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[OT] Derek Boogaard and the assumption of risk


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#1 weave

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

http://www.nytimes.c...death.html?_r=1&

Quote

The family of Derek Boogaard has filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against the National Hockey League.
It contends that the N.H.L. is responsible for the physical trauma and brain damage that Boogaard sustained during six seasons as one of the league’s top enforcers, and for the addiction to prescription painkillers that marked his final two years.

I think we are going to see some serious changes in the NHL now.

#2 wjag

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

View Postweave, on 13 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

http://www.nytimes.c...death.html?_r=1&



I think we are going to see some serious changes in the NHL now.

A successful CTE suit would reverberate in the NFL too.

Edited by wjag, 13 May 2013 - 02:01 PM.


#3 Sabre Dance

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:58 AM

View Postweave, on 13 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

http://www.nytimes.c...death.html?_r=1&



I think we are going to see some serious changes in the NHL now.

I sincerely hope that changes will be made, but I fear they won't. The NHL is the only major sports league that allows fighting (and some might say even condones it). You have hockey "pundits" like Don Cherry and Mike Milbury saying that fighting belongs in the game because fans like it. Others say you need to keep it in the game as a way for the players to "police" the game. The lawsuit would need to be successful and the award substantial before the NHL would even consider banning fights (or even trying to minimize them).
We've come a long way since the "Broad Street Bullies" days when both teams would leave the bench to participate in a "rumble" on the ice. The changes took place slowly over a period of years. That's likely what will happen now. Instead of getting a suspension upon getting a third fighting major in one game, perhaps it will be changed to a second. As long as the league makes an effort to reduce fighting (or at least appears to), that may appease.  Who knows?  Unfortunately, there will probably be another Boogaard. I hope not, but.....

#4 TrueBluePhD

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:22 PM

View Postweave, on 13 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

http://www.nytimes.c...death.html?_r=1&

I think we are going to see some serious changes in the NHL now.

I hope you're right, but I doubt we see any serious changes until these lawsuits become more widespread.  The NFL didn't start making any major changes until there were hundreds (which has now grown to thousands, I believe) of lawsuits.

#5 26CornerBlitz

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:26 PM

I wonder will this finally spur the NHL to seriously consider the elimination of fighting and the impact of player head trauma?

#6 Kristian

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:10 PM

View Post26CornerBlitz, on 13 May 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I wonder will this finally spur the NHL to seriously consider the elimination of fighting and the impact of player head trauma?

Will be interesting to see if it'll also lead them to crack down on headshots.

Eric Lindros, Brett Lindros, Pat LaFontaine, Keith Primeau, Adam Deadmarsh...

I know these guys are still alive, but still.

Headshots, fists or no fists, usually means trouble down the stretch.

Edited by Kristian, 13 May 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#7 Neuvirths Glove

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:48 PM

My prediction is that the NHL will win the lawsuit and nothing will change.

#8 shrader

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:22 PM

View PostDoohickie, on 13 May 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

My prediction is that the NHL will win the lawsuit and nothing will change.

Someone needs to die before these things will change.  I hope that statement doesn't make it sound like this is what I want to see happen, but that's pretty much where these leagues are right now.  They won't do anything until someone dies, which unfortunately is a ass-backwards approach to the whole thing.

#9 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:34 AM

View Postshrader, on 13 May 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:



Someone needs to die before these things will change.  I hope that statement doesn't make it sound like this is what I want to see happen, but that's pretty much where these leagues are right now.  They won't do anything until someone dies, which unfortunately is a ass-backwards approach to the whole thing.

Boogaard died. At a very young age.

They will not win the suit, but his role definitely led to his death.

http://www.nytimes.c...s-to-brawl.html

#10 Glass Case Of Emotion

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:42 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 14 May 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Boogaard died. At a very young age.

They will not win the suit, but his role definitely led to his death.

http://www.nytimes.c...s-to-brawl.html

They'll settle out of court to avoid discovery. Civil suits are often more damning in victory than they would be in sending millions to his family to end the issue before it reaches trial.

#11 Kristian

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:20 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 14 May 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Boogaard died. At a very young age.

They will not win the suit, but his role definitely led to his death.

http://www.nytimes.c...s-to-brawl.html

That link is a good read.

#12 shrader

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:35 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 14 May 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Boogaard died. At a very young age.

They will not win the suit, but his role definitely led to his death.

http://www.nytimes.c...s-to-brawl.html

Him and the other two last year.  But I think you know what I mean though.  Until it happens on ice, the league will continue to ignore it as much as possible.

#13 bobis

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostDoohickie, on 13 May 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

My prediction is that the NHL will win the lawsuit and nothing will change.

Agreed. Life is all about choices, Boogard chose that career. He didn't have to and nobody forced it on him.

#14 Andrew Amerk

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:54 AM

View PostKristian, on 14 May 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:



That link is a good read.

