competitor. Not unless you say it's okay.

I don't get the sense that this is how these transitions generally go down -- I mean, Chan Gailey wasn't relieved of his duties. That guy was fired.

#17 PASabreFan

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:45 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I am intrigued in this connection by the decision to relieve the employee of his duties, to continue to pay him to do nothing.

When it comes to so-called key employees, "doing nothing" can be of great value to the employer because, at least in theory, it can mean the employee won't be doing anything for a competitor. Not unless you say it's okay.

I don't get the sense that this is how these transitions generally go down -- I mean, Chan Gailey wasn't relieved of his duties. That guy was fired.

Right. If the Sabres own Lindy's ass, and Lindy's ass is elite, and you're trying to win the Cup (OK, make the playoffs), then Lindy's ass stays in Clarence for the rest of his contract.

I think we're just missing the obvious contractual explanatory language. Maybe TaroT will saunter along shortly. TaroT, blue and gold courtesy phone.

#18 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:02 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 10 June 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Right. If the Sabres own Lindy's ass, and Lindy's ass is elite, and you're trying to win the Cup (OK, make the playoffs), then Lindy's ass stays in Clarence for the rest of his contract.

That's not what I was suggesting, necessarily. My interest had much less to do with Lindy (and whether his excellence or lack thereof warranted the maneuver) and more to do with the move in the abstract.

Among other things, I wonder whether the team wanted its plans/ideas for the upcoming draft to remain confidential.

View PostPASabreFan, on 10 June 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I think we're just missing the obvious contractual explanatory language. Maybe TaroT will saunter along shortly. TaroT, blue and gold courtesy phone.

What might that be? From an employee's standpoint, it'd be a breach of the agreement if the team were to remove you from the position you were hired to perform -- material change in terms or conditions. Could the agreement have granted the franchise the right to relieve Lindy of his duties as coach without breaching the agreement? I guess. But, if so, that'd've been a very employer-friendly agreement -- basically, "Lindy, you're our b!tch."

My guess is that the terms of the separation were negotiated and reduced to a separate agreement -- Lindy probably got a few sweeteners to retain his duties of loyalty to the Sabres for a specified period of time, the Sabres probably gave him some assurances that they would not unreasonably withhold consent to his pursuing other opportunities, and such.

Edited by That Aud Smell, 10 June 2013 - 03:02 PM.


#19 nobody

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:33 PM

Many NHL head coaches have guaranteed contracts.  So just because they have been relieved of their duties does not mean they are relieved of their paycheck.

#20 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

View Postnobody, on 10 June 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Many NHL head coaches have guaranteed contracts.  So just because they have been relieved of their duties does not mean they are relieved of their paycheck.

You raise an interesting point, but I'm not sure it's operative. The issue with guaranteed contracts (which are the norm in employment contracts -- i.e., if I agree to employ you for 2 years but then decide in month 5 that it's not working out and fire you without cause, then you're entitled to be paid for the balance of the deal) comes when teams actually terminate, separate the coach -- the coach is an ex-employee who's entitled to collect on the remainder of his contract (because the employer breached it by firing him). But that's not what happened with Ruff apparently -- he never became an ex-employee, by the sounds of it.

Edited by That Aud Smell, 10 June 2013 - 03:42 PM.


#21 Kristian

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 10 June 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Same thing for Vigneault.  The Rangers asked and received permission from Vancouver to speak with him.

Pretty standard stuff in all of pro sports, I should think.

A coach or manager signs a contract, that contract is still in effect if the club decides he's not doing a good enough job.

Same as Ruff wouldn't have been able to leave mid-season, if say Detroit had decided they needed a new coach, and wanted Lindy.

#22 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:10 PM

View PostKristian, on 10 June 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Pretty standard stuff in all of pro sports, I should think.

A coach or manager signs a contract, that contract is still in effect if the club decides he's not doing a good enough job.

Same as Ruff wouldn't have been able to leave mid-season, if say Detroit had decided they needed a new coach, and wanted Lindy.

This may be angels on the head of a pin stuff, but the contract is not in effect if the club terminates the coach -- that's breaching the contract and ending the contractual relationship. The coach may (and often will) still collect his salary, but that's because he was fired without cause (I mean "for cause" in a legal sense, not from a fan base's perspective) -- that's the team "eating" the salary in order to move on in a different direction.

And as for Lindy leaving mid-season to join another team ... there may or may not have been a legal impediment to his choosing to do so. I mean, a coach could quit 25 games into a season and then try to sign on with another team. The team that lost the coach certainly wouldn't be paying any more salary, that's for sure. I can't recall this ever having happened, though. The team that lost the coach could, in theory, sue to enjoin the coach from taking another job. I should also think that these kinds of contract generally contain certain provisions that if the coach were to resign during a pending season then the coach agrees not to take another position with an NHL club until that season is over.

#23 Kristian

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

This may be angels on the head of a pin stuff, but the contract is not in effect if the club terminates the coach -- that's breaching the contract and ending the contractual relationship. The coach may (and often will) still collect his salary, but that's because he was fired without cause (I mean "for cause" in a legal sense, not from a fan base's perspective) -- that's the team "eating" the salary in order to move on in a different direction.

And as for Lindy leaving mid-season to join another team ... there may or may not have been a legal impediment to his choosing to do so. I mean, a coach could quit 25 games into a season and then try to sign on with another team. The team that lost the coach certainly wouldn't be paying any more salary, that's for sure. I can't recall this ever having happened, though. The team that lost the coach could, in theory, sue to enjoin the coach from taking another job. I should also think that these kinds of contract generally contain certain provisions that if the coach were to resign during a pending season then the coach agrees not to take another position with an NHL club until that season is over.

