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#1 PotentPowerPlay22

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:31 AM

Message to Darcy Regier:

The last two games against the San Jose Sharks the Los Angeles KIngs has a total of 104 hits!

In two freaking games - 104 hits!!!

The Sabres probably would take two to three months to get that many hits.

If you want to build a winner Darcy this team needs to get a LOT tougher and quickly.

#2 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:02 AM

Chicago and Detroit were 29th and 30th in the league in hits during the regular season. Just saying...............

#3 thesportsbuff

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:33 AM

View PostJJFIVEOH, on 26 May 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

Chicago and Detroit were 29th and 30th in the league in hits during the regular season. Just saying...............

The way Detroit is playing, I would say they and Pittsburgh are the most talented teams left in the playoffs (assuming Chicago loses, then they replace Detroit). I bet LA and Boston meet in the finals. Seems like grit/size always outways pure skill in the playoffs... Penguins have more skill but if Boston roughs them up, it's gonna be a loong series.

#4 Kristian

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:41 AM

View PostPotentPowerPlay22, on 26 May 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Message to Darcy Regier:

The last two games against the San Jose Sharks the Los Angeles KIngs has a total of 104 hits!

In two freaking games - 104 hits!!!

The Sabres probably would take two to three months to get that many hits.

If you want to build a winner Darcy this team needs to get a LOT tougher and quickly.

Hitting is not what's wrong with this team, it's that they're not "tough" enough.

Toughness is a lot of things, it's hitting, it's taking a hit to make a play, it's fighting through a check, it's wanting it more, and even playing borderline dirty at times.

The Sabres have hit a lot this season, but are still lacking in every other aspect of toughness, unfortunately.

#5 OverPowerYou

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

#6 Kristian

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

View PostOverPowerYou, on 26 May 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

And the Sabres were never that talented to begin with.

It's not like Roy or Pominville were the second coming of Gretzky, and Stafford is certainly no Cam Neely, or even a John LeClair.

Add to this some bad habits, and you have the Buffalo Sabres - On the outside looking in, or 1st round goners.

#7 d4rksabre

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

The biggest problem with the Sabres has been expecting players to play beyond their means and outside their talents. You have to put guys in the roles they fit and ask nothing more than for them to play their part. Darcy and Lindy built a team with zero regard for this concept.

#8 thanes16

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

View PostPotentPowerPlay22, on 26 May 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Message to Darcy Regier:

The last two games against the San Jose Sharks the Los Angeles KIngs has a total of 104 hits!

In two freaking games - 104 hits!!!

The Sabres probably would take two to three months to get that many hits.

If you want to build a winner Darcy this team needs to get a LOT tougher and quickly.

"But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

Rocky Balboa

Edited by thanes16, 26 May 2013 - 09:08 AM.


#9 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 26 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Sabres has been expecting players to play beyond their means and outside their talents. You have to put guys in the roles they fit and ask nothing more than for them to play their part. Darcy and Lindy built a team with zero regard for this concept.

100% agreed. It's easy to look lazy when you're being asked to play in spots you don't belong.

#10 tom webster

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostPotentPowerPlay22, on 26 May 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Message to Darcy Regier:

The last two games against the San Jose Sharks the Los Angeles KIngs has a total of 104 hits!

In two freaking games - 104 hits!!!

The Sabres probably would take two to three months to get that many hits.

If you want to build a winner Darcy this team needs to get a LOT tougher and quickly.

Buffalo was 19th in hits and 11th in blocked shots. Since they averaged over 25 hits per game I think that means only 4 games to get to the 104. LA averaged around 35 hits per game to finish 2nd to Toronto.
The 6 remaining teams finished 2, 9, 10, 22, 29 and 30th in hits.
In blocked shots, the 2nd most over hyped stat the remaining 6 teams finished 2, 10, 21, 22, 28 and 30th(LA)

#11 Kristian

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:10 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 26 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Sabres has been expecting players to play beyond their means and outside their talents. You have to put guys in the roles they fit and ask nothing more than for them to play their part. Darcy and Lindy built a team with zero regard for this concept.

Agree 100%.

#12 bunomatic

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 26 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Sabres has been expecting players to play beyond their means and outside their talents. You have to put guys in the roles they fit and ask nothing more than for them to play their part. Darcy and Lindy built a team with zero regard for this concept.