A very good read. Ending left a little to be desired, but the perspective and insight are excellent. Even included a little John Scott in it.

Never realized how much Boogey had to go thru and do just to make it on the various levels.

#15 LTS

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

These lawsuits are all ridiculous in my opinion.  No one made the guy do anything he didn't choose to do and then once injured CONTINUED to choose to do.  Hockey players can accept that they are not going to make it on anything other than their ability to punch and walk away from the game.  If they decide they want to do it for a $1.6m salary then it's on them.

The NHL and NFL have no responsibilities when the violent contact that occurs as part of sport leads to these injuries.  They can make rules but you can't take it out of the game without seriously altering the game.  If you get hit then a head injury is bound to occur.  If you choose to fight you only increase the risk.

This article, while certainly informative about his past and what happens to hockey players of his type is certainly not relevant to the lawsuit unless someone wants the feel good story.

What was his Plan B?  Didn't have one.  That's not how you live a life.. that's how you allow life to control you.

#16 That Aud Smell

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:09 AM

the truth of the matter sits somewhere betwixt and between the poles of "the league a la big tobacco has knowingly concealed and repressed information about known risks that the players face from head injuries and has recklessly impeded rule changes designed to reduce those risks" and that of "hey, that is the life that boogard chose and he went into his role in the league with his eyes wide open (and sometimes swollen shut)."

i think that these concussion lawsuits will play a role in forcing reform in the nhl and the nfl (and mlb?); i'm just not sure whether there will be enough of it (reform).

#17 Kristian

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

View PostAndrew Amerk, on 15 May 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:

A very good read. Ending left a little to be desired, but the perspective and insight are excellent. Even included a little John Scott in it.

Never realized how much Boogey had to go thru and do just to make it on the various levels.

Makes you wonder what someone like John Scott or Rob Ray had to go through to play in this league.

I remember reading about John Kordic and Bryan Fogarty, two other unfortunates coming through the NHL.

Kordic was the enforcer who's father wanted him to be a scorer, and Fogarty just couldn't handle the limelight and attention which came with being labeled "one of the greatest talents of all time".

Fogarty basically drank himself to death, and Kordic died from a drug overdose.

#18 weave

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 15 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

the truth of the matter sits somewhere betwixt and between the poles of "the league a la big tobacco has knowingly concealed and repressed information about known risks that the players face from head injuries and has recklessly impeded rule changes designed to reduce those risks" and that of "hey, that is the life that boogard chose and he went into his role in the league with his eyes wide open (and sometimes swollen shut)."

i think that these concussion lawsuits will play a role in forcing reform in the nhl and the nfl (and mlb?); i'm just not sure whether there will be enough of it (reform).

Concussions are a game changer injury-wise.  The more we know, the more we see that returning from a concussion has inherent risks.  It doesn't heal like a knee injury.  I'm not sure how we divide up responsibility.  Surely it is on the league to do its best to evaluate those injuries and enact reasonable workplace safety rules.

What is reasonable in a physical competition though.....

#19 LTS

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostThat Aud Smell, on 15 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

the truth of the matter sits somewhere betwixt and between the poles of "the league a la big tobacco has knowingly concealed and repressed information about known risks that the players face from head injuries and has recklessly impeded rule changes designed to reduce those risks" and that of "hey, that is the life that boogard chose and he went into his role in the league with his eyes wide open (and sometimes swollen shut)."

i think that these concussion lawsuits will play a role in forcing reform in the nhl and the nfl (and mlb?); i'm just not sure whether there will be enough of it (reform).

I'm still amazed how anyone thought that inhaling smoke into your lungs was a good thing regardless of what tobacco companies knew.  As far the chemicals in cigarettes I treat that a lot like the foods today that have all kinds of things in them that people don't want to know about.

View Postweave, on 15 May 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Concussions are a game changer injury-wise.  The more we know, the more we see that returning from a concussion has inherent risks.  It doesn't heal like a knee injury.  I'm not sure how we divide up responsibility.  Surely it is on the league to do its best to evaluate those injuries and enact reasonable workplace safety rules.

What is reasonable in a physical competition though.....

I think at this point we know enough for people to make an educated decision.  We know that concussions have a long-term damaging impact to the brain and that the effects of multiple concussions are more than just cumulative and lead to potential brain damage and other health concerns.

Knowing this... each player involved in the sport needs to ask themselves whether or not it's worth it.  I'm pretty much convinced that you can't change the rules of the game any more without destroying it.  You can work towards better equipment and changes there that might reduce the chances but there is an inherent amount of risk that comes along with the job.

We are having this conversation while at the same time people compete in MMA competitions and beat the living crap out of each other.  What a grand society we live in.  The rules are there, don't hit people in the head.  But the game moves fast and it's going to happen and there's nothing you can do about it.

I think it's important to understand as much as possible. Elimination of fighting is fine, but the concussions from hitting are worse and that can't be removed.  Every step gets you closer to the All-Star game... which no one likes.