Which is why nobody is ever truly fired or terminated, but rather relieved of duties, just like Lindy. But you're absolutely right, I should think.

I don't think I ever saw this happen either, unless the coach is a big name coach, coaching a rather small team.

In 2000, Englands current national soccer manager, Roy Hodgson, left Danish side FC Copenhagen to coach Udinese in Italy instead. I'm pretty sure he had a year left on his original deal when he did, so he must've had some sort of backdoor written into his deal, but this is only incident I can remember.

Edited by Kristian, 10 June 2013 - 04:17 PM.


#24 That Aud Smell

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostKristian, on 10 June 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Which is why nobody is ever truly fired or terminated, but rather relieved of duties, just like Lindy.

This was a question I had: Is this in fact how it always goes down? Don't teams often fire coaches as well? Or is this a post-season/in-season distinction? I go back to a point I made earlier: Teams aren't necessarily within their contractual rights to tell a coach, "You're done behind the bench, but you're still under contract, so go home and relax." In theory, a coach should be able to respond, "Hell no -- you breached our agreement -- I'm outta here."

#25 drnkirishone

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:



This was a question I had: Is this in fact how it always goes down? Don't teams often fire coaches as well? Or is this a post-season/in-season distinction? I go back to a point I made earlier: Teams aren't necessarily within their contractual rights to tell a coach, "You're done behind the bench, but you're still under contract, so go home and relax." In theory, a coach should be able to respond, "Hell no -- you breached our agreement -- I'm outta here."
that would depend on the langauge of the contract i would guess. The ole moved to a advisory position goes as far back as i can remember (20-30 years).

#26 Kristian

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 10 June 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

This was a question I had: Is this in fact how it always goes down? Don't teams often fire coaches as well? Or is this a post-season/in-season distinction? I go back to a point I made earlier: Teams aren't necessarily within their contractual rights to tell a coach, "You're done behind the bench, but you're still under contract, so go home and relax." In theory, a coach should be able to respond, "Hell no -- you breached our agreement -- I'm outta here."

I would think the club would close to automatically release the coach to talk elsewhere should he want to, so I don't think a fired coach would actually need to tell the club to go stuff themselves, should he want to sign elsewhere, after being relieved?

#27 LabattBlue

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostPASabreFan, on 10 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

LOL

#28 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:26 PM

Lindy was speaking at the Clarence Chamber of Commerce Golf Outing tonight.  Rangers are out in California so if he has spoken with them it's been by phone (or Skype lol).

#29 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:29 PM

Best Tyler Ennis avatar ever.

#30 weave

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 10 June 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Best Tyler Ennis avatar ever.

:worthy:

#31 Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 10 June 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Best Tyler Ennis avatar ever.

I was thinking it was from the cover of an Emerson Lake and Palmer album.........

Here it is....

Posted Image

Edited by Ghost of Dwight Drane, 10 June 2013 - 07:42 PM.


#32 Spndnchz

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 10 June 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Best Tyler Ennis avatar ever.

Holy crap it does! Kill my photographer!

Hello NSA.

#33 IKnowPhysics

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostSpndnchz, on 10 June 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Holy crap it does! Kill my photographer!

Flowing blonde locks.  Mouth open.  Everything.

#34 bunomatic

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:57 PM

I've seen enough of him.

#35 Tank

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 10 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

If the Sabres wanted they could make sure Ruff doesn't do anything with his life for the next 5 years (or however long remains) because he is employed by them. I hope Ruff gets NYR - would be a good fit

Kind of. If they really tried to do it, it would turn into a legal matter and the Sabres would lose.

#36 Jsixspd

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

It would be awesome if Ruff became coach of the Rangers,  they go all soft, and then the Sabres give 'em a royal shellacking when they play.

#37 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:31 PM

View PostJsixspd, on 10 June 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

It would be awesome if Ruff became coach of the Rangers, they go all soft, and then the Sabres give 'em a royal shellacking when they play.

I don't think they need Lindy for that.

#38 Kristian

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 12:14 AM

View PostJsixspd, on 10 June 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

It would be awesome if Ruff became coach of the Rangers,  they go all soft, and then the Sabres give 'em a royal shellacking when they play.

I'd much rather see them running around like headless chickens, 5 guys below the circles.

#39 That Aud Smell

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:15 AM

View Postdrnkirishone, on 10 June 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

that would depend on the langauge of the contract i would guess. The ole moved to a advisory position goes as far back as i can remember (20-30 years).

true, that. i guess each situation is its own animal -- there is no one-size-fits-all scenario.

View PostIKnowPhysics, on 10 June 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Best Tyler Ennis avatar ever.

Out. Standing.

Attached File  tylerenniscropped.png   66.35K   5 downloads

(Don't forget to crop out half the face in order to confound Google's image searching capability.)

(Btw, if you search that avatar in Google for "visually similar images"*** you get a truly, truly bizarre collection -- predominated by close-ups of eczema and other skin afflictions as well as lots of clinical-style shots of nude torsos (male and female)).

View PostGhost of Dwight Drane, on 10 June 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

I was thinking it was from the cover of an Emerson Lake and Palmer album.........

Here it is....

Posted Image

Also a very strong offering.

*** Click if you dare.

https://www.google.c...iw=1152&bih=639

Edited by That Aud Smell, 11 June 2013 - 10:17 AM.


#40 Spndnchz

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:41 AM

awkward