This. Good observation.

View Posttom webster, on 26 May 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Buffalo was 19th in hits and 11th in blocked shots. Since they averaged over 25 hits per game I think that means only 4 games to get to the 104. LA averaged around 35 hits per game to finish 2nd to Toronto.
The 6 remaining teams finished 2, 9, 10, 22, 29 and 30th in hits.
In blocked shots, the 2nd most over hyped stat the remaining 6 teams finished 2, 10, 21, 22, 28 and 30th(LA)

  In a war of attrition which the playoffs are the Sabres wouldn't have the guns to outlast anyone but we'll never know because they never seem to get there with Regier in charge. Its pretty easy to surmise based on regular season stats that this would be the case. In the playoffs everythings ramped up.

#13 ThirtyEight

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:49 AM

View Postd4rksabre, on 26 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Sabres has been expecting players to play beyond their means and outside their talents. You have to put guys in the roles they fit and ask nothing more than for them to play their part. Darcy and Lindy built a team with zero regard for this concept.

I agree. But I think the players are also partly to blame. Stafford is/should be a top 6 - he has proved he can play at that level in the past. Foligno has proved he can use his body to get through defence but would try and dangle 90% of the time. Myers has proved he can skate the puck into the zone and use his size to shut the opposition down.

#14 inkman

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:03 AM

View PostPotentPowerPlay22, on 26 May 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Message to Darcy Regier:

The last two games against the San Jose Sharks the Los Angeles KIngs has a total of 104 hits!

In two freaking games - 104 hits!!!

The Sabres probably would take two to three months to get that many hits.

If you want to build a winner Darcy this team needs to get a LOT tougher and quickly.
They also need 5-10 players with actual NHL talent.

#15 JJFIVEOH

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:06 PM

View Postthesportsbuff, on 26 May 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

The way Detroit is playing, I would say they and Pittsburgh are the most talented teams left in the playoffs (assuming Chicago loses, then they replace Detroit). I bet LA and Boston meet in the finals. Seems like grit/size always outways pure skill in the playoffs... Penguins have more skill but if Boston roughs them up, it's gonna be a loong series.

Like Philly did to them last year.

View Postd4rksabre, on 26 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Sabres has been expecting players to play beyond their means and outside their talents. You have to put guys in the roles they fit and ask nothing more than for them to play their part. Darcy and Lindy built a team with zero regard for this concept.

I noticed a hint of Rolston letting the guys play their roles towards the end of the season instaed of asking them to do things they aren't made to do.

#16 d4rksabre

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 01:13 PM

View PostThirtyEight, on 26 May 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:



I agree. But I think the players are also partly to blame. Stafford is/should be a top 6 - he has proved he can play at that level in the past. Foligno has proved he can use his body to get through defence but would try and dangle 90% of the time. Myers has proved he can skate the puck into the zone and use his size to shut the opposition down.

I disagree. They've all shown capability, but not consistently enough to be declared "proven". And this is where the problem lies. Darcy is very quick to label these guys into roles they don't really fit.  Drew Stafford is not a top six forward. Neither is Foligno. And Myers is not a shut down d man.

#17 PotentPowerPlay22

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostKristian, on 26 May 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Hitting is not what's wrong with this team, it's that they're not "tough" enough.

Toughness is a lot of things, it's hitting, it's taking a hit to make a play, it's fighting through a check, it's wanting it more, and even playing borderline dirty at times.

The Sabres have hit a lot this season, but are still lacking in every other aspect of toughness, unfortunately.

The Sabres have 4 players (Ott,Weber,Foligno and Kaleta) who accounted for about 50 % of all hits. The Kings, as a team, work together and almost all of them get involved. The Sabres are still way too soft as a team. This is my point when referencing the Kings hit statistics.

Detroit and Pittsburgh have better skilled players, but they are tougher too. Players like Datsyuk and Crosby don't play meekly like too many of the Sabres.

In the upcoming draft I hope the Sabres draft some players who are not afraid to play hard. This current team needs an infusion of talent and toughness.

#18 ThirtyEight

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:18 PM

View Postd4rksabre, on 26 May 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

I disagree. They've all shown capability, but not consistently enough to be declared "proven". And this is where the problem lies. Darcy is very quick to label these guys into roles they don't really fit.  Drew Stafford is not a top six forward. Neither is Foligno. And Myers is not a shut down d man.

Foligno isn't a top 6 forward but tries to play like one. Stafford is a top 6 forward (he has had back to back 50 point seasons for this year and has had 5/7 seasons where he has played around the 0.63ppg mark- that is a top 6) but tries to not play like one

Myers is not a shut down d-man. But he has shown in the past that he can shut down the other teams top players.

Stafford was on track for 32 points this year, that is his lowest since his rookie year when he put up 27 points (in 41 games). DR should not have foreseen that.
Foligno played 30 games this season in a bottom 6 role and still tried to dangle - there is just no excuse for it. I think he will be s frustrating player for a few years until he accepts his role and stops trying be able to do everything on the ice
Myers...well who knows about this basket case. I don't buy the narrative that he has been regressing every year, but he was definitely awful this year. I'm hoping it was because of the surprise start and so he was always playing catch-up in terms of conditioning and focus on the ice

#19 DeLuca1967

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostPotentPowerPlay22, on 26 May 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

The Sabres have 4 players (Ott,Weber,Foligno and Kaleta) who accounted for about 50 % of all hits. The Kings, as a team, work together and almost all of them get involved. The Sabres are still way too soft as a team. This is my point when referencing the Kings hit statistics.

Detroit and Pittsburgh have better skilled players, but they are tougher too. Players like Datsyuk and Crosby don't play meekly like too many of the Sabres.

In the upcoming draft I hope the Sabres draft some players who are not afraid to play hard. This current team needs an infusion of talent and toughness.
A better way to describe it is "talent with toughness."

Dustin Brown should be the blueprint the Sabres are using when putting together their roster. Here is actual top six forward, 25 goal 55 point, team Captain and one of the biggest hitters in the game.  The closest thing the Sabres have to Dustin Brown is Steve Ott. Problem is that Steve Ott isn't a "top six" forward. Ott is a 12 goal 35 points third line Center. Ott is more of a Jarret Stoll than a Dustin Brown. Which is splitting hairs I guess since I would love to have all three players in a Sabres uniform.

#20 LGR4GM

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:39 AM

View PostKristian, on 26 May 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Hitting is not what's wrong with this team, it's that they're not "tough" enough.

Toughness is a lot of things, it's hitting, it's taking a hit to make a play, it's fighting through a check, it's wanting it more, and even playing borderline dirty at times.

The Sabres have hit a lot this season, but are still lacking in every other aspect of toughness, unfortunately.
I think when we say hitting and toughness we really mean tenacity and battle

#21 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:53 AM

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

A better way to describe it is "talent with toughness."

Dustin Brown should be the blueprint the Sabres are using when putting together their roster. Here is actual top six forward, 25 goal 55 point, team Captain and one of the biggest hitters in the game.  The closest thing the Sabres have to Dustin Brown is Steve Ott. Problem is that Steve Ott isn't a "top six" forward. Ott is a 12 goal 35 points third line Center. Ott is more of a Jarret Stoll than a Dustin Brown. Which is splitting hairs I guess since I would love to have all three players in a Sabres uniform.

Ott is a winger ;)

#22 weave

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:57 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 27 May 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Ott is a winger ;)

On a team with 3 actual centers anyway.  :flirt:

#23 Lorenzo Von Matterhorn

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

View PostKristian, on 26 May 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Hitting is not what's wrong with this team, it's that they're not "tough" enough.

Toughness is a lot of things, it's hitting, it's taking a hit to make a play, it's fighting through a check, it's wanting it more, and even playing borderline dirty at times.

The Sabres have hit a lot this season, but are still lacking in every other aspect of toughness, unfortunately.

This this this, too many guys on this team just don't want it enough for some reason, Foligno came up and showed that tenacity at the end of the 2012 season when he was called up for good, but for some reason that effort just disappeared this year

#24 DeLuca1967

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostTrueBluePhD, on 27 May 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Ott is a winger ;)
Didn't someone make the point of the Sabres misusing players? Ott was 12th in the league in face-off percentage at 55.7% on 535 attempts. If this team turns it around, it will be with Steve Ott as the third line center which is where he needs to be to be most effective. Off the charts physical, solid face-off numbers and modest offensive production. The blue print for a third line center.

#25 d4rksabre

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:


Didn't someone make the point of the Sabres misusing players? Ott was 12th in the league in face-off percentage at 55.7% on 535 attempts. If this team turns it around, it will be with Steve Ott as the third line center which is where he needs to be to be most effective. Off the charts physical, solid face-off numbers and modest offensive production. The blue print for a third line center.

Sure but he's not a playmaker, even by third line standards. Who actually centers that line?

#26 DeLuca1967

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostLorenzo Von Matterhorn, on 27 May 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

This this this, too many guys on this team just don't want it enough for some reason, Foligno came up and showed that tenacity at the end of the 2012 season when he was called up for good, but for some reason that effort just disappeared this year
I think the issue with Foligno is that he was the only guy doing it, he may have had a lack of confidence that his teammates had his back. If Kaleta can stay healthy, Ott steps into the role as a the team leader and additions are made to the roster with players who have that toughness engrained into their personality, replacing those players who skate scared (Darcy's words), ideally the end result is players like Foligno, McNabb and Weber feeling comfortable enough to let their natural aggression take over.

View Postd4rksabre, on 27 May 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Sure but he's not a playmaker, even by third line standards. Who actually centers that line?
Ott is not void of offensive talent, he has enough, added to what he brings to the rink every night be effective anchoring a third line. I don't need a 50-60 point player in that position, not when I can get 35-40 points and 250 hits and 55%+ face-off percentage.

The priorities for this team are/should be character, grit and toughness.

#27 ThirtyEight

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:13 AM

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I think the issue with Foligno is that he was the only guy doing it, he may have had a lack of confidence that his teammates had his back. If Kaleta can stay healthy, Ott steps into the role as a the team leader and additions are made to the roster with players who have that toughness engrained into their personality, replacing those players who skate scared (Darcy's words), ideally the end result is players like Foligno, McNabb and Weber feeling comfortable enough to let their natural aggression take over.

Ott is not void of offensive talent, he has enough, added to what he brings to the rink every night be effective anchoring a third line. I don't need a 50-60 point player in that position, not when I can get 35-40 points and 250 hits and 55%+ face-off percentage.

The priorities for this team are/should be character, grit and toughness.

I think Ott prefers playing wing. He prefers getting into the corners at both ends of the rink and grinding along the wall more than playing in the centre of the ice. Ideally you'd have him on the third line with him taking the draws then moving to wing and let Darren Helm take over.

Man I so want Helm here. I'd give up the 16th pick for him

#28 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:20 AM

View Postweave, on 27 May 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

On a team with 3 actual centers anyway.  :flirt:

It's sad because it's true :(

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Didn't someone make the point of the Sabres misusing players? Ott was 12th in the league in face-off percentage at 55.7% on 535 attempts. If this team turns it around, it will be with Steve Ott as the third line center which is where he needs to be to be most effective. Off the charts physical, solid face-off numbers and modest offensive production. The blue print for a third line center.

Taking faceoffs is not the same thing as positionally playing center after the puck is dropped.

Edited by TrueBluePhD, 27 May 2013 - 11:20 AM.


#29 Kristian

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:40 AM

View PostPotentPowerPlay22, on 26 May 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

The Sabres have 4 players (Ott,Weber,Foligno and Kaleta) who accounted for about 50 % of all hits. The Kings, as a team, work together and almost all of them get involved. The Sabres are still way too soft as a team. This is my point when referencing the Kings hit statistics.

Detroit and Pittsburgh have better skilled players, but they are tougher too. Players like Datsyuk and Crosby don't play meekly like too many of the Sabres.


In the upcoming draft I hope the Sabres draft some players who are not afraid to play hard. This current team needs an infusion of talent and toughness.

I don't see how my post said anything differently?

View Postd4rksabre, on 27 May 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Sure but he's not a playmaker, even by third line standards. Who actually centers that line?

Then how about turning the 3rd line into a true shutdown line?

We haven't had a shutdown line since Curtis Brown was here, and he was crap at it, so in truth we haven't had one since Peca played here.

Rolling 3 "scoring" lines hasn't worked at all since the "no-touch" years.

Edited by Kristian, 27 May 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#30 carpandean

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:05 PM

As others have alluded to, Ott is a winger who discovered along the way that he's really good on draws.  He gives you a great option when the center of his line is weak or gets thrown out.  The latter is very useful for critical draws, where having two players capable of taking draws on the ice is a good idea.

#31 Lorenzo Von Matterhorn

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:18 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Didn't someone make the point of the Sabres misusing players? Ott was 12th in the league in face-off percentage at 55.7% on 535 attempts. If this team turns it around, it will be with Steve Ott as the third line center which is where he needs to be to be most effective. Off the charts physical, solid face-off numbers and modest offensive production. The blue print for a third line center.
Ott is one of best at face offs but he's not a true center, he's a wing who can take face offs. He would come in and take the draws and shift back to wing once play starter for the most part and that is the role for him.

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I think the issue with Foligno is that he was the only guy doing it, he may have had a lack of confidence that his teammates had his back. If Kaleta can stay healthy, Ott steps into the role as a the team leader and additions are made to the roster with players who have that toughness engrained into their personality, replacing those players who skate scared (Darcy's words), ideally the end result is players like Foligno, McNabb and Weber feeling comfortable enough to let their natural aggression take over.

Ott is not void of offensive talent, he has enough, added to what he brings to the rink every night be effective anchoring a third line. I don't need a 50-60 point player in that position, not when I can get 35-40 points and 250 hits and 55%+ face-off percentage.

The priorities for this team are/should be character, grit and toughness.
I guess I figured since we acquired Ott and Scott during the offseason that Foligno would feel more comfortable playing that way because the year before when he was playing like that he didn't have those guys, I don't know maybe he felt since we had guys like Ott and Scott that he needed to try and play as a more skilled player? Not sure but I want him playing like he did when we called him up

#32 DeLuca1967

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

With centers so hard to come by, it seems foolish to relegate Ott to the wing. He can play Center, The Sabres even list him as a center. Center is a position of great need, by playing Ott on the wing the Sabres would be needlessly creating a hole on their roster.

View PostKristian, on 27 May 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I don't see how my post said anything differently?



Then how about turning the 3rd line into a true shutdown line?

We haven't had a shutdown line since Curtis Brown was here, and he was crap at it, so in truth we haven't had one since Peca played here.

Rolling 3 "scoring" lines hasn't worked at all since the "no-touch" years.
Put Foligno on one wing and Stafford (he's going to be here like it or not) on the other. Let them bang around the other teams top lines. Force other coaches to play keep away.

View PostLorenzo Von Matterhorn, on 27 May 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ott is one of best at face offs but he's not a true center, he's a wing who can take face offs. He would come in and take the draws and shift back to wing once play starter for the most part and that is the role for him.


I guess I figured since we acquired Ott and Scott during the offseason that Foligno would feel more comfortable playing that way because the year before when he was playing like that he didn't have those guys, I don't know maybe he felt since we had guys like Ott and Scott that he needed to try and play as a more skilled player? Not sure but I want him playing like he did when we called him up
Scott, IMO, is a complete non-factor.

As I said above, play Foligno with Ott. Cultivating Foligno's physical should be on the Sabres priority list. They have a young bull in Foligno who needs to be taught how to use to his 6' 3" 225 lb frame to the Sabres advantage.

#33 Lorenzo Von Matterhorn

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 05:32 PM

View Postdeluca67, on 27 May 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

With centers so hard to come by, it seems foolish to relegate Ott to the wing. He can play Center, The Sabres even list him as a center. Center is a position of great need, by playing Ott on the wing the Sabres would be needlessly creating a hole on their roster.

Put Foligno on one wing and Stafford (he's going to be here like it or not) on the other. Let them bang around the other teams top lines. Force other coaches to play keep away.

Scott, IMO, is a complete non-factor.

As I said above, play Foligno with Ott. Cultivating Foligno's physical should be on the Sabres priority list. They have a young bull in Foligno who needs to be taught how to use to his 6' 3" 225 lb frame to the Sabres advantage.
Well I thought the argument was that Foligno resorted from his intense, aggressive game from 2012 year because he felt like he wasn't backed up by his teammates, but by that argument wouldn't make sense because we acquired guys will stand up for the teammates as we saw that much more this year.

I guess you could play Ott at center I just don't think he is a natural center, like for example when he would play with Ennis, Otter would take the draws but then they'd switch back during play so Ott would be on the wing, but I don't think Ennis should be a center either that's why I don't see a problem with playing him there because we don't really have true centers on this team right now